TF2 Step 1: Make a PvP shooter. Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat. Step 3: Get a rampant cheating problem. CS2 Step 1: Make a PvP shooter. Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat. Step 3: Get a rampant cheating problem. Deadlock Step 1: Make a PvP shooter. Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat. Step 3: ??? Why are they like this
TF2’s so old, it’s more like: Step 1: Make PvP shooter Step 2: it becomes one of the best multiplayer games of all time Step 3: after 10 years, let it rot Step 4: your anti-cheat gets outdated and game gets infected by cheaters Step 5: still take people’s money for new microtransactions Step 6: repeat steps 4 and 5 ad infinitum.
@@Brother_Piner step 5.5: add more microtransactions instead of events ro content ... step 7: community has enough, protests. step 8: "we are working on it!" step 9: update the anticheat. step 10: repeat steps 4 to 5. and if the #fixtf2 geos the way it is supposed to be going, then : step 11: community protest stops giving money. step 12: money lost. step 13: actually start doing something. that is of course if they just don't work around it, or ignore it.
Do you prefer kernel level anti-cheat? Because that's the next step they have to go to just to try to get cheaters caught. Kernel level anti-cheat is more intrusive then vac anti-cheat.
@@pyerack yeah, even cosmetic only nobody should be forced to gamble to get the hat they want. I bought all my hats from the marketplace but them being there means someone bought a lootbox key to get it.
Market oversaturation and derivative content plays a large role in that. Well, also the fact that most of these games are merely vessels for microtransaction/lootbox/virtual economies. They have it down to a science what kind of shit people are willing to put up with/the bare minimum they have to do to make money. Creativity isn't really the point of these.
Just a reminder Valve wasted thousands on this garbage while continuing to let their successful titles like Team Fortress 2 wallow away due to neglect..
@@XxXNOSCOPEURASSXxX it's "updated" 3 times a year with lootboxes. Valve has an official Steam page and hosts official servers for it. They expect you to dump money into it. It's an active, live-service product. Don't strawman with "you're just mad your old game isn't getting major content updates!" That's not the issue. The issue is the game literally cannot be played due to a 5 year and going infestation of cheating bots. I am incapable of booting up and playing the game. That is unacceptable
@@x_hiberniadude they’re literally making hl3 my man. Hl3 is gonna be like gta6. Full lockdown. No info is going to be allowed to be put out. Valve can’t risk a leak so it’ll be announced a year or two before completion. My theory anyway
@@its_radit Just because he doesn't play a couple of their popular games doesn't mean he's a hater. I don't play CS or Dota either, but that's because they aren't games that appeal to me. I'm not a fan of tactical shooters, and, while I've not played one, I've never been a fan of the concept of MOBAs. I still love their other games though, and can appreciate what Valve has done to innovate in the industry.
The bot count on TF2 is disturbing. The constant DDoS attacks L4D2 faces is frustrating. The hacking in CS2 is downright unacceptable. Valve's been complacent for too long, and needs to be called out.
playing left 4 dead 2 (versus) these days feels like hanging out with a bunch of rude strangers, in a minefield, while playing a high stakes poker game where there a no chips or rewards for winning, and only your gamer honor to lose. Also the savetf2/fixtf2 guys are just pitiful, stop crying and start donating to community devs or something.
@@BeerCanBennytheIV I never thought someone could describe L4D2 versus so accurately, its always been like this, unless you got friends to play with (pain in the ass to find 8 willing individuals that arent dickheads for a full lobby) its always gonna feel like everyone on that lobby is on edge. The FixTF2 thing i see is like a last ditch effort to try to convinve Valve to maintain their servers, but there is a huge percent of the playerbase who only play Official servers and never bother with communiry servers even though they're ultimatemy gonna be the thing that will keep TF2 running in the long run, they treat TF2 like its a modern day game and forget that its an old source engine multiplayer game and its a miracle Valve is even bothering with official servers.
@@Source121 Overblown my ass, anything above top 5% percentile is infested with cheaters You're probably the gold nova projecting, I was global and I have been around 18k in cs2 playing with friends and it is absolutely fucking infested with cheaters, while faceit and similar third party services only have the occasional cheater (and they usually get banned, while by VAC they don't) And if 18k is infested I cannot imagine how 20k+ is, probably a cheater in nearly every match, it's probably rarer to get a cheat free match than a match with a cheater, they have verifiably absurd inhuman leetify stats very often and they go unbanned for months, if not years.
@@youbaouahdi4358 People always conveniently forget that TF2 is still being actively monetized by VALVe, till this day, you can expect cosmetics being dropped on the game 3 TIMES A YEAR complete with cases, new unusual effects and taunts so you can gamble away all your payday, all of it community made slop that's either not in touch with the games artstyle or down right not working, while at the same time ignoring one of the most blatant hackers we've ever seen in VG history only because they are too lazy to do something that will actually work, any other company would've been burned at the stake for this, but VALVe made Half-Life 25 years ago so they can't do no wrong. Community servers are going to be the future eventually, but until then VALVe in no point or opportunity has confirmed that they ceased development of TF2, until then we can expect them to at least fix the blatant and most playerbase damaging issues that pop up here and there, no one behind #SAVETF2 is expecting for VALVe to also do the teased Heavy update or rebalance certain weapons to be more useful or fun, we just want for the vanilla game to be playable for many reasons, community servers aren't perfect either and you can't expect every single type of player to just go over to community servers when the browser sucks and looks super ugly, the servers could have changed any number of gameplay values, they could reserved spaces that either won't let you ocupy while joining or you get kicked because someone that donated money to the server patreon wants to join, and the servers withouth this problem tend to attract the kidn of people that have 10K+ hours put into the game that wil stomp you and make your stay on said server miserable, it just makes more sense to fix the official public servers since, again, the issue is so blatant it stoped being funny years ago.
As someone who's played in the closed beta for this game, Tyler's comment about it being like basically every other Valve game combined is grossly incorrect. The game that Deadlock is closest to being is like Smite from Hi-rez but you have freedom to aim in all directions. Deadlock has no elements from TF2 or CS. It's just a 3rd person over the shoulder MOBA.
Tyler is a bad source honestly. He made a bunch of fuss and clickbait saying "VALVE IS SUING FANS!!!" when in reality it was people straight stealing tf2 source code and another group getting told by valve to not piss off Nintendo. Then refused to edit the video,
Valve went from creating a new genre post-DOOM/QUAKE, to ripping of genres that were *already* ripped off of the games *they made* that started these genres in the first place. From trend setter to trend follower. *Pathetic.*
its insane to think that valve is making ANOTHER multiplayer pvp game when their 2 biggest, TF2 and CS2 are BOTH being destroyed by hackers and cheaters and neglect because valve considers anti-cheat to be "treadmill work" that isn't worth doing. How the hell can they expect people to dedicate time and energy to a new multiplayer game when they've shown us that they don't care to actually take care of their multiplayer games on even the most basic level.
it aint even treadmill work lol, community servers with their SMAC and STAC are hard cock-blocking tf2 cheating, restricting even the best cheats to low fov aimbot (barely useful lol), clientside visuals and ESP. can bots really work on those AC? No. Can you code a cheat that lets you use every current feature without getting banned on STAC? No. It's not treadmill work, you dont need to make an anticheat that bans every cheat and every cheater. you need something like STAC that doesnt let you shoot 270 degrees away from your camera, like bots do, doesnt let you fake player angles (anti-aim), like bots do, doesnt let you perform pixel-frame perfect movement, like bots do. let cheaters play the game, they're really not that good and they never were a problem in a game that isnt even about shooting all that much, its move about movement and teamwork than anything
@@tehjamerz I KNOW, some of the employees at Valve tried to force the old heads to make a PR response during the Black Lives Matter movement. WHY?! VALVE IS A VIDEO GAME COMPANY, WHO CARES WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY! Gabe understands this and so he gave his employees $100k each to donate to whatever charity they wanted. He had to give them hush money, this company is fucked!
@@RambunctiousRaccon I never got the idea of big companies trying to make a statement about any political affairs. Most of the time it's so horribly executed and makes them look out of touch. I thought Valve was better than this, but you could say that for anything they've done for the past few years.
@@tehjamerz I've heard that Valve employees are jealous that the TF2/CS2 community does a better job at creating and maintaining Valve's games than Valve. I'm starting to think that's true because there's no excuse for these issues to remind for so long. Unless modern Valve wants to do away with the other games and replace it with this Dota Dota Overwatch slop no one enjoys.
@@RambunctiousRaccon How many of the devs that made TF2 will work at valve? If it is close to none then i can see why valve does not want to work on it.
Valve games: TF2: Neglect CS2:Neglect Half-life:don't care Potral:forgoten Dota:only one they didn't forget Day of defeat:Lost to history Left 4 dead: forgoten Alien Swarm:exists
Rants about valves new title that is still in development hasn't played the beta bases nearly all opinions on 4 screenshots and a couple clips of someone playing the tutorial with no other players mentions only valves failures the past few years likely intentionally doesn't mention half-life: alyx likely intentionally doesn't mention aperture desk job doesn't mention how much longer they already supported tf2 than any other AAA dev mentions Erik wolpaw leaving (he's been back at valve since hla) conveniently barely hiding the text that says he returned at 20:53 same exact thing for jay pinkerton many such cases.
I agree. Though I personally still cannot say that Valve have been good as a company for the past decade. Because they mostly either made pretty good games for the hardware that is only available for rich people (both VR and Steam Deck), or they simply focused on profit from Steam and microtransactions in multiplayer games. Like, the only games that most people can afford are CS2, Dota 2, TF2 (now its hardly playable because of the bots), and the singleplayer games that were released in 1998-2011! It would be great if they would also make some more singleplayer games for PC and/or consoles. But for now it doesn't seem like an options in the near future.
Yeah this video sucks. I don't get the point of making a video of just being "hey here's what this guy said and I'm angry" Like I get it, I wanna get on the hate valve bandwagon too but like... this ain't it.
I have a problem with your TF2 point, Valve absolutely deserves all the condemnation they’ve gotten over their terrible handling of a bot crisis in a game that they still pump new paid content into even though they are unwilling to properly maintain their own servers. Also WoW has been supported by Blizzard for longer so that point about Valve supporting TF2 longer than any other AAA game is incorrect, other games will also soon surpass or have already surpassed TF2 in how long they’ve been fully supported by their devs (remember TF2 had significant Valve development from around 2007-2017) games like World of Tanks and even Fortnite are getting close to or have already surpassed TF2’s active development so Valve deserves no praise there
"Half Life Alyx and Aperture Desk Job" A game most people didn't play either because they couldn't afford to, or didn't want buy a vr headset for 1 game, and a 5 minute tech demo. Also why shouldn't Valve maintain TF2 AND CSGO when they still make money off them?
The most baffling thing is, Valve is a private company who runs the largest games platform on PC with a massive revenue stream. They don't HAVE to do this, they don't HAVE to pump out cash grab trend following games, they have an effective blank check to make literally whatever they want and not even care about the sunk cost. They can literally make anything but they've become stale and creatively bankrupt
The inverse truth of it is that they don't HAVE to make games period, so of course a company that has effectively abandoned game making as their primary output is going to lose the talented people that actually want to make video games, the talent that made the Valve name what it is today.
Thats why I dont think this game will see the light of day. Beta testing the hell of the game is pretty normal practicd at valve. That doesnt mean that this wont be scrapped.
yeah! unlike a publicly traded company that has to maximise shareholder profit, Valve is allowed to do literally anything they want to do as long as they don't go bankrupt, which is guaranteed to basically never happen given the amount of money they make from Steam. furthermore, a controlling share of the company is owned by Gabe Newell - ie. the man who was in charge of the company when it was a small studio making the original Half Life. I don't understand why an artist, who has uncontested control of a private company, which already has a massive and stable stream of revenue, wouldn't be more interested in using those resources to create things people enjoy
It's baffling to me that Valve can't figure out how to make anti-cheat to save their lives, yet are making another multiplayer online shooter that is supposed to be played in esports. CSGO and TF2 are pretty much unplayable in pubs due to cheaters. Can't wait to see the bot swarms that will infect Deadlock lol
The main reason Valve games have become notorious for cheating is because Valve is trying to be non-invasive with their products. Steam does not force a strong DRM on you (except when publishers do), and similarly CS and TF2 don't come with invasive anti-cheat, and most of their games are on Linux etc. The only deterrent to cheating problem IMHO is slapping a 70$ price tag on multiplayer games with perma-ban and active moderation going on ban sprees. It might sound like I'm defending Valve here, but this is entirely a problem they cooked for themselves by inventing the F2P model. TLDR online gaming is fucked
@@r.g.thesecond Another thing is, cheating is getting more advanced as time goes Back then, it's just a simple cheat engine script Fast forward now, cheats now runs at kernel level, and gaming companies retaliate by making kernel level AC In the future? Hardware based cheat I bet, and how are they gaming companies gonna counter that?
It’s deeply depressing that a company who made their name through doing brilliant things no one ever thought of (“let’s release a toss-off pack-in puzzle game that’s secretly a grand satirical epic” or “what if game, but also *physics*) is just chasing trends now without trying to understand what people like about those trends. It’d be a little like the Disney parks just deciding to do whatever Six Flags is doing, but the only actual innovation is that you get to ride a coaster while eating bad food next to a guy in a Bugs Bunny costume *all at once.*
"Let's mix a 60's themed dress up game with a fighting minigame, a tactical shooter which is the grandfather of its genre, a hero shooter with abilities, a fantasy top-down MOBA, and some other shit with no anticheat whatsoever, and see how well it'll do."
@@hellwire4582 so what you're saying... is that no one knows anything. Maybe we should consider acting like it then. Instead of farting out hot air. If it is shit it is shit if it aint it aint. Until then just go do something else.
@@M1ndblast Dude smoke less crack and wirte comments that relate to what was written instead of randomly typing something based upon one word. Maybe you are just a bot and writing comments nowadays is just a massive waste of time. Actually no a bot would write an answer that somewhat makes sense so you must be a human.
@@hellwire4582There is a closed beta with 9000+ players. The game is not like that. It is quite fun tho. You all need to stop whining that valve isn't making YOUR next favorite game. Let someone else do that. I for one don't NEED the most innovative game of all time, which is a weird expectation many ppl seem to have to have. I just need the game to be fun and have a soul. This game is fun already and on track for the latter lol.
Remember that there were multiple TF2s before they released TF2. There is like a 90% chance that whatever this is would have quietly ended up in the dumpster and a new attempt started up without us ever knowing if not for leaks.
What? Rockstar released arguably the largest game ever only a few years ago with Red Dead 2 and they currently have a full team working on what's looking to be most ambitious game ever with GTA 6. They're a studio that actually keep pushing the boundaries of what's possible in video games, something Valve hasn't attempted in years bar Alyx.
@@oldyearstillme Lmao, they abandoned Red Dead Online. The RDO community did the same exact thing as the TF2 community did and Rockstar still didn't care. TF2 is going down the same path.
How a grown man manages to jerk off his own ego and infantilize developers at the top of their industry this easily over a secondhand description of a game he hasn't played, with zero clue how game development or design works, is baffling to me
The thing about Valve was that they released a game only when they had a technological break through as a foundational reason to. Half Life 1 was about the transition to fully 3D environments, Half Life 2 was about the debut of in-game physics simulations, Half Lify Alyx was an attempt to explore VR gaming. The problem is that they became so profitable as a games distributor that I think it took focus away from pushing technological game advancements and then because of the massive release cycle, people quit or retired and eventually all those people deeply passionate about games got cycled out for people who were more geared towards game distribution and with that Value lost the ability to make the iconic games they used too.
thats why that part of technological breakthough are now geared towards their hardware division. their lack of hierarchy except for gabens final word and its hands-free approach to development where one dev could spend its time at Valve only working on prototypes that will never be released its also a problem that doomed released games unless two or more devs are interested on maintaing or fixing a game (like it happened with HL1 25th anniversary update).
Not exactly. Like, you're correct with those specific examples, but sometimes it was more about a good game design concept as much as it was about tech. Like, Left 4 Dead WAS about the "Director AI" or whatever, automatically tuning and subtlely altering a map's enemy and item distribution to better tune the experience, but it was ALSO just about creating an interesting game design dynamic of a cooperative episodic *narratively focused* online shooter, which hadn't really been done before. Portal was about the portal tech, which had been done before, but not so flexibly (in Prey specifically), but it was ALSO about telling a funny story and trying to make an FPS without it being about the "S" so much, since you weren't shooting all your problems away (or at least not directly). These were games where the tech shift was minor, but the game design shift was actually much more novel and interesting. So Valve needed to have at least SOME kind of "big new idea" at the core of the game for them to find it interesting enough to make, but it wasn't *necessarily* just a tech based idea.
@@fantastikboom1094 Half lifes break through was in the innovative approach to story telling, where most other games where just gimmicky arena shooters with barely any story.
Valve had rivalry with Blizzard and Epic Games on multiple layers. Dota 2 vs DotA/HotS TF2 vs Overwatch Half Life vs Unreal Steam vs Epic Games Store Each of the three influenced eachother greatly. There's also id's influence because Gabe worked on porting Doom to Windows. Later Half Life also fought with Quake 2/3. Also what's important is an idea of "Ship of Theseus". These companies are no longer what they used to be despite calling themselves the same name.
“Gee, it’s almost like the biggest companies make the worst crap.” -A lot of people for a very good reason Valve’s legacy is being absolutely destroyed by morons. We are like Chell and potatoized GLaDOS in the bowels of Aperture while the fools have the run of the place… Unfortunate that Gaben is too busy sleeping on his money mattress to establish any order. Actually, he’s more like pre-recorded Cave Johnson at this point. The CEO of soundbytes and memes.
Everyone keeps going on about #FixTF2 hoping for Valve to give them an answer or anything. Valve has already given their answer, its Deadlock. They have no intention of fixing TF2.
I kinda see a world where when Deadlock fails and all the Deadlock devs are really in hero shooter mood and start getting the urge to remake TF in Source 2. Just a dream of mine.
I wouldn't put Valve and Bungie into the same category lmao. Valve is doing fine for themselves, even if they make games that you might not enjoy. Bungie, on the other hand...
@@minestar2247 That's the point. I'm being sarcastic. Some of the best games out there are combinations of genres but this video acts like that indicates no real vision.
Valve the private company without shareholders to please and an infinite money printer called Steam, that can maintain their games to the highest standards and who could release pieces of art, still somehow manages to do the exact opposite of what they could do.
Bruh, you spent a ton of time making this video, in order to make me sit there for 20 minutes listening to you ranting "nah, bro I don't like the idea. I just hate the lanes and dota and nah i dont like it" with no facts or data, no gameplay mechanics or gameplay videos
Imagine not uderstanding that when beta testers say "it's like a mix of these games" they don't litterary mean the devs slamed these games together and called it a day. When a beta tester says something like that , it means that they can see inspiration taken from these games. Like: Who said that the game being compered to CS means it's gritty and realistic? It might be just refering to the feel of the guns.
Fix needs to fix/keep updating the games that literally got them where they are, if they weren't so devoid of seeing what the people want then we would have like 5 new games by now
Ehh Id rather it go to them than pretty much any of the other big gaming companies. While when it comes to making games valve has rly dropped off by letting their older titles pretty much rot. But on the other hand the people at valve working on steam deck and linux i think are doing outstanding work without them i wouldn’t be able to play like 90% of the gamess i play and allows me to pretty much ditch windows and not deal with all of Microsofts BS
I stopped buying games through steam years ago. you can 90% of the time get them cheaper elsewhere, and your money doesnt go to this rotting, dead company that doesnt care about you or the games they abandoned.
I think i fundamentally think your hot take is kind of bad. that's Not every game that everyone makes is a banger, especially in the multiplayer genre, especially after it gets played for long periods of time. I actually think pub tf2, is kind of a shit game, competitively with competitive rulesets, its one of the most fun games ive ever played. But default pub tf2 kind of sucks. It's a bunch of people in servers with no concept of coordination or roles kind of just doing their own thing, teamwork is so far off the table in the average server that it feels like people are annoyed that they would have to stop staring dead eyed in a corner while they repair their sentry gun, not caring if they win or lose. If that is the kind of experience, that valve is "saving", and that is what public tf2 is, atleast for me has been for years i kind of don't give a shit. What is the captivating gameplay of tf2 that you guys experience on the regular? Was it due to the game and game design, or was it a cool casual game to hang out with friends and chat a bit with? Sure, you could also just chill in a discord and talk to random people. And i kind think you are alone in this, tf2 has had more or less the same player numbers for 10 years, and they are around 10-12 percent of dota 2's player numbers. Dota 2, even if you dislike it, is an amazing game, CS, is an amazing game. Artifact failing? so what, it was a card game that failed? clearly not a huge project with alot of resources behind it, and valve cut thier losses and went on. Valve also made the steamdeck, an amazing piece of engineering as well as early competent vr, and one of the best VR experiences in half life alyx. Dota 2 is constantly changing up its meta and game and keeping its player base reasonably happy. You may just be older now, and know what kind of games you like, that's fine. I hope that valve creates a captivating hero shooter that is fun, i actually am excited about it. Valve is actually a pretty competent company when it comes to gameplay. Hillariously, i think tf2s in practice gameplay, to kind of be shit, ill take lootbox filled gameplay that i completely ignore with a tight captivating gameplay experiences, over a server with 6 snipers just fucking about, a battle medic that is high as hell in the corner, the 2 people in the server that actually want to take the point and do some battle. The tight narrative driven games that valve created are not it's core business model, It wants games that are highly captivating and engaging that will keep you on its platform, so they can take thier 30 percent when you buy other things on the store. And i would love if valve made tight narrative games again, but the incentives aren't really made for that.
As someone said - Valve has corporate ADHD. They are unable to keep taking care of their games for the long run (like TF2). They constantly make projects that they won't finish (infamously: Episode 3) And obviously the one garbage project that requires the least attention from them - Deadlock, is the one they're focusing on.
@@me67galaxylife there have been like 30 attempts at making HL(E)3 The issue is, they have a work ethic that lets employees work on something else if they want to
@@minestar2247 It's why personally I think that deadlock at the very least has people who want to work on it there, and that at it's core it will probably be pretty good for what it is. Unfortunately, it's going to die because of a lack of support.
@@bow-89 No, the problem is that the "higher-ups" (veterans) don't want you to work on something that they're not interested in. As such, if you don't want your pay to get cut, or get fired altogether, towards the end of the year when it's time to get rated, everyone leaves "unimportant projects"
@@speemus6223 Does it really or are you just following the bandwagon of shitting on Overwatch over-zealously. I dont even like Overwatch i dont play it and dont like it but i dont see how people are saying this game looks better
I feel like this video is cherry picked. While I'm also disgruntled with Valve's adandonment with their titles we can't just brush off how much Valve has contributed in the VR space for the past 10 years. Half Life Alyx was a ground breaking title and their VR Headsets are top notch in the industry. I wouldn't call Valve incompetent it's just a matter of their priorities are somewhere else. And considering how Valve operates in terms of re-acculating resources and development it makes sense.
it truly baffles me that a company that literally has no shareholder pressure, and is possibly set for super life is trend chasing just like the rest of 'm.
@@Faygo2215 ah thanks, it’s from Collective Unconscious! Which is an online multiplayer fangame of Yume Nikki! Super duper niche stuff, they’re all nothing but pixelated walking sims that take place in dreams connected via nonsensical means, but they’re like the ultimate format for putting cool pixel art in games! It’s definitely NOT everyone’s cup of tea, but i like it at least lol
I dont know what made you think most people think hero shooters are a joke, apex, valorant, siege, and overwatch are all hero shooters. They are also easily all top 8 fps in the US right now
because all of those games you listed get clowned on so much, thats why. even if they are super popular they all are known for having questionable types of people in their playerbases.
who? Also, top 8? Blizzard hid the player count for a reason, and when they landed on steam the OW fanbase is so tiny that it got dunked on immediately lol
lmao what does that even mean? Replacement in what way? They dont give a single crap about tf2 and after playing deadlock its very obvious that this game has absolutely nothing to do with it. Though tf2 is influential, insufferable tf2 fans overstate that and think that its on everyones minds 24/7, but its really not..
This game has very little to do with TF2... This comment is a circlejerk within a video that is a circlejerk ("I watched 1 video..."). Deadlock is a moba.
Valve just forgot that what makes their games unique is the fact that they are simple to understand, simple to play and to watch. Creating a new thing because some new genres are poppin up is not the right thing to do.
Deadlock is Dota with the RTS mechanics replaced with shooter mechanics, it's that simple. All the Dota mechanics that were not inherited from RTS are there, it's just the perspective and the way you move and attack enemies that's third person shooter-based. Not saying it's going to be good, but anyone who tells you it's a nonsensical mashup of overwatch/tf2/counterstrike is an idiot because it plays absolutely nothing like any if those games. It's Dota + TPS.
"Last five or six years" My guy there have been signs the industry would go the way it has without course correct since the 2010s. A bit late to the party.
The situation is even worse. The entire "Deadlock" IP was almost last minute, as just a month or 2 ago, it was originally "Neon Prime" and was set to be a "cassette-future" sorta aesthetic. Not to mention the lead dev IceFrog, the main dev for Dota 2, seemingly left the project as he's been working on Dota 2 this whole time. This game is set to either be the most hilarious failure of all time, or a miracle child for Valve.
Valve employes can chose there what to work on, the are not put on a game they chose to work on it. So Iceforg working on Deadlock, got an idea for Dota and went to work on that game. Sometimes they just stop working on a game.
uhhh no it was definitely not cassette futurism, idk abt citadel maybe that looked cool but neon prime’s art direction looked like complete a55, overwatch but 1000x more soulless, so glad they changed it. Still looks kinda mid sadly.
The way I described Deadlock in a conversation is that it's a Hero Shooter trend chaser by the company that invented the genre. It's absolutely delusional to create a new IP based on a genre that you invented instead of using the IP you already have.
It kinda reminds me of the 343i-era Halo titles. Halo basically invented the modern console FPS, standardizing many things now taken for granted (2 weapon limits, regenerating health, grenades/melee being a "hotkey" rather than a separate weapon you need to swap to, aim assist/magnetism, etc.), to a generic trend-chaser trying to do whatever's popular at the time. (Halo 4 tried to copy COD which was at it's peak at the time, Halo 5 tried to copy Titanfall which was at it's peak at the time, Halo: Infinite tried to copy the generic Ubisoft open-world slop which was at it's peak at the time, etc.) Halo at least has the excuse of the rights being given to a new company that was, by their own admission and in their own words, consisting of "people who hated Halo".
valve the company that has been praised for its originality and constant new IPs for decades is now being bashed for not just reusing the same old IP's and doing nothing new? would you rather valve made a cashgrab with an old IP because they know it would get lots of money instantly just because its a beloved IP like every other game developer does??
I see a lot of people dismiss Half-Life Alyx because it's a VR game saying things like "it doesn't count as a Half Life game", but having actually played the game it makes the current situation Valve is in so much worse because even if it's not the best Half Life game, they CLEARLY still have the ability to make excellent games. They CLEARLY still care about the worlds they've created, they just don't want to work on them, and it hurts to watch.
they were just in the middle of developing a vr game and just so happens to realized that they can slap the half life IP onto it for a safe bet. Half-Life Alyx is one of the games alright.
"Nothing exciting for the past decade" Someone is living under a rock. > index >steam deck >Alyx >CS2 >linux, proton support At least stay somewhat fair, jeez
The first example is a VR headset that not many can afford, the second seems ok, the third requires VR, the fourth example is cs2 is merely a graphical update and lastly, a vast majority of steam users use windows and idk what proton is. You have too much optimism regarding valve.
Ok, let’s see >not a game, costs more than most can afford >not a game, costs more than most can afford >glorified tech demo >soon to be abandoned graphical update of Csgo >something that should have been done 10 years ago Valve are lazy as fuck and are desperate to target the zoomer dopamine addict market.
The lanes of dota the toxic community of cs and dota the flashy over the top effects of overwatch and the bot problem of tf2 all mixed together in one game sounds like hell.
And then VALVe goes full Thanos and says: "finally, i have them all" If the rumors are true, then Deadlock seems like the Infinity Gauntlet of "Awful video game aspects"
@@davisdf3064 Lets think of it this way, they could have better maintened there ips or used a few moba style class roles in a otherwise tf2 esc game but instead they made this, Valve lost there way and this game is the final proof to remove all doubt.
@@minestar2247 A case study of how not to add moba inspired mechnics to shooter games, well there is right way to that grafting togather conflicting elements isn't it.
I feel like DOTA2 and its competitive brainrot has eroded Valve, for some reason they think that if whatever they make doesn't contain at least some aspect of DOTA then it will fail.
I agree mostly with what you've said, but my man. Every shooter map has lanes, corridors and sidewalks. TF2 for example mostly have one lane or 3 lane map. Also, I am a fan of CSGO, Dota 2 and TF2, but still after that I wouldn't play Deadlock.
1) Genre mashing is an incredible way to make innovative games! You are trashing on it with no explanation! I'm baffled by the comparison with food because it doesn't apply to games AT ALL. 2) You keep saying Valve "haphazardly" mashed all these games together, but how exactly do you know Valve did it hapahazardly? Valve hasn't released a single game haphazardly (kinda maybe CS2, but that's like 1 out of 16) 3) From what I've seen, Deadlock isn't just another hero shooter. It seems to be leaning into the Moba elements far more than anyone has ever done. It is more comparable to Smite than anything else (least to CS). 4) Hero shooters aren't dead. See Valorant. 5) Did you actually do a poll on the venn diagram of moba and hero shooter players. I think the intersection is bigger than people think. Also, Deadlock wouldn't be catering to the intersection, but the union of the circles. Or at least the intersection + the hero shooter players because on face value it still is a hero shooter. You just dont seem to like Mobas and are superficially offputted by genre mashing and are preemptively calling the game "garbage", and I didn't hear a single good argument as to why.
I'm in a fickle spot with Deadlock. On one hand, when Valve actually finishes a product, it is clearly something they are passionate about enough to cross the finish line. Due to their unconventional structure, they only give attention to something they are internally enjoying. So I'm happy to see anything they do, and what breakthroughs they felt they uncovered to warrant a release. Even if it isn't for me, I want to see the effort. On the other hand, the precedent they have set on their own games alone is horrific. As many have seen, Team Fortress 2 is absolutely suffering while still receiving community content and official server support. That should fall under false advertising in my opinion to willingly keep up a broken product with everyone making it public how broken it is. Counter-Strike 2 had its own well documented cheater wave which I think is being tackled, but I don't know everything. So it's clear the PvP market is suffering enough from cheaters alone, so that ends any hype I would have for Deadlock. And Valve makes it clear that they don't have any remorse for abandoning their games, let alone simply communicating that they want to abandon something. I'd feel so much closure if they just said they were done with TF2 and dropped it, instead of keeping it up to be exploited, but that's just me. As Emp discussed, I don't think I'm the target audience for whatever Deadlock is going for, it sounds alien to me. I am not sure who the target audience actually is. Though I am excited to see the reception, positive or negative, moreso than the actual game. I want to see how the room reads it, but I don't think I'll support it. I wish their priorities were elsewhere. I wish them the best, but I'll only tune in from afar.
"when Valve actually finishes a product" I'm gonna have to stop you right there. I'm Joking. But doesn't it seem like Valve fears closing out the stories they create?
I don't expect Deadlock to have a huge marketing campaign like Valve's major titles of the past. Valve making forgettable projects isn't really anything new. It all starts with Ricochet, then Day of Defeat, Alien Swarm (actually a banger, deserves a sequel), VR stuff, and of course Artifact. I'd even add Dota 2 despite it's popularity, since it's so far off from what they're known for. I see this more as Icefrog's game than Valve's, and I think they do too. So when they go about revealing and advertising this game, they should probably avoid trying to hype it up and release it low-key. Like Alien Swarm, it could basically say "we developed this game to test out our new hires capabilities" in the first line of the description.
Based off of the precedent Valve has set, TF2 will receive whatever CS2 receives after an extended period of time, as long as the playerbase exists. For example, V-Script and 64bit support was recently (in TF2 terms) added. Perhaps CS2's AI-powered anti cheat that they're working on will bleed into TF2, and that's why they haven't addressed it. But to let the game rot with zero word on the future of the game isn't right, even if the game WAS playable on official servers.
I was feeling down, and then I saw a new downward diary was posted and the downward spiral sucked me in. Now I'm still heading downwards, but I'm upside down now.
Really, I think it's down to "what are the long term prospects for this game?" The biggest killer of DeadSLOP is not that it has no audience, but that it's run by nu-Valve who has proven for the past decade that they can't manage the live service games they have, and actively work to undermine what made them great. Even Robin Walker refuses to do anything to save the franchise he created. They're nothing but trend chasers and a handful of the lazy old visionaries, who keep releasing unfinished games into a saturated market years after the trends peaked. The character designs don't even match because they re-did the game's artstyle three times! Even then, a cool setting alone won't save the product from Valve's negligence or the cheaters who follow them.
@@slamjam7676 That's fair enough, but most of those are secondary additions and aren't essential to the game, vs. a proper hero shooter where (almost) every class has a set of cooldown skills
@@Pimploaf_YTPcooldown skills don't define an entire genre, it's such a broad mechanic that's existed in plenty of other genres long before hero shooters
@@Pimploaf_YTPcooldown skills don't define an entire genre, it's such a broad mechanic that's existed in plenty of other genres long before hero shooters.
Bro is hating on the burger-taco-sushi-pizza SO HARD and he obviously hasnt even tried it. That's ok,... more for me. _wipes chunky vomit from moustache_
(Its actually more or less ready to be launched, but its being delayed for investor call purposes) Edit: Holy absolute fuck the Redditards are at my throat over this. I made a joke. Take the fart neutralizer out your ass and laugh for once, jeez. You guys are the reason why TF2 got abandoned.
the problem with artifact could be described in 3 points 1. we had already been waiting for a new concept or ip for years already after all the canceled projects 2. the monetization system they had in place just was never gonna work 3. and it was released at the wrong time considering people were already getting exhausted with the genre and its bloat at the time deadlock could be a very fun game potentially better then its peers but the breaker for me is they were doing this while 2 of their big multiplayer games where going down the shitter teamfortress and counter strike had to die for this to come out i like the steampunk aesthetic but i dislike the current artstyle i'll try it but the fact they sacrificed tf2 for this shit will always sour it for me
History repeats itself (sorta). Does people know, that TF2 was disliked being a TFC with a cartoonish coat? It was called like that by QTF/TFC players- NOT TF2 players. Current TF2 playerbase consists only from newcomers who don't know what's even TFC is and how it plays. Same will be with Deadlock, it will have it's own playerbase in the future.
If Valve cannot maintain their current games, what hope does a consumer possibly have that they’ll maintain Deadlock more than 3 years after release? Also, It’s honestly mind boggling that a company like Valve, who deliberately stayed a private company for creative reason, have drummed up something so dull and uninspired. It’s a slap in the face to both TF2 and CS2 fans who were under there impression that Valve were working on something special.
cs2 and dota 2 being at some of the highest numbers theyve been for awhile? dota 2 the game that has had a massive updates recently that are loved by the community? crownfall is regarded as one of the best updates. Get over tf2. It's 17 year old dead game with the same pool of 1000 autists
@@augustinehuizing6683 Well at least just Half-Life. It's dirty but it has an air of cartooniness to it. It tried to be as grounded and realistic as it could be on the tech available and that produced an ugly but extremely lovable and memorable style. It doesn't look like TLoU or CoD, it despite mainly aiming for realism is recognizable as Half-Life and not just Realistic. It's like Breaking Bad. Despite being grungy and realistic and shot in a very similar way to a lot of other gritty TV Drama's, not only does Breaking Bad have some admittedly goofy moments you don't immediately notice because of how well the story gets you engaged, but also iconic visual motifs like the New Mexico filter. Unrealistic isn't always stylish and realistic isn't always styleless. Half-Life's style isn't just "Realistic", it's Dirty and Grimy on each individual piece in a shot but clean and readable as a whole, grounding but engaging, like it's a movie and runs on movie logic as well as game logic. Counter-Strike shares ancestry with the Half-Life series and so a Half-Life dedicated PVP Game rather than just a Deathmatch mode would probably look similar but with Half-Life's unique stylings, mainly in the clothing, weapons, and the unique apocalyptic urban environments you could fight in, or the sprawling rural areas as shown in Half-Life 2: Episode 2. Not to mention the creature designs. It would've been nice to visit the Half-Life universe again and have a Half-Life experience and a big part of that is the realistic and grimy but clean and readable cinematic Half-Life visual style.
I agree the half life aesthetic is washed out but looking like a neon puke bomb is not any better, those screenshots are NOT readable @@augustinehuizing6683
Mixing TF2 with any other competitive games is straight up illegal. TF2 isn't a competitive game in the SLIGHTEST. Its more of a game where you don't have to care about the objective and do what you want in any server, and that's valid. When TF2 tried being "competitive" it failed, why? because competitive mode is dead for years, heck probably when it was first a thing, it was destined to die.
At least TF2 has the excuse of being a 17 year old game. Valve's most recent title was CS2: a glorified source port of CSGO with barely any new content, and it's probably the most buggy unpolished mess right now, not to mention the game is barely a year old and already has a bot crisis, and Valve has done jack shit to fix it.
could you explain why cs2 is a buggy mess? been playing since beta and I personally believe that the game is actually very polished, I agree with you on the lack of content, not like they haven't already made the content, they just choose to drip feed the content such as maps, game modes etc. and as far as I'm aware with the bot situation, valve really is doing something, they banned roughly 300k bot accounts just last week, there are public stats you can look up.
@@consolegamer1122 There are a million tiny minutiae things that add up which would take forever too list here, but to summarize it: probably one of the biggest issues outside of cheaters/bots right now is just the general gunplay feeling off compared to CSGO, the main reason for this I suspect is the subtick system that Valve was hyping up to the launch of CS2. If you're a casual player this probably won't affect you much, but if your competitive then you understand that ticks are basically everything when it comes to the smoothness of gameplay. One of FaceIt's main selling points is that it hosts 128 tick servers which are double that of Valve's embarrassingly outdated 60 tick servers. Outside of that, I also find it particularly scummy especially of Valve when they forced CS:GO players to migrate over to CS2 rather than have a natural community segue. It comes off as insecure, like Valve no longer has the confidence they used to when it comes to making sequels to games. Imagine if Valve forced players from L4D1 to move to L4D2, but L4D2 has less content - and is full of new bugs and a substantial lack of polish.
@@spimpsmacker6422 the gunplay feels fine. Subtick at any tickrate (64 on Valve servers btw, you sped) is objectively more precise than traditional tick-based networking. They forced the upgrade to CS2 because of the skin economy and the competitive scene - Left 4 Dead is not a competitive shooter with a tournament scene and complex network of organisations and sponsors. You think like a child
@@acex222 Okay sorry I accidently got the number off by only four digits, I didn't mean to set off your sperg alarm. Secondly no, the subtick system is shit. I don't know what exactly it is within the code that causes it to fuck with the game, but most people will agree that it screws with the gunplay and hit registration too much. Forcing players to move to a new platform is something Valve has never done with a sequel, they didn't do it with 1.6 and CS:GO, they didn't do it with TFC and TF2, so why is this such an exception? 1.6 tournaments still went on years into CS:GO's early life and both games were completely fine in the end. Skins make even less sense when they're literally just game textures with an arbitrary price value, even if Valve had to update both games simultaneously to keep the economy in balance, I don't think it will kill them to keep up with the task of adding a few pngs to the game.
@@spimpsmacker6422 64 ticks is something anyone who's qualified to have any opinion on tickrate should know - it's a sign you're thick as a brick outhouse. "most people will agree" isn't meaningful, because it goes in the fact of hard facts - it makes hits and misses more precise. Subtick is an improvement over 64 ticks because categorically cannot miss a shot that was going to hit due to tickrate. "Adding a few PNGs" child with no concept of work detected, opinion dismissed
Instead of spending $300 on a TF2 tradeup to give me a 20% chance of getting a cool item (and an 80% chance of a garbage Christmas hat worth 30 cents), I put that money toward a PS3 and a ton of games at the last second, which so far have brought me more joy than TF2 has in the past 18 months. I will not support or buy Valve anything, and I encourage others to follow suit. They're completely out of touch just like their peers
I would sooner become an Overwatch fan than I would touch Deadlock. They have the resources and ability to make literally anything they want without worrying about sunk cost; Valve, as the owner of Steam, literally never has to worry about money. Instead of diverting even a fraction of that money into servicing and keeping their games playable, they channel it into the most bland looking trend following slop. Not only that, but as a hero shooter, the genre is INSPIRED BY TF2 AS A WHOLE! How in the hell can they let the original fester and rot as they pump out the next project that we all know they’re just going to neglect anyway? Valve as a game maker is creatively and even morally bankrupt. They have absolutely no integrity whatsoever anymore. Sure, the “HL3 confirmed!!!” meme was funny for a few years, but it was truly foreshadowing in the most harrowing way. They proved back then that they can say they’re doing something and then not do it, go radio silent, and people will forget. They’ve spent their years distancing themselves from being the funny relatable company that releases amazing games with the best communities. They don’t even have to speak to us anymore. They don’t care, they’ll keep getting money anyway. Valve is the worst, I’m truly disgusted with their behavior. I’ve played TF2 for 10 years now, I love it to death and I can’t even bring myself to get on uncletopia anymore. This whole thing is a nightmare. #FixTF2 (Edit: typo)
gabe is a mascot, not really manages steam anymore, think of him as the company face, when you think of gabe you immediately think of steam, although he doesnt manage there, he do owns it
honestly so far deadlock looks like valve's attempt on trying to look "trendy", like they saw fortnite and valorant and stuff and were like "oh that's what teenagers nowaday want" and just kinda went for that style, but that's just not how it works…:( it's like coming back from school as a kid to your dad overusing slang words when talking to you :D by trying to be something that you aren't you'll just look silly if not stupid… you just have to be what you are Valve, you just have to do what YOU want to do, I know that Valve "wants to keep being a small indie company so they don't hire a lot", well small indie companies also do what THEY want, and not something that is trendy…
Chasing trends is what killed halo. Halo was king once, truly an innovator. Every halo game brought something new and original to the gaming space. Halo 1 showed the world that “no, shooters on console can work”and is the sole reason Xbox has not been buried, halo 2 showed the world that online multiplayer can be a real thing on console, halo 3 showed how you have a progression system in a multiplayer shooter, and innovated with game mechanics such as forge and theater. and then 343 killed it trying to copy cod. Valve innovated by completely changing the trajectory of single player shooters with half life. They pretty much created the tacital shooter with counter strike. They innovated the class based shooter YEARS before it was popular with team fortress. The source engine was a monumental feat back in 2004 and the games they built on it have aged incredibly. Left 4 dead and portal were genius and original in their own right, but we just never see this innovation anymore from vavle. tried copying hearthstone and that kicked their shit in with artifact. They tried to make a hasty uninspired sequel in the vein of overwatch 2 with cs2 and got their shit kicked in. Now they’re trying to make a generic game that’s going to play and look like overwatch valorant and league of legends and they will get their shit kicked in. There are still glimmers of hope, like source 2 seeming to be a pretty darn solid engine with great potential, and half life Alyx was a huge innovation for vr shooters, but valve seems to sink closer and closer to what halo, and by extension Bungie has become.
@@elfascisto6549 half life, portal, l4d, tf, but mainly half life since it has a famous cliffhanger thats like 15 years old now or something with no resolution.
Most people would be fine with adding in something like EAC or BattlEye to temporarily curb the cheater and bot issues in CS2/TF2 while they develop their own anticheat, but Valve doesn't seem care about temporary solutions and assumes we're fine with waiting tens of years for improvements. They have basically endless money, couldn't they just license an anticheat? Or buy an anticheat company? But the worst part about modern Valve is that their ignorance is not even limited to their games. Lots of their other products have become worse. Such as: - Steam Families Beta is needlessly restrictive (same country requirement, 1 year cooldown between user changes) - Steam Marketplace servers being basically unusable (buff the servers or ban the bots, maybe even both?) - Spam problems in every Steam Forum, Profile comment and in popular game's patch notes - Steam is filled with generic copy-paste NSFW games (again, another spam issue) - Steam's server browser is full of spam servers (just deny all entries that have invalid playercounts/banned words/links) - CS2 overall review score includes reviews from CS:GO, artificially inflating the overall review score of CS2 - CS2 does not have trust factor although CS:GO did (although it was pretty useless) - CS2 does not have clantags (the UI was literally copy and pasted from CS:GO, meaning they spent dev time to remove clan tags) - Underspecced Helsinki servers causing packet loss and teleportation in-game - Despite CS2 being touted as an upgrade, it removed most of the content present in CS:GO, but at least we get a graphical upgrade and skins look fancier! - If you don't have raytracing compatible hardware, you cannot compile CS2 maps (which is only a CS2 limitation, HLA and Dota2 worked fine on CPU) Then some technical nitpicks: - SteamVR is still unstable and buggy - Steam WebUI consumes an ungodly amount of system resources and is terribly buggy and crashy compared to the old "ugly" interface - Steam WebUI overlay causes FPS drops whenever a notification pops up - Steam in 2024 is STILL a 32-bit application - SteamOS3 modified source code is still not available (which is required by various licenses)
@@Rosentti indeed, and they've also only worsened the ui but i really don't care for some reason also you can't put spoilers over images... it just doesn't work, the image doesn't show up
It feels like this leak really couldn't have come at a worse time. All this renewed interest in revitalizing TF2 and word spreading about just how bad of a state that game is in, coinciding with the revelation that Valve is wasting their time on... This...
And on top of all of that, a time when 99% of these online games coming out are dying in their first month (Worms Rumble, Nick All Star Brawl, Headbangers Rhythm Royale, etc). So many of the companies making these games would do ANYTHING for the loyal fanbase TF2 and CS had, but they just remain ignored.
7:01 Even though its not announced, the core gameplay seems like AIDS. Its like as a little kid in art class when you try to mix a bunch of colors together to make a rainbow color or smth and end up getting a muddy brown or gray. Also valve saw people wanted games... So instead of looking at all of the games that are still loved and played years after their release, they looked at the companies that were doing good 5 years ago but are now drowning because they made terrible design choices that were not sustainable and went "damn... Looks like we gotta get on their level!" Im genuinley convinced that valve got all of the good people still left at the company and have them locked in a closet somewhere being forced to work on bug patches for half life 1 and 2 for bugs that require you to go through a 15 step program on a PC using a cursed totem of the sun god as its CPU to actually do.
- The game will be 120gb because Valve still uses ancient DirectX textures with rudimentary compression - The same hacks available for CS2 will work right away on Deadlock due to the same engine - They're going to introduce loot crates with EPIC RARE skins after most interested people have bought the game and run out their refund window. Then once an economy develops, botters looking to make a quick buck will flood the game. - Once paid skins hit, all cosmetic mods by fans will stop working - Community servers will either be buried or not available at all - Steam controller won't be supported On the bright side, TF2 will definitely get an update once Deadlock launches... To add exclusive hats and weapons for those who preordered it.
Scepticism is the healthy choice at this point. Not despair or "nihilism" but just general caution with things based on recent trends. If it ends up being good then you are pleasently surprised. If not then its smug satisfaction.
