Tyranids - How Much STRONGER Now? Balance Changes Review! 

“We are struggling killing tanky units” “Here I’ve reduced a few of your units by 5-15 points” Thanks, nailed it

Give Monsters access to Tank Shock and slap the twin-linked keyword onto all their claw attacks.

No amount of points cuts is going to fix Tyranids. There are a bunch of core rule issues not the least of which is lack of access to s10+ weapons or the crusher stampede detachment as a whole.

Really doubt it will fix much competitively , not that I feel outside the norns points changes would change much . A bunch of stats across the Tyranids feel like they need to be increased by 1 strenth, 1 ap, or 1 damage.

Von Ryan's Leapers needed to come down to 65 points. Theyre just not worth at at 75.

We are still a struggling army and our Season winrate for tournament GT's was 42.8% before the MFM. We are dependent on specific models and nerfing gargoyles for a faction that was in the bottom 4 for performance is a slap in the face. None of the point drops are going to massively impact winrate as Vanguard and Assimilation usually struggle to break out of mid tables. RU-vidrs and influencers saying the point increase was justified don't understand how fundamentally tyranids struggle to punch up into top tier armies, and have to rely on our secondary game and outlasting our opponents. Most lists went up 10-15 points because ONLY the gargoyles were affected in their lists, none of the other well used units were given points decreases to balance it out. Tyranid's needed help and we got a reduction on units that weren't seeing high tournament play in the first place. The units we needed to see decreases to were both the Walking Hive Tyrant and Flying hive Tyrant going down at least 10-15, and the Norn Assimilator and Emissary going down 10-15 points, especially in a meta where Sunforge melta Crisis suits just point and click to kill whatever they are shooting at.

Unfortunately I think points changes, while welcome, won't fix Tyranids. The army suffers from weak, poorly made rules, not to expensive models. If Tyranids are going to become good again, I imagine one of these scenario must happen: 1) Battleshock is changed, either to have higher impact (more debuffs), happen more consistently or both. 2) Tyranid rules must be changed to not be to reliant on the poor Battleshock mechanic. 3) (the most likely) 11th edition gives us a rules overhaul. GW probably won't touch fundamental core rules at this point, so while point changes might help tyranids to reach for the 45% win rate (last I heard it was closer to 42%), tyranids probably wont get near 50% until next edition

I suspect we got some help fielding wounds but will still struggle to punch into meaty factions. We are a very unserious threat to the Galaxy at presant.

Thought: I think it was suggested by John from AOW40K, but I kinda like the idea of giving Synapse the additional rule of granting +1S to all attacks for units within Synapse range. It's a patchwork fix, but it would at least be really easy to implement and do a lot for the faction. Would also make it finally feel like the army rule actually does something. Other Thoughts: While it's cool that some units may see more play now, the fundamental issues for Tyranids remain and I sadly can't see their win rate change much over the next 3 months (though, of course, more surprising things have happened). They still lack damage output, especially against tough targets. I genuinely believe you could increase strength characteristics across the whole faction by 1 and it wouldn't make them broken, which says miles about how underpowered a lot of their weapons are. Here's to hoping that they will also get significant changes in the next actual dataslate, although I fear that those changes won't nearly be enough and it'll take another 6 months for GW to look at them again (which of course, means, the Codex will have been out for 1 1/3 years at that point ....)

Reminder that Barbgaunts and zoanthropes, are still more expensive than they were before their first big nerf, guards are back down to their original (bad) price, and Swarmlord is only 10 points cheaper than he started at (which is still 40+ points more expensive than he ought to be!) The only ACTUAL points cuts were the Psychophage, Warriors, and Lictor. Warriors are still totally vulnerable to every weapon in the game, Psychophage still has the offensive power of a 30 pts unit, and lictors are objectively worse than neurolictors after losing invul for no reason. If none of these units get stat changes in 3 months, they all deserve another 20% points cut.

Yup, the Biomine strat is one half the current WR% and the top 4 units are the other half. It's a step in the right direction that they bumped up the bottom line, but without making the top picks cheaper overall too in a meta where most armies are becoming "horde-like" but with better T, S, and AP we're still going to continue struggling as a faction. Again a step in the right direction but frankly we need more and where it counts...oh yeah they nerfed one of our top picks even though we're one of the worst performing armies, so our WR% might actually drop further.

So many correct points in comments below. I no longer need to leave my list. Essentially, these changes are inconsequential to making nids more balanced with other factions. Someone at GW has a major issue with nids.

Tyranids used to make up for their bad saves with high wounds, in editions where everything was 1 damage. So while a terminator was 3+/5++ (or 4++ if you bought the storm shield), they only have the 1 wound. Now, Terminators are 3-4 wounds, 2+/4++ by default, and kept all their deadly options. Meanwhile, Tyranid warriors are... STILL 4+ save with 3 wounds. And now there's loads of stuff that does more than 1 wound (for non-tyranid armies). And that's to say nothing of going from 3-9 down to 3-6 units, so they're less able to actually do anything if they don't get mopped up. Warriors really ought to be 6-9 wounds each, to make them slightly closer to their original gimmick, but we'll never see it. Everything else gets tougher and tougher while nids get more and more feeble. And don't even get me started about how far Carnifexes have fallen!

I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda

I think in competitive nids are only hurt by this update, and with other armies getting good changes, I expect nids win rate will drop even more. I think for casual it allows some neat stuff but overall needed more. I was really hoping for the norns to drop 20-30 points. I think the swarmlord needs to come down to 200 points or even less especially when u compare it to the hive tyrant.

Maybe +1 strength against battleshocked units and/or +1 strength on the charge (or maybe in synapse?) as an additional army rule would help in the right way. It would be thematic and help without reworking half the datasheets.

Ngl, I'am thinking that psychophage at that cost might be pretty good in Assimilation, nice to give nearby Hauruspexes some more durability and as a bonus add more harvester keywords to the army

Thank you. We need more help than just a few points drop. Need drop gaunts, Tyrans and anothers units having more impact. Profils not change, we need more letality Or a better rule Synapse, a better Shadows in the warp (like the WAAAGH of the Orks) and better battleshock rules. So Hive mind !

John Lennon from ArtofWar had a great idea - units in synapse range get +1 strength. And it'd be so easy to implement, literally just a line in the next dataslate. It wont fix everything but it'd go a long way towards fixing a major Nid problem in that we can't kill anything. Our monsters getting tank shock as well would be really nice

My Hive Fleet, Hive Fleet Paper tiger, will love these changes. I thin Lictors look quite useful for Rapid ingressing on for free and helping with Assassinate by targeting support characters or other lone operatives. I normally start with them infiltrated and then redeploy them with the Neuronode.

Great Analysis!!! Spot On!!

If they would buff Assimilator I would be SOOO happy

It helps a little bit for sure, dropping the Zoans allows people to more freely run a unit of 6 which can do some real damage when paired with Exocrine rerolls to more tanky units and big blobs of pretty much any type of infantry. If they don't want to do any rule changes then a strong points drop on Carnifex/Norn(s)/Hive Tyrant(s) would help a lot, I still don't think Swarmlord is low enough either for it to be included.

Dunno about everyone else but I’m getting really good results useing a psychophage in the assimilation swarm detachment alongside endless swarms,,,and a few rippers lol

Unfortunately Venomthropes *don't* pair well with Tyrant guards, since Venomthropes don't give Stealth to Monster units and the tyrant leaders are both monsters

my brother plays tyranids, i notice it more the strenght of things in combat isn't good enough for anything from T5 or above depending on engagements, but most the time hes wounding on 5-6's. i think it would be good if they allowed units that are battleshocked when tyranids attack in combat they get extra strength maybe extra attack like orks. or +1 to wound to make perils of the warp better. also it should be -1 automatically, and if neurotyrant is down -2 instead, to make battle shocks fail more. through most my matches with him, i've passed so many battleshock tests from perils it just don't seem it good enough especially for 1 turn

Nothing makes the Tyranids' overreliance on scoring tricks more obvious than playing game modes without secondaries. Obviously, Matched Play should be the focus of balancing; but man, starting a Crusade as Nids feels really sad.

I am so sick and tired of seeing Pts increases on Gargoyles. that's like... the ONE thing that kept unending swarm playable and it feels like they really want to kill the playstyle. like, for real, you would be better playing AdMech or Custodes sometimes if your goal is to fill the board with cheap models and its getting obsecene. CSM could spam Raptors for the SAME COST as we speak and this as NO right to be a thing.

Add the invasion fleet detatchment rule to our army rule and it solves a lot of our issues. Obviously just giving us lethals doesnt solve our lack of AP but itd be a start.

I'm playing assimilation swarm and for the most part the order of priorities is. Primary objective, then secondary then throw everything i have at the most problematic unit that turn and hope to wipe a unit out.

Barbgaunts are underrated imho. On average, they get about 23 shots against units with 5 models. If you didn't move, these hit on 3s for an average of about 15 hits (more if you factor in Invasion Fleet sustained hits). It's strength 5, so you're getting about 7 to 10 wounds against most things. This doesn't include the moment debuff. I think this is good for 55 points.

I love the astethic of the Death Leaper, but on the tabletop, his abilities seem underwhelming.

Melee warriors have a very nice combo in invasion fleet. With a prime, lethals against vehicles and the strategem to give two units crits on 5.....they kill anything.

I'll go against the grain a bit: I reckon melee Tyranid Warriors are pretty decent now. Good volume of attacks, strength 5, 2 Ap, twin-linked, possibly re-rolling 1's to hit, I think they have potential even as just a little skirmish piece. In particular, I'm looking at Assimilation Swarm. A squad of 6 led by a Prime with the double regeneration enhancement, 6+++ from a Psychophage, maybe -1 to hit and cover from Venomthropes, and I think you have something that's really annoying to deal with. Tyrant Guard can also fill this role, albeit without the double regen potential.

Just been starting with nids, so good to get a decent idea of what to go through. I already have been proxieing with my CSM forgefiends for a tervigon and whatever gunbug seemed like a good idea at the time, so knowing specific things I should track down never hurts.

The fact that my strategy with Nids is to just sit on objectives with as many bodies as possible and deny scoring for my opponent with little to no hope of killing stuff, and that it’s had zero improvement after this change says everything you need to know really. Tyranids have to work their asses off for every single kill against even light infantry, let alone tanks. It rly just comes down to how long you can make units survive on objectives with a Tervigon/Unending Swarm combo on 20 Termagants, which is not an ideal way to play at ALL. They’re way too damn weak for an unending sea of eldritch horrors.

Tad late but the Swarmlord needs a datasheet buff. The character version of something should be more expensive. More strength to bonesabers to be more anti tank would be a good change. You could would T10 stuff on 4s.Increasing the foot tyrants points doesn't mean it's a good thing for Swarmy it just means they're the least worst for the points.

6 warrior with range weapon can take 2 venom cannon AND 2 barbed strangler... the venom can shoot at tougher stuff and 2x barbed strangler + 2x deathspitter are good against Infanterie and they got synapse keyword. I think for 130 points you can definitly use them mor often

Maybe a stupid question but… where do we have any „reroll 1s” in synaptic nexus stratagems mentioned during talking about zoanthropes?

a few point drops is not enough to bring Nids up. we need help taking down tougher units and the +1 S some are talking about is just not enough. maybe Devastating wounds in synapse with the wording, if the weapon already have devastating wounds it crits on a 5 instead of a 6. or make it lethal hits and change the detachment rule that got it to crit on a 5 instead of a 6. would love to also se a point drop for the FW units, they went up when the Norns came out because GW feared they would fit the same niche. they don't and now the Hierodules are wildly over costed.

We understood that during this 10th we will not see at lethal Tyrranid army. No problem fort hat but AT LEAST, why can't we have cheaper war to do map control for example ? A Norn at 275 is overpriced for just a T11. Actually this patch doesn't help very much , +5 points for gargoyle ??? This was one of the good stuff that Nid has and they nerf it ?

The only issue with the toxicrene is the obscenely large model. The tentacles make it a nightmare to move and can easily be seen. The rules are fine, I think we would see more of them sometimes if the model wasn't so annoying

Pschophages will be a hugge nuisance on anything less than top tier competitive tables I think. Combined with the ryrant guard buff, assimilation swarm just got a shot in the arm, as it really enjoyed both units more than other detachments.

So glad I got a couple of psychophages at bottom prices. I liked the models but now their second hand sprues are sold out.

As a tyranids player, if, say they removed secondary scoring from rippers and spore mines, and in exchange let us use 500points more than our opponents, we'd still have a sub 45% winrate.

I’m no expert but I find myself scratching my head when looking for anti armor solutions. No Tyranid list I come up with ever feels dangerous.

Lol. Looks like my hongry boys are gonna stay on the shelf for a while longer!

The swarm grows! But for real these points per dollar are starting to get a little rough.

really fun being in this edition where if your army is struggling, you just have to spam trash units or vehicles to feel viable as points go further and further down lol

Psychophage seems neat, could make for an interesting survivability setup

if GW want boost tyranids, they must rework some weapons in order to up the lethality. Play with points does'nt change this problem.

Woohoo, my s6 damage units now even cheaper! Ironstorm BT army rumbles into view... Oh

I think the necroms change was more of a buff than the tryranids change

Even with this balance adjustment, Tyranids still can't even take on necrons.

Points nerfs are fine, but is a bit muted by needing to take a whole squad of units

I'm still waiting for the Hive Tyrant to go down, surely shouldn't be more than 200pts max? Hormagaunts at a flat 60pts would be nice as well, advance and charge is good but they do no damage and die like it's going out of fashion. Shouldn't cost more than termagants IMO

FOR THE NORN KING! 👑 GW has in mind for the Tyranids to be the antagonists, so they're not meant to win by lore. We'll have to force the alternative!

JUST AS I WOKE UP! Blessing from the omnissiah

All nids monsters need +1 strength to their melee weapons. So much strength 9 and 10 and its just not enough. Also people are sleeping on the rupture cannon. Yes its swingy, but when it swings dear god its awesome. I one shot a full health screamer killer in over watch and in another game did 19 damage to a baneblade. And at 190 pts they are totally worth it.

I love my bugs, but I still don’t understand why the Norns aren’t Epic Hero units. Utterly ridiculous for 6 of them on the board.

Barbgaunts are going to be good with the green tide coming

if only they didn`t buff random units

I have a lot of thoughts on the individual units, but I'll keep it short. Just like with the Admech (sorry for THOSE players) The entire model range could be 5 points/model and it wouldn't help. Tyranids cannot deal with high armor and/or high toughness enemies. How points cuts fixes this is beyond me. Battle Shock as a mechanic is an f'ing joke. It's swingy at best, and simply an extra step that delays the game at worst, so having an ENTIRE ARMY based around a bad mechanic is disastrous. GW is focusing on Admech and their rules, so they claim, so i have a feeling the Hive Mind will be right where it is in the meta probably for the rest of the year. *sad tyranid cries* Damn. The new models are SO COOL TOO!

About the Tyranids Warrior Ranged.... for a 20ish ppm it's embarrasing for them having so low surviveability and BS4+. The only way that T.Warrior would be playable would be with an absurd point buff (50 per unit for example) or giving them BS3+.

I am once again begging for some good nid melee

A blessing from the lord!

you can fix some of our issues by giving us unit leaders that can lead Gaunts another issue is we have been forced in to being this battle shock faction a gimmick that is so bad that other armies do not even bother whit it we dont get Grenades the strongest strat in the game we dont get tank shock and we dont get smoke Tyranids play scorehammer and this is not fun i would be ok whit having a 20% win rate if it meant i can enjoy playing my army again i just want the dang fun back i was happier at the end of 7th ed when we where at almost sub 10% win rate then i am now. also explain to me how the fast army in the lore is the slowest on the tabletop

Not much more. Its just not a very good book tbh. Pts wont always fix bad rules. Warriors need to hit on 3+ and have a 3+sv to be worth the points. Tank shock for monsters Carnifexes hitting on 3+ again More anti tank

tyranids problems cant be fixt with points . mostley they do 0 deamage . give every unit 10 points more and 1 ap more that wood fix it .

That’s enough for me. After 10 years of playing nids I’ll switch to eldar. There is no hope.

😅

No more spore mine scoring, make gants and gaunts cheaper.

Why does the Neurotyrant never go down in points? It is absolutely not worth it's points! Shame as it is one of the best miniatures in the range....

Please do a review like this for WE, I’d love to hear your sage-like opinion on them.

Us tyranid players understand we arent a killy army this season, like okay cool not the end of the world. if you play tyranids you gotta understand we are an amazing army for scoring and obj holding rather than just " kill the enemy ! " although we like that. but we dont win by tabeling you. we win by invading the board and consuming the planet....

One bug problem nids really have is shadow in the warp is awful for something you can do once per game, compare it to Orks with Waaagh, or even to space marines able to do oath (even post nerf) every turn and it just sucks. Low to mid strength melee outside of four models (I'm not counting forge world monsters it shouldn't be hundreds of pounds to get a decent amount of Anti-Bigitude)and low to mid strength range outside of three (hive guard against vehicles technically, but their ap sucks) also stings in an edition of big toughness and armour saves.

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the datasheets re just too weak. to play nids you pretty much try to score as mucyh as possible before you are wiped. there is no power in the army.

Bruh

We Nids player will still struggle to win something big. I think the changes are a step in the right direction but we need some other changes to make us competitive. John from Art of War had a good suggestion.

.........and screamer killer is still 145 points

People look in the wrong places for tyranid anti-tank. Invasion Fleet, chose the lethal hits against vehicles thing, 20 man Gaunt swarm, throw it at your desired target, pop your 5+ crit stratagem, spend half an hour resolving 60+ attacks, and the enemy vehicle is good as gone.

Dude, it’s 6 in the morning… Get some sleep!

I’ve always liked the Tyranids more as a more tanky board control army instead of a damage army. The playstyle is different and fun that way compared to others, and thematic. Not everyone should be super damage army

Stop making it cheaper! My miniature shelf is already broken...

No views in 1 minute. Auspex fell off hard.

Yeah cause Tyranids needed a point cut. Every unit in the Tyranids army is already 5 points or cheaper, but what they needed was a point cut. Could they really not have given the same level of respect to Space Marines? Space Marines are supposed to be the poster-child of Warhammer, but every model is like 150 points for 5 models, why can't they get a point cut?

Hiveguard with impaler cannons seem like they would be great to hold a back objective. sit on the point firing artillery and if anything decides to deepstrike (which is usually infantry) overwatch on 4s could really do a number