"I feel like I live in bizarro world where people are like 'This game does too much damage, everybody's just exploding, this sucks, but I would love it if they put Slayer & ABA in the game'." - Sajam
@@Z1nZin in a game with high damage they didn't need to amp his up to make him high damage. They also gutted bdc so they are fine changing important things about him. Finally, he wouldn't be particularly egregious if he didn't also get one of the best mix up games.
@@qspec2002 What i mean is, slayer without damage and mixup wouldn't be slayer. (hell, we already have johnny without coins \o/) He's here now, you guys gotta cope.
Going by his history, Goldlewis next patch will get damaged by his own drone, which only goes half screen at best now, and Security Gauge will have to be manually charged like a DBFZ Ki Charge. In the season after this, drone will become an invisible low and landing 2P will deposit $500 into the player's bank account.
My favorite part is when my opponent (Slayer) guesses right once and I try to alt-f4, but I'm dead by the time I reach the keys on my keyboard (I am in immense pain).
At a high level of play, on all characters, on the current version of Strive I'd be really interested to see the statistics of how often the player that gets the first non-blocked hit wins, how often the player that gets the first counter hit wins, or how often the character that gets the first hit regardless of if its blocked or not wins.
@@jotarojoestar5123 there were 3 happy chaos players in CEO top 8 that’s happening right now. He is the best tournament character in the game right now.
Thing about Goldlewis is that his big damage starters make more sense as big damage starters. You see him hit those CHs and you're like, "yeah I can see that." Slayer taps you and then just ends up chunking out 80%
its almost like ASW didn't really care about the high damage complaints at launch, and made offenses and damage incredibly insane as the game went on to spite everyone
Slayers damage is absurd. His "big damage" made more sense in Xrd because he had to actually hit counter hits for his optimal combos. Slayer in Strive doesn't need to use BDC, doesn't even really need to fish for counter hits, gets rewarded for any touch, he can rc twice in a single combo and still do shit ton of damage.
Literally. I think slayers mixups are cool and can (emphasis on can) be fun to play against but losing 60% of your health from one mistake makes me want to cry and put the controller down.
Mistake is too generous a word. Mappa punch from full screen just makes me not want to play testament anymore. The only good thing about slayer is that I know for a fact he won't stay the same in season 4.
doesn't have to be a mistake. Just like you said, Mappa Hunch and Super Mappa Hunch are "punishing" basic pressure strings rather than punishing actual mistakes. Getting CH as Slayer is so easy due to how huge, disjointed and advantageous his buttons are. And let's not even talk about his meter gain. All of those by themselves would be completely fine, I like characters with great offensive kits, problem is that due to how much damage does a simple wrong guess lead to, fighting him does not feel fun anymore, losses feel unfair and victories do not seem earned. This toxic mindset made me lose interest in FPS games, and now I feel the same way when I play against Slayer, so I avoid him
@@user-mc5pl6xk9x Honestly that’s really fair. I’ve been slowly losing interest in strive and Slayer is not helping. I’m just gonna take a break until next year for Elena in SF6, maybe Dizzy will drop by then
They certainly should buff him, but once again I expect Arcsys to give minimal buffs, like making some random move that’s not optimal for ending strings give HKD, or slightly improving some moves with minimal impact. It’s a shame, because there are so many ways in which they could choose to feed into his mechanics and lore. My absolute long-shot dream buff would be error state persisting and continuing to count down while blocking, even if I logically understand it that would be more busted than S2 HC. Having error state pause in blockstun, however, could be more reasonable, letting him stay in disadvantage but giving him a skill-based way to capitalize and extend his turn afterwards. I really wish Delilah could do something, I’ve imagined a move similar to Leo’s backturn 214K where Delilah beelines towards the opponent and latches onto their leg, and while they try to pry her off, Bedman? follows up with a laser from wherever he is on screen. I’ve seen a lot of cool ideas in the community as well, from errors giving armour in some way (on release, while held, when manually cashed out) or having a new special that cycles your stored error from !P -> !S -> !H and could be automatically followed up by 214P/214K, which could add some more creativity to neutral (having access to chain explosion in neutral is so nice) Yeah, I wish Bedman? had a bit more love for sure.
25:35 this is exactly why I main this game, but rarely watch tournaments past pools. The loop as you just described it is high key boring af to watch even when the GG God's are doing it. Ngl tho, since my skill is mid, the game is still hella fun to play.
I just want to say that i showed a clip of a match that i played (sin vs slayer) to a co worker who doesn't even play fighting games and he was genuinely shocked at how much damage slayer did
Thank God Hitoshi said this. This is literally the thing I’ve been complaining about day 1 of Slayer dropping. His kit is fine, but I feel like the dmg is over the top. Everyone wanted to call me a shit player for having that take bc “all strive characters do a lot of dmg.” But now I can rest easy knowing that I’m not just insane
me: slayer do too much damage, it too stronk. internet: git gud. slayer dandy, he did dmg before it's cool now. pro: slayer do too much damage, it too stronk. internet: you're so damn right. slayer does do too much damage, i can see clearly now the rain is gone.
I think the best way to explain it is that Slayer does too much damage too easily. I play May, I don't get to complain about characters chunking out 80% in one combo. I *do* get to complain about characters chunking out 80% in one non-CH, midscreen, meterless combo.
It is the first game of the franchise that I played, I didn't understand why everyone ignored the obvious problems saying "But it's dandy" as if it mattered. I mean, I think there's something wrong when the character who literally stops time can't stop Super Mappa Punch. You literally touch a button and you die.
@@YoungYoung95 All he needs to do that dmg is land a couple of blocked hits and your risc gauge goes through the roof. Just go into the game, find the most damaging meterless midscreen combo and crank the risc gauge a bit. For Slayer, it's easy to land a good CH, easy to build your risc gauge, get meter or corner carry ON BLOCK, meaning you don't even need to learn midscreen conversions as Slayer when the corner is always yours. And when you get stuck in the corner, just P Dandy Step. It's that easy
Im still having the time of my life with slayer I haven't felt this powerful since season 1 sol As far as the patch being at the end of july tho and mostly focused on probably nerfing wild assault, that doesnt feel good. We needed this patch over two months ago
Season 3 has left me burnt out a bit on strive. paying for a season pass only to get two characters that resemble their previous iterations is not fun. Johnny and Elphelt got needlessly butchered and it hurts to see them like this. hopefully arc system works can make some interesting changes to make the characters fun? but i know deep down that is just coping since when characters like Sin got better, it did not bring him back to his core roots of eating. The Good news is i still find Strive fun to Casually play with friends, and I have been falling in love again with the older games now that I have developed hand eye coordination from music and other games, meaning i can enjoy the shit out of XRD Johnny to scratch that itch. My Dream changes would be to remove Hard Knock down from wild assault wall break and positive bonus giving burst back like Hotashi said. these have been issues i have not been a fan of since day one. if i would add more changes i would tone down or remove the damage modifiers from positive bonus to stop the game from snowballing so much (Positive bonus gives a 10% Damage buff and a 10% resistance buff, meaning its easier to win more and harder for the opponent to come back just because you broke wall) i would also like air gattlings to be changed a bit so we can have some more cool air based combos on some characters. even if they changed Johnny to a Zoner without cards i feel like a nice gimmie would be to have his old air combos come back and landing air deal for a one hit knockdown. Either way, here is to some changes in July, and im willing to bet that the next character that will start off season pass 4 is going to be Dizzy.
Slayer + how easy it is to generate resource I think is the problem. When they fix resource I think the game will feel much better, including going vs SL and GL. In fact I hope that's pretty much all they do, and let that marinate for a few months.
I still do not understand how for around a year we have just had top tier characters who are either perfect specimens with 0 actual weaknesses (sol, sin, Leo, ky, may) or characters who literally do not play matchups (nago and goldlewis, soon to be slayer). I was insanely happy to see the design with asuka, somehow they created a character who has that spell system that allows him to do all that and he was neither horrible or insanely broken, instead just really good (the supers are insanely bs tho). Somehow they went from that to having me go to a 20% win rate in a round if I get clipped by far slash into whatever bullshit orange fart unless I’m playing someone who orange farts or white shits my way to victory. Even in average celestial shit is awful, I genuinely watched a friend who was hard stuck floor 7 (is bronze in sf6 and B in granblue) pick up ky and in 3 months he got to celestial because he found out how to do wild assault combos and then do either stundipper rc or dust rc. What this tells me is that wa is just a broken concept as a whole. It can be abused at any intermediate or lower advanced level of play and at top level? New goldlewis top players got birthed into existence. I cannot believe it has been almost a year of this and that evo is going to be played on this patch. I’m not sure if rang13 is going but I hope to god he goes because he will probably win
I (as a dirty slayer main) think that if (or should i say "when" perhaps) arcsys going to nerf slayer's damage they should in exchange slightly buff his backdash, because 7 frames of invul on a backdash which last for 28 frames feels unbelievably bad.
I can see all the dandy step follow-ups getting more scaling and pilebunker getting a damage reduction to account for pilebunker loops, like if he couldn't loop pilebunker his damage would be reasonable-ish for strive but the side-effect of a natural sliding knockdown has allowed for pilebunker loops and since ASW keeps cool looking things the loops are definitely going to stay but pilebunkers base damage and scaling on all dandy step follow ups are all going to be touched.
34:57 There are way to many people in the FGC today that are far to quick to internalize the options of others rather than playing the game and observing their own experience. The overwhelming majority of people who loudly complain use talking points only present at a level so far beyond where they are.
Yeah making 2 mistakes against a slayer and dying for it is really unfun. I play for fun , and fighting slayer isn't fun, so I don't accept matches against slayers anymore. Is what it is
the dumbest thing about sol rn other than wild assault imo is br rc; high/low/throw on block, convert off of anything extremely easily, combo into hvv inti wallbreak when youre anywhere near the corner. it makes it way too easy to stick to people during positive bonus and theres no way anyone is guessing correctly between frametraps and br giving a 50/50 into more plus frames when his turn would ordinarily be over. i honestly love playing sol, but it feels bad thinking “yeah if i guess wrong on offense i can just get a 50/50 into a combo and if thats wrong its still my turn and doing anything else is kind of sub optimal”, but maybe im stupid and this is all just a me thing
@@lilacrain3283 thats very much true, ig im just biased because i play sol due to everything else about him and dont like feeling as if im shooting myself in the foot for not just spending 50 meter to do an unseeable high/low into wallbreak every time
"all he needs to do is touch you one time and its over, and i dont understand why we had to have a character like this" respectfully, i do not want to hear those words from a nago player
@@Hotashi maybe not as consistently as slayer but he can definitely land combos that do like 60-70%. plus he has a way stronger checkmate situation with cmd grab and wwa to boot.
@@insuranceagency5200 80% of the cast can do 60% combos and they dont go into blood rage for it, the only thing you're right about is wwa being broken, but thats not exclusively a nago problem
Yes, Nago can one shot characters like testament and there will be more chances. He will be capable of killing you before the blood range is filled. I need him to command grab twice or at least once.
I think his meter gain is also ridiculous, and his reward for having 50 meter is fucking ludicrous. Haven't played consistently since Slayer was released since it was just Pot vs Slayer which I find to be super unfun. There were a million Slayers walking around but honestly I don't have any motivation to keep playing again given the current state of things. Hopefully the patch will shake things up a bit with WA.
@@metalllich3493 That's not my point, I can win the matchup just fine but it's just not fun to me, and since that was pretty much the only matchup during Slayers release I stopped playing.
fighting slayer feels like trying to have a ski race uphill, where you have normal skis and, depending on your character, some sort of rocket propulsion (someone like zato has one bottle of coke and mentos), while slayer has anti graviti skis; of course it comes down to who can ski better, but the fact that absolutely no effort is required from slayer's part is astonishing. edit: goldlewis has teleport skis
Im waiting to get my fight stick mini for ps5 so i can actually play the ps5 version, im picking up axl after being out of the game for 8 months, i heard slayer is a good matchup for axl?
Slayer is just frustrating to fight; especially because of shit like 2h, he can just gamba and if he gets you once he is probably gonna win. The extra annoying part is the effort for that damage isnt there; cs>6h>pile wallsplat does like 50% to anyone
6:09 translation "Oops I got outplayed and now my opponent is getting rewarded for playing well" also do Bridget next! You hovered her like 3 times, I wanna hear you talk about she can make you just loses through no fault of your own "oops you got hit by a 5 frame low and now have to hold a looping mix that she gets 2 chances on per hard knockdown? Oop you got hit her 1/3 screen low and now she's in your face running pressure on you? Oop you got hit by wakeup dp rc and now you're being carried from wall to wall"
Please help me understand, but is Slayer frame data right?? im very new to the game. My main struggle with him isn't even his damage, but rather that he recovers insanely quick. I mainly play Ky, Ram, Sin and Bridget, and most of times he recovers faster than i can hit him even in a counter attack, and im not even trying to follow up with heavy attacks. Some specials that usually connect with everyone else, sometimes dont with him and im not sure if it's my opponent lagging or i just need to git gud
@@bill2731 lmao yeah, Ky has been the character i least struggle against him for many reasons on the video (mainly range) but the vid helped me understand a lot about the importance of spacing against him and how grabbable he is. I dont have Slayer to throughly test all of these tips against him, but i'll take notes for my next online matchups :DD
I feel like Elphelt only needs to be less suspectible to 6P's on offense and she'd feel much better than she does currently. The amount of times I'm going in for a 2S trying to predict and I still get counter hit makes me wanna die. An increase on damage would also be nice but I'm okay w/ her having "low" damage if the rest of the game follows (2 tapped by slayer btw). Her rekka is trash in it's design and I don't really have a solution to it. If you make it so 5H 214S is true guranteed that's toxic and stupid af. If you want it to be interactive it needs to be backdashable but then she's locked into rekka and you just grab her and it's your turn.
i love slayer i love playing him and ive played him in every game hes been in but with how much everyone hates him in strive i have no motivation to play the gamr at all
The day Slayer dropped I took him in the lab to test out his moves & I haven’t played the game since because ain’t nobody got time to fight random WiFi Slayers
maybe if they change elphelt in a good way the elphelt players can educate themselves or something, idk if you can save the brain drain in that character but maybe there's hope.
tbh i think his fS needs to be made way more minus on block and unable to chain into cS without an extreme level of damage scaling even on blpck, and Master's Hammer should be +3 on block/lose GC.
You know, I wouldn't mind a damage nerf if they added some more combo utility to Dandy Step other than Pilebunker loops, like let me combo with some other moves, ABA gets to do danzai on air hit and it bounces.
"Less damage, more interaction" - 100%! This seems to be what modern fighters are all heading away from though. Strive, GBVSR, SF6, T8, even UNICLR all are more offensive than their previous versions.
Maining Bridget & Elphelt feels so weird cause playing some of the only characters with normal damage is such a mindfuck against Sols, Slayers, Asukas & Leos
Could just be my casual scrub slayer main brain talking but if they nerf his damage then either nerf the damage that sol,goldlewis, may, and aba do or give slayer slightly better neutral. Maybe give him a better backdash idk 🤷🏽♂️
Slayer seems decently balanced in the most aggravating way they could have possibly gone with. Very on-brand for him and for this game. I basically made my peace with Strive damage being at least twice as high as I'd like it to.
I feel like all the top players being in agreement is just as homogenized as the 50/50 WA hard KD setups are. All the characters play the same, and you all think the same. This narrative about god tier characters just being unpopular and that's why no one plays them is copium. May, Sin, GL are all SOOO stupid, but professional players who literally need to win prize pots to make their ends meet don't pick them? Bullshit.
I dont like how strong aba is but now that slayer's here in the state that he is. I forgive the transgression. Lmao Edit: as far as what they are touching for the july patch Positive bonus damage buff needs to go. That shit needs to be removed from the game completely. 10% bonus damage on everything does not need to exist on top of passive meter generation. It is way overkill. There is no character in the game that depends on that damage bonus to function. Get rid of it. OWA should not disable the concept of friction so that i can shove my opponent to the corner on hit or block from basically anywhere i want. Thats dumb. Nerf the slip n slide WWA is just massively overtuned in general. Too plus on block. Too easy to confirm into combo on hit. Too risk free to use
the high damage from characters now seem to just be a way to get people to buy them like pay to win " here our new character if you wanna win match you have to buy this one he does a lot of damage."
I dont think his damage is the problem. I think its the fact that he has some really threatening mix to create more opportunities for him to do the crazy ass amount of damage he does. They either need to tone down his damage to compensate for his evil mix or tone down his mix.
His mix is fine the problem is that if you fuck up once you die, millia has way more bullshit mix but its like a fly tickling you every time you guess wrong so nobody complains
honestly im ok with the damage, just not that its so fucking brainless and easy. You can just beat the shit out of your controller and get 60% (not a hyperbole). I thought the backshot combos would introduce more skill and optimization but you just dont need them since drooling does 90% of what backshot does with no effort.
Yeah unfortunately Axl just doesnt have a place in the game right now. High level Axl players are falling off, i believe the highest placing one at CB was Zintai @ 37th or something. Im firmly in the belief that Arc just doesnt want jim specifically to be good.
Last night i played against a slayer with 7 rollback frames and almost uninstalled the game Petition to buff jacko health, shes fine in every other aspect, just give her a little more health to survive more than 1 and a half combos
I'm pretty new to fighting games in general, but as far as I'm concerned his simple BNB's do way more damage than PB loops. Correct me if I'm wrong tho
Starting with the stuff I thought was just objectively good and true, positive bonus' affair with the burst gauge, low bayblade, the general states of CleanhitDP Badguy and Leo DashblockDP, HC still being frustrating to play against with momentum, Slayer being too consistent with his highest damage potential (Unrelated: I think Last Horizon sets a horrible precedent and I hope it gets taken out back before it's too late), Goldlewis, are all scheduled for the chopping block. Some sooner than others, probably, but I agree that these things are bad and hopefully aren't long for this world. As for WA, I don't agree that removing HKD on wallbreak from WA would solve the problem. The broad issue with it, in my opinion, is how accessible HKD loops are when you're ahead. The safejump situation is only as frustrating as it is because positive bonus ensures that you can loop nearly 100% of the time. Radical change, but I think getting rid of positive bonus on WA wallbreak could be a more meaningful hit to the mechanic and characters that abuse it the most. I could also see a world where, on account of getting rid of positive bonus burst meter gain, they introduce a burst gain penalty after using WA, either in general or only after using it to wallbreak. That might count as a new mechanic, so idk about that. As for BWA, but also RWA, HC is the only character who can abuse it because he can cover the throwable gap that universally exists otherwise. I think that giving RWA a throwable gap would help immensely on defense. I agree that something about the knockback of WA needs tweaking, and that increasing gravity is probably the way to go. I'm biased as someone that wishes Bedman? was in the game, but I don't think WWA having invuln needs to go completely just yet. I would like to see them reduce it heavily and give it a fixed duration regardless of the charge. Maybe from frame 9 to 14, or even less than that. The distance it travels is pretty ignorant, that needs to be gutted alongside its guard crush. No heavy body needs to teleport halfway across the screen and end up plus with no throw protection. As for the plus frames, I'd rather see them reduced slightly than stay the same, even if they do hit WWA in other ways. As for the other miscellaneous stuff, I think Stain having guard crush would actually be really impactful, even if none of the frame data around it changes. Being able to create situations without throw or crossup protection would make being plus after Possession significantly more threatening, especially if they teleport directly above. It's something I haven't heard before that, I feel, could really rejuvenate the character. I don't think Asuka's Super Cube/Sphere is that bad, but I've got fewer convictions about this one. I just don't think the idea needs to be removed from Asuka. Making the cube only hit once or twice, maybe slower startup and base travel time too, on account of its compatability with staves could be interesting, but the sphere should remain untouched imo. It's not like Asuka mains remember sphere exists anyway lmao. Everything else, I was kinda just indifferent on. Dash block is pretty cringe, though.
As he said in the video, all slayer has in strive is damage, I saw another comment suggesting that his resource buildup might be the problem, and I'd 100% agree, I think slayer with halved tension build or something wouldnt be as bad, because lets say that you half slayer's damage, I feel like that would blow his kneecaps, honestly I dont know how to touch him besides the tension buildup
@@JustCenti- reduce his damage across the board, reduce meter gain on Mappa and Dandy, and just a personal idea but reduce wallbreak damage if it's from pilebunker.
the only way for slayer to do as much damage to you as you say on a normal hit is with risc. i get ur a content creator and u gotta exaggerate or whatever but i think it's also important u remember that people take ur word as a top player seriously, and ur using that to like.. lie, straight up
"You can just lose for any reason" yeah this is why I'm prob permanently done with this game. It just keeps going down this dumbass snowball world of pain where the best characters get their win condition going for free and now you're in a 50/50 situation that will determine the round.
Every fighting game that has tried the "big damage for everyone" idiotic philosophy has eventually pulled back from it through patches by lowering the damage INCLUDING STRIVE, why do devs keep trying to make it happen? Maybe an ego thing or a race to try to reinvent the wheel, but it just sucks. Why does the knight move like that in chess, and why has it been that way for 600 years? Cause it makes for a fun game, people tried it and they liked it. No one freaking likes this, dude. Please, pls stop.
