LOSE WEIGHT NOW! www.amazon.com... Chael Sonnen explains the difference between a fixed fight and a dive on this episode of Beyond the Fight. www.podcastone... Click here to subscribe - www.youtube.co...
A couple of the most famous fixed fights and dives were not even real :) Butch Coolidge vs. Floyd Wilson, Pulp Fiction (1994) Coolidge doublecrossed Marsellus Wallace. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series (1997) the Montreal Screwjob.
Taking a dive is not finding a way out of a fight. That is called quitting. Taking a dive is being paid ahead of time to lose and you make it look convincing.
Merman Exactly in combat sports you take dives, in sports like basketball, football they are fixed. Fixed by point shaving or paying a team to lose. You can’t fix a fight, you pay a fighter to dive.
I agree, I was just giving uncle chael another example for his definition of dive, which is why I said "dive" unc said he's just now hearing this term some how. I only started watching MMA/boxing on the regular a few years ago and I know a dive and a fix are the same damn thing, guy a is fixing the fight by paying guy b to take a dive by acting like guy c knocked him out even though the punch wasn't shit.
@@The_Primary_Axiom paying a team to lose would mean that team is taking a dive, if they knowingly lose on purpose it would be the same thing as a fighter taking a dive
No, max rohskopf quit when he was sitting on the stool and said call it I’m done. (Not saying he shouldn’t have) taking a dive is someone beating your ass but not knocking you out, you realizing you aren’t doing anything and your not gonna win and they hit you in the chin and you overreact and go down so the ref will stop it. One was predetermined the other was playing something up before you really get hurt.(knowing you were gonna lose anyway)
@W Baldwin It may be modified but that is what it is closest to. It is nothing like an Ezekiel Choke other than the person is on the bottom and mounted. I'm only a blue belt but this is pretty much an arm triangle from the bottom.
@@gaamna i never said it was an ezekiel choke all i was stating that bisbing also called it that. Believe it or not your not the only one that knows mma
@Jduck87 interesting enough cruz didn't recognize it either and both of them were really surprised and seemed to be a little in disbelieve when they got the info from the truck that it was an armtriangle from bottom.
There's a middle ground that Chael doesn't cover. A fight where only one is told to take a dive and the other thinks it's legit. Always thought Chael vs Tito was one of those
Connor mcgregor took a "dive" when he gave Nate Diaz his back after getting his face beat in, he couldn't roll over quick enough to let Nate choke him out.
Sonnen! A dive is when a fighter fixes a fight for money. another way of saying it is when a fighter is bribed. there is usually gambling on the fight. How do you not know what a "dive" is? probably a good thing.
What Chael described here is not a dive as we traditionally understood it. A dive is agreeing to lose before the fight has begun. It could be in a certain round or in a certain way (via KO/decision). The opponent may or may not know it beforehand. A dive is usually a component in fixed fights (not always) except in WWE or movies where the loser of the fixed fights is just acting and not really taking a dive.
But Chael what about when a fighter takes a dive to make a fixed fight for money etc. ? I believe the line between a dive and fixed fight is solid, but I also believe there are grey areas 🤷♂️
Heres a question. If one fighter is instructed to lose the fight but the other fighter doesnt know this, is the first guy taking a dive still or was the fight fixed? BOOM ! MIND BLOWN
There's is also the fixed dive. One fighter (the odds-on favorite) and his associates decide to make a pay day, but don't let the other fighter or promoter know about it.
The reason old school jiujitsu (and often current people who learned under the old system) take a long time to submit people is because of the phrase "position over submission". Good modern people are working more on submitting and positional advantages from scrambles. Look how fast your boy Craig Jones is breaking people's legs; his master Lachlan Giles too
Hey Chael did you know there's a independent 3rd party that regulates sports betting World Wide? There's only 2 sports that haven't signed up for this regulation 1) Professional Boxing 2) MMA hard to argue fights aren't fixed when the Betting Police aren't allowed to uphold the law.
It probably didn't help with green arm behind his neck and his other hand pushing back on his forehead putting alot of pressure on the back of his neck
Never watched fighting (other than boxing) when Pride was a thing. Why were fights fixed in Pride? To build stories like Pro Wrestling? Corruption (betting etc)? To protect fighters in potential one-sided matches?
Fixed fight is when both fighters know how the fight ends. A dive is when a guy is paid to lose and his opponent doesnt know about that. When fighter escapes the fight because he cant handle it anymore is just a quit.
I really cant see a missing strike in that josh thomson fight. Can somebody explain it to me? And is there an interview with joe rogan, i can't find it
Fixed game means point shaving like basketball, football and so on. Or paying a team to lose, that’s called a fixed game. A dive is only in combat sports. You can’t fix a fight. You either lose or win, whoever is paid to lose takes the dive. Dive means being paid to lose.
I love the ol "Pride was doing fixed fights". Also nice to hear some Royce Gracie stories. Combine the two a bit for me, Uncle Chael....out of the 5 or so Gracies that Sakuraba beat, how many of them "took a fall" for a check? How much did Pride pay Helio Gracie to throw in the towel on the Royce match? I'd love to get the truth on this subject.....Rogan always forgets to mention the Gracies in his "Pride's fights were fixed" rants too. Strange. Sad.
Way back, Anthony Macias took a dive against Oleg Taktarav. Before the opening bell Macias pointed at one of Taktarav's legs. Sure enough, that's where he went. Fight lasted seconds.
What Cowboy did against McTapper is a classic example of a fixed fight. Almost no one knows except people who understand body language. Cowboy has subsequently said he quit in the Octagon.
College football is fixed. When back in the day Portland State was on NEBRASKA schedule . Portland State earned 1 million for the trip to Lincoln. Got their ass wooped by 70. But Neb were just building a schedule. All sports are fixed until you get to the playoffs.
Shit I thought you were talking about Kay Harrison that seemed like a fix/dive more than gian villante fight. Gian was overweight fighting a stronger man
Man listening to Chael talk about how fighters who get submitted are fighters who are looking for a way out makes me feel really bad for him thinking of his first fight with Silver. Was he looking for a way out?
The idea is vaguely put forth and the interpretation is yours to make. Lots of good undertones here to evaluate. Sonnen worked Silva hard then remembered he supposed to do something. Work/dive/quit all in one. Thanks Unc Chael for the free education
I've suspected for some time that MMA may be rigged. I'll still watch it, like I've been watching WWE since 1984. It doesn't bother me. Just make the fights look real, that's all I'm looking for.
Bring Back.. Timeperiod of.. ButterBean. His mma fight. Had 15 second ground fight. Duh a 10second triangle choke. Or Butterrbean coukd lay on u of 300plus pound. Of 15seconds
I love your introspection on the sport and upcoming potential fights...keep making the videos ! Your viewpoints are awesome and have a major effect on the sport at large...meaning you and your opinions can get matches made!
I'm unsure if Chael can spell Jujitsu but I know Anderson took a dive (along with most of the State of Nevada) when the largest arms start throwing spinning back fists
This is ludicrous that Chael doesn't realize that using the term "Dive" to refer to fixing a fight is and has been the preferred nomanclature since the beginning of prize fighting. The parlance of wagering coined it. Pulp Fiction "In the 5th your ass goes down" Later Butch says "I took a dive" granted you could you take a dive without intentionally fixing a fight, that however is the less likely scenario. For Chael to say that taking a dive has nothing to do with fixing a fight is the most talking out of his ass he's ever done. He's had some recognition for being quick witted and sportingly verbose but, I think hes starting to drink his own Kool Aid, reckoning he should give us professional gamblers here in Vegas a lesson in wagering verbage. Hahha I can't do my laughter Justice with an acronym. I remember Mark Coleman taking a dive in Pride, we all do. That was for a 3 fight contract, about $600,000. I don't remember seeing someone take a dive in the UFC but, I do know someone who won $190,000 when Iaquinta beat Mazvidal. You remember the fight where gamebred turned his face into a punching bag and oh that's right, Al didn't land ONE punch. Moneyline was +190. It's getting less frequent in the UFC for sure, but don't think the judges are that fucking stupid. The only person that ridiculously idiotic is the guy saying the term take a dive has nothing to do with fight fixing. Don't forget, the heart of the UFC is in Vegas. Enough said.
SO if a dive is when a fighter quits and a fixed fight is when the promoter forces one of the fighters to win what do you call UFC 1-5 where they changed all the rules in the favor of the Gracies? and then was the first Gracie vs ken shamrock a fixed fight when the judge clearly was paid off?
memelordnord How was that fight a big fight, Cowboy got paid his money regardless of the result. It was a fight at 170lbs with two fighters who don’t usually fight there and the rankings were either not effected or effected at 155lbs, this wasn’t a number one contenders match, it wasn’t even to gain a top 5 spot or anything. It literally meant nothing
@@userunknown3761 that's honestly the dumbest comment on all of youtube. first of all, Conor literally got a title fight at 155 based on fights at 170 in the past, and Dana has said numerous times that they were waiting to give conor the winner of khabib/justin before he "retired". Second of all, it 100% effected the rankings at 155, p4p. AND 170 - Conor literally moved up two places in the pound-for-pound rankings to 11 while climbing one place in the lightweight rankings to # 3, moving above Justin Gaethje after beating donald, while also entering the Welterweight rankings for the first time in his career at #14...That make belief logic of yours doesn't trump reality. If you don't think beating conor would have sky rocketed donald back into the title conversation, while gaining new fans, and giving himself leverage for his next contract negotiations, you don't know how mma works. Not a big fight? they literally set the record for streaming ppv buys as the first to ever break 1 million, and was the second highest selling ppv in ufc history.
The way Anderson Silva fought against Weidman in their first match, makes me feel like Silva took a dive there. He just wanted to get rid of the title and take a time off.
Silva was trying to get in his head and got caught. He did stuff like that against other fighters too and still won. If he wanted to get rid of the title and take a vacation, there’s plenty of ways to do it that don’t involve getting ko’d in front of millions of people and eating a couple more shots after. He took some serious head trauma there and no one just allows that cause they need a break. He would’ve tapped when Chris was going for that heel hook if he wanted out of there.
Dive = Dustin Vs Connor. Fixed=Dustin Vs Connor. Same thing , he got paid to take a glancing blow on his head and take a dive to lose for a red panty night
watching Maurice Greene basically do nothing for the first two rounds and still get so gassed that he was drenched in sweat was honestly one of the funniest things i've seen in MMA this year.
You've also got the guy who has been paid to take a dive (maybe in a specific round) - and his opponent has no knowledge...this must happen a lot in boxing for betting purposes...
