Why Almost Everyone HATES Live Service Games? 

NBA 2k. Every year you grind for VC or just straight up buy it to effectively rent your Myplayer and their gear for a year or two. I hate that

@@jordanbomb32 Yeah it would be better if VC transferred between all NBA 2K games

It is also for this reason I hate single player games that force online connectivity. Servers can shut down and then I'd lose access to what I paid for. Pretty scummy if you ask me.

Live service games are the socialism of entertainment - they keep going until they run out of other peoples money.

@@jordanbomb32 I just found this out the other day. I redownloaded 2k20 my guy was maxed out and I payed for VC(only one I’ve ever paid into) and I couldn’t even play my single player. I knew the street was gone but I didn’t know you lost your character. It really makes it to I’m never buying 2k again.

Hear hear. The ideal concept of a "Live Service Game" or "Games as a Service" is that the game you ship with is already complete, and then you support it with additional content to keep players going. Such a game will also typically be a multiplayer game, with either coop or PvP elements, in order to create a social bond that keeps players in the game. The problem is that monetization has become the core objective of Live Services instead of fun gameplay, where "player engagement" statistics are considered vital in order to entrap players through the grind. Instead of a game where you spend time in it because it's fun, you're forced to spend time in it just to get to the fun part.

exactly, I love the idea of live service, but it's so often just sell you stuff while they try to maybe add stuff before people quit.

The problem is they fell in love with the idea of an infinite money machine. Instead of starting with a good game and using the live service to add new things to it, they start with monetization strategies and then build a minimum viable product around those strategies, hoping it'll be enough to hold player's attention while they implement their "road map" of expansions/improvements over time.

@@randomstuff-qu7sh exactly but even for the whales have money, if there is two games that i could spend 500$'s in, as I'm already putting 500$'s in one, I'm eitehr only playing one, or I'm putting 250-350 in each, they don't magicly make a ton of money from me. PLUS if all you have to offer me is spending money but little else I'm not doing even that. I put a lot of money into marvel heroes because it was A) fun and B had alot of stuff and ways to get things for free, that made spending money every so often worth it. It got bad near the end, but for the longest time it was a great example of how to do a live service.

Nah, that was just the lie they used to tell to sell them. It was never true.

I feel similar as a gamer in a rural area with awful internet. I'm glad someone at least acknowledges our situation.

yesss im not alone in this regard! on the other hand, i was blessed with good internet from time, but i refuse to partake in anything online based! couch co-op or single player only! ok ok i admit its pretty much single player life mostly for me but i like it that way! also something about the lack of friends or humans in general to socialize with.... my generalized Millennial problems......

This is one of the points i was making about the Xbox One in general. If you don’t have internet the machine will not do anything. People’s response, just take it to a library or a friend’s house and download the update there. Forget to download the blu-ray player app? Too bad. Nowadays, i think about COD Warzone and people who have download caps. There are places where you can be limited to a few hundred GB of data that come through. Warzone had 40GB daily downloads for a while. Screw those people am i right?

Destiny vet here I finally let go of it because I felt like of what I paid for was not content that they was putting out overall it was time for me to play other games and catch-up on my everlasting games I put on my backlog because I devoted so much time to destiny 1 and 2 although I don’t play it anymore I still check out RU-vidr who still play it from time to time

These days soo many people are completely reliant on the internet. There are a lot of good games I've missed out on due to lack of usable internet. And there's streaming, etc. Some people just don't get it. Why do I have CD's? A collection of movies? Why do you need that much storage on your phone/device? Why have you not seen your old friends in years? I can't even find the words right now. Without the internet there's a lot of people who be lost and miserable and they would have to rebuild themselves in order to even function. The internet is great. But it can also turn into a drug that twists people and causes pain.

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HELLO 👋 I JUST FARTED 🤣🤣🤣

​@@mickiethompson4285 me too, man. I was proud of this one.

*cough. Fallout 76. The map is just beautiful and fun to explore but little to no story.

RIP Anthem.

hitman

was destiny always live service? back in 2014 you had to buy the game(I still have that physical copy. it wasn't until shadowkeep where it went free and went live service right? I stopped after beyond light simply because I couldn't keep up with it any.ore

I still play D2 and I'm still having fun with it. The gameplay is satisfying, the buildcrafting is fun and grinding for new and better gear is addictive. I still think they handle the live-service aspect better than most. That said, Lightfall's campaign was extremely mid and I can't really recommend it. I just think D2 is not a good example. A better example of pisspoor live-service is Halo Infinite

@@aceknight6622 Destiny has always been a live service game with constant updates, quality of life changes, guaranteed expansion content every year or so, ever since 2014. That fits the criteria for a Live Service model

@@Pwedict that's what a live service game is? I always thought live service games were like final fantasy 14 where you pay monthly or yearly to play the game. I feel like an idiot

@@aceknight6622 Nah, you’re not an idiot. Think of Destiny / Destiny 2. They’re constantly updated, but they have this “expansion” every year, which is effectively a subscription if you want to be caught up on all the new stuff. So live service models differ, but what they have in common is that there’s usually a paywall to new stuff with all those types of games

You can explain this to them all day, every day, but until the majority stops investing in those games, they will not, and cannot change! Their executives will not let them deviate until the money is not there.

Go look at the top like 20 games in terms of revenue. They are pretty much all live service games. Hate to break it to you but you are the minority. People play the shit out of live service games and they aren't going to stop because you don't like them.

drilled what? more money for no work? sounds great to me

Obviously there are gamers who don't get it. If nobody was playing these games, they wouldn't be making them. Stupid people enable publishers to make this crap. How can you blame the publishers for doing their job and finding ways to make the most money for the least amount of work? They'd be negligent if they weren't taking advantage of the fools that spend money on this garbage.

The power is in our hands actually. They continue cuz we give em money if the majority just said " no we aren't going to pay for this trash until you actually deliver " that'll change their behavior real quick if everyone just banded together to fight this we could have left live service in the gutter years ago.

HI 👋 I JUST FARTED 😂😂😂

@@mickiethompson4285 same

What is a live service game?

all I know is multiplayer or single player

@@endnotessherman3153 Watch the video

Similar to drug dealing. Gaming addiction is real. WAKE UP

They are simply Cyber Jobs. The reason why they aren't fun, is becouse they won't reach what Games are for actually: "Relax, Sit down, chill"

To be fair though, they're mostly competitive games. I come from a fighting game background, and in those games, the satisfaction comes from getting better beating your (human) opponent. Same with most games as a service games.

@@jonathoncook8367 Anything can be twisted and perverted for selfish purposes, gaming is not immune to this. it wasn't always like this though, there was a time when playing a game was on par with reading a book. You did it for pure escapist fun but then moved on once It was over. It did not consume all your time and money like they are trying to do now.

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I played the campaign of Avengers and enjoyed it. I tried playing the Hawkeye and Black Panther expansions when they released, but it just didn't feel quite as good. Also the gear system didn't make much sense for a Superhero game, especially considering there was gear for the Hulk. Most of the "new" characters were also just copies of old ones, which wasn't super exciting.

@@timotheninja the Wakanda expansion was ok except for the final boss. Cheap as hell. Also didn't like the whole sonic and vibranium damage types they tried to introduce. Made it overly complicated. I just kinda contributed Hulk's great to "adaptations." Gotta do something to apply it, right?

The whole ten year plan thing is more of a projection. Once the playerbase falls and keeps falling, they cut it off indefinitely, even if they're choosing into working on anything for those ten years.

They do that multiple currency thing explicitly to make the mental math for working out what's good value all but impossible. Makes it much harder to remember just how much money you paid and for what. When i see a game do that i immediately uninstall it because its clear evidence the people in charge of it are happy to prioritise every tiny profit squeeze they can IN SPITE of our known desire not to be squeezed. Like they saw their players having an unpleasant time with oppressive monetisation and instead of going "maybe we should stop this" they went "how can we subvert these people's will and trick them into doing what we want anyway?" And that, frankly, makes me sick

Live service games are just playable cash shops.

@@mr.s9783 i laugh at your “playable” lmaoo

Lol this is just objectively false. The game does not do that, you're actualy straight up lying.

@@zc8673 except it's not, I checked just yesterday and I was in fact correct. Maybe it's only the PS4 version of the game but I would doubt that.

@@kempolar9768 could be console only. PC has a mouse, so nothing would be pre-selected.

They definitely know that too, it’s almost like they hope that’s what happens

Loot boxes is gambling

@@leahcimwerdna5209 this and gacha 👍

I started playing Fortnite a little before covid and I had spent 6 MONTHS in the game over 2 years. I don't want to know how much money I spent during that time. I did play a lot with friends, though, and met new friends from it, so it wasn't all bad, but I'm never spending that much time or money on a game again. I'd play late into the night trying to grind out the battlepass (which is spread out over 200+ levels now), or in the Save the World mode trying to grind a dollar or two worth of v-bucks so I could get something in the item shop. People should definitely be aware of how much time and money you can unintentionally sink into these games, especially because so many kids play them.

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@@gameranxTV 👌

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@@gameranxTV 👍🏼

@@gameranxTV btw, when you go on to talk about Anthem, at one point you mention it was made by respectful developers, and a giant "DICE" logo appears. I thought the game was made by BioWare

sounds more like your sister's fault, also better off just sitting kids down and telling them they can't have every little thing they see, or maybe she should have actually playing with her kid, doesn't take very long (as long the fortnite's store isn't just littered with everything that isn't needed). Sorry just parents really need to pay more attention to these things heck could has easily put a password on the card in the store.

Very well said you read my thoughts exactly.

New game plus on max difficulty

That screams destiny 2

Oh man, I had that feeling when I finished the Mass Effect trilogy for the first time.

@@lucianwong420 Same. That is what really makes a game/series stand out in my mind. If you have a minor existential crisis after finishing a game, you know it was good lol.

HELLO 👋 I JUST FARTED 🤣🤣🤣

IKR it's like you just bought a game that you don't actually own... ...now imagine if your internet was satellite (or worse)!

I know this a game I am definitely a fan of, its my all time favorite live service game.Its all you said and more.

Ff14 is one of thouse games that got fixed to a playable state after 1.0 and coming on the the game around the hevensward expansion I have been happy with the main story so far and I have played through endwalker as well yoshi p is doing a good job with it

Game is good but it has subscription on top of having a cash shop and you still need to pay for the game itself and expansions.

​@@lstsoul4376 you don't need anything in the cash shop doofus, and it's a gigantic mmo just like 11... of course it has a subscription, you know to pay for the servers... and further development...

@@Azhrei2000 There’s ton of f2p games without any subscription so your last sentence doesn’t make sense. I don’t see any problem is purchasing the game and maybe its expansion, but I won’t play it because of the monthly fee which I disagree

This exactly.

I hate both

@@Loctorak that is you, there are plenty of diamonds in the rough such as Final Fantasy 14.

Thanks for your suggestion

The game has enough to entertain you for years if you don't rush it like a lot of veterans who now complain cuz there's nothing to do. Just play with a slow or normal pace and trust me you'll be very satisfied. I know from experience, been playing since 2014 I still have things to farm, get and test out in that game Every moment is precious to me.

@@whysoserious4274 This is true. I was a fairly early adopter but stepped away from it for a while. When I was last there, it was worlds different from my previous visit, but there is still a lot to explore (I remember when the boss, The Jackal, was a new addition.)

@@thejackal007 yep Warframe has gone through many changes and most of it has been positive. Deserves more love than some other free to play games ( looking at you genshin )

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Love service does sound kinda noice!

Agreed

Then you hate the concept....

@@jonwayne6341 No, I don't. If a company released a complete game then spread the additional content out I wouldn't mind.

Oh please! They roll out BS all the time, & everyone knows its old man Falcon that hates LSGs because they're full of really capable & seriously sweaty gamers & Falcon just wants to chill and play single player games. Nothing wrong w/that, but if "everyone" hates LSGs, why is everyone playing them? Maybe that's why they're hated, because they're fucking loved deeply by literally hundreds of millions of people. And I'm old, so this isn't an age thing. I started gaming only 5 years ago for a disability & the only stuff could get into was Fortnite & Destiny, which was unfortunate because I sucked & they're both high skill games, but I sweat my ass off & now I've got KD ratios in both games that a teen could brag about.

​@@JeighNeither what is with you and sweat? I feel like there is an underlying repressed issue here homie....and no I don't want to talk about it, ew.

Indeed. Falcon is the Vegeta to Jake's Goku.

Good bird? But birds aren’t real.

@@JeighNeither you have may have sucked when you started, but did you have fun?

but that is generally free to play game with a membership right? games that require a sub to play are typically just so much better then your typical free to play multipler game.

If it's not a PvP focused game (and sometimes even then) you gotta have some kind of central lobby area so you can see all the randoms in one place... mostly so that you can see them opening lootboxes and getting fancier stuff than you.

Examples?

​@@odst2247half of br games.

every FIFA ever since FUT was introduced

@@odst2247 Cod ww2 and fortnite. COD literally let you open loot mid lobby infront of everyone incentivesing players to buy crap. And fortnite is a living add

Fromsoft does a decent job of some aspects. If we're looking at a developer and a series that's been killing it with the content updates and support years after launch, it's IO Interactive and Hitman

@@BTBSOUNDS Hard agree! They’re another awesome example. I need to play those games again. I remember playing Blood Money as a kid and questioning my morality 😂

If a game is gonna be live service it has to be free to play with ALLOT of effort put in

Yes, but even from software could update their model. I hate their coop and won't recommend a single one if their games until it is improved. I may be fine going through multiple hassles just to play with others, but my friends won't. And yes, I know their reasoning. The fact remains in my opinion their games would be amazing coop games with some tweaks to the formula

@@jamesford871 the main issue I'd say would be lack of content. Destiny 2 especially. I love the concept of the game but there isn't shit unless your paying every fucking season, dlc etc. The content is also drip fed that it isn't shit unless you wait about a month for everything to be available.

I used to think that way too. Then you will get older and realize you only have so much time left in your life. Endless will become much less attractive.

​@@Ted_BellThe opposite. I don't feel like completing anything because it feels mandatory. With live service games and can mess around and hope off whenever without feeling like I need to finish anything.

​@@Hidden_lvlreally depends on the game though, if you're talking a multiplayer shooter where your full loop is an hour or less you technically "beat the game" in that hour, doesn't matter if you didn't look pretty or get that gun you wanted, you can still have experienced all you need to, but when you have a huge story or a full chapter you're missing because you failed to pay to get through your MC's revenge fantasy or missing entire minigames... It feels petty.

mmorpgs have always been live service though thats the point of the game but they was made that way for an actual purpose rather than just for money these shooters that are considered live service or no different from old lan shooters other than you pay for upgrades or wait a really long time for upgrades. they turned a 30min shooter experience in to a 365 day experience for no reason other than to sell u upgrades. theres no extra social interaction amongst players like mmorpgs brought in

@@alaskanmalamute101 live service FPS be like, "Here's some update, but it's all microtransaction, though" Destiny, Warframe and Planetside (does this count as a live service?) are the one that's okay in my book

id argue mmos like ffxiv arent a true live service since u have to pay a monthly fee. that model has been out since the late 90s.

Well, not more than NMS

Ah yes overrated 14

Genshin being a gacha is a curse. you can't deny it's success and reputation sure but it's all because of the gacha system in place and it's not kind at all. I'm more of a Warframe person At least every character on there is not in a gacha and can be unlocked free It just requires a little grinding and even the special currency in the game is farmable which gets you exp or credit boosters and a lot of cosmetics to try on your Warframe, your ship and your weapons. It's a much better game And it has a story too that is also developing and the lore is huge if you take the time to understand it Very beautiful game in my opinion. Idk If you have the time you should give it a try if you haven't already I have feeling you won't be disappointed.

@@whysoserious4274 in fact played some Warframe before. I first got into it on PS4 in 2019, but that was 3 or 4 years ago so I don’t know if I made some or barely any progress at all on my character. I tried to get back into playing the game last year and idk why I didn’t invest some time into the story. The characters just seem sort of confusing to know who’s who, but imo it’s much better than Destiny 2 in terms of overall player experience. Regarding Destiny 2’s recent expansion, Lightfall, even it’s somewhat good (besides the awful story from what I’ve heard) I’m not really as much of a Destiny 2 player when the Forsaken expansion came out than I am now to care let alone play all the way to the end. Anyway, those are my thoughts on live service games and the like (I guess I can consider Warframe a exception as a consistently good game) so have a good day or night

@@rurio3723 it's all good I understand. Warframe's story is strange if you don't know where to start You have to read about it a lot to be able to understand what it is the tenno do and why they do it. Some of the story quests tell the more important parts but you won't understand those important parts if you don't read on the smaller parts. I'm not forcing playing the game I just mean like Warframe is there if you run out of options on what to play it won't mess around with you You know what you are getting And the game is a lot more fun with people mainly friends You can kick back, crack a cold one, blast some music or a podcast and enjoy your Warframe builds or some relaxing farming in the open world planets and all can be done at your pace You're not racing anybody to be the best or to stay up to date. Been playing the game since 2014 and there's still a lot I do in the game and I still find ways to get entertained and get distracted. Well anyway I've said my piece You have a good day too.

@@whysoserious4274 plenty of people do prefer open world games, and plenty more are able to play without spending money.

I feel like that absolute WORST aspect of these games is the "Always online" or "online only" aspect. IT. IS. AWFUL... It's the worst, ever...

@@drinnerd8532 It's should be a law these days, but sadly lawmakers these days are still boomers / semi-boomers that knows nothing about games, maybe in 30~40 years where everyone was born with internet or cellphone, they'll put laws for these kind of games.

Dude quit tempting fate

you mean like gacha games? cause they primarily come from the west, there are only a few being made in the west called lootboxes over here, but seems to get so much more hate.

I understand the sentiment, but these games live off of people's attention to them. Put simply, I just don't think most of these games are even worth remembering.

Wrong

Fortnite seems to be the only good live service.

make games like they where before the live service craze?

@@adad87821 That would be the goal but then, how do we monetise the game, realistically? Players won't purchase premium games on mobile anymore, seeing how many high quality games are there for free :)

@@santibadia3097 you are talking to old people mostly, I doubt there are much if any people who have commented that play on mobile.

I mean i just meet up with my friends in person but you do you

The Division series is one of the best live service games out there. Lots of ppl hate on it though because they had false expectations of it. It IS supposed to be a grindy, repetitive shooter "MMO" with gear progression not an immersive, story focused experience.

I just started a 3rd (4th?) playthrough of The Division 1 on Xbox, may go back to The Division 2 when I'm done & play through Warlords of NY again (had it on PS4 & finished it)! I bloody love those games!! The best "listen to a podcast & play" games ever created!! 🙂

@Exo Falz I was actually referring to The Division 2, not Destiny 2. I got put off of Destiny 2 for the exact reason I stated in my comment. I came into it after they'd already vaulted a ton of content. I was looking forward to starting at the beginning and playing through this giant story, but then I realized the content was no longer available. Uninstalled a few hours after. It felt like watching a series on Netflix and having to start at season 6.

@@SomeUnkindledAsh Amen to that! Same reason I got out of Destiny 2...it felt like running a race, but I had to start at the Starting Line & everyone else got to start at the halfway mark?!

same could be said for a wife, but often you stay because theres the little something that makes her special And yea you can explore others but it will never be the same as The One I think a lot of gamers eventually have their "One Game"

Two words my friend Smooth brains

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My top 3

You know that those fallout games released "incomplete" in the way you have described right?

@@devastatheseeker9967 OK let’s compare. Fallout 3, 4, & NV(launch date): yes a bit buggy(pretty much a feature when it comes to all Bethesda off-line games). However the vanilla Game has so much content that leaves you playing for months, even without DLC & Mods(I never use mods). In my first run of those games, I barely had any problems. My friends and I gave all three of those games high praise back then(as did many others that I met). Anthem: story is below average, has no replay value, The grind is so extreme(seriously The reputation grind is absurd), The Titans rarely spawn, and the bugs were WAY worse than the Bethesda engines(same goes for the loading screens. Ugh They were longer than all The fallout loading screens). And don’t get me started on Battlefield 2042.

@@Steel-101 okay now compare those games to cyberpunk 2077's launch and realise how fucking stupid you are for thinking live service games are any different quality wise. Live service games are great. Bad games are bad games regardless of the kind of game it is.

@devastatheseeker9967 No, you could play all those games from start to finish but they are generally buggy. Live service games don't even have a complete story, and they are buggy.

For every Warframe there's a destiny.

I really wouldn't say that it "pays off". You managed to make some friends and have good times, you can easily do that and also not be hooked on a trashy live service game.

I liked the new BF 2 (of course I didn't get it until long after everything was fixed)

@@mistermidnight1823 I just got Bf2 a few weeks back. There are some amazing mods for it as well, including an overhaul with partner mods that essentially add stuff to the game as if the game was still supported.

I preordered, lol. Learned my lesson back then. Big shame bc the game was great even on release, but intentionally held back by their monetization. They should've just went cosmetic gacha and leave the gameplay alone.

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HI 👋 I JUST FARTED 😂😂😂

Give it some time….

So just stop. Buy a real game and play it. RE4R is really good.

@@bpdmf2798 Oh, I know it’s good. I have the collectors edition.

HELLO 👋 I JUST FARTED 🤣🤣🤣

Thought I was the only person that caught that

Games started out as an extra form of entertainment which was a good description for most games. I honestly believe that multiplayer social side of gaming is nothing but a huge PITA as the communities are often filled with absolute clowns, just downright nasty people or cheaters. I do not know of one gaming community that is a great place to be a part of and I've been playing games for 40+ years at this point.

@@proffessorX As an almost exclusively solo player I have seen many great gaming communities, mostly around modding, Minecraft, Skyrim, Terraria, ARK. I do not agree that games are supposed to be social, but I do appreciate some of the communities that have formed around my favorite games. As for communities of competitive gamers in online games, no idea, I avoid them like the plague because I bet they're horrible, people can be the worst

@@AlabasterJazz I think that's just because you're not social. Nothing's wrong with that, per se, but I disagree on the statement that games are "not supposed to be social". Going by that, competitive sports in general like basketball wouldn't even be a thing. If you haven't found a good community of competitive gamers, you simply weren't looking for it. Fighting game communities are practically the "gymbros" of gaming, for example. There are plenty of Discord servers hosting custom matches of their favorite games between the members just for the fun of it. There are games that can be played by your lonesome, and that's great. I love them too. But to disregard social games is downright silly. The history of games dates to the ancient human past. Games are an integral part of all cultures and are one of the oldest forms of human social interaction. Games like chess didn't survive all these years and centuries just because they can be fun. The social aspect between the players are what kept it going to this day. Same goes for games like fighting games, which when you break down to its very core, is no different than chess, really.

@RunBaa I do agree with what you're saying, there is definitely a social aspect to a lot, if not most, games. But if a game has no social element but has all of the other factors that make it a game, it is still a game. For sports you have things like gymnastics, or rock climbing, or running/swimming, which of course can be competitive, but can also be enjoyed entirely solo. Just so for games. Games can be designed, and done well, with no element of sociability built in. So games are not inherently social, but there is definitely a social aspect to many games. I'm sure both types are as ancient as each other, and both as endearing to groups of people for many reasons. My greater point, is even as reclusive as I am, also with 40+ years of gaming, there are some great communities of gamers, they're not all toxic, for instance even this channel has it viewers, and that is part of a "gaming community" that is pretty awesome

@@proffessorX amen. The only good gaming community IMHO is outside the games, through in-person connections and events over games, or even online fan communities. But guilds, multiplayer, etc... Not the easiest place to find lasting meaningful friendships.

As soon as you make friends in a game like that, you're in trouble. You find yourself playing just because of friendships and not because the games are enjoyable lol.

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Alll the extra stuff is done so well people WANT to give them money. They released a cosmetic dlc and it hit top 5 dlc on steam. FOR SKINS. People are just that thankful about DRG

Rock And Stone

Rock and Stone!

Yeah but it's still live service for the express purpose of making people spend money. Just because a game is enjoyable doesn't make it any less predatory

@@JohnDoe-hj9fh So, it simply being a live service game makes it bad by default? Like, is this a hot-take, or what??