The Truth About In-House Watch Movements | Watchfinder & Co. 

Hermes Eingild Declaro I personally believe Longines is one of the most underrated watch companies in the world. Even today, they make some amazing watches.

I have a Longings in my collection and, it's very impressive. I do think they are underated; their contribution to watch making is colossal.

zanza kuro perfectly balanced as all things should be.

Was just about to say that

I spotted that too. The attention to detail in these videos is second to none.

I truly loved that bit

@@737speedster Did you mean "millisecond to none"?

Yes, but they also make them outside of Japan (for their usual cheap models). But this does show why too much emphasis on in-house movements obscures the fact that better made products are often outsourced- i.e. the average ETA movement is better than the Average Seiko movement (and I love Seiko).

Patrick MacLeod but then that raises the question why buy a watch with an ETA movement which can be found in a Hamilton or in some Invicta’s for under $1000 than pay for for the same movement in a watch twice or quadruple the price such as Omega and Tudor just to name a few.

Yeah, they don't make their own stuff either. It's all made in China. Nowadays most of its assembled there too.

@@thecooldude4564 that's what destroyed most of the Swiss watchmaking back in the eighties and nineties. Now you are paying about the same for a seiko 4R or an Hamilton or a Junghans, wearing ETA 2824, but if you start climbing over the standard quality and price you will find elaborate and chrono ETA movement are delivered with overall higher quality then Seiko 6R equivalents in subtle ways, like small components or decoration which takes time and cost money to produce. Over that you will probably find in house movements to justify the increases costs and certain watches with standard 7750 calibers like the Old Navtimer are no more produced. Today is not about "precision" as any 5€ digital watch can do better, but about finishing and reliability. I'm brand agnostic and I have both seiko and ETA movement but when it comes to finishing, unless you are paying HIGH like on the grand Seiko, the ETA has an advantage nowadays. I would never think of saying a 2892 elaborate is the same finishing as the seiko 6R15 despite both being well above the standard movement finishing. What almost sinked the Swiss ironclad back in the day was self compliance and thinking they could get away with barely average watches with off the shelf movements at full premium price and they ALL were culprit of that, from Tissot to Omega to Breitling; now they have learned something and keeping the guard up. I have a Breitling Old Navtimer and I like the watch but I know the movement inside is just a standard 7750. What I like is the history behind the model, but I wouldn't say it's anything amazing despite the COSC compliance, at least not for the full retail price. The use of watches has also changed much: nobody today right in his mind would buy a Navtimer for complex calculation or think of relaying on a Speed master to bring back on earth in one piece the Apollo 13 astronauts. Those brands (Omega, Rolex, Breitling etc.) were delivering mainly precision tools for everyday use and wouldn't cost nearly as much as they do today because of the tool nature: you could buy a submariner for about 2.5k€ in the eighties, but nowadays you have to multiply at least 4 times the amount. Today any watch is, in it's own way a little Patek Philippe and even Seiko had to adapt as it could not justify its existence compared with any smart watch. Any analogic watch is just a fashion accessory totally superfluous as you'd get a more accurate time reading from the phone you carry anyway, so detail and appearance is everything, from a sad Daniel Wellington to a breathtaking Piaget Altipiano.

Not only that but Living in Japan is not cheap! I live in Tokyo and its insane expensive here and yet they make watches like they do for great prices

Photogenic hands too.

Very gay

It's the watch born channel.

Watch Geek Many JLC chronos used Universal Geneve movements back in the day.

Well, comparing Seiko, you can say the swiss made is a "Brand", then you can say Every eta based watch is Swiss inhouse. Or at least you can argue that all watches within the swatch group using eta are inhouse. In that sense, I would not say that seiko is "inhouse", also not swatch group watches using eta. So has to have some "exclusivity". As breitling is using a Tudor movement, its perceived still as something different than eta, right? As the Tudor movement is not used in 300 euro watches, as eta 2824 is used...

@@Gnomosfortheoffice thanks for correcting me, that leaves Seiko only 😂

Also, some of their perpetual calendars use an IWC-built perpetual calendar module on top of a JLC base movement.

Graduate from 'BJ's Second-Hand Chinese Strap Sale and Sponsored Content Show Extravaganza'. It's old.

@@Chris-es3wf To each their own, certainly I don't mind learning a bit about horology. Sponsored or not, BJ does make good content. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy his straps or watch his videos. Would you stop listening to a certain genre of music just because another individual criticised it?

Omega bungled it by quoting Neil Armstrong on the case back and getting it wrong. They added an "a" that wasn't there. The Swiss redacting history by editing English grammar.

@@stevek8829 I read on the Omega and Nasa forums that Neil did indeed intend on saying "a" man; because otherwise the quote makes little sense. It's one of those debated mysteries. But NASA engineers do say that Neil did intend on saying "a" man.

@@barfymann362 he said the "a" but it was lost in static and the transmition.

Very well said!!!

100%. Pagani uses engines from Mercedes AMG. The DeTomasso Pantera and Bizzarrini 5300 GT used Ford and Chevrolet engines respectively. Maserati has used Ferrari engines for a while now (with Alfa Romeo and Lancia borrowing the engines at various points previously). And, the Jaguar xj220 used a modified Metro 6R4 groub B engine. It's the way of the industry.

Totally disagree. If you don’t make the engine in your vehicle, be that a watch or a car, you’re not a real manufacturer. Everybody and their mother can order a case and put a movement in it, and they do, and they are not real watch companies. They case and sell. No respect for that.

@@CleanClaspCollector Patek and Vacheron and AP have all sourced movements from Jaeger LeCoultre in the past. What does that make them?

le m So much rubbish in one post. It’s incredible how incorrect much of what you have written is.

Rado uses their version of the Powermatic. I have a new one with an 80 hour power reserve. Yes it ticks a bit slower but come on you can hardly notice it from the 28,800. Oh and it's running +2/3 seconds a day.

theonlyredspecial definitely a great looking watch. My only issue is the pushers feel kind of cheap.

Link.

Very well said

That would be entertaining but I imagine Watchfinder would get taken to court if they did... shame.

Rosschops it’s a big investment for watch makers additionally it is a trial and error. For example, I read that it took breitling ten years to get their first in-house movement to function properly and they still use the ETA movements in most of their watches.

@@thecooldude4564 Yes and despite having respect and owning several eta-powered entry level watches, I wouldn't buy a Breitling as my idea of a luxury watch includes an exclusive movement(as much as possible).

Rosschops I agree

@Tin Mosso I'm not too aware what goes on with some of these companies honestly but it seems that they have good info on history of these watches. I know Watchbox and Urban Gentry has joined forces and they now get bashed. I don't have any sort of experience with them personally so I just view the content and if they are liked by many then chances are that they are legit.

@ADEBISI ADEBISI Very constructive, indeed

Obligatory Seiko comment.

Absolutely. Summed it up perfectly. 👌

I disagree completely. I like mechanical watches because of the mechanics itself, the ticking, the quality, the "aliveness". I also like them, because they can (at least in theory) be serviced for a very long time to come. But if every brand cooks up their own movements with high-tech parts, which can only be serviced by them, then I am in a dependence I don't want. I want my watches to be repairable by independent watch repair men. For that reason I even prefer watches with common movements. I don't want some diva on my wrist that doesn't even perform as good but costs 10 times more just because the brand can market itself as "in house".

@@johnxantoro5511 What meaning does performance have in a watch? They are obsolete, we merely like the craftsmanship and the effort that goes into them, sometimes their historical signifance or the designer. I'd take a timepiece that contains some new developments over a "tried and true" movement that's been around for 50 years any day. it's not kitchen utensils were talking about where grandma's cast iron pan does the trick.

@@MrAhuraMazda Yes, so did Patek and the watch is amazing. Still, Patek's self-developed movements interest me far more, because it prooves that they still put effort into advancing their tech.

@@digggert I view it differently. Yes, a quartz watch is going to be more accurate. But that doesn't mean quality and "performance" are irrelevant to me, when I wear mechanical watches. I still want a good (enough) performance (which is for instance ETA movements have). I don't wear mechanical watches purely to be anachronistic or as an art piece. They are that as well, yes, but they are also functional pieces with real value in their use. And to me things like repeatability also play into the equation. To me mechanical watches, just like fountain pens, writing on paper or wearing leather shoes is also not "obsolete" (I know what you mean). To me, they are useful pieces of my everyday life with actual utility. I am not against new developments in the mechanical world but what I don't like is a dependence on the manufacturer and also developments like independent repair shops not being able to get original parts (I am a fan of "right to repair").

@@johnxantoro5511 I get your points and I also value the reliability of all my watches, be it eta or Nomos or Seiko. And I cherish goodyear welted shoes, but one could argue that their usefulness and quality is still unmatched by cheap shoes. I guess for me, as an engineer, the aspect of innovation and in-house competence just speaks to me more than other aspects of watches.

Spot on man, the looks and finish if the watch is very important combined with accurate serviceable movement. Watch snobs are a curse to watch hobby and they turn a lot of interested people away from this hubby

Gandhar Kulkarni I tried one on yesterday, not sure I can carry one off, it a little intimidating trying one on when there’s a picture of Steve McQueen wearing one on the wall next to you, but damn it’s gorgeous, all their other watches are pretty hideous, but the Monaco is just👌👌👌

dumb brick

Even if that movement was made by JLC?

Vlad Tepes bit harsh.

Then, do not buy a watch more than $4000, there's one exception: Grand Seiko.

@T Johnson there are more movement exporters than selita or ETA. What about Frederique Piguet? What about Blancpain? What about Zenith? What about JLC? They all make fantastic movements which usually out-perform their in-house counterparts, and the price point is rarely below $4,000.

Bryce Richards uh huh

L2.750.4.76.2

ZR4484 Longines beat UG by 4 years

Omax fe357 Including the movements made in Malaysia?

@@a_brodo3158 just to be clear hear, it's still an in house movement by design! They're assembled in Malaysia, these watches are clearly made in Japan as well! Labelled as Japan movmnt, and not to be mistaken for a JDM watch....

Omax fe357 Oh yeah it’s still designed by them, but to be pedantic it’s technically not true that all of Seiko is entirely in-house

So?

@@a_brodo3158 No, Malaysia is still seiko's house as long as they have their own factory there for assembly. It still counts as in-house as long as they are not purchasing parts from suppliers.

Longines, in the twentieth century, has a better history than Rolex. Even Omega and Audemars Piguet can't claim that.

I thought of John Wick immediately after hearing it, complete with raised eyebrow.