What if the Soviet Union Never Fell? | Alternate History 

Absolutely crazy to think about that one Russian, born in the year between 1900-1910 was born under the Russian empire, tsar nicholas, then go through ww1 and then the Russian revolution, then under Stalin during ww2, then living peacefully in the USSR 45 years during the cold war. Then experiencing the Soviet collapse, and finally dying after 1999 under the Russian federation under President Putin...

"They are our brothers, these freedom fighters". That aged well.

I highly kinda doubt the USSR would stay authoritarian since gorvachev's goal has always been democracy and transparency in my opinion and most likely the USSR would rebrand itself into the soviet federation or something But this video is still a very good interpretation of what would happen

I would like to see what the miliary technology would be like actually as a lot of programs got canceled or scaled back due to the USSR collapsing in both the east and the west and it would be interesting to see how tech develops with a peer level conflict in mind for 3 decades instead of the war on terror and a third world war perhaps breaking out in February of 2022.

Yugoslavia might have actually survived because they were reliant upon both the Soviet Union and United States for economic aid. This isn’t gospel, just something to consider.

the thing is: the PRC had to build up all their production capacity from nothing, meanwhile a Perestroika-only opened USSR would be at the technological level to start being the factory of the world. yes, the USSR's industry was extremely advanced in some areas (Buran > Shuttle), but it was also quite behind Western industry standards in other (see autos). esides that, we have the fact that standards of living were lower in the USSR, & so were wages in 1991. with all that put together, we have a highly educated poor population in a highly technological country, which would be able to put out in 1991 the same level of products that China could in the 2ks+ for a fraction of the wages and better quality, all that right by the side of a major market. my guess is that a Perestroika-only open USSR would have pushed the PRCs boom further down the line.

I think it would have made more sense if the USSR gave democratisation an other go (as was attempted in 1936-1937 with a new constitution that allowed for non communist to run as candidates in elections etc), abandon market reforms and instead keep the planned economy but instead of basing it on output, do it properly by using computer systems to track demand. Thus making the economy much more effective and more appreciated by the people since it would be a demand based, non profit economy. That could kick of an era of liberty, democracy and economic satisfaction for the people in the USSR. Which in turn would have kept pressure on the western businesses not to let income and wealth inequality grow like it has done in the US, UK etc since the 70s untill this very day. For the average citizen in most countries of the world this could have meant a better position than compared to today's reality?

I think you are wrong with the Yugoslavian wars still happening. Many people claim ethnic tensions as the major reason for the war but in reality the ethnic tensions began just after the Yugoslavian economy hit recession in 1980s. A still economical strong USSR would prevent the recession from becoming an economic disaster like it happen during the 90s where Hyperinflantion happened. And if the Yugoslav wars still happened, I am not sure if an united Bosnian Federation could exist in this timeline duo the Serbs being more supported by the East while at the same time the Bosnian govnerment by the West

amazing visuals, amazing in depth hypotheticals, very well done. I'd say this video beats all others relating to this topic.

This was super interesting. It would have been great to have seen some rough economic and demographic estimates extrapolated from 80s trajectories or based on Eastern European GDPs

Another very interesting scenario. Thanks again, Neatling!

You are missing one big point. Without collapse of USSR, there would not be a free for all theft of Soviet property and resources as what has happened in the 90's USA would be in much bigger debt spiral without a way to write off it's currency debt. The economic boom of the 90's would probably not have happened. NAFTA and globalization would not have happened as fast as it have. There is a very real possibility of USSR and China working out their differences of the 70's

Ronald Reagan:"they owe our help" Few decades later: *the state of Afghanistan*

I think in this alternate timeline China would team up with USSR (like with Russia in our timeline) because of many reasons: 1. Economic ties, both would have market socialism economies 2. USA would be militarily active in Turkiye, directly threatening USSR, forcing it to seek new allies 3. USA would support Taiwan against China (like in our timeline) 4. USA would start focusing on China more than USSR/Russia because China would be surpassing USA in economy and technology (like in our timeline) 5. It was Gorbachev who fixed relations with China, which is reason why Russia and China are allies in our timeline 6. USSR and China both would be seen as a threat by the west, forcing them to work together 7. America would have its bases in Far East, Middle east, Turkey, Europe, Taiwan, effectively encircleing both USSR and China 8. Iran and Pakistan would allign themselves with USA as they would see USSR, China and communism as a threat to their culture and islam 9. Liberal-democratic India would have closer relations with communist USSR (and not with China because of their border dispute) than also liberal-democratic USA and the west because of 1971. but, still would remain non-alligned (like in our timeline) Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that in this timeline North Korea, as Soviet sattellite would likely follow steps of USSR like other Soviet-alligned states so it would be able to secularize, modernize and compete with South Korea

Me on every single video: When's the new alternate history coming? Neatling: What if the USSR never fell? Me (Bulgarian): Oh HELL no

From listening to my family talk about life under the Soviets, they didn't care about politics and thus were wholly detached from the divisive debates tearing our society apart today. The simply pretended to work, actually working like 3 days per month, would go on mandatory 2-week holidays twice per year to holiday resorts and spas, and pretty much drink and party all day every day, since if there wasn't anyone's birthday to celebrate, you would celebrate their friends birthday (in their name, obviously they weren't there in person) or their friend's friend's friends, and so on. They basically made up holidays to drink and party every day. After work, they'd go feast at each other's homes. I wonder if the internet and computerization would have been the same as it is in China, creating a vast internal market, but generally mimicking western tech companies, or if it would have been like North Korea, where only select families would have the ability to use the internet under strict supervision. At the very least, I know that millions wouldn't have killed themselves, and that USSR would have been a much more equal country. It's similar to when I ask my Chinese friends, and they say that they don't need freedom of speech or opinion, basically just don't talk about politics, and then you can do whatever you want. At least in USSR, everyone had free access to schooling of all levels and good healthcare. Free theater spectacles, artistic shows, etc. But my parents did say that the TV programs sucked, it was pretty much soviet propaganda or war films with intermittent showings of the communist party meetings. Boring shit. But hey, at least it was a simple life that everyone enjoyed. People in my home country often reminisce about the good old soviet days, I'm sort of the weird link between the ultra-radical left youth of today and the old conservative soviet boomers, so it's interesting to view such scenarios to contemplate what could have been.

Correction, the soviet union allocated 1.5-2% of its MILITARY BUDGET towards the maintenance of its troops and equipment in Afghanistan. It didnt just randomly take it from its overall budget. There are CIA documents such as “The economic cost of the Soviet Unions invasion of Afghanistan” , which further proves this

Amazing video!I started my channel thanks to your videos and hopefully I can do a good job as well talking about economics.Thank you for inspiring me and keep up the good work.

So happy he made this, i always wondered abt it.

There is a Russian serial on what if the Soviet union never collapsed. It has time travel and surreal plot points but it's amazing

Interesting video and view for an alternative history to our own. But how would the world like if the Sino-Soviet split never happened.

One of the reasons rarely mentioned for the Soviet collapse is the immense amount of resources Russia had to funnel to the Soviet republics, and to the Warsaw Pact countries. In Russia a lot of people assumed that by selling these goods instead of giving them up like they were Russia would be a lot richer. At that theory looked to be correct till about 2014 when the whole Ukraine thing happened, and triggered an immense amount of paranoia from the Russian population that forced a huge post Cold War realignment with the West.

Nice bit of alt history analysis there. More please!

Excellent video :))

First things first, the Chinese economic reforms began practically when Deng made land reforms stepping back from the collectivization, Moscow saw it as way to drastic, their reforms were set to do the same as the Chinese did, but without the land reform, that's why they failed, Gorbachev himself said that, instead of openness and economic growth they got ultranationalism and recession, which was the opposite from what happened in China, or perhaps Vietnam, which also did similar reforms, people in the west tend to assume that it was the special economic zones, but they came latter in China, and the reason was the land reform, it was a way to prevent speculation, since if you privatize the land, is obvious that real state enterprises would be like vultures all over it, so they made the SEZ to control it. That said, this could even work in the USSR? Theoretically, yes, and funny enough, the USSR had what China lacks and vice-versa, which was the heavy industry, theoretically a company could build facilities to extract materials, build tools, stuff like that in the USSR, which would use their highly skilled work force, to transform in China and sell all over the world, the problem is that the desindustrialization all over the world would be twice as hard, Japan and Germany would be hit hard, the US recession in the beginning of the 2000 would be way worst and soon enough the crime rates and domestic terrorism would be on the rise, so the war on terror would still be happening, in a very different way, but it will, the arms race would probably stall, the microprocessors and telecom races would become the new thing, the cold war would be over by this point since everything is capitalist now, so it will change everything to stay the same.

oh also cheers, it's almost been 2 years since i started supporting you! Edit: It's been 2 years :3

Do part 4 for what if eastern Rome didn’t fall. Ideas for what would they have done during the world wars

Is official…Neatling is back

4:48 ah yes, hindsight, truly a spectacle to stun and amaze.

If the Soviet Union never collapsed, everything woulda have been better, because the Cold War is what made both sides prosper and it made astonishing advances in technology and research, plus the Military would constantly be advancing and we wouldn't have to worry about 9/11 or any middle eastern wars. It would also be the way we all get space colonization, seeing how the space race would eventually evolve into the colonization of planets, they would have fast Space ships, pretty much the beginning of Star Trek-type tech. Of course, after a while of that, the 2 sides would start to stop feuding and begin to work together, since they both have colonies on the same planets, after many joint endeavors, the 2 would eventually merge or create a United Space program and it will be the beginning of Earth Unity. At that time, both sides would be doing very well economically and Militarily as well as tech-wise too, so the de-escalation of the Cold War would happen and both sides would try to work together, ushering in a new era of Peace and prosperity. Until China starts doing their own colonization of planets and creates a 3rd party, then the peace would slowly die, due to people on the West side being outraged and angry that the government's decision to work with the " enemy" and many riots and revolts would happen in the West as well as fear of China and Soviet Union joining forces once again and going against the West, which would probably cause civil wars in western countries and the installation of Anti-East governments who would try to get the Ring leader, America on board, but America being the leading country of the West to want to join forces with the Soviets, would lead the nations in favor of it causing a rift between Anti-East and Pro-East governments which would probably cause wars and a new Faction to rise up in the West, Neo Fascism. The NeoFascists would most likely focus more on Earth politics than space, so they would cease all space developments and efforts, knowing that they could just steal or copy the Western Alliance and Soviet tech and use it for space. The rising tensions with NeoFascist Coalition and Western Alliance and the Chinese hegemony, it would start the 3rd World War or a smaller regional war for dominance, but since the Soviets and Western Alliance are at peace and working together, they both have become the only superpowers in the world, with China rising to be 3rd and the NeoFascist Coalition trying to reach the status in 4th place. This would affect both the West and the Soviets, which would cause them to get involved in the wars and shift focus on Earth, this would reintroduce the Cold War mindset back into the Soviets and West which would affect the relationship, and eventually cause it to break due to the re-escalation of the now old Cold War that's been going on for almost 200 years. Then, after so many wars and years of it, I imagine there will be a rise of pacifist movements in all factions to try to end the wars and go back to space, it would be another 50 years until that idea would catch on seeing how governments don't really care for end of wars to happen, once they do, the call for Earth Unification would begin and eventually there would be a Loose Union of countries then after a while of that, a fully united Earth Government would be established and the 4 factions would exist as States in this Earth Government and this new Global Government would definitely focus on Space and i believe the start of Star Trek type federation would be in the works of forming with United Earth being the founding Member.

That's a great idea and video

Guess there's no way to know how this would turn out thanks to the beliefs and convictions of a few people. Rest in Peace Mikhail Gorbachev.

Truly an underrated channel

that's nutty to think that if the USSR's Afghanistan didnt go so horribly, it would indirectly cause 9/11 and the whole war on terror to never happen

Woah, this is very underrated.

Really happy I found this channel

Ussr had 5 million active army and 30 million reseeve+ 60000 tanks and 100000 trucks + 10000 aircraft and second biggest economy 3rd largest population and world largest land area and superior technology and industry and imagine if its exist after 30 years

This is basically for all mankind season four and five predictions

nice touch to the "what if" youtube history videos with that intro

That was really interesting. However, I am sure you realize that a lot of unexpected things would have happened in this alternate reality.

This World is much better than our World TBH. Especially with the Space Race Continuing

hay Neatling what do you think about the tv show for all mankind and it's world (which is also one when the Soviet Union Never Fell) ?

Gonna steal this scenario for my own alternative timeline but I'm keeping Yugoslavia alive as well as having Finland, Poland and Romania as non-aligned nations.

if Gorbachev's reforms were successful, the world would be a better placeif Gorbachev's reforms were successful, the world would be a better place

Birth Rates of a reformed USSR: Soviet Union: 2.5, Poland: 3.1, East Germany: 2.2, Czechoslovakia: 2.3, Hungary: 2.3, Romania: 2.7, Serbia Montenegro: 3.2, North Macedonia: 3.2, Bulgaria: 2.4.

if the Soviet Union made it, it would be more like the Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics, Gorbachev's idea giving more autonomy to the states but keeping them within the union is the way to go

Can you do a follow up video with the population and GDP of the Soviet Union and their sphere of influence.

I honestly think that to survive, the Soviets wouldve had to have retracted their reach somewhat to re-establish their power at home. At the very least, I do think this would’ve still meant German reunification if not the collapse or at least withdrawal of some other members of the Warsaw pact. I could easily still see Czechoslovakia splitting and both becoming neutral states as well. Possibly Bulgaria or Hungary too? My other critique is regarding an amelioration of ties between China and the Soviets, the two countries who almost nukes each other and came closer to war towards the end than America and either of them. If anything, I think Chinese ties with America would grow stronger in this scenario due to the perceived threat of the Soviets. North Korea preferred the Soviets over the Chinese up until their collapse so they’d likely be a battleground for influence between the two, making the Korean Peninsula less of a competition between China and NK vs America and SK like today. There’s likely still be a lot of tensions, particularly around Taiwan but China would likely feel cornered by both. The difference is while America is sticking to islands outside of South Korea who is basically an island anyways, the Soviets are directly competing with China for influence in countries that China sees as its sphere but all preferred the Soviets. It’s not only North Korea but Vietnam and Mongolia as well. China would also face a lot of competition from in the Middle East from the Soviets, particularly in Iran but widely in general. The Soviets shared borders with much of the Middle East in Central Asia and the Caucasus while also being close with India who we would likely see closer and ties with than in our timeline due to a stronger potential on the Russian end. I would also argue that American willingness to offshore production to China would be greatly reduced without the collapse of the Soviet Union. The electronics factory of the world would likely find its home elsewhere, probably around Mexico, Colombia, the Philippines, or Malaysia. That’s a lot harder to predict though because it wasn’t only America offshoring to China but Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan as well. Supply chains would be super interesting to see in this kind of world.

In other words for everyone outside of the US and Eastern Europe the world is 100 times better and for Eastern Europe and the US its 50/50 wether things would be slightly better or slightly worse? Fuck sake Gorbachev all you had to do was not rush your reforms and the world on the whole would be a much better place.

Thank you for your non biased, informative video!

Good stuff

Excellent video. You have a nice voice for an American.

I'm also thinking that there'd still be that chance that Romania would remain rather independent within the Eastern Bloc in such alternate timeline. Just to be clear, that's precisely the path Romania took in the aftermath of the rest of the Warsaw Pact destroying the Prague Spring. who knows whether Romania would be more nationalistic in that alternate timeline.

Can you do an alternate history of the Greco-Roman empire, it is a compromise between the Greek and Latin speaking cultures co-exist together like the Austria Hungary compromise in 1867, pls make it happened, pls

12:40 as a Pole it's sad that you didn't mention other costs.And it's stupid to speak that we would get assimilated to russian culture. We were independent. Now we are more assimilating to the American culture than then to the Russian one

I love this guy's analysis it was very fair. 🙂👍👍👍.

While the USSR surviving wouldn't have been good, I have always noticed that it seems like America started to lose its edge and allow things to fall apart after the USSR fell. Like, very soon after that we stopped winning things like Field's medals in Mathematics, the space program was put on the back burner, industry started being outsourced more, and in general without the fear of the USSR to pressure our leaders into doing a good job and showing how we were superior, it's like our leaders just... gave up and let us fall behind China which they didn't see as a threat. I think the USSR completely collapsing in the 1980s made everyone overconfident in the idea of world peace. Maybe it would have been better if the collapse had been more gradual, with the Warsaw Pact countries breaking away first, but the USSR itself holding on longer and continuing to be a threat. Enough that the Iron Curtain starts to come down and Eastern Europe is more free, but not enough that our leaders start thinking we're in an era of peace and prosperity and stop worrying about national security.

I haven’t finished the video yet, but I just want to point out something you kept mentioning. How “there would be a return to “an increase of Cold War tensions” as if after the collapse there was less of a divide between East and West. We know for a fact, especially right now, that just isn’t true. Gorbachev working towards better relations with the West was not a policy that was exclusive to Glasnost. He would have continued pushing for peace and prosperity with the West. So I think this whole thing about “increases Cold War tensions” is quite frankly based on nothing

@NEATLING please do a video on what if the artic America purchases were successful.

Had Gorbachev succeeded we could see OGAS being implemented making the mix of planned economy and matket econmy more efficient

Fun fact the Chinese also backed the rebel groups in Afghanistan to help hurt the USSR. Since the Sino-soviet split back in the 60s they became more rivals powers towards rather than allies considering the USSR implementing deStalinization which china kinda disagreed with and also being seen a by the soviets as junior partner to them kinda rubbed them the wrong way. One example of them having competing spheres of influence is how N. Korea had closer relations with the USSR and how Albania was aligned with PRC rather than the USSR. The geopolitical relations between the PRC and USSR in that time line would be similar to now where china and the USSR still being allies of convenience though the USSR being not nearly as much of a junior partner (maybe more equal if their economy managed to grow as was predicted back in the 80s if the reforms were successful) to china as in this timeline.

A tripolar system is the least stable. Two parties always team up against the other. I suspect we would have had a major war between the great powers directly if the Soviet Union survived past 2000.

In the early year, preferably after stallin, Soviet union need someone like deng ziaoping who can build a grand masterplan to stimulate soviet economy, and to enter the world market like china today. Sadly Soviet higher up doesnt have such people. If only trotsky take over the succesion instead of stallin, i wonder what would happen to our world now

China’s rise would be impacted. In our current timeline,China was able to create its Belt and Road initiative across the Eurasian continent because the Central Asian states were free from Moscows control and could now independently sign infrastructure deals with Beijing. They also provide resources to China to fuel its rise to superpower status. And act as buffer states between Russia and China. If the Soviet Union was still around, they would do anything to prevent a superpower growing across their Southern border. They might block trade deals, infrastructure projects etc through their Central Asian republics. I would also expect the West to continue to be friendly with China in order to oppose the Soviets. So I’d expect no mentions of Taiwan or Hong Kong in western media.

5:13 problem is whether or not the USSR can get the eastern bloc to copy their economc reforms in this timeline. ceaucescu was very stubborn and romania had bad relations with the USSR. this would probably be fixed after ceaucescus death though.

The USSR be 100 years old in 2022

I'd say the soviet collapse could be akin to a tight grasp of many ropes holding the state together, because if the one at the top lets go, there's no guarantee that the whole system will stand on it's own. Which is why that's exactly what happened to Gorbachev, he let go of the ropes to fast. Causing the whole rotten structure to collapse, if the soviet union could've established a stable foundation before loosening it's grip, there's a chance the union could've survived

Well the problem with ussr is mainly on the topic of "decentralization". An organization (like a country) to work it needs it's management to be devided.

Can you please reupload your video about what if the Russian revolution never happened?

I'm curious as to why you neglected mentioning the fate of North Macedonia. Seeing as you have it painted red, you assume it would remain in the Serbian sphere of influence, which makes more sense. It would affect the political situation in Greece, as well. Seeing as the right-wing populist party that's currently in power, the one that is partly responsible for the country's fiscal crisis, won the last elections based on its opposition to the Prespes Agreement, which settled the naming dispute. So a non-independent North Macedonia would change Greece's course, too.

Anything that led to the USSR collapsing, look familiar? It sure does, too me. But I don't believe a full collapse will occur. But there'll definitely be a lot of changes on all levels. Just my shared opinion.

You should do what if the Vikings stayed in Vinland?

This sounds similar to the universe in For All Mankind

"It was real. And it was glorious"

Also, would the Gulf War even still happen in this timeline? It's much more likely that the USSR would rekindle its relationship with Iraq, veto the resolution, and prevent it entirely. Or, if the US persisted in invading Iraq, arming Iraq to the teeth, making victory uncertain...and it'd be a pyrrhic one if it happened.

theyd also need to crush the solidarity movement to prevent poland from declaring martial law.

Poderia fazer o vídeo sobre a Cornélia do norte?

Good video. I think, though, for the premise to be plausible, Soviet economic reforms have to start earlier, during Brezhnev's reign. The period between The Eyebrow's health decline and Gorbachev's ascension was really the nail in the USSR's coffin - a whole decade of inaction and stagnation. Remember during this period there were huge propaganda own-goals from the West in Vietnam, the Iranian revolution/hostage crisis, inflation and the oil crisis, and so on. The Soviets, being an authoritarian one-party state led at the time by a gormless invalid, were unable to take advantage of any of those crises. And then you had Afghanistan, Soviet leaders who dropped dead within months... Gorbachev comes way too late... and then Chernobyl happens which really sealed the public distrust and dissatisfaction with Soviet governance. Essentially, nothing useful was done 1975-1985. For this scenario to be most plausible, Brezhnev dies from heart attack or stroke in 1975, to be succeeded by (probably) Gromyko or Kulakov (NOT Andropov), allowing reform to commence in the late 70s.

Just one correction on our map. Yugoslavia was never a part of the USSR, in fact it was one of the signing members of the post WW II Battle act, the precursor to what would become NATO. As the informbiro scandal developed, and Tito alienated from the communist party ideologically, Yugoslavia was considered one of the key factors in deterring any potential soviet invasions. They almost came to blows a few times, and the YPA, one of the largest militaries in Europe at the time enjoyed a lot of funding and help from western allies.

This would end up being a BETTER world if the USSR ends up still making democratic glasnost style reforms eventually. But probably in late 90s and 2000s. Likely doing it slower. And still letting the Warsaw pact countries do their own thing in the 2000s as well, eventually ending the Cold War sometime around then

The only reason I want this scenario to exist is simply for the fact that the space race would be reignited. GOD I wanna see competition in space

It would be a better world.

As a Serb I quite prefer this timeline, as my homeland isn't ruined via intervention. Not only that but the space race continuing is great due to the amount of resources we would get from the asteroids and such. This however all coming at a cost of autoretarian governments but personally I think its a fair trade

love it very nice

Without the Fall of the USSR, China never becomes the country it is today. The 90s is when China truly took a step to become what it is today and that's because the fear of communism had fallen by a lot the moment USSR disappeared. With USSR no way US integrates their economy so much with them. More likely we see what we were seeing already by companies at the time and its India that gets a lot more companies over there.

It would've been better for the sake of balance now the U.S. is dominating and aggressively expanding thier zone of influence

I think the alternate scenario would've been much better.

Perfect

W timeline, and a refreshing lack of "USSR bad and evil, it will kill us all" that im used to with these types of alt history

Queen is no more

Amazing job

Did you not steal that intro reel from alt hist hub?

*The timeline where the Middle East has true peace.*

The war in Afghanistan is the most over hyped and overrated war in history, it was almost as irrelevant as US own war in Afghanistan.

Honestly,whilst more difficult to imagine, had Brezhnev failed in 1964 and Kruschev stayed in power until his death, the USSR would have been much better of since Brezhnev nearly doomed it by his insistent hate of reforms of any kind,had this happened and with the hardliners staying out of power, the USSR could have, through gradual reforms,not like Gorbachev's insanity ones, easily reformed into a China like state at worst or a Eastern democracy at best.

I wonder: 1. In this universe, does the Soviet Union allowed their citizen to travel abroad ? 2. In Romania, how long Nicolae Ceaușescu was in the power and does he reform his country ?

I'm from Russia, I didn't realise the Soviet Union fell, no change here

The ISS is not the freedom space station. The USSR was building the MIR 2, with the end of the cold war, the US offered funds and join programs. The ISS is basically the MIR 2 with US segments. The core of the ISS is the Soviet MIR 2 segments hosting the most important systems of the station, navigation, attitude control, water recycling and has its own electrical and air control systems. The US just added science segments and the big solar panels structure.

Hope we get a part 2

I watched this channel bald and bankrupt where the guy actually goes and hunts down the rusted remains of the Bouran soviet space shuttle locked up in the middle of the Kazakh steppes. It was worth checking out if your into this kind of USSR stuff