The TRUTH about how fighting games get "easier" 

Auto-combos = Fine. Auto-combos that continue AND auto-correct on WHIFF should not be a thing

I think people don’t realize how well overpowered moves/strats work as learning tools. I came into DBFZ not knowing what oki was, but bardock’s old lvl3 taught me. I didn’t know how mixups really worked until watching cell/buu ball mixups. I didn’t realize the value of assists until seeing old vegeta and yamcha support. I think designing around intense strengths and weaknesses makes the learning experience more intuitive. When you hear something is OP, you look at it and asks why.

Damn LK, Dragonball Fighterz is basically like my first fighting game I put a lot of hours into. I never even thought about game the movement mechanics and how they actually made it more easier . Well said and great points.

Autocombos are scrubby but they’re not that bad What’s bad is the side autocorrect that it has

That lordknight emote caught me mad off guard

Maximilian opened his latest video on Strive with "Unga, and I cannot stress enough, Bunga." And that makes sense. All of the points you talk about-huge damage from tiny confirms, bad anti-air options, inability to punish imprecise movement-fall under the general category of encouraging sloppy offense and weakening defense. And new players of a game love that because overwhelming pressure is *fun*. Being able to get in and beat your face on the controller and get rewarded for it is *fun*. But it also risks making the game shallow. The ideal game would be fun for new players while still having depth for expert players. Somewhere in between DBFZ super dash and classic Street Fighter fireball wars, there is a balance...

Autocombos in fighting games themselves arent bad, its just this particular case in DBFZ where some are obviously waaaay better than others. The damage buff it gets if a hit is whiffed( imo it shouldnt even come out on whiff at all) , the range, and the side switch/auto correct. Auto combos should be used as a stepping stone to ease new players into fighting games who dont have the execution and muscle memory yet and to incentivize them to learn actual combos. But that is not the case instead auto combos are legitimately a very strong tool for alot of characters especially in a very fast paced,aggressive, and sometimes chaotic game like dbfz where in a scramble situation its much easier and safer to just mash L.

Great analysis. If Maximilian watched these he'd reference your channel a lot. The information is concise and derivative. Exactly what you need in the modern fighting game era.

I just want to say LK I miss the claps at the begining of the videos man. It was your thing I remember from when I first started watching you. #bringbacktheclap

Just playing dragon ball has made me better being able to see everything and reacting to stuff and this game make games like mortal kombat seem slow

So I remember playing fighting games like SF, MvC, MK but it was only until FighterZ that I became intrigued by the FGC and FGs as an whole. I learned about Evo, Yipes, Sonic Fox, Ninja Killa, Subatomic Sables, ApologyMan. Bro, I could go on and on but to say less, I appreciate you for just being you. Hopefully the more I learn, I can hopefully best you in an FighterZ match lol. One day.

Best video that I have seen on this topic. Well done.

They made jumping a lot stronger in SFV, at least by SF standards

So what I got from this is that DBFZ is baby's first fighting game and since I still suck at that I got problems 😂 Great content as always LK! And the Twitch emote!!!

Auto combos will never fix this issue. Nobody feels good mashing one button even if it shows something cool on screen. People want to feel like they’re good at the game, not have the game pat them on the back for doing nothing.

back at it AGAIN...with ANOTHER video??

First step to watching an LK vid: MAX VOLUME

Nice analysis LK

There’s another way that devs make fighting games easier. They make locking the defender down after post neutral situations more difficult. I’m surprised that you didn’t mention it because it’s seen in such an extreme amount in DBFZ. The classic “I got the hit, got the knockdown then I got hit because I guessed wrong on knockdown RPS”. DBFZ is the obvious example of the variable tech timings, multiple ways to tech, reflect, etc. These options make it easier for the defender because they aren’t forced to just block it out. This makes it so that newer players get mauled less often by players with more experienced players. This is seen in Strive to a much lesser extent with hard knockdowns becoming less frequent.

I think what truly makes a fighting game easier is how soon can it get people to start playing with intentionality. When that happens, people are more willing to learn the situations and OP strats accordingly. If I'm too worried about how this game doesn't do the same thing as this game when it comes to say AAs or hit confirms. I'm going to feel like my intelligence is insulted from the previous knowledge I do have. Not much playstyles. People don't want to have to, "relearn" information. What they don't realize is that all they're doing is executing it differently. This explains the homogeneous feeling FGs are getting now. Another thing is to be able to condition your opponent. If there's too many options in a game, it becomes harder to condition someone because they can do multiple things to escape it. I generally like 3D fighters more because I've played them more and am high level in VF. Also, played tournaments for it and DoA. I can learn other 3D games faster but there's another reason. Compared to 2D games in which people can be untouchable due to options, this happens with experience but mainly in 3D games, no matter how good your opponent is, you always feel as though you're doing SOMETHING. Planting a mid, here, a low there, meaty here because you know you got a knock down and your options aren't overtly complicated compared to say DBFZ because you need to learn blockstrings to feel like you, "get" it. You feel competent sooner in 3D games in terms of decision making and execution. Now it just feels like getting better happens naturally and your overall decisions and intelligence is accounted for instead of something being barred from you because you couldn't understand one or two concepts. You FEEL your weakness. It is due to less varied playstyles in 3D games that can get people on the same footing early on. Execution should be a choice, be it harder or easier. Not overall defining a game. This also explains why SF players will never truly accept Anime games. They feel as though, the difficulty is arbitrary. It's a barrier that's preventing them from getting to the opponents head that you know is weak or may be weaker than you mentally. People can hide behind execution, it's true. I say this as someone who has made executional feats.

LK finally using the like + sub tech

My man got that Animal Crossing music on in the background.

That animal crossing in the bg tho

That in video subscribe button...

Good video

Can u do a neutro video of dbfz?

The way to add auto-combos is the Gatling they removed in Strive or the AutoCombo in Granblue where you NEED to be close to the opponent to trigger it, and TBH I think it should be done only if you hit them from the start AND should do less damage than a manually executed combo, as in Granblue, that is why Granblue to me is one of the best evolution in fighting games right now.

While we're talking about jumping in being really strong, it's kinda weird that air normals got no landing lag in Fighterz. You can block in the air, and you can throw a projectile to call out anti-airs. Being in the air gives you lagless moves that are + on block and full combo on hit, with the only downside being that there are moves that are invincible to SOME of your air attacks. Seems like an uneven trade, and so you see people constantly jumping and floating around in neutral. Seriously it's crazy how much people jump in this game.

7:19 "you have a lot of air options in the air" Lol where else would you have air options?

The buffer in FighterZ is much longer than I realized. I would always rush out buttons, and never be able to get enough damage. Turns out I was just going way too fast.

Man..I feel like I've gotten better at jumping into fighting games nowadays (yes, they are "easier" nowadays). As much as I wanna play DBFZ...I can never gel with it. I think I value grounded play and such more than combo heavy stuff

I honestly feel I’m the only noob that didn’t autocombo when I got this. I found out this game had autocombos and was like “hell nah I’m not doing that” and went straight to youtube. I have played other fighting games but not at the level I play DBFZ. And let me tell you I’m dogshit at all the other fighting games unless maybe it’s other anime 3D arena fighters and UFC cause I’m pretty nice at that. For a guy that has played the other big fighting games hella casually and plays this and can do corner combos, play decent neutral, learned numb pad notation quick, and a whole lot of other shit, if you want to play this game at a higher level I highly encourage you to go for and don’t get discouraged. If my friends and I can do it, then goddamn it you can too.

tbh my issue with dbfz was how stupidly opimized auto mixups were in addition to like no defensive mechanics at all. Even today whenever I see someone get out of shit they basically went for a read, either deflecting or throwing out spark or some reversal move (which then costs spark if you want to hitconfirm it). Reflect was even dogshit at least back when I played because the outcome wasnt consistent at all; sometimes you couldnt punish, and sometimes not even get out of the corner or stop the blockstrings in any way, so it basically was a high risk/little to no reward tool. Maybe a lot of things have changed now but when I tried it at launch I was like serioulsy I'd rather play blazblue for degenerate shit and 0 defense at least in that game the ridiculous offense takes execution skill.

I had to watch this because there's a Arcsys hater who rant about how their newer games is easier (Or older complex characters and games are better) in every Guilty Gear Strive announcement video on RU-vid.

When are you gonna get a mic....

I hear your and also saw your twit trying to bring together some really smart people about this topic. To be honest, I feel like fighting game devs are going about trying to get new players in the wrong way. At this point, they have done so much to make the games accessible to a lot of people. Which is great. But when you go around reddit and I see people complaining that they are new players and losing all their matches and find the game frustrating, I don't think the problem is that the game needs even MORE accessibility and a 12 year curriculum created by the devs to help new players become top players. I think Sajam at one point hit this during his rant after TI that he never pursued because he was advocating more for netcode is a reason for people to constantly return to the game. Fighting games right now have zero reason to turn on daily and play besides your own interest in the gameplay. Meanwhile I find myself and A LOT of gamers that tune into shitty games that have systems that rewire your brain into thinking you HAVE TO turn that game on everyday even if the game itself is dogshit. I think most fighting games that our community highlights are pretty good games. And it would benefit a lot from devs borrowing even a little bit from other genres to make people want to turn their game on daily will really increase the player base. And if it does, then we can have more players of all play levels get matched properly and grow at their pace. When I look at bigger games scenes real new players arent complaining like this because they have enough new players to match together and build up their skill. So as much as I appreciate all the work that is put into making the game accessible, I think a lot of that has been done and devs need to really focus on catching up to other games in terms of player retention.

The only game that I see myself never buying. Not because of the simplified commands or supers. But what turned off was the auto correct combo in this game. Auto combos aren't bad but the ones in fighterz are bullshit. There are better options out there.

fighting games getting easier was good and bad at the same time more casuals spent time,but at the same time competitive is a joke,so the community grew,however the games became shallow the reason ofc was marketing,the majority wouldnt spend money on a complex game they have no patience to learn,or if they did once,they wouldnt buy subsequent titles blazblue,guilty,gear,kof are probably the hardest franchises,and even those in their latest titles have become kinda more forgiving in execution p.s. greatest joke on that matter is when they say tekken 7 is hard,there was even an article on a site ranking it #1 in hardest fighting games,above guilty gear,above blazblue,above street fighter..i then realised once more that there are so many clowns out there overrating titles just because they re popular

Tklkscumbag in the corner lol

A part of it is more focused around game designer preferences too. Allowing players to block grounded moves without in the air may not be intended to make movement easier/harder, but instead be a part of the gameplay that the designers want to focus on or not. Something I wish that DBFZ did with its design space was make the transition between air and ground more seamless, as it was in the show. Have neutral that takes place while both parties are flying that is equivalent to (but not identical to) grounded neutral. POKKEN tried to do this and failed miserably, because it changed how moves worked based on how the "mode" you were in, effectively making it so you had to learn 2 fighting games instead of a cohesive whole. DBFZ could have been so much more on the whole if they were willing to push the envelope design-wise.

I don't mind beginner friendly mechanics but FighterZ messes up in two ways. The first is that the beginner friendly mechanics are so strong and prominent that they just become abusable at high level, this is your teen gohan, your super dash cross up and so on. The second is.... There's just so many... Its exhausting having to be aware of all of them all the time, C assists aren't bad on their own but it's just one more thing you have to be aware of in random/scramble situations and it's the same with everything else SD, auto combos, vanish etc. There are so many beginner friendly mechanics in this game that trying to improve just feels so unrewarding, you practice your combos and corner set ups and then get beat by some dipshit mashing square with teen gohan with a hint of lag. Cool, thanks.

Hey

123 views nice

whats up with vid quality lately?

Chip damage is needed.

I have no problems with auto-combos because it teaches new players how to block simple strings...I have a problem with dying to two Potemkin throws....That's just bullshit imo...Still buying strive....but not happy rn.

From what you've said it seems like they want to make offence stronger not game easier. I don't really sure why you torture yourself with ArcSys, their games almost always tried to buff offence. I think you should just switched to Tekken, Street Fighter, maybe Samurai Shodown. I feel like those 3 were made with people like you in mind. I especially recommend Tekken, it's the most chill fighting game ever in my opinion, defence there is extremely strong, throws are weak to the point that they almost not exist (so there is no need to worry about grapplers), girls are good looking (you seem to like this kind of stuff).

Funny that antiairs being weaker is better for new players, but they don't consider new players trying to antiair, so there's an unbalance in that situation.

Just wish they would delete sd.

Competitive games in general gets easier

Auto combo doesn't matter to me actually. I'm more concern with the motion controls hate doing 632146 in a controller. This makes me feel that the game has an advantage playing it in stick

You know... this really explains why I prefer the of P4A over Ultimax. Although I can’t always articulate why I prefer certain games over others, I can just feel when developers change certain properties in games over time, which can appeal to me or not. I tried to get into BBCT and DBFZ but I just couldn’t. I like the games, but I don’t want to play them for very long. So I just end up prefer other games like Melty Blood, Under Night, Blazblue, VSav, Skullgirls, GGXXACPR and such. I just prefer earning my wins, which makes it more fun for me than just simplifying the mechanics. I think French Bread has the correct idea when it comes to appealing to new audiences. Their games are easy to pick up, but to get good, you really have to master the mechanics and the movement in those games. Idk. I just don’t like how Arcsys has been changing their games as of late.

I think developers need to focus on making the game easy to pick up and understand while having room to grow for a high skill ceiling. Take basketball, it can be explained in easily in 10mins and you can start enjoying it faster because you get the idea so easily. However, there's such a huge gap from picking it up and nba that it leaves room to grow. I think they should add basic guides on how this character should win or what the goal of the character while playing. Often they give us universal tutorials but I think applying it to characters is the problem. Like you learned can block in the air but the character you picked shouldn't be in the air anyway because they have poor air options but you didnt know that. Let's use the basketball analogy again going through the tutorial would be like a coach teaching you all 5 positions but now you confused since there's so much info in your head but you dont know how to apply. Instead, he teaches you the basics of this position on offense and defense and now you only got to worry about two things but your level of play increases because you concentrating on this only. Then you can learn the nuances of this position and move on to the next position with the skills you learned. Only the basics though if the person wants to reach the next level with the character they either gotta learn from trial and error or checkout better players.

Fighting games are easier for sure and I think it started with sf4

Dbfz is easy until they have to play goichi.

TOTALLY DISAGREE that high damage makes games easier. it depends on your perspective. try beating a great player at ST. even with high ass damage it just wont happen. high damage means fewer mistakes needed to lose... meaning you have to make fewer mistakes, meaning you need to be a better player... this is pretty obvious. lower damage means you can block with your face and still win if your opponent simply played worse than you. also, more opportunities to go into full combo simply means more things you have to not be hit by to keep from making a mistake, which also means you need to be a better player in general. buuut, like I said, it depends on perspective. strong tick throw game forces good neutral because if yiu lose, you get thrown. weak tick throw game does the opposite. tick throws in ST are super strong, but loop throws (throw loops) are too strong...but I digress. easy execution doesn't make a game easy, so easy execution is fine. but making offense harder and defense easier (like in dbfz where mixups are pretty bad) makes it easier for the weaker player because they can lose neutral, but still come out of the offense having taken no damage. and I think we can all agree that the player that wins neutral more often can be considered among all other things, to be the better player. devs are combatting this by compensating for worse players by making mixups more tame and by making damage lower whichj makes losing neutral less of an issue. the first guy to lose neutral in ST/SG/mvc3 usually loses the match. and these are all considered some of the hardest games to play out there. the only supere duper high level expert game that can be considered lowish damage is mvc2. but that game is the greatest hppy accident ever and the damage is only low in poking scenarios. if you get combod that shit is going to hurt.

these changes are being made because casuals are more profitable than competitive players. it's the sad truth

"When jumping is bad and you don't like it, you are a noob and need to git gud. When jumping is good and I don't like it, the game is obnoxious and dumbed down."

the joy of fighting game is okizeme, frame traps, not execution

LK. Gonna keep it real with you. This video is pretty bad with the logic behind some of your reasoning.

word of advice: Please as much as possible avoid using the stock youtuber intro phrase of "Hey it's ______ back at it again with another _______" It turns a lot of people off from watching the rest of the video myself included.

The FGC needs to grow the hell up and stop acting like a bunch of children. It's really funny and sad at the same time. You play video games. Calm down.