This was definitely the WORST Smash game. 

Mf's that say "Ultimate is the worst smash game" and people that be like "Steve>B4yonetta" have never played Smash 4. Smash 4 walked so Ultimate could run.

Coney really said "We gotta go back to Nintendo only" and then proceeded to name like 4 Nintendo products to remove from the game

I don’t believe that Coney was minding his own business. In fact, I know that he was actually doing the complete opposite.

i really hate the trend in media where after a few years people just start spam tweeting "can we all finally admit this wasn't (insert bad or good)"

In samsh 4 everyone was a hamster and died in the most unique and unexpected ways which sucks competively but has a certain charm to it

For those who didn’t watch the stream this was an hour long discussion and wasn’t even supposed to be the main focus of the stream

What’s this? A Twitch only coney rant on RU-vid? We truly are in the end times fellas

My friend tried getting me into becoming a pro at Smash 4, but I didn't want to do it. The cycle was repetitive as hell, no matter which character I played. Up air ladder this, short hop nair that, grab into up air this, play Bayonetta that. Eventually, I got to a point where I had a pocket Cloud that literally everyone can have after playing him for half a minute and I realized that I had to stop playing the game.

I remember people gaslighting that Smash 4 was going to live as long as Melee, what was funny was once Ultimate came out, everyone moved on to Smash Ultimate, and never spoke of Smash 4 again.

I want Luigi to be slippery again. In both Smash 4 and Ult he would just kill you, but in smash 4 he would do it in a wacky zany way. He’s too efficient now

3:55 what an amazing edit, Coney being the ring girl and Hbox screaming in terror. Honestly going back and looking at Smash 4, game was good, but quite a lot of jank and wackiness that was fun to watch happen, that I feel like could he used in Ultimate. ... but damn glad we don't have to play ut anymore

13:51 Mr.R was legit in smash 4. That's why it was so crazy when Leo beat him at smash factor. I actually first heard about Leo cuz he beat Mr.R. I was a huge doubter of Leo because he was a 15 year old kid claiming to be number 3 in the world. At the time the thought was Sure he beat Mr.R but there were still a lot of big dawgs hed still have to get past. Now look at Leo. Hes one of the best to ever do it.

I love 4, but I know there's some VERY STRONG nostalgia goggles going on. Smash 4 is the only Smash game I've really gotten into, and that's because all my friends at school brought their 3DS's and we'd have mini Smash tournaments before school and during lunch.

The first mistake was going on Twitter

I will say this... Going back to Smash 4 casually, (the way Sakurai intended it to be played) it is still the most fun I have ever had playing a Smash game. It's just so broken in the best way possible.

Wow the production value, we even got a new thumbnail face. Editors going kinda foolish on this random stream segment

Based coney for saying it doesn’t matter if the single player content is good, if I’m playing a fighting game of any kind I want the fighting to be good first and foremost, single player and side content don’t matter nearly as much if the game isn’t enjoyable to play

Customs in smash 4 were goated

My smash 4 nostalgia is entirely from smash run on 3DS, but also despite how much time I had put in it I never did get all the custom moves.

About the better shields thing, replaying a bit of Smash 4 last weekend, I was surprised by how much more shield pushback there was, likely due to the drastically lower traction. Spacing aerials with Ike seemed way safer despite their higher landing lag due to the opponent being pushed away more. Like landing F-Air felt way easier to space safely.

The M in ProjectM stands for "My, oh my, this game is based"

2:40 Ban every non-Nintendo character BUT keep Snake and change almost nothing about him (just like the Brawl to Ultimate transition) because it would be funny.

i miss smash 4 falcon. and smash 4 ganon upsmash. and c stick nair, and perfect pivots, and not having to deal with the short hop macro. yes the game was massively flawed but i miss many things about it

it's so weird to me that everyone agreed that smash4 is the most volatile smash game where people lost their stocks to cheese at sub-50 percents all the time but nobody wanted to make the call to switch to a 3-stock meta. l get that the game itself was pretty slow-paced, but it now if you get cheesed it's half your game down the drain which seems a bit excessive for how common it was to get cheesed

“No other character could kill you at 0 off a jab” - Coney Talking About Smash 4 Bayonetta…. Steve and Kazuya literally do that…

I personally love Smash 4. It's what got me into competitive Smash before Ultimate got me out of it. All the games in the series do things right and wrong, and the rights in 4 just felt better to me. Was it a balanced game? Not damn shot. Was it a game where characters actually had combos even if some of them were cheesy as hell (I'm looking at you Mario uptilt into itself 30 times)? Absolutely. I think if you took the tiny bit more serious balancing (lul) that Ultimate had and put it into Smash 4 with 30 less characters you could have the best game in the series. That said I'm a Robin player so I have a lot of bias towards the game that introduced my main and also let me combo into super crazy shit/actually use projectiles to punish shielding unlink Ultimate which is just gimmick central featuring non-stop aerials.

During Smash 4, my local was trying to encourage me to go pro (even the Melee guys), I didn't. I didn't want to deal with Cloud all day, and be forced to use my secret pocket Cloud when I lost game 1. Then Bayo happened. Even with its problems with proper tweaking I think you could turn Smash 4 into a good game.

The editor actually went hard on making a discussion from stream into this video, so mad props to them. Hope we see more videos like this

I 100% agree PM is peak, you get the fast pacing of melee, a bunch of tech, but the easier learning curve and lesser hitstun of brawl. It's an absolutely beautiful game. (also ledge hogging still exists which is amazing)

seeing mr. con con in s4 is so weird, i ran into the dude at LMMM 2022 and he farmed my ass and i didn’t know who tf he was until way later

One of my favorite nicknames for Sm4sh when it was still current was "Super Down-throw Bros.", because down-throw really was the start of SO many strings for SO many characters for some reason. The "hoo-hah" with Diddy Kong and Mario down-throw -> up-tilt x50 being just the two most infamous examples.

Oh I KNOW you're not hating on the extra content in a smash game, I am going to up smash a kremlin in Smash Run while a forces of nature turret tries to blast me and a darknut looms behind me......holy retro moment

Counterpoint: competitive smash 4 was during my formative years. No rebuttals accepted past this point

As a casual player, all I know is that I cant fucking stand Ultimate's online and yet I was able to play Smash 4's online up until Ultimate came out. For fun and For Glory are way way better fucking systems than elite smash ever was. Ultimate online is a toxic cesspool reinforced with an absolute awful netcode and terribly designed online system where if you aern't looking for sweaty try hard 1v1s, want to play ANY of the fun casual modes or you haven't played for a little while and aern't on your absolute A game you're fucking sweet out of luck. All Ultimate has going for it is the big boy roster that gets you real excited when you think about its existence, but my god does the game fucking suck as hard as humanly possible if you ever try and play it online. I could go on for hours about how much I fucking hate Ultimate's online and how it ruined Ultimate for me.

Smash 4 was a game where like half the viable characters had some fairly consistent cheese to kill you below 20%, and it was played on two stocks. A wonderfully unserious competitive experience.

PM being the best is a based take

I absolutely refuse to be gaslit into thinking endgame smash 4 was any sort of fun to play in

I was a smash 4 defender for a long time, but when I started playing ultimate it just opened my eyes to how bad smash 4 was. People say DLC ruined the game? NAH! That game had some of the dumbest and most ridiculous things to play around. People forget that bowser and dk played exactly the same yet everyone (including me at the time) got hyped to see the same cargo throw into up air or upthrow into upair combo again and again and again. People will forget that you could not be considered a solid character unless you were DLC if you didnt have a strong grab game because of how broken shield was. People act like perfect pivots was this amazing thing, even though 90% of the competitive player base never even bothered to use it because it was incredibly impractical in majority of situations outside of a couple. Ultimate is just so much better and no matter what Mr.R says I will not be gas lit into thinking it was a good game

I feel like I was lied to with PM, I always had the impression that PM was the competitively balanced one and then I played it and that’s not true. It’s a lot of fun but like damn

shoutouts to the editor for the based Persona 1 music

Y’all prefer Smash 64 or Smash 4?

Main thing for me with smash 4 is that not only did it feel bad to play competitively, but there was nothing to do casually. Brawl has subspace, melee has adventure mode, ultimate has world of light (and even if you dont like world of light because it sucks, at least the gameplay is smooth). Meanwhile, smash 4 had a crappy mario party knock off, and collectable custom moves that took way too long to unlock.

I think the worst part about smash 4 is how unsatisfying it was to play, hitting a combo felt like working a 9-5

I do have a certain level of nostalgia for Smash4 because it was the first I took seriously. Well, "seriously" back on my 3DS as a teenager in highschool, but I put some mad hours into the game. I think I'll say Melee is still the best competitive Smash game to exist. I don't think anyone can argue after Ultimate's DLC lame characters, but I'd still rank Smash4 as one of the most fun for me. Although I still think I hold that opinion specifically because of Steve, Kazuya and Sonic in Ultimate. If we didn't have really lame characters in Ultimate, I probably wouldn't be saying this. I'd take Smash4 Cloud over the meta we currently have in Ultimate.

Oh fuck I forgot the servers shut down, I'm so sad!

Since when was 4 the worst smash game? 64 is literally right here.

It’s simultaneously frustrating and refreshing to see Coney be the one to answer a question with “I don’t fucking care.” Like, at least he’s fucking honest instead of pulling some sort of take out of his ass.

PM IS THE BEST SMASH GAME 🎉🎉🎉

Of course everyone is saying this game is dogshit now despite loving it when it was still the latest Smash game. Can't wait for this to happen with Ultimate once Smash 6 comes out.

Mullet coney in thumbnail 😭😭😭

PM MENTIONED 🎉🎉🎉🎉

SSF2>>>>SM4SH

2:40 Annnnnd I stop watching the video now.

I think the real moral of the story is that we can never be happy or satisfied with life

Not only is it the worst one, but it doesn’t even have its own real identity. Ultimates is having a ton of characters and Brawl’s is being Uber-casual. Smash 4 is in a gross limbo that makes it even harder to remember fondly for the positives

I remember our region tried to revive Smash 4 a little bit a couple times and every time we played it after not touching it for around a year we all remembered how terrifying the game was. It really felt like you could just die to anything out of nowhere but also if that didn't happen you lived forever.

I will say for Smash 4 at least had more viable characters compared to brawl until Bayonetta came out. People are now saying brawl is the most balanced game out of the old smash games and yet so many characters were dogshit in general in that game. Just because they're all bad compared to Meta Knight doesn't mean each of them are properly balanced otherwise.

“smash 4 has more sauce than ultimate” “No smash 4 is unbalanced and bad!” Doesn’t matter Uncle Ben, Project M is better than both of them

One thing i remember from smash 4 finals on evo sunday was staff walking around the stadium waking people up 😂

As a Melee player who started with Ultimate, I notice that a lot of Ultimate/Sm4sh players are very squeamish about the idea of dying at low percents. However this is so strange to me as I've been playing and watching hundreds and hundreds of melee sets where you will miss your ledgedash at 0 or get shine spiked at 10% and people just shrug it off. Is it just the number of stocks? Or is extreme risk just not as tolerated as a potential in the newer smash games

Smash 4 is the best Smash game and it’s not even close. I’m 100% serious. Character expression is crazy, movement was beautiful, and the jank kept you on your toes during the entire game. Plus why are people acting like jank isn’t fun? That shit will make up for a different scenario 24/7 and keep the game interesting. Besides, the combos were way, way cooler than Ult. Genuinely haven’t seen many draw-dropping combos in Ult at all, whereas there’s many in Smash 4. Watch a Zenyou highlight reel from Smash 4 for example - shit like that will never happen in Ultimate as the game is so much less fluid. The top tiers and storylines were also 100x cooler than Ult (except Bayo, sure, but Ult has Steve). I genuinely don’t understand the hate Smash 4 gets

It’s crazy how fun Sm4sh was when Sheik, Diddy and ZSS got nerfed and there was no Cloud and Bayo. Or even when it was just Cloud he was fun and not impossible to beat like Bayo was. Her release ruined the game

7:14 The character expression issue is something Smash struggles with in general. Characters feel super formulaic when they aren’t doing one-to-one moves from their games and it starts to become a quantity over quality issue when you have characters like Ganon sharing animations with Ike and Cloud for some reason. Other platform fighters like Rivals and NASB try to give more player expression with a more limited roster, the former doing so with each character having unique interactions with the stage and how they control space and the latter doing so with the whole meter system. I truly think the only way Smash could evolve past this is by redoing the entire roster move-wise and cutting it at least in half for the next game.

All right, let's adress this. While i highly enjoy pre-dlc smash 4 (looking at you bayonetta) i can admit the game has some fcked up flaws, rage mechanic being horribly broken is an example, however, so as people seem to point at 4 flaws the same people seem to ignore ultimate ain't a perfect game either. "Oh wow bayonetta killed me at 0% 4 is so thrash!" And yet ultimate is filled with 0 to death characters such as luigi and kazuya, and while you may point out kazuya being hard in execution makes up for it, it doesn't erase the fact it is a pretty flawed gameplay philosophy. What im trying to come with this is that people jump quick to sh*t on 4 but apparently ultimate doesn't recieve such harsh treatment, is it really that much of an improvement over 4 or yall just like it cuz is the new game?

“sonic can stay”-Coney last night after the multiverses rant

Nah brawl was the worst

I miss smash 4. I miss fox fair footstool, ding dong, normal getup resets, low input delay, customs. It’s just so funny

13:08 What? Did ryu have j.Lk in 4, he doesn't have that in ult, right?

No way Smash 4 is worse than Brawl.

Smash4 isnt the worst smash game but it's definitely the most fucked up

Sonic won so much people gashlit themselves in thinking 4 wasn't Crazy shit 2:40 who would have though that without a broken character Sonic actually can win ... yeah i Hope he stays and gets a move reworks lol

"He's an Ape character." XD

as a community we should just take it into our own hands and only play the game that we made ourselves

Fun Protogen Fact: Both smash 4 and smash ult have ways to instantly kill your opponent, and of the char in ultimate doesn't have a one shot they have a tod. We've gone from everyone killing you with one to two taps to death combos and tech chases that lead to death on ledge if played right! Silly Protogen out!

Im not going to lie watching these smash 4 clips made me feel ill. Like genuinely exhausting stuff. Think I might need to break from smash knowing that we’ll be looking at ultimate the same way

Me when I lie

Sm4sh had some dumb mechanics and balance that ruined the game, but damn did it have great storylines that made it hype. Sm4sh also did have some cool reverse hitbox, combos, and movement compared to Ult.

I don't have a problem with smash 4 on its own. I just think up until ultimate, every smash game kinda felt like a hard reset on mechanics/graphics/interactions to an extent, where every game looked and felt pretty drastically different, but then when you get to ultimate it feels like it built a lot more directly off of 4. It's only natural to feel like 4 is being directly outclassed at that point because, well, it is. It's not that the game was bad in a vacuum, but that ultimate was made to make direct, arguably objective, improvements to the game, to the point where it makes you think "why would I ever go back to playing 4." And it succeeded, but at the cost of feeling like 4 didn't have an identity of its own to offer the overall series. Though, outside of just the competitive experience, I will always vouch for 4 having arguably the best janky casual gameplay available. People using dumb custom moves as well as the equipment system was always a lot more interesting and diverse than the spirit system currently allows for. Everyone always had all kinda of gear unique to themselves and hundreds of dumb janky builds that would culminate into stupid clusterfucks of games where anything could happen. Everything felt "viable" given the statistical tradeoffs or if nothing else a lot of very silly effects were available such as ones that made characters floatier that were just neat to mess around with. Under the spirit system you basically just can't use 90% of all spirits without getting stat checked by the high end spirits and the availability of everything led to a lot of samey builds and gameplay that wasn't nearly as interesting imo. It's not much and it's definitely nostalgia pilled but I'd argue it could overtake brawl as "the casual smash game," if nothing else, if you really got into just how much you could do.

2:40 I would be ABSOLUTELY okay with this, or at least keep it to a minimum. I know he’s talking from a competitive perspective but i kinda miss when Smash was just “Nintendo Universes collide”

Something about the coinbox smash 4 tourney bugged me and that is: while Bayo was OP in smash 4 I think it was a poor idea to ban her for the smash 4 coinbox. If smash 4 was actively played still then sure the competitive scene might be better without her. However if you have a one off tourney to fool around in an old smash game it seems like a waste not to get the full experience cause it's to see the fun wacky shit again. It would be the same deal if you ran a brawl event but banned meta knight. A ton of people want to play/see MK/Bayo to see/experience the BS again or for the 1st time if a one off event like this is held. Also aside but every time Mr. Concon is brought up I remember the classic k9 quote "fuck outta here CONCON"

The internet hasn't realized that there are 9 jajillion opinions on the internet and that 8.9 jajillion of them are the incorrect one

Look I want BnBs from throws back, the ability to pressure and cross you up in shield without you just spamming an aerial out of shield cause everyone has a 3 frame jump squat, make roll laggier, less input lag, proper 2-framing, less i-frames on air dodge, neutral getups, and make teching (especially on a platform) not a death sentence. I used to lovc playing zss in smash 4, pressuring peoples getup options from ledges was such a mind game, hold the ledge to long i'd trumph to back air, nuetral getup and not shield down smash into flip kick. As much as we harp on smash 4 for being too defensive, i'd argue smash ultimate's OoS options just make it even easier to just turtle back and play reactive rather than predictive.

I played so much Smash 4 on 3DS and really enjoyed it. I did start with Brawl before Smash 4 and the Ultimate. At first I didn't think Ultimate felt much different... until I returned to Smash 4 after some weeks of Ultimate and Good God these are different games. Even at my semi-casual level it is impossible to ignore. Smash 4 is so slow and trying to understand if something will kill after getting used to Ultimate is near impossible. I do miss Smash 4 being good for my Toon Link and Marth though.

Song name at 0:44

Thank God Coney is here to do a Sajam Injustice 1 style video for the dumbest game in the history of anything ever. Remember the people trying to run tournaments on 3DSes??

and yet smash 64 exists

Can we keep Hero though

People who play the newer smash games are so weird to me. They will die on the hill that the current smash game is the best, they said it when Brawl was out, then everyone quit and moved to Sm4sh and said Brawl was horrible, then said Sm4sh was so good, then when Ult came out they said Sm4sh was Tr4sh. It's cool if you like the new ones, but why does it take a new smash game to come out for people to admit their game isnt perfect?

MR YEET MENTIONED LETS FUCKING GO

That mario RPG song comes on and i can barely focus on Coney anymore it becomes a rhythm game in my mind its awesome

Smash 4 had the portability aspect, amiibo support, 8 player support

To the editor: but maybe tekken 7 WAS better? Season 1? SEASON 2? that's the good stuff

I absolutely love and hate the game. I played it on 3DS for glory religiously during the first few months, and I had actually managed to get 3rd place at my college local’s my first semester with Little Mac (this was fall 2015, before Cloud and Bayo dropped). This is funny because this was the only smash 4 event the original Kutztown University gamers club held, and the current e-sports club has produced a slew of talented ultimate players, including C-, who is one of the best players in all of Pennsylvania. As of now, it’s my least favorite smash game, but going back and streaming online play before the servers went down felt fun, if only for nostalgia sake. Assuming smash con does happen this year (it hasn’t been confirmed yet so I’m hoping it happens), I plan on entering the brackets for Brawl and 64 since they had the lowest turnout last year, but I have no desire to enter any type of serious smash 4 tournament.

I like Sm4sh more than Ultimate, but that’s only because I’m a dumb Sm4sh Toon Link main who can’t figure out how to glide toss in Ultimate.

Personally I think every smash game is better than the one that came before it. That being said smash 4 is actually still mine and many of my friends favorite, even though I believe ultimate is better I don't like playing it... And after the years of not playing it and trying other platform fighters I just realized I like it the most it does what I want out of a platform fighter 🤷 I find that I'm okay with dealing with BS on characters if I have some lol (I'm a zss main and ultimate zss makes me miserable lol)

This editor is popping off, good work

it's weird to see some younger folks just don't understand just how awful it really was. you truly have to know to know

All things considered, I liked smash 4. It’s definitely flawed but if I could turn back time to play it I definitely would. One thing I’d say it had going for it is the online; best in any smash game, which isn’t saying much but I still had fun 😂

Smash 4 is better than Brawl :(

guess who isn’t high this time everyone! it’s me I am not high