Michael put Tom out for 2 reasons. 1 he would rather have his father's advice than Tom's. 2 Mike didn't want Tom involved in the move to Vegas because it was dangerous. Tom besides Vito was the only people Mike trusted.
Vito also told Michael you couldn't hide things from Tom..he always had a way of finding things out. Tom was right about trying to get Sonny to hold off on an all out war. Vito was still alive. And to wait until he recovered enough to do what they must do next.
Tom was not a “war consigliere” exactly because he wasn’t that sharp in regards to opportunities and all that is described in the video. That’s why he was out
It’s classic operational security. Tom is an attorney and the public face of the legal side of the family. Tom will defend Michael at the Senate hearing and avoid a government backlash.
In the book Tom was put in charge of the move to Vegas since it was on the legal side vs how the movies are Tom ran the Vegas gig until the family fully moved out to Vegas.
It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I believe Tom was removed as consigliere because he could be the face and strategist behind the legit business. They knew the war with the families was going to be bad, if Tom was associated with that in any way it would hurt the efforts to go legit. Tom indeed did not have the war-time instincts he needed, but he was a very strong business manager. Michel played to his strength.
Well ...obviously! The amount morons who are analyzing prosaic shit like godfather yet getting everything wrong is comical and shocking at the same time. Ones in a while you come across with someone who has functioning brain....refreshing
Is it possible that Michael didn't want to risk having Tom targeted as Consigliere and killed in the war against the other families? At one point, he would need someone he could totally trust for his moves after he killed all the other dons. It worked out just as Michael planned, with Tom as his emergency backup to takeover as Acting Don. He had no real doubts about Tom's wartime ability because he left his family in Tom's hands in the most dangerous situation Michael ever faced. After Tessio's and Fabrizio's betrayal, Michael knew he couldn't even completely trust Neri or Rocco. You make the keen point about observing potential enemies. Coming in as Acting Don, Tom was a complete unknown to Rocco, Neri, or anyone else in the family who might be plotting against Michael. So Tom would have the advantage over whomever the traitor might be. It was a corollary to "Keep your enemies closer." Potential traitors could not keep Tom closer because Tom was out. It was a brilliant move by Michael, keeping Tom off the board until he absolutely needed him.
Exactly. Michael was strategic thinker, and was always 3 steps ahead of "current moment". Whatever he did (or said) was with a long term vision (and in many instances it was very different than it looked at that particular moment).
Never read the books but to me you can see Michael's resentment and animosity towards Tom start to take form during the flashback scene at the end of GF2 when Michael tells everybody that he joined the Marines. Michael didn't like the fact that Tom was secretly working with Vito shaping Michael's future behind his back. Personally I think Tom was done wrong, he was a Corleone and always had the family's best interest at heart.
In the book, he puts him out and makes it official (knowing someone in the ranks is reporting to Barzini) to keep him out of the potential crossfire and because Michael believes he couldn't handle the war fighting that could break out and the necessary subterfuge to fool the other families. At the end, he became the legal rep for the casino interests. Essentially a legitimate Consigliere. But in the book Michael pulled off legitimizing the family business. Sort of.
This question was answered by Michael when he said “You’re not a war-time consiglieri Tom!” He clearly says he doesn’t need a formal embassador, he needs blood thirsty soldiers for what he’s about to do
Michael is his own Consigliere. Before becoming Don, he enlisted in the military despite Don Vito and Tom’s plans for him; he suggested and executed the Sollozo and McCluskey murders while everyone was scrambling for a response and were initially amused at the suggestion; and in Don Vito’s tenure as Consigliere he never told Michael what to do, but how to identify his enemies. Michael trusts his judgment above all others, he knew what to do (whether right or wrong) and didn’t want dissenting views, only how to get it done, while (the doubting Thomas) Tom’s counsel consisted of casting doubt on how it could be done and/or questioning his motive. The move had nothing to do with Michael trusting Tom, he entrusted Tom with his family’s safety at their most perilous moment. Michael is alright being the only one at the table.
Tom was very able and smart as Vito himself said. Maybe he didn't want to string them along because luka got killed and he didn't want to end up that way.
As an adopted non-Italian, Tom was never totally in with Vito's sons. Besides that, Tom balked at killing unless it was unavoidable, and Michael didn't. Michael claimed his actions weren't personal, but he was very much about revenge.
None of this crap was ever business.. it's always personal.. it's why u don't mix business with pleasure or family..ever... because most of what people say is personal..that's the biggest BS excuse ever: this is business.. nahh, sometimes if not all the time it's personal
Fredo was a Push-Over He could easily be Swayed 🗣 to one side I don’t think 💭 Killing Him👈 was right Cause Micheal lives to regret his decision in the 3rd Act-Movie 📽🎥,Banishing Him would have made more sense your not outright killing him however you can’t take someone back in who has shown Betrayal Once,(Trust is Destroyed), sorta what He had planned for Carlo,(Take a Plane ✈️ To get lost),All Just a set-up to lower his guard to kill Carlo, That’s what should have happened to Fredo to get lost!,You can’t just expect to play a Part whether unknown or not in Attempting to Killing the Don than ask for forgiveness than all be Smoothed over don’t work like that it’s a Matter of life or death 💀.
There is a great line in the book that was unfortunately not in the movie. Michael said, “Tom, don't let anybody kid you. It's all personal, every bit of business. Every piece of shit every man has to eat every day of his life is personal. They call it business. OK. But it's personal as hell. You know where I learned that from? The Don. My old man. The Godfather. If a bolt of lightning hit a friend of his the old man would take it personal. He took my going into the Marines personal. That's what makes him great. The Great Don. He takes everything personal Like God. He knows every feather that falls from the tail of a sparrow or however the hell it goes? Right? And you know something? Accidents don't happen to people who take accidents as a personal insult.”
The role of a wartime Consigliere is very different than in peacetime. Tom was a businessman primarily, which makes for a great peacetime counsel. But in wartime, you need a General. The focus is totally different.
Tom's loyalty to the Corleone family is unmatched but as a strategist he failed to see what harm was coming to the Corleones, which is the core of the consigliere job.
Tom never foresaw the most obvious tactical manovre of the Corleone's enemies ...to kill Sonny who was acting boss. Even the most dim witted Sicilian (Fredo for instance ) would have seen this coming.
Surely the ‘core’ of his role was to provide legal counsel and make deals with important people. I am not sure it was ever his job to oversee relations with other mafia bosses.
@@niallg3551 The consigliere's job is to give advice in all aspects including relations with other bosses. Tom advised Vito in regards to Sollozzo's drug offer and the consiglieri's advise their bosses into the right tactical manouvre when dealing with rival families. When Vito retired he became Michael's consiglieri just before he died. Tom was removed from this post because he hadn't forseen Sonny's murder which should have been plain obvious.
@@niallg3551 But Tom was also giving non legal advice as in the time he was advising the Don to be in the narcotics business to get more money and more power before other families do and in several other occasions.
@@hughphil Which he figured would be needed to retain the political protection . Good advice it was too, if they had agreed to Solozzo’s deal none of the rest would have happened.
I've always wondered if Tom was aware of Michaels plan to kill Fredo. He knew MIchael and Fredo had become estranged from each other (it's revealed at their mothers funeral) but did he really think Michael would take such extreme measures.
Oh, he def 100% knew!! Unfortunately, he also knew he had no right chiming in to Michael as well as the fact that Fredo had become a liability. Almost like Lenny from mice and men. Very loved, but a big damger to himself and the family.
Great video! As to the fact that Michael ultimately failed as Don becasue of his character - well, film Michael is a more antipathetic character than book Michael. Also Film Vito is a more sympathetic character than his book version. They are much more similar to each other in the book than they are in the film.
@@gregwatson8219 Well, in the films Michael was respected out of fear. Michael transitions to the bad guy, in 2nd part he is a bad guy. Vito is respected out of devotion. He is portrayed as sure, a criminal but ultimately a good guy. And I understand why they did that. It works really well on the screen. In the film Michael dies alone because of his character. Book Michael would not die alone. He would die like Vito, surrounded by his family. Also book Kay understands much better what Michael actually does and finally she accepts it becasue book Michael has redeeming qualities. Film Michael does not have any. There is a frame in the book - in one of the earlier sequences Kay does not understand why Vito's wife constantly goes to the chapel and prays for her husband. At the end of the book Kay does the same.
very possible. To say it another way, Mike always talked about going "complete legitimate". Maybe he want to keep any stink off of Tom, if possible, to use him legitimately later.
i also think michael blames tom for the abortion. we know kay can't leave the compound, so she needed help, and michael figured she could only get off the complounf with tom's help
To say Michael wasn’t able to find replacements for the key men Vito had around him, besides an enforcer in Al Neri, and he decided to just do everything himself, is an interesting segway to the 3rd movie, because in Vincent Mancini he finally has that key partner but too late and with massive compromise
1:25 - Just look at this scene, I don't like to compare but sometimes it's inevitable. Robert DeNiro is a great actor but Al Pacino's portrayal of a Mafioso as Michael Corleone destroys any depiction of a mafioso that DeNiro ever portrayed
I think he got so much into the character that it changed his life forever, the weight of the Corleone s family on his shoulder changed him even physically
The way I see it, cutting Tom out might not have been a good family decision, as it made Tom feel slighted. On the other hand, it was a good business and strategic decision because the more Tom was not directly involved, the better he could serve as the family lawyer. That was an important job in its own right. Michael might not have been as warm to Tom as he should have been, but he did respect Tom for his intelligence and service to the family, as seen by Michael making him acting Don in GF2.
Tom and Sonny were definitely closer, even closer than Sonny and Michael. He did love and respect him though. You can see genuine affection between he and Michael at least twice during the movie(When they hug) and in the book he feels proud of Tom but Michael will use people even if he loves them. He's rapidly losing his humanity in G2. He's becoming paranoid, selfish and cruel. He does though trust Tom to look after his wife and children so there's still respect there but he also treats him like a dog because nothing matters more to Michael than his goals.
Tom was a good peacetime consiglieri, but not a good wartime consiglieri. Both Sonny and Michael say this in the first movie, and the book explains why. Tom both failed to anticipate Solozzo's move against the Corleones and failed to realize ahead of Sonny's death (even though the other families had mysteriously stopped their retaliatory attacks on Corleone operations) that the other families were planning something big. On the other hand, Vito would've been well-served to take Tom's advice about giving Carlo an important role (so that he doesn't feel left out) and accepting Solozzo's initial offer.
@eric Tom actually advised Vito to take the Solozzo deal believing that the narcotics business would future proof the Corleones empire. It was Sonny who interjected his father in the meeting with Solozzo that revealed the split opinion in the family. Secondly, Sonny’s death was a result of his temper. When he found that Connie was beaten for a second time he acted to quickly and on pure emotion. Vito never involved himself with Connies personal affairs, and refused her help when she pleaded to him. Sonny even realised his father would not be happy with him as he drove to his own ambush. As Vito said himself Tom was not a bad Consigliere, Sonny was a bad Don.
@@sampunch9804 That's what I said -- Tom advised Vito to take the deal, and Vito should've listened to Tom. Regarding Sonny, the book spells out why Tom was out of his depth during the war. He should've known the other families were planning a major attack after they stopped retaliating against the Coreleones' operations (in response to Sonny's raids on the operations of the other families), but failed to see it coming.
@@bonglee2388 But Vito still agreed to support the drug trade down the road -- after he'd been nearly assassinated and Sonny and Luca Brasi had been killed. Would've saved himself a lot of trouble if he just worked with Solozzo, and he could've negotiated from a position of strength.
@@ej11481 Eric dealing in the powders is what made the cosa nostra vulnerable & the Feds devastated them in the years to come. Soldiers caught doing drugs could be turned into informants to save their own skin. Don Vito was smart. Very very smart
Tom wasn't really supposed to be Consiegliere anyway because he wasn't Italian. Vito was pretty much the boss of bosses and Tom was his adopted son so nobody was going to say anything. But everyone knew he was a lawyer and not really in the muscle end of the family especially during a mob war. He wasn't a killer himself. Michael kept him out of things during the war because he loved him and respected him and didn't want him to get whacked when things were unstable for awhile when he became the new Don. He definitely trusted him and respected his intelligence more than Fredo.
It's a sicilian thing it was because he admired and respected that probably most importantly it was a strategic move to ensure Michael's life as well as his family's, see about taking him out of the business time was the only person he could completely trust after the assassination attempt. And like you said in the movie Tom isn't a wartime consiglaire.
Even though Michael felt a little bit of envy towards Tom hagen, he loved them and knew that things will get a little bit dangerous and he needed him close to the family. Michael was a great lawyer but just a simple one kind of like a private one for the family, not so much is a big time lawyer as Michael explained to him as well.
Tom was not a “war consigliere” exactly because he wasn’t that sharp in regards to opportunities and all that is described in the video. That’s why he was out. Great video 👍🏼
The only thing Tom was good at was figuring out ways that would preserve the family (which would be a sign of weakness to the other families) but wasn’t able to figure out ways to destroy their enemies. That’s why Sonny & Michael were always frustrated with him when they were boss, he was just not war time Consigliere. When Vito took the role of consigliere you can see the difference.
If Tom had been in Godfather III a lot of questions would have been answered. A better angle would also be having Andy Garcia's character be Fredo's bastard son, it would be extremely interesting.
Excellent analysis on Tom and his psychology, although you point out Tom’s inabilities - Tom was coachable and I believe could have become that chess strategist. Yes Tom and Michael were brothers but what you and most miss is Michael’s jealousy of Tom and how Vito (Mike’s idol) had a genuine love for Tom that even Michael felt and wish he had with his father. Michael, weakly took that anger out on Tom who admittedly had faults but was overwhelmingly capable in most situations.
Tom wasn't a wartime consigliere. He could negotiate and make peace but during the Five Families War the Corleones needed someone who could plan killing the 4 rival dons hence Michael and Vito's plan.
Tom was close to Sonny & Vito a Vito adopted him as per Sonny’s request. Perhaps he wasn’t astute in reading & influencing people as Vito & Mike but he was smarter than Fredo. Vito knew people, that’s why he put Tom through law school & built his legacy with qualified people.
I disagree with the notion that Michael failed as a Don. Sonny did. Michael took the family to new heights that Vito could never have imagined. Tom also protected the family as best he could against Sonny’s hot headedness.
Hard to give Michael such respect after all the mistakes he made. Heck, just look at his wife and their life for starters. List is just too long, I think his ego got in the way. Its easy to blame him for shortcomings but there is much they kept him in the dark about. They mostly used him as an adviser of the law and that's it, which he did a great job as. If they had trusted him with more, his opinions and advice likely would have changed.
U said he failed as a don ?? He was strongest Most rich powerful don he kill all the heads of the families no one hit back but Roth and even he died at end Micheal won
(Of course this is just my opinion) What's funny for me is, I see this film and it's characters differently because of my profession. I do marketing and PR, and our company's specialty is family-owned businesses. There are a lot of issues in these kinds of businesses you don't see elsewhere...in particular tension between family members, tension between family and non-family employees, and generational differences. It is very often the case the the children of a business owner are not really qualified to take over, because of the vast differences between growing up poor and hungry and building a business from scratch, and kids who grow up wealthy with employees deferring to them. In my view, all the kids of the Don are bad leaders, in their own way. All three kids grew up in a sort of royalty, and none of them have the patience, wisdom and broad experiences that the Don had. All three kids are spoiled and used to being deferred to. Michael is no different. Where Fredo is incompetent and lazy, and Sonny hot headed and violent, Michael is too ruthless and impatient to be a good leader. Where the Don cultivates respect, Michael cultivates fear...and you can't run a company (not even an organized crime one) with only fear. Think about the opening scene with the man asking the Don for a favor. Previously he was a successful businessman who ignored the Don and the family, but now is asking for help. Watch how the Don reacts. How (after waiting for a while I imagine) he now gently chides him for not being loyal before, but he helps him now...earning his loyalty and respect, making the Don stronger in the process. Now imagine how the sons would have reacted to the same situation and you'll see what I mean. Not even Michael would have done the same.
@@ChairmanMo Agreed. It showed how the Don ran his empire by way of example, but also stuff that was implied. I'm sure the Don was well aware of what happened to Amerigo Bonasera daughter, and he knew eventually he'd come asking for that favor. I'd bet too that Bonasera was invited to the wedding specifically to give him the opportunity to ask (if I remember that scene correctly).
Hmm, all this may be true but Tom was out as Consigliere at the end of Part One. The majority of your examples are from Part Two. It seems there are suppositions here.
Wrong. Tom was consigliere three times - to Vito, to Sonny and then to Michael, who later made him acting don. He wasn't "removed" as consigliere. He had been Vito's consigliere. When Vito stepped down, it was up to Michael to choose his own consigliere. Michael picked Vito. Why? Because Tom was so lacking? No, because Vito was the best person to tutor Michael. "Who better than my father?" Tom took it personally. He was uncomfortable with the situation. Now, he had nothing to do, which is not a good position to be in if you're an outsider who has been repaying Vito's generosity by being the family lawyer and the one Vito would assign to tasks that require diligence. His first instinct was to negotiate, leading Michael to shut him down. Michael was blunt. "You're not a wartime consigliere." Tom felt he was being blamed for what happened to Sonny, which is why Vito explained that Tom wasn't the one to blame. "You were't a bad consigliere; Sonny was a bad don, may he Rest In Peace." Still, Michael could be right without injury to Tom's competence as a consigliere. What Michael needed most, while preparing himself to take over, was someone who knew how to fight a war. Vito knew all the angles. Michael needed to soak up everything Vito could tell him. After Vito's death, Michael chose Tom. After Michael's residence was hit, he picked Tom to be his acting don. In doing so, he said he kept Tom at arm's length for just this moment, when Tom would be the only person he could trust.
Michael could never be Vito, Vito grew up on the streets, Michael enlisted in the Marines. Street smarts vs military mindset, both worked, but in different ways. It seemed as though Tom somewhat forgot his street smarts along the way, or a least they were secondary.
@@MoviesConsigliere thats the point of consigliere though? Advising their don so their don will stop making mistake. I think both Michael and Vito realised that Tom wasnt up for consiglere job hence why they relegated him as "lawyer". There is a scene in TGF2 where Michael had a chat with Senator (i forgot his name), the Senator mentioned Michael's plan which Tom completely knew nothing about it.
They can advise but in the end The Don is still, The Don. They don't have to listen to the advice and it's clear in the book and movie that Sonny is near incapable of taking anyone's advice. He was far too hotheaded to really listen. Besides Sonny's death is on Vito more than anyone imo. If he'd stopped Carlo from treating Connie like that then Sonny wouldn't have needed to rush out unaccompanied to defend her,
Heavens above Luca Brasi ! your analysis dissects the movie like a pathologist and histopathologist working together. Attention to detail and problem solving. Now I see why Michael is so bitter at the end of Godfather II, he had to do it with just Al beside him.
Great thoughts. But I disagree slightly; by the end, Tom’s attempt to leave the Corleone Family/family was the “corporate”equivalent of what Kay did. He was trying to get away from an increasingly megalomaniacal Michael. It might have been Tom’s smartest move had it come off. Tom would have been the only other person within the family (apart from Kay) to suspect Michael of Fredo’s murder. And Tom’s logic would have been “Well, if he can kill his own blood brother - what hope is there for me?!” Too bad we never got to play the narrative out to its logical conclusion in GF3!!!
It's hard to understand how someone like Michael knew so much about how to be a mafioso since he was sidelined for most of his life. Fast learner? Yet Tom hadn't learned anything during all those years? Nah.
But was Tom really out? Or was that just a show for whomever the traitor might be, to report back disinformation to Barzini? At Vito's funeral, Michael and Tom discussed the most confidential information, about the traitor, the hit on Michael, and the countermoves against Barzini. Wasn't Tom still acting as Michael's Consigliere at the funeral?
He let Sonny get killed. The book explains it. That's what your not a wartime consigliere means. He didn't have Sicilian balls to do what needed to be done.
One reason people forget he allowed his wife to abort his child on his watch He also was upset that Tom was kidnapped and made to be voice for the other side
@@seaninlondon4424 a simp Michael Corleone who handed his kids to a woman who turned his son against him and raised him to be emotionally weak, Michael begging for Kay's attention. There was a lot of modern day agendas hidden in this movie. No matter how old Michael was at the time he was a complete distant character. That movie was a mess in every way shape or form
@@guacaquio Actually the plot was pretty good. But, it was too hard to follow and even understand. It wasn't a typical gangster movie with all the priest and church stuff, which was boring.
You make good points. I noticed that after reading the original book Michael didn't see Tom as disloyal but kind of a doofus. The pivotal scene I saw Michael thinking, "you dumbass, you didn't think I would know? Just like you had no clue Tessio would be the traitor to assassinate me?"
Don Vitto was not a better Don than Michael, period. They both made mistakes, Michael only and biggest mistake was revealing himself while in Sicily. The challenges he faced were enormous compared to Vitto
Are you stupid? lol. Did you even watch the video? Michael's lack of empathy and his aggressive take on the role of Don is what ultimately leads to his downfall. It's not about having enormous challenges, it's about making sure people are loyal to you out of respect, rather than fear. Vito did this to perfection and only engaged in violence if it was absolutely unavoidable.
It is incredibly obvious thatif you have read the books you did not understand them, and that, in general, you are speaking way above your pay grade. A lot of what you are saying about Hagen's motivations are entirely out of your own head, and you are NO Psychaiatrist.Everything Puzo has written on the subject contradicts your accessment of Hagen's motivations. Stick to dealing with what the writers SAY, and don't quote your personal specualtions as fact.
Tom was a good lawyer and a decent consigliere but not on experiences in Sicilian mannerisms, cut throat vibes, customs and maybe even sicilian blood. He lacked the ability to interpret sicilianism.
