The Pitfalls of Ganondorf in Super Smash Bros 

As a lifelong Ganondorf main, I appreciate just how accurately this sums up the past two decades for me.

One of the most famous things about Dorf fights in Zelda games is the Dead Man's Volley, LITERALLY playing tennis with projectiles. Like, how could the man NOT have a reflector of some kind?

Ganondorf got gutted and done pretty dirty in this whole series... until the fan projects came around

Wild how ganon can be considered "viable for upsets" in ult despite STILL being the worst character in the game for the THIRD time in a row lol. Really is a testament to how balanced the game is overall, at least for a series like smash. I used to say little mac was the worst but that character at least gets regular representation in top 64, ganon peaked back in 2019 and never again.

The King of Evil desperately needs an overhaul to truly feel like one

the random nerfing of low tiers from game to game will always be so funny to me

I kinda wish they didn't include him in melee. If they didn't, they probably would've made him a unique character in Brawl or whatever game he would've been added in.

The worst thing that happened to Ganondorf was being included in Melee. Holding off until Brawl would have given Sakurai time and resources to design an actual Ganondorf. Instead, rushing to put him in Melee established Smash Ganondorf as a(n inferior) Captain Falcon clone, a design that shared nothing with source Ganondorf beyond the physical model. Heck, I've argued before that even if you wanted to rush a Melee appearance, Melee *Link* offered a better base than Falcon.

Ganondorf's moveset just doesn't work in Smash. They took a moveset designed for a fast character and put it on a slow character. This is why he's been consistently a low tier character. He really needs a new moveset to make him viable, unique, and represent how he is in his own series.

Ganon still sucks in ultimate. Just because they him a sword for his smash attacks doesn’t mean he’s viable.

Projectile reflect is a good idea that references the projectile volley from the Zelda games, but I'd put it under Shield+B so it doesn't take away any existing moves. Giving him a hover (and Mewtwo a hover as well) that functions like Peach and Daisy's would be a perfect representation of the character for my tastes.

The worst thing is Sakurai mains Ganondorf

"Fun" Fact: Ganondorf has literally never used the sword he was given in Ult in an actual Zelda game.

Poor Ganon, although he was a beast in casual Melee

Can you imagine if he was never added to melee. We would've had an actual good ganondorf with a moveset that represents himself and the games. Imo it would be sick as hell if we had hyrule warriors ganondorf with the 2 swords. That shit would've been hype.

I think the wizard ganon mod is really good, but I'd change side B back to the choke and put a reflector on his jab and nair

With Ganondorf it never made sense to not give him a float, yes it would be similar to Peach, but if you have a mobility option in a platform fighter use it. He should also use energy ball projectiles like he does in his OoT fight and various points of the game. I also think he should have a different victory theme in the same way Zelda herself should.

Ultimate ganondorlf is heavily similar to melee ganondorlf but with brawl special moves and a sword for smash attacks. He is actually surprisingly acceptable now. If that version was released in melee ganondorlf would be amazing.

Melee Ganon is still better than ultimate Ganon homie

I loved using heavy weights when I was younger, but always thought Ganon was a bit awkward to use. Kid me basically always knew he was an echo of Falcon, but Ganon felt different enough imo.

I HATE all of Ganons versions even Ultimate's, except the modded versions. The sword isn't even what he canonically uses in OoT in base form. He uses a trident, A TRIDENT. He only uses that sword in Beast Form and he dual wields them (which btw no character in smash dual wields a sword so he even could have been unique here if you wanted to take liberties). A lot of characters before Smash 4 had such disrespect to their origins. Ganondorf is a dark magic user, why the hell is Ganon still derivative off other characters. Even his sword attacks just look like Ikes UpSmash, FSmash, and Clouds DSmash. SideB is his most ganon like move in his moveset.

Actually, Sakurai stated that adding a unique character like Wario would have been impossible even if the clones were cut.

7:26 gonna dispute that. For about 3 of the 4 years ultimate has been out, he's been universally considered bottom 1 unviable garbage

The crazy part is, even after all these changes were given to Ganon, he's STILL considered to be the worst character in Ultimate! Speaking in hindsight, I think we would've been better off not getting Ganon until Brawl, it would've been better in the long run

I wouldn't say ultimate ganon is his best form. He's still often considered the worst character in the game. Melee ganon is probably his best iteration overall. Ult ganon is still better than brawl ganon though

One thing to note though is that even tho ganon is way better in ultimate than to his other incarnations, he is still ranked the worst in the game and debatably the only unviable character in ult.

This has to be your best editied video Honest. Your skills have come a long way

His new sword smash attacks from Ultimate are actually worse than his prior ones. His up smash, even though good, is just not as good as in Smash 4, his F smash is also slightly worse. The only Smash Attack which might be slightly better is his down smash, and that is debatable as well.

Ganondorf moveset Biggest Smash Bros Injustice for me

Really good watch, well done honest!!

I would've loved to see Wario in Melee but it's understandable why he was cut.

You're saying this as if he isn't still bottom tier in Ultimate

For me: 1st: melee Ganondorf; 2nd: smash 4 ganon; 3rd: smash ultimate Ganon; 4th and last: super smash bros brawl Ganondorf

Face a CPU lvl 8 or 9 Ganon in Melee it would seem like he was top tier 😂😂

Why can bowser be fast but ganon cant? Where did they get the stereotype that he was slow? Bro is literally an acrobat in every zelda game hes in

Ganonforf is the closest we will ever get to playing as BlackShadow in Smash.

Ganonvillage, my favourite character from the super smash bros series

"He can at least be viable in ultimate" that went well

If you ever make that video, please include stuff that Crusade, Flash 2, and HDR included.

ToTK Ganondorf can give us hope for a whole rework in a future Smash game

I think the fact you failed to mention Ganon actually got pretty good results in 4 is important because 4 Ganon wasn't complete trash for the whole lifespan of the game. He did get powercrept during DLC era notably but even after that still got really impressive solo main results from players like Vermanubis, Gungnir, Forkies, Pon, and Rickles. And that wasn't just because he was well loved in 4 era. 4 era Ganon moveset was legitimately solid in its own right. Calling Ult Ganon a character who can get upsets without acknowledging sets like Gungnir vs Earth is weird to me.

7:30 You would show the ONE time Ganon won a match and its of Nairo.

btw his recovery isn't even that bad in Melee cause he can get his jump back from down b, of course they removed this from every subsequent game lol

Bruh...Smash 4 Ganon up smash is NOT lackluster. That move made that character. He had combos out of that move and it was extremely safe while also being the strongest in the game. Not to mention +6 on shield. Ultimate up smash is just Relative to the cast, Ult Ganon is actually worse than he was in 4. Have you not seen any tier lists for Ultimate, all of which place him dead last? Sure they sped him up, but every character was sped up. Unlike 4 he never received any meaningful buffs and personally I feel like he was nerfed from 4. Ganon did not need more slow attacks. The sword attacks they gave him feel half-assed (probably ripped directly from Ike and Cloud), they nerfed Ganoncide, and his combo game is even weaker than it was in 4.

They missed the big opportunity to make it so that his down B kept the same properties both grounded and mid-air. Not only would it help his recovery a lot but would also make sense because he is an evil sorcerer. Even though we would miss out on the spike of the current one, we still have his down air.

The truth is that Ultimate's Ganon still sucks and gets destroyed in a lot of relevant mus, most of the community and top players agreed that he is the worst character in the game and probably the only non-viable one

Finally the only fans king gets his episode lol loved the vid good work ❤.

Overall I think this is a nice video, but you neglected to mention his animation overhaul coming into Ultimate that made him MUCH more menacing to even stand beside & also made his physique more toned yet retaining his muscles. His dair animation is especially wonderful to look at during the hit stop upon connect as opposed to his shitty, joke of a dair animation from Brawl/Smash 4, lol. But yah, the biggest nerf to Ganon imo was removing his movement & any form of closing the gap with said movement. I know it was a universal change to the newer games, but removing Ganon's ability to Wave Dash, Ledge Cancel & L Cancel crippled him so much and really not enough people talk about those things that ended up hurting him more than most of his other changes. I'd say the best thing the devs actually did for the character was giving him Flame Choke - the single most BEST move out of the entirety of his arsenal that has the ability to not only cause devastating sequences that lead into stock deletions, but also the mentally damaging aspect attached to it that can absolutely mind fuck your opponent for the remainder of the match. It's also the only move he has that harbors so much potential to kill not in itself, but the *mix ups* that come after in which you can destroy someone in a myriad of ways IF you can land the hard read. As a Ganon main for 20 years who has engaged in countless discussions regarding reworking the character(PM did the best job with his rework and is thusly the best Ganon so far generally speaking), I just wish he had his Melee jab in Ultimate. That alone would be such an amazing get-off-me tool to help combat quick characters as well as confront one of his biggest weaknesses: pressure.

his usmash in 4 is literally insane compared to ultimate lmao

hey a bit ago i said you inspired me to try and make a project m mod video in the style of yours (but much worse as im not a video person) but im having issues mostly with how do you do your research. while i can seem to find some stuff most of my info from attempting to find documentation has either left not a lot of detail or comes from your vids lol. im stuggling to put together i nice timeline for the project i want and could use help/advice if you were ever able

Please make a follow up video discussing his modded versions

Bowser gets a rehaul and has a much better running speed. Why is it Ganon doesn't get reworked? Give the Falcon Clone to some other FZero character The man with magic has no reflector or projectiles. Its laughable

What really sucks is that even though Ganondorf got some buffs in Ultimate, they still nerfed things like Ganoncide which to me was a dumb nerf and even in the end, with all the dlc and Ultimate no longer getting balance updates, Ganondorf was the bottom tier, yet again…

Everybody agrees about the worst character in ultimate: ganondorf.

You plan on covering rivals 2 when it comes out?

Wario in melee would have been so fucking cool. I wonder what the meta would be today if he was in instead of Ganon

Bro said Ganon can fist his opponents

Melee Ganon is for sure the best version of Ganon though when it comes to viability. Ult Ganon is so bad dude.

wish u talked more about sm4sh ganon upsmash

Smash Remix somehow made the best Ganon in Smash Imagine a slightly slower Falcon with stronger moves overall and full on armor on Neutral B, WITH Smash 64’s hitstun physics It was the most refreshing Ganon I’ve played in years

Should've been Black Shadow tbh.

He's even bad in smash flash 2 💀

Tbh ultimate Ganondorf, is now a clone of cloud and Ike the recent release of tears or kingdom could give an idea for a new version Ganondorf for future smash bros which idk if it’ll happen or not either way ultimate Ganondorf is still good I hope they keep some of his move set like his iconic doryiah and warlock punch

It would have been better they didn't add Ganondorf in Melee and add him in Brawl so they can give him a 100% original moveset based on Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, so Ganondorf would be a well-represented character in Super Smash Bros!

I was hoping you focused on whatever happened to his eyes

Ultimate was a great glow up

I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters. My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland. Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages. If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B). Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then. Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity. The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters. I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk. Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf. Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!

0:16 it seems the Super Mario franchise now doesn't exist

You made it sound like melee didn't add any completely new characters and only added clones... Development time was short, but they still added Mewtwo, marth, g&w, peach, Bowser, climbers and Zelda/shiek.

Triforce Ganon is the best Ganondorf moveset

played ganandorf since the start of ultimate, when i was 9, im now 14.

Lore for The Pitfalls of Ganondorf in Super Smash Bros momentum 100

I will mention Ganondorf wasn't QUITE as bad as you make it sound in 4 - he was terrible, don't get me wrong, but his upsmash was legitimately in the running for one of the best upsmashes in the game due to how little endlag it had, allowing you to just randomly throw it around in neutral for basically free and possibly catch someone off-guard. It's also great in Ultimate, but it didn't go from lacklustre to amazing, it went from incredible to also incredible but in a different way.

7:25 this didn’t age very well…

I just hope for the next smash game, they don't use his Tears of the Kingdom appearance.

Hope they give him moves from the games..

4:44 I don’t think ganons the worst in Brawl even tho he’s still extremely bad in brawl because he’s still in bottom tier but I think it’s between Brawl Ivysaur or Brawl Jigglypuff

Honestly if they made two changes he’d be mid tier. One his wizard kick should go through most projectiles (boomerangs, arrows, lasers) and two after his side b you should be able to up b again. Like why do some many other characters have this but not ganon

I fixed the problem

buff ganon pls

I honestly really like Ganondorf, especially in Ultimate, and never really liked how some people reworked him. I understand why they would, but honestly, I feel like they focus way too much on his Ocarina of Time incarnation, when he has moves that call back to his Twilight Princess design. All he really needs is a few buffs, in my opinion. He doesn't need to become a floaty zoner, I would hate that, as I've mained him for a long time. Hopefully Tears of the Kingdom gives us more inspiration to work off of in some way.

While Captain Falcon is for fast and aggressive play, Ganondorf is for a slow and bait-and-switch battle style. Because of his reputation in Brawl, I have pity for him. And its shows because of nerf from Melee, where he separates the good and the bad. But tier list isn't everything as we have Brawl Ganondorf Main like Vermanubis. I see Captain Falcon as a Smash Bros icon as his moveset is based from the fighters from the Smash prototype: Dragon King: The Fighting Game. Ganondorf take this and fit himself a pure fighter for a mental-focus Fighting Game that is Smash Bros. If Ganondorf was added in Brawl, would he have the moveset based on his home series? That the main complain about his representation. He is still a clone of a dead racing game series. 3:37 His face! 3:46 Whelp. MK is like "You okay buddy?" 4:46 Ganondorf.exe has stopped working. Ganondorf face tell everything 4:57 Damn it, not again 5:03 Why you didn't talk about his Cutsom moves? 5:47 GAAHH! 6:16 Big Daddy... WHAT?! 6:48 Revenge on MK 6:50 DO-RI-YAH! 7:29 Ultimate!Ganondorf is the king of UPSET! "I don't play Ganondorf to win, it's about sending a message" A Ganondorf Main Quote

Ganondork

do brawl 2 bananas diddy kong to smash 4 hoo hah diddy kong to project m 3.0 diddy kong and how he got changed

But he's still the worst character in Ultimate. 3 times the bottom tier of the roster in a row.😅

Ganon in Brawl is arguably better than Zelda and inarguably better than Ivysaur. Not saying much.

I find it weird that Ganondorf in Smash 4 was one of if not the worst character yet I ran into a lot of people playing him

I disagree I think Ganon isn't viable in ultimate

Nintendos most well know franchise……not Mario?

Actually no ganon is not the worst character in brawl At least depending on your method I’d you decouple changing characters ivysaur is by far worse

I still think Ganon is the worst in ultimate lol

Its starting to feel like someone on the smash bros team doesnt like Zelda in general js

There's an issue though: That F-Smash is TERRIBLE. Is one of those moves you can react to and has serious blindspots. The Ganondorf to issue will not be solved via a rework if he's still lacking tools to use his power.

Aaaaaaand…he’s the worst character in Ultimate. Again. And behind Little Mac.

HDR did him good thoe

Why is it a popular opinion that Ganondorf is bad in Smash 4? Most people didn't even know how to use him. Very few people even played Ganondorf seriously in Smash 4. Unless you think having an insta suicide killing command grab, being able to live up to 130% or more depending on the hit, being a heavy character with a smaller hurtbox compared to ddd, bowser, charizard, having fast rolls, and having one of the best up smashes in the game is bad. Also smash 4 Ganon wasn't even that slow and has many strong moves. Of course if you compare Meele Ganon to smash 4 Ganon he is better. Realistically smash 4 Ganon is in the 40s bracket but that still isn't terrible. You are right though he needs a moveset more related to his character.

Oh yee yee thanks for the vid oh yee yee

Zelda is nowhere near Nintendo's most well-known franchise. Mario and Pokemon are taking that top spot.

no pity on ganon but wario shoud have been added instead the lackluster ganon who sucks in every smash game

You forgot to mention that he is still the worst character is Smash Ultimate. Sure he was buffed, but he still sucks. I sadly say this as a lifelong Ganon main.