My man was so excited to show off this beaut he ran at high speeds to set up his camera and upload this banger as fast as possible and drummed up a sweat.
Man, I just imagined Peter Griffin doing all that in your sentences and laughed so hard. 😂 Can't you just see him running around, all excited, trying to set up his camera and upload as fast as possible? Classic Peter move! 😆
Waking up and seeing you so hyped up and happy over tv tech makes me smile man, love you man! Never stop being you 💪❤️ Fun fact: I get sweaty over this stuff also, and I proud of that fact 😎👍
At first, when this guy said, there will be TV’s as good as a CRT, I didn’t actually believe him. But know, this is insane. Finally we have a tv that has the perfect motion clarity
Great find and awesome video man. Can't believe we had this level of BFI back then yet nobody talked about it. I would have bought this TV for gaming back then if only I just knew about it.
Sony also has even better rolling-scan tech in their OLED BVMs going back years now, rolling-scan OLED's are next level and 90% as good as CRTs, if rolling-scan was combined with 480Hz high-refresh rate Tandem-OLED panels it would actually outclass even the best last gen CRTs (even the FW900).
The poor response time of VA LCD is probably what causes the ghosting. My OLED laptop has a 120hz refresh rate but PWM at around 240hz (which works in a similar way to the feature on this TV) and UFO test looks noticably clearer when I dim the brightness so the PWM kicks in.
So it looks like normal backlight strobbing, big positive is 60hz and no major defects on the bottom, not bad at that low refresh rate. Its probably 1ms strobe what gives 1000Hz like . But 1080p i would go Dyac2 with much brighter and even shorter pulse like 0.5ms
Dang I still have my 55” w802a as the bedroom tv. I had it since new in 2014 because at the time it had the lowest input lag for gaming. I’m glad I been holding on to it.
This man is basically a display archeologist. But we need to get him future displays too. Someone out there with connections, this guy needs the 110 hisense and 115 tcl tv this year.
Nice video! I have a Sony 32W705B since 2014 or so, which has the same option but is called Led motion. But for me it flickers too much and is hurting my eyes after an hour or so. At that time it was a very nice setup for gaming with low input lag. But yeah there is ghosting with this VA panel and I found it not optimal when playing darker games like RE Village for example. I still have it but now I prefer to use Viewsonic XG2431 for gaming (strobbing on) and Pioneer 5090H plasma for movies. And i used CRT tech until last year (Sony F520) so I think we understand each other. :) I'm following your chanel for a long time but first comment! Thank you for your videos!
Hello Ariel. I have a question unrelated to the video. On the C3, is the ABL algorithm not aware of the brightness reduction of using BFI? I mean, the TV will reduce the brightness despite already being lower because of BFI which should had reduced the brightness to a point were the ABL shouldn't trigger?
If the scrolling scan is 30%, then the ABL tone mapping algorithm should work based on that, but I believe it doesn't and instead it would just unnecessary dim a "100%" white for no reason.
@@haewymetal He's talking about latency. Which is still very poor on this LCD, despite the good visual motion clarity, input response is still very low.
@@Wobble2007 60 fps doesn't have noticable gaps between frames. Motion blur can be used to hide it at 30 fps, but at around 60 fps it's already past that point. People can't notice gaps between frames at 60 fps. Of course 120 fps and the like and more do look smoother, but perceiving a difference in smoothness isn't the same as perceiving the gaps between frames. I'd say only for something like VR it's essential to have over 60 fps since having screens that close to your eyes and filling most of your vision can result in noticing things like that
wow dude you just destroyed my entire bipolar disorder I had. I thought that Im crazy. I have sony 1080p tv and used to play on my ps4 on it. Then I bough 4k tv and started to game on it and it felt so washed in motion after my sony full hd, I even had eye strain first few days. I always thought that it was due to 4k or something. now I have lgc2 and it feels and look amazing but still on my old sony it looks waay better in motion. But for sure I can se pixels on full hd and picture is really bad compared to LG. But I always thought it's in my head. Finally someone confirmed me I'm not crazy
Hey man, can you please tell me why my hdr analysis tool shows me max cll 10000 in games such as diablo4 and lords of the fallen 2 ? I have turned off all overlays and set windows hdr to 800 with HGIG and ingame sliders set to 800 ?
fun fact, I just check my email and saw that I bought this bad boy in 2014 from sony directly brand new for 653.24 shipped 47' model and I sold it still unopened in 2016 on mamazon for 1799. description was following... Condition note: brand new , factory sealed, (considered one of best gaming TV's, no lag, 17 ms) It was literally smitten within a day or so after I listed it and guess what 8 years later I kinda regret it still, especially after seing this video, money for nothing expirience is priceless ! :)
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 hey man, are you ever using Marseille HDMI cables (the ones that come with USB attached to them) Sometime I do, but I think they add input lag a bit, they eliminante jaggies, and push 720 to 1080i
It looks like it has the feature but it might not be as good www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/televisions-projectors-lcd-tvs/kdl-47w807a/specifications
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Yes a really interesting tv, i want it because of the 42 inches, but the s90c looks so good. Also what tips you would give me if i want to test it in person?
Are you talking about Sony Motion Flow technology? If so, it's existed for like one and a half decades at this point (Sony KDL-40Z5500 had it back in 2009).
@@plasmatvforgaming9648Yeah, its ancient lol. How is the input delay overall on your Sony TV with MotionFlow? I haven't watched the video (sorry), just dropping by since your channel is neat.
Hola hermano, yo tuve una Sony que también tenia Motionflow . Recuerdo que se podía poner incluso a 200hz la tv creando una config personalizada desde el panel de nvida pero solo a 1080p. En 4k solo era a max. 60hz. Pero no se veía con esa claridad. Me ha sorprendido la verdad . He probado ahora mismo con el monitor nuevo a 240hz y a 960 pixel/seg puedo ver también los ojos y bastante bien las pupilas y sin ghosting. Lo he puesto a 1920 pixels/seg y aunque no se ven las pupilas y los ojos como una foto aun se sigue viendo al alien y el ufo bastante claro, 0 ghosting . Lo bueno es que tengo un motion clarity muy parecido al de la C1 ( con BFI alto a 120hz ) pero no he de usar BFi y obtengo una imagen mucho más clara y brillante.
Oh I don't think I agree. I mean these strobed LCDs have been around forever. Clearly the motion resolution is higher on this. Those totally distinct eyes and the rest of the image. However, on my LG, CX in my case, I do think I can make out at least that there are 3 eyes/pupils, etc. It's already such a dramatic difference versus raw 60/120hz that I suspect returns from higher Hz are diminishing. I mean once you get to the point where the moving image is truly starting to resolve and away from the blurry mess that even 120Hz is otherwise... At least for me, it was the combination of OLED picture quality + the much clearer motion of this OLED (that the C1 also preserved at 120hz + rolling scan), that made the CX/C1 so exciting. And finally a screen to replace the FW900 as my daily driver, which I did last year.
I would prefer my CX at 60fps with BFI, even if the flicker is worse and my eyes are able to see the pupils nearly perfect "only" until 480pps. The ghosting/ crosstalk on the lcd would bother me more then a few pixels of motion blur at higher speeds. In shooters you aim at heads not on pupils. Rather 1 nearly clear head than 2 or 3 perfectly clear heads, I don't know which one to shoot at. 🤔🤔🤔
LCD is the way to go to achieve CRT-like motion clarity. Ultra short pulse backlight strobing can achieve a lot lower pixel visibility time than even the most aggressive black frame insertion seen on OLED screens. Combined with the fact that they usually go much brighter, I mean, can you imagine if this technology was used on a modern HDR Mini-LED panel with crazy peak brightness and lots of dimming zones? I have this PC monitor, the PG27VQ from 2017-ish, that I initially bought for 3D Vision, but that turned out to have a great motion option, ULMB, that allows very fine tuning of the backlight pulse, effectively arbitrating between brightness and motion clarity. Too bad it's not HDR, has poor contrast/black levels, because, due to its panel size and higher resolution, I actually use it more than my FW900.
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Yeah I'm curious about how that's possible (at least, without first interpolating the image to 120hz). I have "hacked" my PG27VQ to allow ULMB at 60hz, and the flicker is every bit as brutal as on a real CRT, however it mostly shows on bright backgrounds, if the image being displayed is mostly solid colors, of course I don't notice the flicker. When you look at current Mini-LED TVs, do you feel like you'd compromise and switch away from OLED if they had such options? Right now it's like this: -If I want HDR, screen size, and picture quality over motion clarity, I go for my LG OLEDs (GX and G1) But turning on motion pro is barely effective and ruins peak brightness. -If I need the best possible motion and the content don't have a lot of dark backgrounds, I go for my PG27VQ monitor. But it's 27" 1440p SDR only. -If I need the best possible motion clarity in content that have a lot of dark backgrounds, I go for my FW900. But it's 16 :10 24" ~1200p SDR only. I feel like a do-everything-well LCD is within reach, it's so frustrating.
How is this possible? Why doesn't Sony have this with its newest LCDs and OLEDs? I mean, this is basically plasma motion clarity, right? And what about 30 FPS? Does it also look clear at 30 FPS?
Make sure you disable the ambient light sensor, it will make the image brighter while motionflow is being used. Also the XBR-55X900A & XBR-65X900A (same TV, different sizes, 55in and 65in) are 4k and more modern than this, you'll get a brighter better picture.
No way we can get TVs and monitors like this anymore? I mean, without work arounds, like backlight strobing and anything similar. Just true/native motion clarity. We never will have it anymore?
You're 100% right about this and frankly I can't believe this technology is being ignored in favour of frame interpolation which adds latency and artefacts and only works with new games which the developer takes the time to provide motion vectors to the driver and exclude HUD elements. Now that LG has improved brightness with micro lenses and new panel, they should look at doing a scrolling black frame insertion or at least have an adjustable black frame duration slider where we can dial in exactly how much flicker we allow. Ideally it should have user adjustable curves like "attack, sustain, decay, release" and let the users make their own preset.
But this is a frame-interpolation tech, BFI still halves input-response (doubles latency), for BFI to have decent MPRT, you need to have a minimum of 360Hz BFI, which will give you the equivalent latency performance of 180Hz, or ideally 480Hz for the equivalent of 240Hz native latency/input-response, this isn't anything like a near perfect zero perceivable latency CRT, it has great visual motion-clarity (well along with ghosting/crosstalk), but visual motion and motion response are two different things entirely. BFI inserts a passive black frame every other cycle, and passive frames are of course non-responsive to user input, which is why input response is reduced by 50% for 1:1 BFI cadence, Blur Busters have a great article on the in and outs of BFI, his ultimate conclusion is that 480Hz RBFI is the point in which you start to see near CRT perceived motion response. But truthfully, only native brute force refresh rates with equal frame rates have full input-response performance, which is why 1000Hz OLED is the ultimate goal to achieve the magic 1ms MPRT.
@@Wobble2007 Who told you BFI doubles input latency? All it should do is reduce the "hold time" of the current frame. So if you're at 60hz 16ms per frame with a 50% hold time, frame is shown for 8ms then black image for 8ms. I'm not sure why this theoretically needs to add latency. The hold time should be user adjustable to accommodate each individual's tolerance of flicker. So I may choose to set it to 75% which is 12ms active and 4ms black image. With attack-sustain-decay envelope you could do things like gradually ramp up the brightness over 4ms, hold for 8ms, fade to black over 4ms.
@@Animal_lives_matter BFI inserts a passive black frame every other cycle, and passive frames are of course non-responsive to user input, which is why input response is reduced by 50% for 1:1 BFI cadence, Blur Busters have a great article on the in and outs of BFI, his ultimate conclusion is that 480Hz RBFI is the point in which you start to see near CRT perceived motion response. But truthfully, only native brute force refresh rates with equal frame rates have full input-response performance, which is why 1000Hz OLED is the ultimate goal to achieve the magic 1ms MPRT.
@@Animal_lives_matter BFI inserts a passive black frame every other cycle, and passive frames are of course non-responsive to user input, which is why input response is reduced by 50% for 1:1 BFI cadence, Blur Busters have a great article on the in and outs of BFI, his ultimate conclusion is that 480Hz RBFI is the point in which you start to see near CRT perceived motion response. But truthfully, only native brute force refresh rates with equal frame rates have full input-response performance, which is why 1000Hz OLED is the ultimate goal to achieve the magic 1ms MPRT.
@@Animal_lives_matter BFI inserts a passive black frame every other cycle, and passive frames are of course non-responsive to user input, which is why input response is reduced by 50% for 1:1 BFI cadence, Blur Busters have a great article on the in and outs of BFI, his ultimate conclusion is that 480Hz RBFI is the point in which you start to see near CRT perceived motion response. But truthfully, only native brute force refresh rates with equal frame rates have full input-response performance, which is why 1000Hz OLED is the ultimate goal to achieve the magic 1ms MPRT.
I have XF9005 (eu) / X900F (us) it has same motion clarity option. Its called Motion flow clarity. Put this on 1 and + 10bit 120hz 1080p (hdr) or 10bit 120hz 1440p (hdr). You can see the ufo alien eyes and almost 0 ghosting at 120hz. Its way better then my panasonic plasma ST60 (best plasma u can have) even with the plasma overclocked. Side by side its just better in everything.
I only play in 4k and there is no way in hell I'm going to go out and pay half the price of my LG C2 again for, this.... thing. I'll stick with my old massive JVC CRT.
I have a couple of the Sony TV's with this motion tech, whilst I would never want to game on them personally, due to ghosting, poor input response and latency, blacks that don't come near CRTs perfect blacks or greyscale performance, poor viewing angles and colour-volume (relative to CRTs & OLED) and so on, the usual short falls that LCDs have, motion clarity is a big one but only one of many box's that need to be ticked to get anywhere near a CRT, but what I do love them for is watching video content, especially animation, as the clear motion really can give it that amazing CRT clarity for watching TV shows and films, especially classic TV shows, for this reason I have one setup in the bedroom, I do use it for some more casual games like Fifa, it's great for 20 mins of Fifa now and then, even though the input response isn't anywhere near CRT grade. What I would like to do however, is put two of the 4K panels together to create a custom Dual-LCD panel, which will mean OLED level blacks and even better greyscale than OLED, a massive increase in contrast, I would also combine it with a OSSC Pro for good multi-resolution handling and integer scaling, as well as the scan-line generator, so that I can really get legacy video looking as good as possible and even some games might worth then be playing on it too, it will be a great way to get a really cheap better than OLED TV with near perfect 60Hz motion resolution, better than OLED for watching video content I mean, obviously OLED is still far better for gaming on thanks to instant pixels and low latency & input response, and CRT is even better than OLED (Plasma being a great comprimise between OLED and CRT for gaming).
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 40ms is quite noticeable to me. Anything over and games are just not as enjoyable. Even if you dont realise why. Have u still got a crt?
It's frame interpolation and is a feature on tons of TVs from this era (I have a Samsung from 2009 that has it with "120hz"). It causes a massive "soap opera" effect (look it up if you don't know what that refers to) so the smoothness looks oddly unnatural. Latency is massive when this is turned on as it relies on frames before and after a given point, then fills it in.
TVs are not good for gaming buy 32 inch OLED 240hz monitor or any IPS monitor TVs are trash just try I was like you thinking TVs are good for gaming until I tried a monitor
These may not be good for gaming, but the good motion clarity makes them brilliant for watching classic TV shows and films, as well as modern animation, try watching the show Invincible on one of these Sony TV's, it looks so good thanks to the great motion resolution.
@Wobble2007 CRT is perfect for gaming because there's zero processing TVs in game mode have some processing which will throttle after a short period even if you are playing at 120fps you feel it laggy and not smooth CRT and monitors are excellent for gaming
@@othman0077 Yeah I use my LaCie Blue IV 22 and Sony G520 as my and PC gaming monitor, and my Sony PVM-20M4E with my MiSTer, I also have a Panasonic SR Acuity 36 inch and a brand new 25" presentation monitor CRT, plus some other amazing CRTs, nothing bats them for gaming, though I also love my Pioneer Kuro 500M.
@@othman0077 Yeah I use my LaCie Blue IV 22 and Sony G520 as my and PC gaming monitor, and my Sony PVM-20M4E with my MiSTer, I also have a Panasonic SR Acuity 36 inch and a brand new 25" presentation monitor CRT, plus some other amazing CRTs, nothing bats them for gaming, though I also love my Pioneer Kuro 500M.
@@othman0077 Yeah I use my LaCie Blue IV 22 and Sony G520 as my and PC gaming monitor, and my Sony PVM-20M4E with my MiSTer, I also have a Panasonic SR Acuity 36 inch and a brand new 25" presentation monitor CRT, plus some other amazing CRTs, nothing bats them for gaming, though I also love my Pioneer Kuro 500M.
