Or because you don't want to move until you're sure everybody else has passed? They've already moved to avoid you, if you try and move you'll just get in their way. And if you do get hit, you don't want to be open and exposed.
Got wiped out not in a race. Hit a pothole rolled for a few meters. Stayed down because there are cars behind me. I was lying still because I was praying. 🤕 They didn't run me over which is why I can post here. 😅
swolebro And that’s worst-case scenario, best case scenario he stands up, gets on the pedals hard, keeps his speed and actually makes the pass on the grass, anywhere in between he still comes out better than he did
I'm not defending anyone's decisions here but sometimes in a race or a really hard group ride your brain isn't working at 100% and these things happen. Stay safe out there!
They happen but that doesn't excuse endangering other riders. Even if their brain isn't working at 100%, riders still have a responsibility to that, hence NorCal's title.
Having an escape route is definitely a great point. When he got that wheel that close to the other rider's pedal, it was hard to watch, but it really shows a great lesson and I loved that you included yourself in almost identical situation.
Yeah as soon as I saw that front wheel come up I was thinking "and down he goes." I've seen smaller gaps that guys have eeked through but there was an actual line in front of them.
Looks like blue kit dude in the rear camera footage saw that shit coming from a mile away, reacts with a “whoa whoa” and backs off just enough to evade/escape the crash.
I've never seen this type of video. Worthwhile viewing! I'm just getting into road bikes. As a former moto roadracer, this looks more hazardous than motorcycle roadracing. You can get seriously hurt on a motorcycle crash, but we have full leathers, full helmet, gloves, back protector, etc. 100 mph get offs it is common to walk away without any injury.
I can imagine why you sat on the submitted footage for so long, it’s reasonable and your focus is clearly on good content coupled with good intent. And big kudos to the rider for submitting the footage to begin with. We’re seeing this today because both you and the anonymous submitter ultimately reached the same conclusion; there’s something to be learned here for all of us. Great commentary, as usual.
I was in that race and saw myself in the footage. That was a wild crash; it ended the race if I remember correctly. The dude didn't get up for like 10 minutes.
Aaron Savona yup, it ended the race for sure. I was knocked out and had a bad concussion and road rash. 2 riders with broken collar bones, and some guys with real bad road rash.
That guy was overlapping wheels like crazy, that was bad riding. That guy should not have made that move. He was boxed in. It was either go right where it slower or you're done.
It is incredibly bad form to come up on someone's back wheel like that when they don't know you are there, all he had to do was sit in their clean air and take a little rest and get them on the straight.
I was in this race....I was the rider in blue/yellow tumbling at the end. The rider that caused this took many bad lines and risk in this race. I don’t think is fair to say the rider in the black and red was in his way. I don’t think your saying he’s at fault but it’s not right to say he was in the was. I do wish the guy that caused this would have said something down the line to the guys it affected. Small race scene here and that put a big damper on things.
I believe he's just objectively describing the situation from the perspective of the rider with the camera. Not assigning blame. For example, if there are riders "in the way" of your escape routes, you probably should not go for that move and brake to avoid crashing.
Jesse Brennan A couple questions. How late into the race was this? It looks like a split was materializing and the guy in red/black had just done a turn on the front trying to bring it back. He probably could have peeled out, rather than in, but not a big issue. Main takeaway for the guy who panicked and created the domino effect...don’t get stuck on the wrong side of a split.
Am I not seeing things right? Where was the rider in blue/yellow that was falling. He didn’t appear in the front and back cameras. He would have been right behind the guy falling but he wasn’t in the rear camera. It looks like the guy in blue/yellow falling was the one overlapping wheels.
This was midway through the race. The was group you see off the front was about to finish a prime lap. Our group that was involved would have bridges back to them in a 1/4 lap after they eased up. I was a couple riders back and just no where to go, hit a bike and went down. 30mph on a turn. I guess a few of us were in blue and yellow. You don’t see me until near the end tumbling down
How to avoid crashes is as valuable of information as any race tips. Hard to win if you can’t finish because you were taken out by a crash. Great video Jeff. More like this please!
Wow. How could someone choose that line. Incredible. You can see that coming from a mile away. Thanks for sharing. I sincerely hope this video avoids the one or the other crash in the future.
Morons drive their cars the exact same way every day. Forcing their vehicles into tight spaces to gain two seconds of distance down the road. Morons will be morons. It’s what they do. 😆
After having been in a crash that was somewhat similar with another rider doing the same, I hate seeing crashes... but in every crash there’s a lesson to be learned... and herein lies the lesson... thank you NorCal....
Good analysis. Seems simple but when I first started riding a veteran said to me "protect your front wheel" honestly I did not know what he was talking about for awhile, but I learned, gratefully before falling victim to my own mistakes.
Then again there is just plain dumb riding and I am as guilty as anyone else, as my coach put it to me "Anyone who tells you they have never made a stupid mistake is lying and is an accident looking for somewhere to happen cycling is a death sport and no race is worth dying for".
I was racing back in the 80’s as a Cat 3. I was still riding fast training rides just a few years ago. I noticed one big difference when riding these same training rides from decades ago. Riders are strong and fast but don’t know how to ride. I see constant over lapping of wheels and riders getting into tight spots for no reason. I made friends with one of these guys and he use to ask my advice. First thing I taught him was how to draft a wheel. His idea was to ride directly behind the wheel in front of him by inches. He rally had no clue and looked at many RU-vid videos to try to learn the proper way. There aren’t any I don’t think. I showed him how to spend as little energy riding and when to go hard. Just a few novice tips. He started staying in the ride more and not getting dropped as often. Eventually with experience a couple of years later he actually wins racing now. In my day we had more experienced riders help us newbies with the tricks of the trade. We need this sort of thing again to help avoid these dumb crashes.
Thx for sharing this. I realize how bike racing at the end of the day is about making a lot of decisions with small windows of time to make them. While the tactical aspect of decisions is huge, thanks for sharing how decision making is a significant factor of safety in a race which is something all racers should care about first and foremost in my opinion. Love your content. Keep it up!
it's less about split second decisions and more about overall mindset. what are your priorities? *especially* in an amateur race, you should be riding to avoid injuries vs doing anything to win. you aren't going to choose a super risky line like this unless you have an overly aggressive attitude.
Its always when there is a differential of speed. Slowing riders being passed by accelerating riders. Generally, the faster a race, the safer. I honestly feel like every bicycle racer would benefit from reading motorcycle safety guides. The "escape route" is a common theme for motorcyclists on the highway who often get cutoff by inattentive drivers. Being conscientious of always having a lane to escape to or even a grassy median, is a good habit to develop.
I appreciate the quick lesson learned, for many cyclists safety for the years on. Especially considering you weren’t planning on ever uploading this footage. Thank you again.
One aspect of racing here is that you do get tired and your reaction times can be a bit slow - it's very easy sitting here watching it in slow-mo with a heart rate of 60 - I think one of the skills of racing is precisely learning to make allowances because your thinking and perception do start to get a bit blurry when the red mist descends!
I get your point but there is always a voice in the back of your head that is quietly saying don't do that, but in the heat of the moment it can be easy to ignore it. The pain of road rash does however tend to sharpen your hearing.
I think videos/tips like this are great. Races are ultimately a series of moments and decisions that add up to success or failure. I'd like to see more content like this from you. Not necessarily crashes, but short takeaways.
I like having crash footage broken down. I did my first races this season at the college level and every single race someone crashed. I just built a nice bike that I can't afford to replace, so I'm thinking of only doing CX races for this very reason.
I just bumped into this video and got a flashback. I raced Formula Fords at Waterford Hills about a hundred years ago. Bikes are cheaper but not by much.
My friend suffered life changing accident which affected his brain in florida years ago while in a pack. Glad he is starting to get his old self slowly but surely
I don't race ,but I ride with fast group ( well a smaller group now) .My main focus when riding with them is 1. don't get dropped 2. Don't cause any problems ie crash.. There are so many thing that you can gain by avoiding the crash. You get to finish the ride,you don't have an expensive repair bill and no injuries..
If you ARE going to show crash video have a thoughtful purpose for it, like making it a teaching moment. Good on you NorCal for using the video footage in the correct manner, and not making it just another bit of video entertainment to thoughtlessly consume.
Yessssssss broooo omg this video has finally informed me to the cause of my recurrent road rash f man sometimes things aren’t that apparent no matter how clever you think you are, honestly thanks for this share man this elevates my cycling to the next level, sometimes noobs need a hand bro, fyi 36 yrs old, road riding 3 yrs, mountain biking since age 5, road riding is a totally different ballgame
@@chaseclaborn7028 these dudes are nuts for wearing helmets and pretty much nothing else, through my experience dressing for the slide is much more important than dressing for the ride.
When a rear wheel comes over like that, you can turn into it, kind of bump it with your front wheel. It will move the wheel over, but will not knock the rider over. Takes good timing. We used to practice it.
It's been a LONG time since I raced road, but now that I race mountain, I'm so accustomed to hearing or shouting "on your left/right". Did that just become passe for road racing?? Yes, small gap, but the quick announcement (wasn't going to lose the race right there) might have gotten a better percentage of success. #justopinion
The general feeling I've gotten is, if you have to announce your presence in a race with an "on your left/right," you're taking a risk and trying to shoot a gap that isn't there (you shouldn't have to if you're taking a clean line). In a group ride, that's good ediquitte, but in a race competitiors have no obligation to just hand you the fast line on a silver platter. You have to make sure you have the real estate to get through safely.
@@ryanmcloughlin9410 This is the right answer if you can do it do if you have to announce it then you can't really do it. I'm not talking about the occasional need to announce left/right/inside to a rider next to you I'm talking about a person who they only their move will work is if other altering their lines to have it work. Add to that if you start yelling inside so you can make a dangerous pass under me you can be sure I will shut that door.
Xavi Catawba Idk. All the (cat 4/5, novice) races I’ve been to, people are constantly communicating, saying “on your inside” or “hold your line” or whatnot. However, in this case it seems like the rider who chopped the POV’s wheel was himself getting pushed by another rider and had to move to give him room. So it wouldn’t have done much.
@@RileyDao yep, true, and good point. I wasn't thinking about the idea of single track versus true peleton closeness. But like I said in another comment, I was trained to communicate in packs no matter what as a junior and it stuck to me (I'm 50+ now). But that also speaks to if you are in the right place or not. You know, "RIDE at the back, RACE at the front". lol
Good advice. I got boxed in a final sprint and went to the outside. Waited for a hole to appear, which didn’t, so then went to the grass and around the field. My teammate was on my wheel and it paid off for us both.
I literaly can feel the Pain. In one local trainings Crit somebody wanted to take the insid an smashed his Pedal into the Ground and took nearly 5 riders out. Luckily only "some Road rash". Bout still that is quiet intimidating. Hope everybody is now alright.
As a former motorcycle rider I never liked group rides because of the likelyhood of a crash when mixing riders of significantly different capabilities. As a bike rider now I feel the same way.
I'm also a motorbike rider since 16yo and hate anything but the highest categories of racing. There the crashes aren't as stupid and people handle their bikes better and are sort of more serious and race with higher stakes and are less worried so they make better split second decisions and don't panic in hard body contact etc. It's terrifying to ride behind terrified riders
@@nikitavolochenko2169 ummmm he just did tell you what happened... lol he hesitated on his brake... his foot probably got caught in something, and it was then probably mangled...and then amputated. That's probably about it!
On a very hard circuit up and down mt Penn in reading two guys immediately in front of me locked handle bars at about 45 miles an hour going down the mountain the first lap took out 25 people still mad at them
I've had some close calls at Autobahn Country Club in that same corner, except in my race car! LOL! Been wanting to get my bike out on the course this year, however with the COVID that may not be an option this year.
@@grantofat6438 That's why never took up racing smashed a couple of club track records in my first two events and made it into the state final of the criterion and doing high speed corners avoiding trees with mattresses tied to them as crash pads was enough for me I just rode off into the sunset with all my "running gear" in one piece.
Great analysis and comments. I race this track all the time - with cars, obviously a lot faster. And your analysis and comments are exactly the same as we'd describe on four wheels - going for a gap that's no longer there, with no plan of how to get out of the situation when, not if, it goes pear-shaped. Can't just go for open track and hope it all works out: hope is not a strategy.
he should've atleast said something or scream to alert the cyclist in front of him if he decided to do that. no one would expect a dude just trying to squeeze a line like that 🤦🏻♂️
This was Cat 5, right? Feathering the brakes is always an option. As soon as you stop pedaling it sends the signal to those behind that you're no longer moving up. If freewheeling doesn't slow you enough then a gentle touch of the brakes will do. Simple actions that signal your intent. Of course you never want to signal your intent when trying to get away but if you're going to be coming backwards towards someone, it's always nice to give them some visual clues. I'd like to say that the guy learns from this but to put yourself in that position in the first place makes me wonder if he was still suffering from another head-munching crash in a day or two prior to this.
Need to look ahead for slowing riders, as soon as you see one ... move onto a better line for overtaking ... this can be done gradually with smooth movement so riders around you blend smoothly rather than a last minute jerk of the bike to dart right then left.
I didn't hear any audibles either and I don't know if that isn't a thing in bike racing or not, but it seems like it'd still be useful in cases like these
Thank you for the better play.. Every time that I watch your video I learn more about biking (salamat bro) it means thank you I'm a filipino from philippines.. 😊🚴♂️🚴♂️🚴♀️🚴♀️🚵♂️🚵♂️🚵♀️🚵♀️
You live you learn, everyone does something stupid at some point. I'm sure he was more careful after this. You should mention feathering of brakes. I'm always terrified the guy behind me won't be able to respond, but when you have to brake you have to brake.
I distinctly remember my last crash before I quit cycling. It was very rainy and I had a train of about 5 guys in front of me. We were coming out of a corner going around 50k/h. And I saw this guy 2 places in front of me just ride off the road. He could have avoided problems if he just kept rolling out on the grass and stay upright and wait for the rest of the group to pass before going on the road again. Instead what this guy did was steer back onto the road right away, falling right in front of us instead (this all happened in slow-motion of course). And then all I could do was relax my body and accept whatever happened next, as I knew a crash was unavoidable. It was too bad because I felt really strong that day; I was always good in rain and was going to be in the next breakaway. The next thing I remember was I was laying on the ground and as I tried to pick up my bike again and continue the race, I heard somebody scream out "no, no, careful!" and then I realized that another rider's leg was inside one of my wheels, right in-between the spokes. I was stronger than I ever was when I made my departure from the sport at 21. Sadly I moved away to another town to study and didn't look for another team. Studying and racing was not easy enough to combine. I am 30 by now, but who knows I might race again in the future.
I think the big miscalculation was not realising the guy in front will at some point want to take the shortest line around the bend too, which means veering to the left. If this were in a straight line, it probably wouldn't have led to a crash, just a few cuss words from the rider behind.
I was in a Project Echelon RR a few years ago, I made a pass on the very right edge of the road nearly on the last CM of pavement. My out was onto gravel and the ditch, fortunately I didn't need it. Same race, I was in the same situation on the left side up tight against yellow. In that case my out would have been disqualification, again all went well.
I don't race, and ride mountain bikes, but I think one thing I've learned that would probably carry over to any version of our two wheeled sport is that a judicious use of the brakes actually saves you time in the long run.
Really bad judgement, the big guy in the front is going half his speed and it certainly doesn’t look like a critical moment of the race. Just use the f**king brakes, if you don’t care for yourself that doesn’t mean you can put everyone at risk
he went to the right which is what you're supposed to do and what everyone else would do, but it was the second guy where he couldn't make the right decision, it was behind the second rider where he should've braked, or gone to the right (it's on a corner so he could clip a riders front wheel on the right/behind). During a race you never want to brake so it's understandable he didn't think to do it, especially when you're tired or the adrenaline is going you don't think quick enough.
Alan Braaa I think you’ve got that wrong. He made a really poor decision trying to shoot that gap, and I think he’s admitting it by submitting this footage. No defending it.
Rider 233 (in the red kit) connects with the rear wheel of Anonymous Rider. This takes both riders down. The front wheel of Anonymous Rider had nowhere to go, but was not the immediate cause of the crash.
Motogp riders have a full on leather kit to protect from any scratches on the asphalt, but with cyclinc they have reaaaally thin suits, and on a hot asphalt it can hurt like hell
hahaah we used to bang our front wheels on a guys rear wheel just to freak him out.Also dragged the heels of my cycling shoes which had metal taps on them. Metal on pave sound....
NorCal Cycling. You should have put spikes on your front wheel hub so that you can take out the other rider's wheel spokes (like the chariot race in Ben Hur)!
Because they are average joes. I’d you ever watch them ride on the street they have their full race bike and kit on, but sit and have a conversation with their ride partner for all 30 miles of their ride going as fast as someone on a Walmart 10 speed.
@@mrmidnight32 I refuse to be like that. Whenever I do find my bike in 2020 since all the shops are basically empty (looking for Trek Checkpoint ALR line), I will be using it to train when I need a break from running. Not biking 20 miles only to end up at some buffet line or bar.
Takes time when you're older. I took a 20 year break to raise kids correctly, them 1st. Came out the other side 1.5 times the man I was going in. Now slow metabolism and lower testosterone seem to prevent any meaningful physical gains (or losses). Love riding so I'll keep at it. You'll see if you don't ride like the guy in the video and survive.
Any type of track racing, whether it be bicycle, car, motorbike, trucks requires a level of patience... POV guy was clearly faster than the pack, why not wait a little to make the move, that'd have been quicker than being dumped off the bike and left laying on the floor whilst 40+ others go by him.
I agree with Robby H.. You can ride tomorrow instead laid down a week with cuts sore for few 10days . It pays to use your brake . plus you had no line .
Group riding is dangerous. Always assume the unexpected and make your presence known. I learned the hard way with motorcycles on track/race days, especially with mixed groups. Great to be aggressive but never assume you know what someone’s moves.
