UNMIXABLE ATTRIBUTES!! The Seven Deadly Sins of TCG Designs Part 3 

"Even Yugioh with its hard baked archetypes can generate excitement with their sets as there's always a chance that it might contain some new cards that help these old archetypes out." Konami: "Here's Magicians' Souls, a new Dark Magician support card to help Dark Magician decks specifically. We even made it's conditions really specific to support Dark Magician only." Players: "Oh boy, a new Spyral card! Now we can be Tier 1 again!"

“Exciting new staples!” Shows firewall dragon *please no*

As a Yu-Gi-Oh! player, I would argue that archetypes are considered a primary attribute. A majority of new Yu-Gi-Oh! cards are incredibly xenophobic, and heavily restrict the player into a very limited pool of cards to choose from when deck building. As a result, most of these archetypes are dead on arrival because either A. the archetype's mechanics are not strong enough to build a standalone deck, B. the archetype is weighed down with unnecessary summoning restrictions to force you into only summoning monsters with certain types, attributes, or cards that share the same archetype, or C. both. I get messages all the time of people asking me how they can build a (good) deck that successfully combines their two favorite archetypes, but unfortunately, Yu-Gi-Oh! just doesn't always work that way. Of course there are exceptions to the rule; Yu-Gi-Oh! periodically receives plenty of generic/semi-generic archetypes, and people more often than not connect the dots and figure out how to combine the best of two separate strategies. But compared to a game like MTG where you can have numerous archetypes and sub-archetypes within certain color combinations (Blue/Black Control, Blue/Black Mill etc.), there is a lot less room for innovation, because the game practically dictates how it wants you to play. Another exception to this would be the inclusion of "generic" standalone cards/engines/combos (think 1 card Halqifibrax combos, Brilliant Fusion package, etc), but even then, the planets have to perfectly align, and you're still going to be (in most instances) using those cards to complement a given archetype.

Cow tokens? IS THAT A PROZD REFERENCE?!

Vanguard content creator here & my god this is a very good analysis of Vanguard, please keep churning this out.

I find something about Vanguard really interesting. It seems that in the west, not many shops carry it and it is far less popular. Yet here, in Southeast Asia (Singapore to be specific), almost every card store I go to carries it, with singles and a very active community of players. Maybe Bushi just focuses more on this area of the world, but who knows.

"Hearthstone has a robust set of universal cards" Shows Piloted Shredder _flashbacks intensify_

Jeez, you’d think Cardfight Vanguard killed his parents or something.

I play a number of card games at a number of LGSes, including Vanguard, so I can confirm, Vanguard players do just congregate into a single store. Nearly every store in the area started carrying it, but one-by-one stores started to cut it, as you stated. However, players from each store started filtering down until we now have one store (that's a bit too far from me, personally) that attracts basically every player in the county. Since each player now goes to the one store, there are players dedicated to pretty much every clan, so the store doesn't have to worry about too much back product. Although, this has killed other games at that store. Since so much of their playerbase is dedicated to Vanguard, they really only host casual events for their other games.

7:37 funfact for those who dont know: Firewall Dragon was the protagonists bossmonster, but was so degenerately overpowered, that the community spammed official konami twitter accounts and youtube comment sections to ban the card for months untill it got finally banned after a year its one of the most hated combo enablers of all time

As an avid and competitive Vanguard player, I agree with most points in the video. However, we're so deep into the system already, Extreme Fight (the format where you can mix all clans) is a ridiculous game. One idea I've often considered is turning the game Nation-based. We saw this at the end of G, where certain cards could be used by all clans within a nation. However, I'm sure there's plenty of issues with that as well, so the game would need some aggressive banlist/restricted list restructuring and it'd likely also throw off a lot of people. Many people love clan X whilst hating clan Y. Try telling a Granblue zombie-loving fan that the best version of their deck will now start playing some big-tiddy bermuda triangle mermaids in order to stay competitive. Good luck. Not really sure how VG should go about fixing this issue. At least Premium Collection supports all clans at once.

"Imagine if magic the gathering released a set that only contained blue and white cards!" WOTC: Great idea! * Releases Commander Collection: Green*

Kohdok: *talks about staples for 5 seconds Any competitive yugioh player currently: *cries in crystron halqifabrax

"My nemesis." Raid shadow Legend ads precedes to play.

Vanguard's clan system is actually the entire reason I switched to it from Yu-gi-oh, and my #1 favorite thing about the game. It made collecting, deckbuilding, and buying much more manageable, and ensured that players could maintain their identity as an XXX-deck player year after year.

The reason your counting 27 is because you are counting Entranger (A promo exclusive unplayable clan) The Mask collection (A thai exclusive clan) And Union Verse (Legit only the manga has this) (Also where on the list is the new clan BanG Dream?) they dont count to the players, as none of them are playable in Japanese or english vanguard.

What's hilarious is that there was exactly 1 regional series before Clan FIght was introduced. Before Clan Fight you could take every 8k and 10k vanilla and mash them into a deck with 16 critical triggers, and win on like turn 3. God Bless Vanilla Rush

The reason for Vanguard's growing popularity has to do with the youtube anime that was essentially made as a way to sell the game and has been going on for years. It's much like how the yugioh tcg is only so successful because of the anime which got many into the card game.

One of the reasons I stick to Vanguard is actually this very clan system. People who get into the game have lots of fun trying out clans and find out what suits them. I can (almost) be certain that the clan I pick retains its theme and general play style, which I love. I keep up with multiple clans, and this is not unusual, which means the chances that I'll want to buy new product increases. I'm also certain that my clan will keep getting cards, how long that may take, but at least once a year. When an archetype is outcrept in Yugioh, you can never be sure when it will get some new cards, if those even help. Because Bushiroad brought upon themselves the task to balance 24 clans as well as possible, because that will positively influence sales, they have found a sweet spot to do so now. In the early days, "era's" were defined by a new game mechanic, like Yugioh's synchro, pendulum etc., but the clans who got that mechanic first were vastly more powerful than the ones who had to wait for their versions. Nowadays, we get new mechanics overall, like imaginary gifts and the quick shield, which are immediately applicable to all clans and changes up the meta even. Within standard, not counting a couple of outliers of course, it's very possible to stand a good chance with an 'older' clan, such is the balance. The sales are retained in the West at least because: 1) People buy entire booster cases within their community. There are always people to gather to cover all clans, and splitting the contents of this case up is easy. 2) Clan sets are easily packaged as a bundle for shops to sell. 3) People who play meta keep selling their old decks to buy new ones. This is however common in many other card games. Shops not carrying it is a huge problem though, and I can't help but agree with your point. Indeed, the community gathers at the few shops that do carry it, that's how it happens in NL anyway. Locally, it's nigh impossible to find new players. It is nice to have such an incredibly invested community, the best I've found myself in and I played roughly every card game ever. That's what keeps it afloat.

I’m very glad I found this channel. This series is great!

I think the new Cardfight Vanguard CEO watched this because the new standard we are now able to mix, because they simplified it to 5 nations, which you can combine into, and also every single set now coming out every 2 months not every month, will be able to give all 5 nations support

Funnily enough, VG used to be “you can mix clans togheter” but towards the end of the Asia Circuit arc of the anime decks started become “shove cards from 1 clan into another because why not” and it lead to some annoying shenanigans so they changed it.

I mean, netrunner has unmixable attributes and it does it really well. However, that might be due to the fact that they have non-random boxes that people can buy for all of their cards.

Unfortunately the only reason Vanguard and Weiss players defend Bushiroad's design is that the company generally barely reprints causing the market to be stable. Just look at the common and uncommon cards in Vanguard and Weiss. They don't SELL AT ALL Since the set is designed to be its own ecosystem, the common and uncommon cards are designed to be purposely be bad, so players rely on the higher rarity cards. Compared to yugioh where they can use these common slots to import cards, or gradually add a card to the archetype to boost its playability. This makes Vanguard and Weiss unplayable for those budget players who want rogue decks but cannot buy 4 copies of VRs, RRs, Rs. Now other players might defend Bushi's choices but look how many LGS support Yugioh and can regularly sell card compared to Vanguard and Weiss. Having 12 sets a year is too much for players with a game with almost no reprints. Compared to Yugioh that balances reprints and have only 4 core sets.

Fun fact about hearthstone: next expansion will be their fourth attempt at mixing classes. First Attempt: Gadgetzan Second Attempt: Halloween Arena Third: Halloween Arena Fourth: Scholomancy, coming next month

Since my friends and I got into Vanguard when they started the V-series, we've been more and more engaged in having a larger clan pool between us. We're also deep into premium format as well. Our circle has increased in size, and we've began splitting cases together. We have on average 3-5 clans each so most releases have relevancy to us. I definitely get you though, the release schedule is pretty vicious, especially right now. And it can also be difficult to have a favorite clan that isnt an anime starchild. (sad Tachikaze main here) But we all have enough fun and substidize the cost enough that it doesn't get overwhelming for us.

From another bushiroad product, Weiss Schwarz, they actually handled unmixable attributes somewhat well. There were the primary attributes of the four colors of cards, each representing a different design style (Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow), and could be mixed freely. However, what really dictated the restrictions were the secondary attributes (Class and Series). Since the premise was that your deck represented a specific anime series and/or characters, each series had its own dedicated set, with the characters and crucial scenes divided amongst the four colors and with class attributes (which were less of a restriction and more there to allow for more uniform synergies within the set.) Really, the only restriction in competitive play was that your deck had to be all from a series, which would have 1-3 sets (with the occasional extra mini-set from time to time), and there was never really any rotation persay, instead having restricted and banned cards ala YGO. That said, it was a bit more complicated than Vanguard in certain respects, and its dependency on the popularities of series may in fact fall slightly into sin #5. Not to mention a good chunk of the series were either japan-only or took time to reach other regions. While a few LGS's carried stuff for a while, the demand and support has dwindled from what I can tell. Too bad, since it was a fun game. : P

Something Cardfight does that got me out of the game is how one or two clans were heavily favored, especially if the main character played said clan. That clan or archetype gets sufficient and ample support every single set to the exclusion and detriment of others. It's like if MTG favored one of the 5 colors and the other four only got support "whenever". My favorite clans in Vanguard were completely unviable because of the oversaturated support of other clans and how broken their support was. Over saturation is a deadly sin I personally cannot forgive in a lot of card games. I'm glad you pointed it out. So many people ignore hoe toxic it all is.

My favourite example of "multiple attributes interacting with each other" has to come from WIXOSS. It has a primary attribute of Color and a secondary attribute of Class, with Class being actually two different categories: a general Type of Spirit, and a more specific... race? (I don't know the real word for it.) But for example, a SIGNI (monster) Class can be "Image Spirit: Angel" or "Nature Spirit: Space". The first part is the Spirit type, the second is its more specific classification, which I'll just call race. The Spirit types are present in every color, and generally the specific race of the card is usually dependent on what combination of colour and Spirit type it is. For example, Angel is a White Image Spirit SIGNI, and Space is a White Nature Spirit SIGNI. A Red Image Spirit would be Valor, a Blue Nature Spirit would be Atom, etc. (There are some deviations from this; for example, there's more than a few Black Angels.) This may seem like a lot of classifications but it allows for a LOT of freedom in card design. Cards can search or interact with the colors of cards, with their specific race, or even with the Spirit types to let you cross Colors (though this is extremely rare). Most cards that specify race also don't specify color, so even the SIGNI with unusual color/class combos (like the aforementioned Black Angels) or more recent multi-Class SIGNI can benefit from this. And it avoids the problem of certain cards being way too powerful when used together, by giving some cards a fourth "attribute" of sorts called a Limiting Condition. Cards with a Limiting Condition can only be played on the field with a specific LRIG (basically the main character your deck centers around), to keep them confined to their specific deck and theme. And some LRIGs come in different colours, so it doesn't always keep them tied to a specific colour. There's also no rule keeping you from PUTTING any card in your deck either; the Limiting Condition only prevents playing it on the field, but it can still use non-field non-play effects, like when it's milled, or triggers from a Life Burst upon taking damage. I don't know many applications of this myself but it does show that even cards with strict limitations can still be experimented with to some degree. And because of this I'd say WIXOSS has the best balance of incredible deckbuilding freedom with a structure that keeps things from being too broken. It even went almost all of 2019 without a banlist update, and if that doesn't speak volumes about how well-balanced this game's systems are then I dunno what will.

I actually know a store that's entirely dedicated to Vanguard, in a place where Yugioh Is the standard. Not only they've been open for years, they're actually growing.

5:19 sorry if this is a duplicate post, checked the existing comments and didn't see this. There are 24 main clans, with 2 crossover clans that aren't on the chart (Touken Ranbu and Bang Dream). The 3 without logos aren't clans we count. Etranger are generally promo cards that are crossovers (Spideman from TASM series has a card here), The Mask collection is a weird Thai only set that messes with a lot of the rules, and Union Verse is a Spin-off Manga only clan that does not have any actual cards printed.

Nubatama was a terrible example come on!!! Nubatama was discontinued in season 1 because it dealt with discard and it had to never get support until they figured out a way to balance it. Actually nubatama has always been vanguard's "problem child" because they need to keep changing its core mechanic not to be too oppressive

Blaster Dark and Dragoenergy are not cards being given exceptions *because* they're protagonist used cards. These are cases where a card was designed or an anime fight was aired and the rules were later changed in a way that would make those plays illegal or cards unusable. The exceptions were made to prevent that. Also, in the case of Dragoenergy specifically, the rule change was later completely reverted, so it no longer has an exception. 9:02 or that's just how it is in your local area? Why make this assumption that how it is in your area is how it is everywhere?

This guy seems to have some bone to pick with Vanguard lol, and while I can see where he is coming from, the part about where "A huge part of the player base does not care about a set " is often moot. Yes because of the lack of mixing, You have to wait for a specific arc type, but in return you will find Vanguard players often hold on to multiple clans, giving them more variety of gameplay. In vanguard, it is much easier to build multiple decks because of the lack of crossover staples that reach ridiculous prices. In return for consistent updates, Vanguard players enjoy a more well-grounded core design around their favorite clans, not forcing them to update the same deck with each expansion released

There is a digital CCG called Horus Heresy Legions, which I play. It did it this way: every expansion, 3 new factions are released, along with some neutral cards. You can use the cards of your legion and neutrals. Older factions don't receive new cards, only changes (buffs and nerfs) to their old cards, and new synergies with the new neutral cards. They also have separate packs for each expansion, and packs that cost twice more for a certain faction. That is for avoiding overpowered combinations, an example: heroes in this game are not just numbers of health, they are creatures with attack and abilities. Say, Lucius, a hero that can attack again after a kill, and has an active ability to increase his attack this turn multiple times, from the Emperor's Children, gets "Raven's Claws" card from the Raven Guard, that makes your hero not receive counterattacks from the enemies attacked. Isn't that OP? Yes! While there are ways to get cards from other factions, including the combination above, you have to be very lucky to assemble the overpowered combination.

I don't really have an issue with your arguments towards vanguard save 3 that I'll lay out here. 1.You count 27 clans because 3 of those clans are unplayable in tournaments and don't get support. 2.Clan fight was a ruleset that was added later in the games lifespan hence why there are really weird exceptions like Blaster dark and the reverse cards, not cause they are super anime cards. 3.The cray elemental clan is a clan that anyone can mix into their deck which is USUALLY not that great but some of them usually become staples

The highly successful Star Wars CCG had "Light Side" and "Dark Side" decks. Tournaments went flawlessly: each player was required to have one deck of each. They used a slightly modified Swiss format so all players' decks were used.

It is weird because Vanguard feels like the exception. Since I main clans like narukami, having to wait made me interested in other clans. Using the online simulator has given me access to checking out the mechanics of other clans and finding more decks that I want to build.

Two things. One is that for the Austin powers deck builder for tourneys you can have everyone make a good deck, and everyone make an evil deck. And two, I feel like netrunner does this very well, all the runners and corps mainly have to build in faction, but can choose a few choice cards from others to make bonker combos (criminals with Apoc, Weyland with NBN).

As a Vanguard player, this video has aged like milk. Bushiroad recognized this problem and solved it by reducing the clans down to nations and having every set support those 5-6 nations, so every set will have more reason for every player to buy it

Also a note about Vanguard is that it's really 33 unique cards that need to be considered, due to 17 cards always being dedicated to triggers and a starter. Granted, sometimes unique triggers and starters are a factor, but generally since the start of the V-series, these cards are unchanged within the clan. Not to mention they are always present with every wave of support.

Probably would have been worth bring up Commander in the video as, despite Magic's normal rules allowing for relatively easy mixing, Commander as a format is practically defined by the inability to mix colors if your chosen commander does not promote some set of colors. This shows a great example of "if given enough base option combinations and designed appropriately, 'unmixable attributes' can be a boon for the game."

When you talked about having just good and evil decks, and having to face each other only, it reminded me inmediately of Android Netrunnner. That was an LCG, but it had that mechanic and forced players to have a Hacker and Corporation (the two factions of the game) deck, and you play best of 3, having to play at least one of the games with each faction. Just learned the rules and didn't played a lot but I thought it was a cool mechanic.

that's the reason i kinda like the way Magic (and Final Fantasy) went with the colours. I mean as a starter you can easily get the way different colours play (red is aggressive, black kills everything and discards (in Magic) // earth buffs your power, Ice likes to freeze and discard, Fire is aggressive with damage based kills) but you can totally mix (and it's actually for some themes in FF required) For YGO: well it now has their Theme Decks where Konami basically gives you the decklist with almost no room for own card choices (since even in theme some cards are WAY better than other ones). On the other hand... the type and element really didn't matter for quite a long time. Regarding Vanguard: it's growing? ok than only in US since it is quite dead here in Germany xD (just checkend and it seems only ONE store in Germany hosts Tournaments... and only ONE story in Switzerland and ONE store in Austria) en.cf-vanguard.com/event/battlelist/battle_2002s/europe But the biggest sin for a new TCG is... basically being a TCG. i mean the market is FULL with gamers already playing a game. Very few have the money to support a second game and very few will switch to another game completly if a new game comes up. So the margin is veeeery thin.

There are 24 OFFICAL clans in vanguard. Union Verse only exists in the manga, there's not enough cards in Eteranger to be played as an actual clan, and Mask Collection is exclusive to the Thai format. But then again, 24 is still wrong, as there's Token Ranbu and BanG Dream being added along with Cray Elementals being an actual clan.

Personally, part of the reason I wanted to play Vanguard was because of that very segmented and oftentimes slow roll out for new cards for some clans. I got into the game with Bermuda Triangle, which is a once a year support, so it was a way for me to play a deck I liked for a longer time without absolutely needing to buy stuff like I would have for Magic. I could play my Bermuda deck, then if something came along that looked cool and I had the money, I could buy in and play that, and if not, I wouldn't have to worry that either rotation or just not having the options my deck needed would hurt me. I don't disagree that it can be fiddly though, just a matter of what we're all willing to go through for the different things we enjoy, I suppose.

10:28 actually the premium format exists now with the reboot people can still use their old cards even with the new ones and the other 3 clans in star gate are meme clans or country exclusive or manga only ever used

Man, the quality of your videos is so good and I love your since of humor/knowledge base regarding card games. You deserve way more views!

More recently thankfully vanguard has integrated clans into bigger general categories to cutback on that exact issue you spoke of in this video. Ik I’m late to watching this video but I thought it was worth mentioning here as an update

I love how you used the example that mastered the Unmixable Attributes and is growing Cardfight Vanguard. Bushiroad isn't perfect, I agree but they are far from the bumbster fire you display them to be. First of all you forget the other side of the coin! The game is way more affordable. In most card games you need to buy the new powerful cards every new set which costs a ton! In vanguard if you play only clan you buy support for it once or twice a year(with few exceptions). That means that it is easier to build decks for the people who enter the game and it is way cheaper than most card games to build and maintain a deck. Also Bushiroad is smart on booster sets. They put 4-5 clans but since they have all the tournament data they know which clans are and aren't popular because when you register a decklist you register your clan. So they pair the unpopular ones with the popular ones to make sure people buy out the boosters. Most Vanguard players like me actually enjoy this mechanic. Because it makes our decks cheaper and it forces variaty into the game. Also if a clan gets few really powerful cards it doesn't powercreeep the other clans.

1: as you said allot of vanguard sales actually happen online rather than in store And this is what my lgs did, the moment they saw the issue they restricted vanguard to online only and only by box this is done by vanguard actually having really really cheap booster boxes 2: even if the store doesn't hold tournaments players are allowed to and even than most just play casually 3: actually the old cards didn't lose value cause vanguard has a legacy formate called premium

When I was a kid I played redemption "the bible tcg" and they dodged the archetype issue by making good cards offensive only and evil cards defensive that way you needed a mix of both to win. I found it to be a super interesting mechanic.

I actually like the VG system as a player (and as a guy that does product orders for an LGS.) For the three clans I play I only have to buy into a few products a year. The difference in my experience is that stores don’t interface with the players and buy product blindly. Some sets I order several cases because of high interest and preorders, sets with little interest I’ll get just a few boxes in any at all. When managed correctly VG is a great game to carry. As one of two stores in the ATL area to support it we have a pretty dedicated base for it, versus YGO or MTG with fickle audiences. At the tournament level VG has the highest deck variety I have ever seen in a TCG outside of Weiss Schwarz. Personally I like that I can play cards that I actually like; each clan having a theme. Don’t like pop idols, play robot dinosaurs. Don’t like chivalrous knights? Play Gundams! All the while keeping to the theme you like. I’m rambling here but I believe VG is a good example of using attributes to define the game in a unique way that sets it apart.

"Can you imagine if MTG decided to make a product that only features blue and white?" MTG kind of already does this. You are aware of Attribute Specific booster packs, right? It was super useful when I wanted to build decks (or rather collect cards) from specific attributes or with specific strategies in mind. And they did sell products/Decks (at least with the Guilds of Ravnica) that were specifically for each guild. However, at least I can understand what you're trying to say with all this.

WWE Raw Deal has a unique take on this in that the archetype is based on your Superstar card. Barring specific restrictions (listed as part of the Superstar effect), you can put any generic card in your deck. However, some cards are signature moves and can only be packed by that specific Superstar. This makes sense thematically. There is also a sub-archetypes based on Brand (Smackdown/Raw) and Face/Heel. You can only pack cards of one Brand (if you do) and Face/Heel (if you do). Raw Deal is brilliant in that its use of hard rules is mechanically and thematically sound.

When I played vanguard I literally went out of my way to make a deck from every available clan to keep supporting it at my local card shop. I would have to look at the list of clans to remember what ones they were but I had at least 9 decks sitting in my bag while I used my main one.

For vanguard isn't it the Japanese sales that keep them alive? That shit is everywhere here and there are almost no card/game shops. I have to go to Yokohama to find a couple that are the size of a college dorm rooms. Since space is so limited there are very few places that you can play in the store like in the states. Sometimes there will be 2 tables set up but even thats rare and the ones I've seen went under fast. TCG are generally sold at convenient stores (there is a 7/11, lawson, familymart on literally every block)book stores, game stores or electronic stores.

There used to be clan mixing, in the beginning because there was not enough cards in specific clans to make a whole deck around said clan. Extreme fight does exist but nobody plays it since its a weird format. Edit: Seeker Thing Saver Dragon and Revenger Phantom Blaster "Abyss" put the clan fight rule into play. Reason being was cause it Revenger PBA fueled the skill of Thing Saver and allowed them to attack with their middle column (VG's important attack) 3 consecutive times while also filtering the deck

New to your channel, but I'm loving your TCG Design videos. Just watched the first 3 parts, finding it gripping and interesting. As a child i used to create my own card games, i had a few but they mostly mixed elements of other games together. Now i'm trying to create my very own unique game. So far i haven't fallen into any of these holes yet, so it must be going well. My word document is about 10 pages long, i'm not deleating ideas yet, expanding on the concept to see what will work and what will work better. My recent work is only about 3 pages, trying to lay solid foundation plans and work out the intricacies and relationships of play. You've got some good points to consider. The Attributes are tricky to balance, but i think i've got something that will allow a complete card pool and synergies to build exciting combinations.

While I get the whole point that Vanguard's design is inherently bad for local stores but very good for the players (as experienced myself, their format somehow works because nobody just builds one clan), frankly this point won't stand the test of time. Why? Corona has already set the stage for it but a lot of TCGs are attempting to go full digital, and Vanguard Zero also blew up. It was bound to happen but local stores won't stand the test of time regardless of tcg designs

Pretty good series. I was really hoping that these were old videos and the series was finished lol. Will deffinitly keep watching. :D

8:08 That's any card of the Reptile Type in Yu-Gi-Oh. There lucky every 3 years to get 8 new cards. Least all their Support cards work with each other and not Themes though. This was really annoying though Link era since the rules required to no longer need to use Links was three weeks after they printed the only two Reptile Link cards in TCG.

I actually play vanguard at a competitive level and I can tell you its definitely a thing of people huddling around 1 or 2 shops. the reason the game is growing is it is actually a really fun game, it stays in business because it is insanely popular in Japan. Also the shop I went to tends to buy a case maybe at most a d gets rid of most of their stock through weekly tournaments. But during the quarantine I have really kept up.

As a former Vanguard player I can personally attest to the attribute problems in the game. One thing that wasn't even fully talked about was the support of the different clans. Because of how closely tied the card game is the show, there was this problem that the clans played by the main character and their closest allies would see more frequent support throughout the year. The average of seeing support for a clan every 1.5 years was somewhat for the more "unpopular" clans while the clans played by the main character saw support in almost every other set. This leads to the problem as mentioned that if a player only likes or wants to play a particular kind of the deck then they may not even see proper support for it in a year. For example, back in G-era of Vanguard, one of the clans that I wanted to play as Angel Feather saw 3 sets of support at one point for the particular "cycle" while several of the clans played by the hero team saw around 6 sets at the same time and I felt blessed to get that support. Side note: Bushiroad does have sets where they support all of the clans but its not in the same fashion as the normal booster sets.

But, vanguard was going through a reboot tho. So just “starting over” is fine right? They have all these clans but they just give “support” to current clans over others during curtain sets. Like yugioh does this. I wouldn’t just wright off Vanguard because of this. I mean the concept of being able to rep your clan and prove that your clan is the best sounds great to me, every clan gets support or will get support. Things like that take time.

To clarify for vanguard: 1.) there are 24 clans. But there are 3 clans that aren’t counted as they are not legal and are primarily promo only(etranger, the mask collection, union verse) 2.) also the reason why you can’t mix decks is simple. It wasn’t hard locked for a long time but each clan has its own skill set, to which being able to mix made unbeatable combos that you couldn’t guard against(ex. The card silent Tom). The “main character syndrome” you speak of that breaks the rules is there for the simple fact that they existed before the hard lock, and they allowed it so the deck it functions for is still playable for the people who spent money on it If I got something wrong please correct me but he didn’t mention about the pre existing soft lock in vanguard then talks bad about it. I mean this in no disrespect I just wanted to clarify and I love the vids. Otherwise you were quite insightful on the game itself

Would like to point out that Vanguard has changed since then, now it's a total of 6 nations instead of 24 (or more) clans

To be fair to vanguard, the reason we have a hard mixing rule is because they removed the soft mixing rule, gave us free reign for literally 1 core set and 2 extra sets, and then we went and burned the house down. I'm not even talking about the Thing Saver Abyss deck. That unholy abomination (which is the reason ONLY Blaster Dark is allowed in Royal Paladin decks) was the least problematic build. The downright Emperor forsaken, Chaos Blessed HERESY that was the G2 legion mate lineup from the darkest depths of Slanesh's depraved libido will live on as a foul reminder as to why we, the gaming community as a whole, can't have nice things. Emperor protect us all.

I feel like the Japanese and the North American/European TCG markets are so vastly different that it's really hard for cross-pollination to occur. Only a rare game like Yugioh can really capture both. The Japanese market loves this seasonal flash-in-the-pan card churn whereas the western market is always looking for staple cards. Not that there's anything wrong with the Japanese approach - if your market can support it, there's a lot to be said about a game that gets such frequent releases that the meta never settles down into something staid. I just think it comes down to a difference in markets.

i noticed with Vanguard that they had clans that kinda fell into different groups, i feel like if they made it so the group could be used instead of the individual clans it would skyrocket

My god this guy knows SO much about trading cards. Like there’s plenty of people who know a lot about a game or two but it seems like this dude knows everything about every trading card game ever. I’m in awe

I think one game that did unmixable attributes right was Android Netrunner, and that is because from the very beginning Corp and Runners have VERY different playstyle and mechanics and have different methods for winning the game (and yes, even different card backs). that being said, due to the influence system, there was still interplay within runner cards factions and within megacorps respectively. for tournaments they'd get around the difference between corp and runner by requiring players to have 2 decks, 1 corp and 1 runner and the player had to switch off when they play each other.

Someone watched this video and rebooted Vanguard into Overdress

It's overdress era in vg now as i'm watching the videos, now that 24 clans have been merged into 5 nations, it does solves the 1.5 years per new releases per clan problem, to new cards for all 5 nations per few months instead. However i'm not sure if it's just me, but i'm having hard time getting staples of a mere 1-2 sets older cards due to me starting late in overdress era. Even then some staples of a mere common rarity is either too rare for me to obtain by singles, or overpriced due to low supply high demand. What i've been told is that, because of the usual 4-5 clans are now merged into 1 nation as 4-5 archetype, so each of those archetypes are now fighting to include those staples with insufficient prints to cater all the archetypes. Not saying that i hate current vg game design, since it does brings a lot of quality of life changes compared to previous format. But man do i missed the times where trying obtain important staples is relatively easy to obtain and fair priced, because the other 23 clans can't use it.

Vanguard ZERO's launch is probably why more people are interested in vanguard recently

Can confirm right now that Vanguard is growing. as far as i'm aware there was a recent Boom in Singapore and even here in Australia my locals has been growing at a steady pace. as for the release of booster set, they don't really power creep but allow for clans to receive new ways to play their decks. so all in all while yes Vanguard does comite this sin. i would say the state of the game is still pretty healthy

Where did you find that Voldemort Vanguard card? I love it.

Thank you for explaining why I saw a Vanguard poster prominently in my LGS where I play Pokemon, but no products and just events.

I think a big problem for tcgs like lightseekers or warhammer champions is the fact, that there are 5 types/colors of cards, which you can not combine. So you need to buy a display to get the minimum size of cards in one color to build one deck. And then you have to be lucky, if you could match a Combo. That sucks because buying a booster isn't a great help, even if you pick a good card.

yugioh doesn't really care about attributes, rather, its just an additional way to support cards of the same archetype and to not let other strategies use it.

This video comes out, 6 months later Bushiroad merges their entire clan system into 5. Coincidence?

So as a LGS owner with a successful scene for Vanguard (and also a longtime fan of the game) I 100% agree with the concerns brought up. To answer how LGSs have to deal with Vanguard is to have very open communications on what people are interested in to know what to pre-order and what to not. Thankfully, VG is the one game (due *to* its clan nature) where we know very early on in the distribution cycle what clans are going to be in what set. So for example, the next set Silverdust Blaze I ordered a ton for because my playerbase is heavily excited for and planning on grouping together to buy a ton. But the set after that, Butterfly'd Moonlight I'm not getting a lot of because (despite it having popular clans and archetypes) none of my players are interested in it. You can't just buy every set -- you have to know what your players are interested in. Which is confusing for newer stores but I find it similar to them know which YGO sets are going to plummet and suck vs the ones that tend to be amazing and will sell out in an instant. (Also random bit -- VG boxes tend to be super cheap so it helps a bit as well)

I feel like this scale is a big way yugioh has chamged over the years. Initially there was basically nothing stopping you from just putting the best cards together, where now its extremely common for not only the best decks to often be stacking a single strategy but also for the best cards within those strstegies to come with mixing limitations. Its nice having the rare true innovation in deck building when a new tier 0 or tier 1 deck is made by mixing a bunch strategies in likely unforseen ways. I'm jealous of the first person to innovate combo thunder which at the time was called "chaos danger thunder guarddragon combo" mixing 5 different archetypes in surprisingly consistent and explosive way that none were designed for.

6:40 actually the whole segment of this sets having less clans. yeah god forbid people spending more than one deck right?

You know, actually right now, Vanguard is really becoming more popular, newer sets in Japan or the rest of the world are getting sold out even before release date, Bushiroad decided to reprint one of those sets because it wasnt enough for the community. The distribution of cards and skills in every clan is pretty balanced right now, premium and standard format are really fun, and almost every (if not all ) clan has an actual chance of winning. I think you should try Vanguard a bit more...

Its worth mentioning that vanguard is actually bushiroad's most profitable game. Between rabid fans who'll keep buying product (at my locals in a small town in Ontario, we instantly buy up as much product as the STORES can buy) and an aggressive marketing campaign in its home region, it continues to do well since its initial launch in 2011/12

For a game with two specific sides (like the austin powers card game), for a tournament, you generally require people to have decks prepared for both sides, and you have some system of scoring play. That's how Decipher's Star Wars CCG handled it. Every player needs a light and dark side deck, and you will play both.

'vanguard clan doesn't promote clan mixing' Ain't, each clan has a sub clan and archetype where u make a deck mixing each sub clan and archetype. '24?I counted 27' The others clans aren't even real clans, they are promo clans that cannot be used and are as promo cards. The 4 clan per set is good enough. With so much clans, they can't just cater too just one clan, thus there's new support to each clan once a year. 'The product doesn't sell well' Are you sure it's not just only you're States? In Singapore, the sales are high and demand reprints as well that there's a secondary market out here. Not only that, the try 3 trail decks as well as the next stage booster sold out with 2 weeks in japanese and in English, it sold out both the booster and trail decks after a week. It sold out so badly that they have to do a reprint for the Japanese version with promo cards in each trail decks that are all expensive cards. Not only that, the non mixing help to balance out the game easier then mixing. Look at the banlist for vanagurd, there's not alot compared to other cars game as most cards aren't broken. As for tier 0,look at the data, sure there's tier 0 decks, but there are still weaker decks winning or making it into high level tournemnt. Vangaurd is more luck then having op deck. If you're using a op deck but you couldn't use your engine, you lose. On the contrary, if youre using a weak deck but with luck, you're win.

Why doesn’t he sleeve any of his expensive cardboard?

I just found this channel this morning, and it's awesome! Keep it up, bro, you make good content!👍

My local store carries Vanguard and is the only one among several game stores in the area that does. I shared one of Kohdok's videos in the store's discord server and there was a Vanguard player who got big mad at the very mention of him.

Funny thing is agree when vanguard switched to the clan fight rule at the release of G I was upset as some of my favorite g-units weren’t apart of my clan. Extreme fight was fun. We had some decent clan mixing that even saw some competitive success like Freezeray-Angels or Thing Saver Abyss. With the limitation that some powerful vanguards had the lord ability to prevent them from attacking if they had a non-matching clan or even the idea that you required a specific clan on field to use a stronger effect and the idea that you needed a clan on field to activate a trigger effect. Even as someone who loves cardfight I agree I enjoyed having the option of mixing even if it didn’t always allow for crazy combos or as successful decks as dumpling following a sub-clan.

Here's the thing about Vanguard's clan setup though. By spreading support out over a longer time frame, the game becomes more budget friendly. Maintaining one deck costs less money, and stays relevant for longer; and for players who want to invest more money into the game, they can pick up a second clan and use two different decks, reducing the amount of fatigue you get from playing the same deck over and over again. The clan system also reduces power creep by insuring that each strategy type gets roughly the same amount of support, and often in similar ways to other clans, like Mega Blast Units, or Limit Break units that have the +5000 against Vanguard ability after 4 damage, while still offering a clan specific style ability (-ish, they do double up sometimes and just make a clan specific reprint). That's not to say that it's a perfect system. It's real easy to mishandle, and that's why Vanguard is the only game with this setup to have survived nine years with that format in some form or another. (I'd argue Yu-gi-oh has as well, with Archetypes just being informal clans at this point. You can mix weirder support from across Yuges' history, so there's some variety there).

Its growing more popular in Asia rather than western countries is why. (Vanguard)

Based on the Vanguard OverDress Announcement, it seems somebody at Bushiroad saw this video and took notes.

Wow. Just wow. My favorite part of a game is the variety of fighters. I obsess over it. I like the elements of Pokemon. It is called types. I like the classes in World of Warcraft. I like the colors of Magic the Gathering. I don't think attribute is the best word to call this. Attribute is already used for an entirly different mechanics in role playing games. That would be too confusing. An attribute is a passive strength a character has. It effects calculations used in battle. For example the attribtes in World of Warcraft are stamina, strength, agility, intellect and spirit. Maybe distinctions of element, class and color should be called type. The distinction of spell, creature and reasource should be called catagory instead. I am really taking the message of this video to heart. It makes so much sense to me. It also gives me so much encouragement to do what I want to do. Maybe mixing and matching is one of the reasons why the color pie in Magic is so much fun. Imagine how boring and dull the game would be if players were only limited to play a mono color deck. That would be terrible. I am not a fan of mono color decks. I find the concept behind them to be very dull. I usually go for mixing two color in my decks. Mixing three or more sounds interesting. However I am not quite experienced enough to takle it. I experimented with Temur and Jeskai and that's about it. The thing that drew me into the game the most is the guilds of Ravnics. They fascinate me. I also enjoy building decks for all the the guilds. The main thing that distinguishes each guild is the color pair it represents. My favorite guild is Izzet. It has a bizarre combo of two different colors., red and blue. It might be the wierdest. Five guilds are made of opposing colors. Two of them really stand out having very different colors. This is Izzit and Orizov. Both guilds are awesome. Orizhov has a mix of black and white. It seems strange at first. However the adabtable nature of black can still meld with white in terms of mechanics. So an Orizhov deck is like a white deck only with some health draining effects and maybe some graveyard effects. Red and blue is the most enemy of enemy colors. They look strikingly different. They also have the hugest difference in mechanics. Red is about aggro and offense. Blue is about control and defense. Izzit takes these two colors and shoves them together to make a working whole. It has a specialization underneath in focusing on spells, and not focusing on creatures. It is especially good at damage and card draw. I was drawn to Izzit at first because it had a personality and philosophy that I relate to the most. My first deck was an Izzit deck. It is so much fun to play. So I can play the strategic long game and deal extra damage? Yes please. Izzit is awesome. I enjoy the elements, classes and colors. So I would like to mix them up. There are so many more choices for the players. The game can get so deep. It is fun to think about it. I entertain the idea of mixing elements and classes. I wonder how to mix color on top of that. This is my Izzit way. I go nuts with the creativity and experimentation. Just smash any combo together and see what happens. One can even smash fire and water together to form electricity. That is cool. I like the part about primary and secondary attributes. That helps me figure things out. I think this can apply to Magic. The color is the primary attributes. The tribes can work as a secondary attribute. This is things like vampire tribe, merfolk tribe, cat tribe etc. It seems like useless flavor. Then I realize that there are unusual cases of card effects going for a tribe. So people build tribal decks. 13:00 This is a great example of what I am talking about. The Throne of Eldraine set has five kinds of paladin cards. There is one for each color. These paladins have the adiment mechanic. If one uses the enough mana of its color to cast it, it comes with extra benifits. Both paladins shown get a boost in thier power and toughness. So one can pick one paladin and use them in a mono colored deck. One can use other adament cards. Using the legendary ruler of the color would also help. That would be a boost for the mono color deck route. The paladins are also part of the knight tribe. So they can go in a deck with other knight cards. The Throne of Eldraine set has uite a few cards that benifit the knight tribe. Primary and secondary can even go together. White, red and black are the colors that ten to focus on knights. One can do mono color. It can even have both the adament benifit and the knight benifit at the same time. Alternativly one can mix. One can go Orizov, Boros or Rakdos. If one is very adventurous with knight, they can even do Mardu. I noticed that different sets have different mechanics for the same colors. That can add a whole new level of variety. My second favorite guild is Simic. It is blue and green. It has the curiosity an innovation like Izzet. However it differs in focusing more on creature design. There are a lot of variations on a Simic deck. The recent Ravnica block has Simic adapt. War of the Spark had Simic proliferate. Throne of Eldrane had Simic food. There is also Simic ramp and Simic flash. They are not as tied down to a specific set. There are cool possibilities. I just think of something. If color mixing works for Magic the Gathering, it could totally work for the Pokemon card game. The Pokemon video game already have plenty of duel type Pokemon. So that can translate to the Trading card game. For example my favorite dual type is water and ground. It is a mix of two of my favorite types. The mix eliminates all of the weaknesses except for a quadruple weakness of grass. I played with Quagsire and Swampert many a time. I have enjoyed it. Yes. I do like Mudkips. It is actually my favorite starter except Pikachu. This can translate to the card game. This combo would be a mix of water and fighting. Maybe both of them can be used in energy costs. One can build a whole water and fighting deck. That would be cool. I say fighting because it is a mix of fighting, rock and ground. The types in the card game are fewer, and they lump similar types together. I havn't played Pokemon in a long time. So I don't know whether this was done already.

I feel attacked. I play vanguard competitively. . .

so 3 years later Vanguard cut down on the nations and Digimon became increasingly more archetypal. What a world!

0:22 that ProZD reference there. I play cool cow because he's got sunglasses

I actually never looked at Vanguard's Clan system that way...