**THE AUDIO IN THIS VIDEO IS MESSED UP. It will sound different coming out of different speakers so if you are having a hard time with it, it may help to watch it on something else or switch speakers / headphones. I'm so sorry, the problems have been fixed 4 future vids** This video took so much out of me. I had to re-record certain segments due to complete audio failure. In the middle of working on it I had my computer die causing me to lose files. You may have seen me ranting about this in my community posts and my patrons know how much I struggled. This whole process was pretty emotionally draining but this is a topic I’m really passionate about and I hope can help you or at least give you some entertainment. I’m very sorry for some of the quality issues with this video, the problems have been fixed for future videos and I have more planned in this style. Big thank you to my sponsor Rose Forever who allowed me to delay this video and gave me financial support allowing me to dedicate more time and effort to this video. I sincerely appreciate it. Shop Rose Forever NY: bit.ly/3svRjSG Get $25 off your order with: LovelyLor25
I had 3 people post in this sound style today and thought it had become a trend 😂😂😂 it wasn’t terrible sounding, almost like playing a record on a record player instead of through speakers, but the content was good enough to make up for that❤
I would like to read a transcript for this video since I was not able to hear part of it due to your sound issues that i know you couldn't help. If you or someone else could create that, I would really appreciate it and I think others would too. Thanks for your serious, well presented views.
@@kathyjohnson2043 Seconded. No matter what I do, I can't understand anything she's saying, it sounds like it's being put through some kind of garble filter like what they use on investigative shows to mask someone's voice. It doesn't help that I already have an audio processing disorder and tinnitus. I really want to support this video because she worked so hard on it, but it's completely unintelligible even with headphones. Even just having captions on that she transcribes would make it watchable for me.
I was walking around in Osaka in lolita and another lolita gave me a really disgusted look. It kinda shocked me a bit because lolitas were the last people I ever expected to be nasty
I went to one meet up 10 years ago and our group picture ended up posted on a hate forum. Haven't gone to a meet since. This year I turn 30 and I'm tired of worrying so much about what other people think. I'm finally going to get back out there.
That's the right mindset. Don't let them keep you from having fun. In 2004 one of my local comm leaders (this happened before I joined the local comm) posted meet up pictures to an anonymous drama site. It was a pretty big scandal and she was kicked out.
Honestly, I think the newer Lolitas are much more chill. I’m not super new, but I’m not like a veteran, and I’ve found that online spaces seem to be much more friendly and relaxed than they used to be I wish you luck, and lots of fun
I've always said that to be a lolita you have to have a kind of punk-rock mentality. The idea that people will stare at you and/or mock you can't be something on your mind when you wear it; you have to have a thick enough skin to say, this is MY style and I am going to KEEP wearing it no matter what anyone else thinks. People will be mean, but they will be mean to anyone who stands out. Backing down feels like letting those people and their judgment control my actions.
I remember when I first started the fashion, I joined the Big sisters of lolita group. It was great because it was a mentor group and you had all the resources there and could ask any questions! One time I posted a non lolita dress asking if it was lolita-able. A lot of nice lolitas gently explained the reasons it wouldn't work without a lot of altering. Others said it reminded them of certain dresses, but needed embellishments. A couple said something like 'wtf' or 'this is embarrassing'... I deleted it right off. I was really grateful to the lolitas who were willing to explain to newbie me. And then Cupcake Kamisama did a great video titled something like "why your hellbunny dress isn't lolita" which really helped me understand better! The snarky comments didn't help me learn to do better.. all the lolitas showing me great resources did. I didn't let a few snarky comments deter me. I post my coord pics for myself to catalog my outfits. But I can only imagine having to face some of those forums... I'd likely keep all my photos private from then on 😭 Who knows, maybe I'm on one...but I won't be looking to find out!! I'd like to connect with more lolitas, but at the end of the day I wear it for me. Wish my nearest community wasn't a 3+ hour drive though 🥲
100% this! The answer isn't to turn newcomers away from the fashion--it's to be helpful and educate them so that they can have a good experience in the community.
When I started wearing lolita again in late 2017 after years of hiatus I looked up one of my old LJ lolita friends. I found out she had completely withdrawn from the community because she was a target of bullying. I don't know what it was about, as I knew her she was definitely not a bad person. She also dressed well and was one of the most popular lolitas in her comm in the old days. I think aside from the fatphobia, racism, lookism, etc there are some lolitas who struggle with jealousy and they will grow resentful of lolitas who have the type of wardrobe they wish they had, so they start bullying the lolitas they are jealous of. I personally don't have a tendency towards jealousy, so that's why I thought it was very childish. But now I know there is no age limit on jealousy, I have a 37yo nonlolita friend who struggles with it. I asked her to explain it to me, and she said that when she's not feeling her best and she sees someone else having a great time or improving their life then she feels worse and she starts to grow resentful. She can't help how she feels, but she is self aware about it and feels guilty for her jealousy. So if anyone here is struggling with jealousy please take good care of yourselves.
I imagine the "keeping the fashion pure" elitism also gets into slutshaming and violence against sex workers territory as well. I don't know enough about the online forums to know if it happens there or not, but I imagine malicious outing and harassment over sw history or leaked private info on their sex life would probably be a huge problem as well. Like, considering things like how I've seen someone complain about another lolita also posting videos in other styles that are more revealing on the same tiktok account they post lolita on, the accusations lolitas made against a certain lolita who left the internet accusing her of being part of a certain nsfw community (the one mentioned in the vid Pearlie Cute made on Melanie Martinez), and how common things like malicious outing are in other communities, it would surprise me if no one has been harassed in that way on those boards. Like, there are definitely some lolitas who do sex work outside of their lolita life, and there are definitely some who enjoy nsfw things outside of lolita. And people can be vicious with trying to connect a sex worker's sw account to anything and everything else they post online and their irl life, and there are exs who will air every detail of someone's sex life to smear them. I've also seen stalkers maliciously out people as well. And there's also how a lot of the types of people on those boards think literally everything is a kink. Their transphobia makes them accuse any amab person who wears lolita and their s/o of having a kink, their fatphobia makes them accuse the s/o of every plus sized lolita of having a kink, their ableism makes them accuse the s/o of every disabled of having a kink, etc. And I've also seen people outside of those boards imply they think people who coord AP's Dreamy Babyroom with a short sleeve blouse and short socks of being in a certain kink community (or sometimes just people who like the dress/own it/want to own it/etc.). It's disturbing how much these people will sexualize others.
Yep… for some reason the Lolita community (which is an alternative community) has a real problem with other alternative communities that I do not understand. Just because somebody is into something you’re not doesn’t mean they’re going to pursue you sexually just because you share an interest in a modest fashion style. It’s bizarre.
This needs to be talked about in the comm so much more. I don’t care if you want your fashion “pure” sex workers are allowed to have interests and should not be put down
@@Hunter-vm1or absolutely agree, I got shoved out of my entire national community because somebody traced down my Reddit post history and it had something nsfw in it. It’s like they all go “oh no! This person has a sex life, that’s not Lolita at all”. I’m an adult, I can have an interest in something and not pursue it 24/7 or bring it into other spheres where it’s inappropriate.
@@JustAbbyToday I'm high key terrified of the possibility of someone from my comm finding my twitter. I'm an artist that does mostly nsfw (mostly in the vien of like, pinups rather than full explicitness) and a lot of it is kink related. A few people from the comm know I draw pinups and stuff and have done them as commissions, but they have not seen my suggestive and/or nsfw art and their knowledge of it stops at there. Two people know I draw that and that I am incredibly pro-kink (between consenting adults, keywords consenting and adults) because of times where we were talking outside of comm related things and I vented about a sexual harassment situation I was experiencing where those were very relevant (someone used those as excuses to sexualize me without my consent, basically sexualizing everything I did/said bc pro-kink pinup artist, plus other problematic behavior). I also to one comm member outside of comm stuff did say a certain nsfw community wasn't an issue as a whole, but rather the issue was people kicked out of the main community for it for being creeps looking for new prey wherever they can (and thus in lolita communities), and in some cases it isn't even about that nsfw thing but rather that nsfw community is their shield for when they get caught being a predator, and explained my own experiences with people associated with three other different nsfw communities doing the exact same things to me through emo, goth, therian and furry communities (the creeps either were kicked out of those communities before, or never actually liked the nsfw thing they just knew people would focus on that instead of the pedo shit). And also "if they really were into that why would they look for people to do it with in lolita communities when there are communities for doing that stuff full of consenting adults who want to do it?" I've also been harassed by people for making content of certain kinks before, and harassed for drawing petite adults (I am a petite adult myself, it was art of characters with my own body type I was harassed over). A lot of the latter was heavily transphobic and mysogynistic in nature and body shaming my irl body type. So yeah I sometimes worry I'm on like thin ice with my comm over that stuff and if my twitter (current one or old one) or my pixiv gets found by someone and they somehow connect it to me they will flip and I will be banned from all comm groups for the state. But then also maybe I'm a bit too paranoid? One of the comm members I've talked about the sexual harassment situation to and also brought up the past experiences in emo, goth, furry and therian communities to has mentioned drawing ecchi and also has made "the internet was made for porn" references when joking around about the internet being weird during meets before. And then there's someone in the comm I friended who often shares stuff from agere pages on fb and like, "agere" communities are really just nonsexual dee dee el gee claiming they're sfw because they're nonsexual even though nonsexual kink exists and has existed long before them, and they do the same exact stuff and use the same exact aesthetics for the same exact reasons. So it's not like I'd be first on the chopping block I think. And if someone maliciously outs me, the comm member who draws ecchi is a mod and I assume will be able to be to get everyone to use their brain for a sec like "but he hasn't brought this into the comm at all, the one involving the comm in it is [person who maliciously outs]."
@@alistairrosehearts9734 yeah it’s a weird area, in my case I’m very new to Lolita and communities and haven’t met anybody yet so somebody linked my reddit to my handle on other platforms and then instantly I was just banned from groups I’ve never even been a member of. It was a very weird behaviour from my point of view because there’s nothing wrong with any kink (as you say ✨between consenting adults only✨) and I’m the kind of person who actually practices the whole consent is key focus, so in a group of people who regularly complain that their consent isn’t asked for, or is breached, by outsiders they’ve just expelled somebody who’d actually help fix that problem, and can signpost actual training on how to handle those issues that’s freely available. I don’t know if you’re being too paranoid, I do think my local comms are probably being way too crazy about things. It took me long enough to find out why I was suddenly - and without discussion or warning - ejected from all the groups. Very kneejerky reaction to something they clearly don’t understand. Which is again, exactly the thing the Lolita comm complains about in terms of people having overtly sexual reactions to the fashion, and sexualising comm members. In the end I feel like the whole Lolita community just hugely sexualised me, whilst claiming to be defending the children or themselves from me sexualising them, something I would never actually do because I’m not a monster. I hope your comm can tell that you too are not some kind of monster just because you like different things than they do in private spaces.
I've been into lolita for 5 months now and I was terrified for my first meet. I don't like make-up or wigs and admittedly was terrified of judgment. I was so surprised when everyone was so kind and welcoming, exchanging tips and advice. Kindness and compliments, the organiser of the meet after said I looked beautiful and hopes to see me again. Maybe I was lucky but It was a meet within the North of England and never felt more comfortable with a group of ladies. It's upsetting to hear how things can be for others...
As a lolita in the north of England myself (though one that's not actually been in the IRL community for a while), I just thought I'd add in that the northern English comms have a reputation for being really good, so your experience sounds pretty typical for around there... And depending where you are, you might even meet Cupcake Kamisama!
I'm part of a Lolita group in Colombia in South America and the girls and guys are so open and accepting!! I think it's partly because they receive a lot of judgment from their fellow people 😢I am from the USA, But learning Spanish here🎉
Also, I find that people in person just tend to be nicer than the people online. The people online use anonymity to their advantage. Of course bad eggs still exist, but a lot of time, the people who show up are just kind people with a genuine love for the style I live in a place with a very small community, only like 5-8 active Lolita’s. And all of them seem like sweet people
I saw someone today on Tumblr who said that cringe is a mirror of our own shame and I've been thinking about it since, then your video came out! People who bully, who post to these anonymous forums--it is so, so much more about their own state of mind, what is going on in their own lives, and their own insecurities than it is about the you, the victim. That doesn't mean that your own hurt and pain are invalid, but it is really an important thing to remember since it reminds us that there is a human on the other end of the screen, even if they've forgotten that about you. You don't have to forgive, but as someone who has a long, long past with being bullied, it does help to understand. Anyways, I'm still forming thoughts on this, but thank you for such a thought provoking and wonderful video, Lor! You clearly put a lot of care into this video and it is such a fraught topic that I really appreciate you tackling it.
I read an interesting bit about what makes humans cringe. It's a form of second hand embarrassment. The more you feel the need to be part of a group and the more value you place on it, the more you will cringe if you see someone commit what would be a rule violation for that specific social group. It doesn't have that much to do with certain insecurities you have about yourself, but those do end up playing a big role when people project their own insecurities on others and bully them.
The thing is, I think most people these days know that. Most people are aware that it’s the bullies that clearly have the issue. The problem is everyone knows that but the bullies. That’s what makes them so grating and irritating to deal with: They’re so embarrassingly transparent, yet pretend they’re not, or don’t even realize they are. Then they try to make their transparent issues everyone else’s problem. Employing violence to aid in pointing the finger at everyone else for their problems. It’s obnoxious to deal with whether you know why they do it or not. Knowing how and why a fire started and how to put one out doesn’t undo the damage it causes.
I had to go to an anxiety treatment center for my years of frequenting /CAWCAW/ because it developed into debilitating OCD in which I had to post exactly 13 times a day to avoid some “catastrophe.” It all started because a higher ranking member of my past community posted me on gtfo*beep* with an untrue accusation which then alienated me from the community and drove me to feel like all I had was anonymous forums. I hated every moment of it. I was unhappy and my life is so much better now without it.
I had similar mental issues because of anonymous forums. It might have been what is now deemed digital SH, but young teenage me had no business on there. Nobody does. But back then, I was truly shocked at the nasty bile that was spewn about and in a morbid way, I could not stop consuming it. It made me paranoid and fed every nasty nook and cranny of my insecurity. Coupled with my existing OCD which was at its worst in good ol' 2013, I can safely say that these god-awful websites stole a good 1-2 years of my life. It made me go from a hopeful budding young'in who had fallen in love with lolita, to absolutely hating it and being damn near afraid to ever wear it. I healed again and started wearing it 8 years ago, never looked back. Good riddance to these sites and I hope that the bitter, elitist people who run them find true happiness.
The part about being overstimulated and consuming content constantly hit really close to home, i really appreciate hearing that said out loud?? Like I totally do this
Yessss I remember when she first posted a response about this situation and so many people were getting angry at her, calling her a liar and saying things like "how could you possibly hit Like on something without realizing what it was?!" Not only has this happened to me several times because I have a tremor in my hands, but I certainly have idly hit Like just as a matter of scrolling by. I was so startled that the idea was absurd to people that I realized I had a problem with my consumption of online content too and forced myself to cut back.
I had followed a lot of lolita blogs around 2012. Several years ago, I started wondering about some of the lolitas I followed who disappeared completely. It’s not terribly unusual to outgrow a fashion community, so I didn’t think much of it, but I was curious what they were up to. Looking up names, I saw the most awful, hateful anonymous lolcow stuff about their health, personal relationships and more. Not only cruel, but intrusive and kinda sadistic. The internet, man. I really appreciate hearing your story here.
That was a lot to unpack but I'm glad it was said. Thank you, Lecture Lor ! I was in a lolita Facebook group that no longer exists. It was supposed to be more of a safe space with little judgment. It was private and required vetting to get in. Around Halloween, there was a thread of everyone posting coords. Someone in the group saved photos and posted them to anaon forums for the ita thread. I found out about it because the mods of the group announced it to let members know they do not condone this behavior and this is not what the group was created for. I would have never normally checked this forum but I wanted to know if I was posted (which I was). The bullying was ruthless, especially picking at people's physical traits. This kinda pushed me back from posting coords online again. The incident also caused the group to close. I didn't understand why people were like this and what would bring them to bully strangers. This video brings up a lot of things I wondered about. I feel it breaks down to insecurity and jealousy. It's sad really. However, I've experienced way more positive experiences in lolita, like making friends, doing fun activities, and feeling overall really cute. I still wear the fashion and know just to avoid those forums because the negativity is just not worth it. TL;DR Embrace the good and not the bad. You may miss out on great experiences.
Them picking on people's physical traits is one of the reasons I put a digital sticker over my face. If I'll ever end up in the ita thread then I'll be able to handle it if my face isn't in it. Every time I post an outfit picture online I check if they post me on that site and what they have to say. Whether it's concrit or mean comments I know I'm able to handle it as long as it's not about my face.
This is why I'm so glad my local lolita community is so kind to me. I knew my closest friend in the community before I even got into lolita so I had a built in support system and someone to go to for guidance, as she's pretty much been wearing lolita for longer then I've been alive haha.
this is so weird to me still because I've lacked a support system for the better part of my life and never took to hate forums on people. hope those people unironically get help, I however don't and can't really sympathesize
I want to say that I empathize and agree with you wholeheartedly. While bullied, I never took to becoming a bully myself. When I was insecure, I never intentionally resorted to cruelty towards strangers and innocent people or put them down in order to feel better about myself. I'm not above feeling jealousy and envy, but I wouldn't attack those who made me feel that way. I truly never fell into this habit, and I have felt isolated as a result, for not being "cruel enough" in order to fit in with everyone else making jabs at someone else's expense. And it's also why I never once fell down the anti SJW rabbit hole of the mid 2000s reactionary internet. The times I was mean because I assumed wrong about someone, I felt such deep regret and guilt and apologized right away if I could. So yeah it's incredibly hard to relate to people who have participated in the toxic culture, even though they now repented and changed their mentality. I am absolutely capable of being mean, spiteful, and rabidly aggressive, but I try to reserve that for people who have done awful things or perpetuate harmful beliefs, basically people who deserve it. Not someone who is a little quirky or has "weird" looks/habits and is otherwise minding their business.
Gosh...this made me feel things. I am more in cosplay than lolita but I felt a lot of this. I have been struggling to confront specific people out of fear of being the bad guy for doing so. Not great for me in any way. And also been going over content creation, burn outs ect with my therapist. It's been helping a lot. I don't have to always be making content for the internet on top of my full time job. That's not healthy. It's not possible with out a burn out. And I have been needing to limit my online time more after this realization.
I was interested in lolita fashion for a period of time a year or two ago. I'm glad you made this video, because the constant insecurity, gossip, drama, judgmental attitude, and overall unfriendliness of the community was very off putting. I've had many very niche and odd hobbies / interests / scenes that I've been involved with in my life, and by far the most unfriendly has to be lolita. Of course, *not everybody* gave a negative experience, but the general discomfort was certainly there. Lovely video as always, Lor.
Thank you for posting this. I've been a lolita for over 10 years but I'm not active in the community because of all the bullying. I already get bullied for being plus sized and turning to lolita made it worse when I thought it would help. I'm slowly trying to inch my way back into the community
I’ve been orbiting Lolita fashion for quite some time now, always on the outskirts observing from a distance. Want to get into it but I’m slightly scared to for this reason. Will definitely keep all of this in mind.
I used to wear lolita from 2003 until 2009, then picked it up again in late 2017. During the 2000s I participated but always had the fear I would be posted to drama sites (not for what I was wearing, but for my face and body), so I never posted outfit pictures of myself publicly. I did appear in group photos at meetups though. I just wore the fashion without taking pictures a lot of the time, even wore it daily at one point. When I started wearing it again there was a hurdle in getting back to the community. Another lolita recommended a digital sticker over my face, that's what she did. I ended up using that to participate on my own terms, even show my face occasionally.
Dang, this hit close to home on a lot of things. I'm not a lolita, but I think a lot of these are relevant to a lot of alternative social scenes. Also, I remember back when some people were mad at you for liking that picture and you said it was a mistake and some people were saying, "How can you accidentally like a picture on IG?" and my initial response was, "What? I like random pictures on social media without looking at them all the time." For reasons unrelated to that incident, I later realized that was a sign of my unhealthy relationship with social media, the fact that I would interact with things without even absorbing them.
@@itsalwayshalloweenexceptwh5118finally someone said this. Other alt fashion can get mad at us and over exaggerate and say we're elitest but they don't look in the mirror sometimes. Yes Lolita has their fair share of issues at times but that's doesn't distract from the fact that some other associated fashion can have the same issues. I follow a goth youtuber who was featured on a vice special about east la goths and the scene became so toxic for her that she now only associates as a lone goth these days.
@@witchingbrew3 I think it's interesting how the lolita community has a reputation for being "elistist meanies who gatekeep" but people often think it's completely fine if other fashion/hobby communities engage in the same, then it's suddenly "Every group gets to set standards and have rules, that's reasonable.". Or when lolitas complain about concrit culture and claim it's unique to lolita. But it's quite common in several different hobby groups and considered a natural part the group culture there. It's not something people commonly complain about except for in lolita fashion. Can you imagine throwing a tantrum after someone suggests you use a more durable paint for your model ship and has specific suggestions on what to buy? I expect such drama to be quite rare yet the lolita equivalent of it happens at least once or twice a month. I wonder how it happened that the lolita comm is held to this standard that people don't hold other hobby groups to. When other groups have standards and rules and concrit culture it's acceptable and reasonable, but when we do it we're bad people.
Lor, I’m not in the lolita community, but the section on “being addicted to the rush of self sabotage” really hit close to home. This video was beautifully made and helped remind me that I shouldn’t care what faceless people on the internet think… if I’m good enough for myself, that’s all that matters.
I'm waiting for my headphones to charge while I'm at work but wanted to add in my two cents: while all communities have their problems, it falls on every community to do better. I am sick of hearing people defend themselves with the excuse that all hobbies and interests have their issues. That's not helpful, that only allows worse things to happen. People need to be held accountable. And if you allow this behavior to continue, it's a great way to destroy a community. I've seen enough groups and meet ups perish because someone made everyone uncomfortable. People stopped showing up and interacting, so now we don't have that meetup unless someone wants to try again...but with all the bitterness and bad memories, it's unlikely. Don't let that happen. We can do better
This is what kept me from the community for so long and even though I collect Lolita now, I am not super active in my community out of fear of some of this. Thank you for talking about it Lor.
I have lots of thoughts but this one just stood out most: I don't really want Lolita to be established as more mainstream if it means watering down the fashion? While I love the more experimental coords from seasoned lolitas, it often feels that some people join the fashion with their intent being to change it as if it wasn't good enough before they came to "fix" it (guess it goes to the same box as changing the fashion's name, -often- white folk attempting to fix a foreign originated fashion's name just feels... off) 🤔 I'm looking forward to the rules video you said you're working on, I'm sure that'll touch on the topic more. Also glad you got this video up despite all the hurdles 💕
Totally agree! Some people seem to want it to be another fashion... its okay to wear lolita pieces in other fashions. It doesn't all have to be lolita fashion, that's okay! Lolita fashion inspired outfits are cool too! A lot of the things I love about the fashion, like the emphasis on secondhand, the generally slower pace, re-wearing pieces for years, the specific silhouette, finding styles you like rather than hoping on every trend... I don't thing mainstream fashion is willing to do right now. And I don't want those aspects of the fashion to get... washed away by it being more mainstream? Though I guess there is a difference between being recognizable by mainstream and being incorporated by mainstream. Idk if that makes sense? I kinda like the rules, it's like a template and I get to challenge myself by working within the constrains to make a bomb coord! I really do like seasoned lolita's experimental coords. I think it comes down to knowing the rules in order to know which ones to break in my opinion.
@@catmeowinton2596 you phrased it so well! I can see the second-hand, sustainable aspect that I love in this fashion slipping away with push of taobao and Amazon accessories. I hate that the focus has become SOLELY accessibility (which is a noble but bit misled goal in a luxury fashion) while inevitably sacrificing the quality of the garments. I wish the next push in place of a sweatshop goods would be towards handmade pieces 🤞
I see what you mean. Some people want the label of lolita but don't like (pretty flexible, lax) rules. They are hell bent that lolita is whatever they say it is. They enter with the idea to change what the fashion is. On a side note: some Japanese lolitas have the same issue with the term lolita being used for the fashion. I don't think it's weird or inappropriate for non Japanese lolitas to discuss a name change, the only problem is that those discussions are a waste of time regardless of who started it.
@@itsalwayshalloweenexceptwh5118 that's fair, I wouldn't at all be opposed to changing the name but would hope it to originate from Japanese community efforts if at all. Might just be war flashbacks to every instance of someone posting to Big sisters of Lolita fashion with "Hey have you guys ever considered changing the name" 😂
@@SwimmingInSunlight Japanese lolitas know it's impossible as well. Brands use it, publications have used it. It's so ingrained it's impossible to change. The only way that many lolitas have found to deal with it is by not using the term in company of non lolitas.
that chronically online part really hit home for me. I feel like I need constant stimulation while doing anything. Even now I was cooking while watching your video and it's true: I often don't remember the details of the thousands of videos I watch throughout a year. I'll probably put my phone to the side now and eat my meal in quiet and I'll try to reduce the amount of social media I use
:/ I have a few people I know that have gotten beyond bullied in the Lolita community... and honestly, it makes me want to never talk to anyone outside of a small niche group of people I know. Because it's not just fashion mistakes that get you bullied... people have way too much time on their hands and get some sort of kick in hurting others as much as they can, going so far as to dox them and such. Like... that behavior makes me not want to meet up with people in this fashion. I've been in other communities, and never have I had that sort of behavior be acceptable or common, but it sure seems to be with this fashion. I'll continue to wear it around town and enjoy it, but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
very well said Lor, I used to be part of my local lolita comm years ago, it all started off fine then after a while I got a gorgeous new yami kawaii style Diamond Honey JSK, it was my first proper lolita dress and I was and still am really proud of it. On one particular meet up we all went to a cafe and hung out, one of the girls got 'triggered' by the cute medical themed animals on my dress and had to go outside and cry over it... I was wondering what the heck i'd done wrong! later on I was told in a group chat attack on FB messenger to not wear that dress again at any future events the crying girl would be attending, I refused and saw it all for what it was...they just didn't want me in the group for whatever reason and the queen bee of the comm was of course the one leading the assault. Now I just wear lolita from time to time by myself, far less drama that way lol
I feel like many people in the community were bullied when they were young or felt like an outsider, they found a community were they finally can have some power and they take out their pain and insecurity on other people in the community.
This is such a great video! You’re the only alt fashion persona I follow and I’m not involved in any communities, but I imagine all you’ve said is applicable to many different niches(esp. fem identifying ones). Bravo to growing and reflecting! Hope this helps everyone learn together and makes the world a lot kinder!
Lolitas are mean, in my opinion, because they by-and-large skew young. Mostly under 25s, mostly still learning how to navigate the world. While there are a few older ones in each community, you find they 'leave' as they get older, get full time jobs, have families, etc. And with that comes a certain level of maturity, of not vibing as much with the negative aspects of this culture. While this isn't the case for everyone, I think it explains a lot of it.
This video spoke to me on all of the deepest levels in ways i really wasn't expecting. My introduction to the lolita community was through Facebook- an incredibly toxic environment loaded with elitism and petty arguments. It gave me a very negative impression of the community when i posted my first bodyline coord and was met with a lot of "it looks cheap", or irrelevant comments about the angle and lighting of the photo looking unprofessional (i didn't own a camera, just a phone) and even got an "ew lol" and "i wouldn't be caught dead going outside like that". (I got maybe one helpful comment explaining something about the fit, how it might work better if i paired the set with a darker blouse, a different headpiece, and longer socks, but that moderator was the only person who was anywhere close to polite.) I would see those same attitudes on other people's coords, especially (but not limited to) beginners like me. It's incredibly discouraging to a low-income person who had been saving all year for something special, only to be torn down for it. I left the Facebook groups and distanced myself from the lolita community, admiring photos of big-name brand dresses from a distance and wishing I had enough money, seeing lolitas at various events and wishing i was comfortable enough to compliment them. I also had a terrible addiction to self-sabotage through negative internet interactions around this time. The spaces i sought out were, by nature, based in insulting and tearing down others. It took years for me to recognize this and leave those spaces- honestly, with a similar situation to what was described in this video... I responded inappropriately to a friend passing away, too. What i posted looked very different from what was talk about here, and what i posted *did* reach (and hurt) the people who knew her. That was my sign to leave all the online spaces that were teaching me this behaviour. The doomscrolling addiction resonates with me too. Only this year have i begun to learn how to be comfortable without constant background noise. Only this year have i been learning how to genuinely process the information i absorb. Last year i wouldn't have gotten through this video- the audio wouldn't have been "content-y" enough to satisfy my addiction, and my negative associations with the lolita community would have triggered some anger that i may have even directed towards people. I'm so proud to be improving- I'll definitely be taking the advice in this video into account, and i hope many others will do the same 🥰
I feel like becouse this fashion attracts women and lgbt people that means a lot of them have been hurt and opressed wich motivates them to take what power they can get and use it against others (from my experience in trans anonimus forums)
I've seen a shift from lolitas bullying eachother to more outsiders harassment. I do remember the time period in which presenting yourself at a meet or Conversation could mean something about you showing up on anonymous forums. Now it's more likely that someone showing their whole face will try to create drama in lolita from the outside. I had a moment of Online harassment back in 2017, and while it did make me reflect on my social media use-- what happened to me was wrong and the people who engaged in the behavior were in the wrong and people who tried to give input where no different than anyone else in the dog pile. I know it's hard not to give your 2 cents about issues on line, but often it's best not to add the stress this person is already going through.
I agree with everything but I also think we need to remember that everyone makes mistakes. We shouldn't all pile on to someone when they've made a mistake. It's fine to call someone out constructively for saying something incorrectly, but we also need to take a step back and remember that egl is supposed to be a fun hobby. It's not so serious that we have to defend its "purity." And if we don't allow for the fashion to grow and evolve, it's not going to stay around. There is no reason anyone should be sending death threats over frilly dresses.
I realized a few months ago that I would only check these websites when my mental health was bad, and it would invariable make it worse. and on some level I guess that was my goal right? even if it wasn't about me, I might see people saying horrible things about a friend or online aquaintence and that would honestly feel even more heartbreaking. I think what finally snapped me out of it was someone posted a picture of me and made transphobic remarks about me, even though I'm not trans! it left me completely baffled and I thought about it for days. I sort of realized how silly the whole thing was. I was letting these people/places take up space in my mind when they don't even know the first thing about me or anyone they talk about! so I installed a website blocker on both my phone and computer to stop myself from being tempted to look
Thank you for your insight and honesty. You gave me the building blocks for lolita and I am grateful to you for it. Posted my first coord to instagram in 2021. I was so worried that I would be put on blast, or scrutinized that I had to add “please be nice” in the caption. Today, I am experimenting a little more with the fashion and trying to spin it so it caters more to me. Am I perfect at it? No. Do I care anymore if I get called out about it? No. If you can’t have fun with something, then what are you having?
just so you know the audio problems make it so auto-captions will not work. (at least for me) It may be worth getting a transcriber or doing it yourself when you have time so it's easier for people to understand what's said, especially with such an important topic.
I love lolita but I've never actually tried real lolita. The closet I got was making agitha from legend of zelda twilight Princess, complete with the cute brolly, basket etc... but I know that's not lolita. I once mentioned to a lolita that I really loved the fashion, but that I was nervous to try it but that (at the time) I considered I was no longer skinny enough to try. In front of a whole group of people, she told me I was right and the fashion wasn't for me. So I've not tried. Although I will admit I have designed a few lolita inspired dressed that I might be brave enough to make onne day. Maybe making my own lolita inspired fashion would be okay for my local community
i'm going to comment this because i hope maybe someone will read it and have a better understanding of what kind of person does this bring them some peace. TW for mention of EDs, SA, and suicide. i used to be a frequent patron of an anonymous site before i started partaking in lolita. i would hide behind anonymity and post really mean, catty, fucked up things. it was disgusting and horrible, and i hope to god i haven't had any kind of lasting effect on the people i would bully, but it is likely that i did. at the time, i was deeply deeply hurting, i was living in an abusive household, i was being bullied at school. i was struggling with undiagnosed autism and BPD, body dysmorphia, a severe ED, internalized trans/homophobia, and to top it all off i had been violently SAed by my best (and only) friend. the mental and physical pain i had to live with was excruciating, and it just kept building up and getting worse over the years. i needed an outlet, but i didn't know how to healthily cope, so i hurt myself, and i abused others online. i had been hurt so much by things outside of my control, i wanted to be in control for once. when i threw abuse at others online, it felt like i was talking to all the people who had hurt me, not innocent human beings. it felt like retribution. the thing that snapped me out of it was an attempt i made to take my own life. being in the hospital was the first time in my whole life i had ever felt cared about, and it was the first time in a very long time that i had been shown any kindness at all. it completely broke me down, i started asking myself, why i would try to make other people feel the same pain that led me to something like that, and why should i not try to be the kindness that they might so desperately need? while my pain is an explanation of why i acted so horribly, no amount of pain excuses what i did. my behaviour in the past was absolutely unacceptable, it makes me feel sick. i wish i could personally apologize to everyone i hurt during that period of my life. since i can't do that, i am so deeply sorry to anyone who has been hurt by people who acted the way i acted. i wish you all healing, and i hope you all find the kindness and respect that you all deserve. i hope the people like me will find healing as well and stop hurting others.
It is wonderful that you not only survived but that you are in a better place now! I appreciate that you would feel guilty about what you had done in the past but I hope it does not ruin your outlook today.
Ngl I got scared off from the community before I even started :') I still enjoy the look of lolita. Became a historian in the meantime, I work in a museum now and moved on to historical fashion, it's probably going to stay that way :')
I always wanted to wear lolita fashion, been loving it since the glory days, and it was my gateway into historical and alternative fashion, but i never dared to. I made a few ita dresses, but I knew they wouldn't be considered real lolita and I never wore them... One thing is being judged by normies, but I was and still is terrified of lolitas. The first thing you learn about the community is how mean people used to be.
2 years ago, I randomly looked at one of those anonymous forums (out of morbid curiosity). Seeing the comments that people posted about other lolitas' coords made me sick... And ever since then, I'm afraid of posting on Closet of Frills (I heard that people take photos from that group and post them on anon forums). I don't really understand what could drive someone to post such hateful stuff, unless they are also insecure about themselves (Or maybe they have some sort of superiority complex). Regardless of the reasons, this video is definitely needed in the community.
I only got into lolita a few weeks ago, I am sewing my first coord as we speak. Every day I go back and forth about whether I should wear it at katsucon in a few weeks. Im so nervous but I like it so much idk.
I'm just a random person on the internet who's never seen it, but I think you should! my jaw always drops when people tell me they MADE what they're wearing, it's too cool and if it isn't perfect? it's not like wearing a less than perfect outfit is illegal, everyone will live another day
Thank you, you're right! Im from the sewing community, and crafters are usually their own worst critic in regards that every project has to be perfect. Thanks for reminding me its not that serious! XD
Conventions are great way to start wearing lolita in public and maybe even connecting with other lolitas! Hope you do have good time regardless what you wear there! ❤
Just cause ur envyious or jealous of someone as well as in a dark place doesn't mean you have the right to bully others no excuse for that horrible behavior, if u are going through something go to therapy don't take it out on others
I'm 2 years into Lolita and primarily just mingle in person and the occasional discord. It's been pretty positive. I think it's because I limit my interactions to in persons.
Same, scrolled through and it seems that the audio is off from 0-5:57, 6:22-8:30, and 19:42-25:10 (or so, might've missed some spots). If you skip to the parts between them though it's sounds fine 👍
I had to take a break from lolita for a while but this video makes me feel a bit more galvanized with my mindset. I will wear my dresses however I want. Thanks, Lor~
Because I rarely leave the house, I get to wear lolita even rarer. Combine that with how I got frozen out of my community because the resident Queen bee type used her connections to hide meets from me, spread rumours and badmouthed me behind my back. Due to her lovebombing and negging me before it all imploded, I started to wonder if I was the problem. It brought me some peace to hear she had done similar to 3-4 other people. Why do girl-centric◇ friendgroups do this to each other? (◇In my comm, there were mostly women and girls active. At the time, I was the only enby in there and the few guys retired before I finally joiner the comm.) All that to say, I'll keep loving lolita, even if the time I get to wear it is not as often/long. Hang in there fellow solitas ♡
Thank you. As a fem asd falling into outside of every community I've tried to join is so painful. Trying to create a support network and actually have care reciprocated is so hard. The lack of patience for newbies in every community is exhausting as someone that needs active learning and conversations to actually improve the "ah look it up, info is right there, are you stupid?" Just nope. Also the classism with the cost barrier.
I agree, some other hobby groups have similar toxic elements. As for the classism remark regarding the cost, everyone has their own cut off point for what they consider affordable so viewpoints on lolita fashion being affordable or not are going to differ. I think it's helpful to think about it in a way that even though there are good deals to be found (10€ shoes, 20€ bag, 35€ dress, etc) lolita fashion is still originally more of a luxury fashion hobby and even the prices of those deals might not be affordable for some people. Some people get around that by becoming really good at DIY (which is well within the spirit of the fashion, good DIY is more impressive than brand). I live below minimum wage for my country, bought and made most of my wardrobe over a span of 11 years, I cannot afford to buy anything at all right now (energy crisis) but I can still DIY with what I have and wear what I already own. I don't think lolita as a fashion is classist since you can make most of the items yourself (just not shoes) if you wanted to. But the start up cost for a new lolita who doesn't have much to spend and who has no sewing skills can seem like a big hurdle.
From an outsider perspective but also from a person who is in stigmatized communities; I think the constant stigma and misinformation of Lolita caused the entire Lolita community to become extremely defensive and if anyone is defensive, you know that being extremely defensive can absolutely lead to hateful behavior towards your own. It's like a a dog that bites the hand that feeds it purely out of instinct due to past experience.
I have what almost seems like a Jekyll and Hyde thing going on in my brain, where sometimes I don’t give a rats ass what anyone thinks about me and sometimes what others say really hits me hard and it’s almost random which side will be out ant any given time.
I've been following lolita fashion since highschool but its only now that im in my 30s that i have the resources to put into indulging in the fashion, so its actually really nice to see and hear a lolita in my age range. reminds me its never too late to experiment with fashion.
Haven't watched the video yet: but I have thought this for years. I'm too poor and not into the silhouette/skirt length of "acceptable" lolita so I've never identified as one even though I wear lolita styles (albeit offbrand). I've seen so much hate from lolitas that I'm too scared to even ask how to get better
I understand your concerns. I would suggest that you search Lor's videos about these issues and seek out one person in the community that you feel safe with and use that alliance to grow more confident. Do your coords bring you pleasure? As Lor has said, that is what really matters.
Lor even with the audio issues. This video is so amazing. We love you so much and you impact so many people I think even someone who’s not a lolita can take so much from this video. We appreciate you so much and you reach so many people you are a little light in this world that seems so dark, we support you and love you with everything ❤❤❤❤
Some years ago there was someone on every post complaining about seeing knees in coords and I think it was pretty obvious that they were insecure about their own knees or something. Anyways because they commented about it so much others started doing the same saying you can't show knees in coord pics that it's not lolita if you do. lol It was so stupid and people call them out about it and they finally owned up to it being about their own insecurity and stopped doing it. I think this is a sorta good example of how one person's insecurities can get out of hand and cause others to follow it even if it doesn't really make much sense. It was a silly thing to make a comment on in the first place but I know it hurt some people and it started a pretty shitty gatekeeping culture in the comm for awhile and it really didn't need to happen at all. So if you see something like this happen try to squash it right away and don't let others jump on that train and drag it on.
The problem is...there are so many types of different characters/types of people who would never normally be interact with each other without the same sense and interest in this fashion. You're meeting up with random people and not with friends who like you for your inner self. I'm in this fashion for about 12 years now and I've struggled to make real long lasting friendships in the comm since then and I really tried to have them because this fashion is my life and it was always fun to share this with someone you really like.
I found with my experience trying to get into Lolita there were so many kind people helping me out some people that weren't even in the Lolita community wanting to help me look for different Lolita online buying pages that you don't have to have a PayPal for and I've gotten so much love throughout this it makes my heart feel happy that there are so many people willing to help find me things in my price range😁😍
Okay so not a lolita related comment here but that league of legends mention cracked me up. I am a LoL player and yes, its super toxic. Most of my friends who play or have played are also very aware of how toxic and unpleasant a 'community' it is. Its definitely a running joke at least in my circles. Someone will be going off on one in the chat and we'll be like "aah yes, another furious 13 year old screaming at their computer." Although its just as likely a 30 year old. And it even gets brought out of ordinarily nice people during games. Although that doesn't seem to be the same for the LoL cosplay community so much, at least from my experience from when I was a more active cosplayer. It's funny how all these topics kinda cross over. x
I used to stalk them because I was paranoid about how others perceived me, because of previous situations where people lied to my face, acting like friends only to do wrong by me in the end. Thankfully, I didn't see anything too bad on the forums, but the paranoia was too much that I ended up dipping out of the fashion for a few years. I'm just now getting back into it and my local fashion comm only has two other Lolita's(one more committed, the other who dabbles), so I don't feel like I need to worry anymore. If I only post flatlays online, I think I'll be a-ok.
Being someone of the Gen X persuasion, I have always been afraid to get involved with Lolita Fashion due to the amount of ageism I felt associated with it. Watching your videos has always made me feel, if even just tangentially included. I also appreciate how you have added your own unique individuality to the style, it's awesome. I do have a few Lolita pieces but I tend to wear them in my own way. Completely unrelated, I love Lady Sloth & Spooky Sparkle party which I discovered watching your videos. 💖
thank you so so so so much for making this video Lor. Ive been a fan of you for a while and so proud of your growth. everyone could benefit more from just disconnecting more often and i too, am in a constant healing struggle. thank you for being a constant light who wants better. your content keeps me going!
Thank you for your video. I always had an admiration for lolita fashion. I have been an accomplished seamstress and historical costumer since high school. I discovered lolita fashion in my 20s and attempted to join the community on Lj. I felt so awkward and unaccepted because I was not skinny or wearing brand. I designed and sewed my own gowns heavily inspired by BYSSB, MM and AP. I was really shunned at the local meet ups because I was a few years older than the other participants but then I was also wearing my original works. Everyone was very judgmental and chasing the newest coords being dropped. It was practically a sin to wear Taobo dresses. I feel a little vindicated when I had the opportunity to meet Hiroko Honda at ACEN and she was extremely pleasant and received my original dress pleasantly although she spent 10 minutes playing with my BJD who was wearing a miniature version of my dress. I no longer try to go to events and get brand name dresses and just make what I want and wear what I want.
Thank you for this video Lor. I recently started frequenting a certain anonymous lolita forum out of curiosity because I wanted to see what the big deal was. Let me tell you, I was SHOCKED to see that side of the lolita community. These people have absolutely zero tolerance for anyone who doesn't fit their bigoted, narrow-minded image of what a lolita "should" look like, and it's honestly sad. And don't even get me started on the rampant fatshaming, transphobia, racism, and ableism. These are people who use "autistic" as an insult, and think that telling someone to kill themselves is a perfectly normal and acceptable response to someone who disagrees with them. Truly sickening.
Great info and super supportive - all those audio issues you went through didn't stop this from being a good video. I'm definitely guilty of a few of these things(queuing up too many videos lol), but we can all be better if we try.
I listen to media all the time because I hate to hear my own thoughts. As soon as I turn off the sound my brain jumps in with, "Everyone you love is going to die and they'll probably die before you... You're going to be alone... All ALONE and you'll be sick and unloved. Just that gross old woman that no one wants to acknowledge because you scare them." ... Yeah I think I'll take the media overload haha
Don't even get me started on this topic. I went through drama and bullying in my local community and they made sure to post everywhere egl related including 4chan. It went really far, they never apologized, and still won't admit what really happened despite the fact the girl causing it all was outed for latee mistreating others too. I'm still a lolita but without a local social group of them ever since. It still angers me when I think about what they did and that I was the one run off because of their lies. I never actually did anything wrong. It really highlighted who the mean girls were in my city as they admitted they did the 4chan, etc. I lost respect for those who kept quiet to stay on their good side. The Atlanta group has had plenty of years to fix this but they rather bury the whole thing instead of speaking to me. Most of the current members weren't even around back then but rather just continue the past divide based on only glimpses of old rumor vs speak to me about what happened. Smh.
I'm not involved in the lolita community but this was such a good video about the toxicity of online spaces that genuinely opened my eyes to a lot of things. It also in general opened up a conversation for these type of things. Thank you, sincerely.
as a 20 yr old that has been loving lolita fashion since highschool I just can't understand why would other lolitas be so mean, if you got to meet the community and the fashion then we must all have something in common, we needed a space for ourselves, i can "understand" locals and normies bc's yeah everything that is not into the standard or is alt is automatically bullied (either bc's they're afraid of being judged so they judge others, they lack personality and creativity so they don't understand differences, or either not conscious at all of who they are and they just live their everyday life as a "part of everyone else" and they have a negative automatic non critical personal thinking reaction to something it's strange to them cause it's not the "expected" or how they got tought to live and express themselves (if they ever got the oportunity to cause yk to be outstanding and speak out was never an option for them) ), I have a lot more to learn, I'm from South America so I don't really have too many sources nor the money to access lolita fashion rn and the peak of japanese fashion was around 2008-2010 here and I was just a kid, the communities are super small or already gone; but I feel that lolita represents freedom, innocence in the best way possible it is the representation of our deepest feelings, the clothes speak all the things we can't explain, show that side that would be possible to see only if we got to take out our hearts and expose them, to me it means that this world is beautiful because it's ours, the nature is a canvas for us to paint more, turn it into a castle, a garden, a little home, whatever we want, to be genuine and sensitive is a sign of strength and beauty, if you identify as a lolita how could you be so mean to someone that is just trying to open their hearts and be as true and close to themselves as possible if that's exactly what you're trying to do too?. Beauty doesn't only rely on the appearance, what's the point of wearing the puffiest and prettiest of the dresses if on the inside you're not going to shine and love like it? Is it a way to compensate it for them? I know people are going to stare and say whatever they want, I think they got made fun of their feelings to the point they got ashamed of them so they try to act as if they have none and start to hurt others, it should never be an excuse anyway, If you're a lolita (or not) and had bad experiences don't push yourself to forgive, don't be afraid to speak up and stand up, dolls are to stare and admire please don't hide yourself, the courage and spirit it takes to do what you love is amazing itself, you're unique, you're loved and safe
Hey, negativity biases suck. Just wanted to comment that I am not in the Lolita or Haunt community, but I just like watching your high quality, well thought-out, mature content. Hopefully, a lil comment that will help shore up the positivity. Thanks for showing the world what healthy handling of criticism, constructive or not, looks like. You sound like you're learning to love yourself better and I'm proud of you, dude.
This was a fantastic video. Thank you for opening up about your experiences, Lor, and I hope that you speaking out encourages other people in the hobby to be brave and to support each other. In my tween days I used to rag on cosplayers, and while it's not quite the same, I feel awful about it now. My partner loves Lolita (they introduced me to your channel) and while the hobby's not for me, I want to support them and every other aspiring Lolita. People can be so viscerally cruel and nasty, more people need to know how to protect themselves.
this was a really iroic video to come up as i was just kicked out of my local comm for being disabled and being loud about needing accessibility and information for meets. and other things (the last straw was when i requested adult/minor roles on the discord cus we allow ppl a yound as 16)
with the effort and energy it takes to cope with a disability, having to then fight for the access you require is something that should never happen. I am sorry to hear how you have been treated. I hope you find a different community who values you being involved
I've been in the fashion for over 10 years now. I've been the subject of both positive and negative commentary. I've had secrets made of me. I've been posted to threads for good and bad reasons (and usually the good gets bombarded with negative). At first, this really bothered me. But eventually, I just stopped caring. Was there grains of salt worth considering? Sure, every once in awhile. Some of the worst ones were by people who a lot of personal issues that they needed to work on. They were taking it out on others. Because myself and the other people they targeted owned their dream dresses we were targets. FWIW, I think everything on that list got a re-release, if not a MTO (or seven) later on. Sometimes people are bothered that people are not wearing the fashion the way that they'd like. Sorry, you can't fucking change that. Sometimes, you can help via kindness (letting that person come to trust you for advice, help finding items, things like little gifts via forming a friendship). It doesn't work all the time, but it has worked a few times for me. And it's wonderful seeing a person grow. I just kinda believe in being the example you'd like to see more of. Work on yourself. Build your dream wardrobe, up your coordination and makeup game, improve your photos, etc... if that's something you really care about. The thing is, that requires time, resources and dedication. It's so much easier to bitch and moan. This is different in my view from venting. You can vent your frustrations annoymously. It's another thing to post pictures, name and shame. After awhile, you've seen just about every variation of "ita". It gets boring. It takes a certian type of person to actively seek out those photos and post them elsewhere. You only have so many hours in a day, and so much time to live. You're going to spend it being upset that some person on the internet is wearing a wrinkled dress without a petti and didn't coord it right? Okay, you do you I guess. :/ The people worth talking about are often nasty and toxic people who make a spectacle of themselves and the fashion. I've encountered a lot and they tend to see themselves out without anyone else lifting a finger.
Wow Lor, this was a great listen. Thank you for your openness, your vulnerability, and your strength in sharing this reflection with us. I hope more people reflect. I enjoyed the cinematic motifs on the different segments to emphasize your points.
LECTURE LOR!!! I really loved this style of video, every shot and coord pairing were v creative and cool! I'm sure it was a lot of work but im excited to see what else you have planned!! Also tysm for sharing info on the issues with internet and attention. Not a topic I see being spoken on so plainly and honestly, and one that should be discussed WAY more
I am in a profession that society holds to a 'higher' standard- behaviors that might be ok for most people to do, but not me - not cussing, for example. I have tried to follow the practice of not putting anything in writing on social media that I would not be comfortable with anyone or everyone seeing it, not even anonymously. I think this approach could help anyone be less likely to harm someone else or regret their actions later.
The whole problem with trolls is that it all stems from jealousy, and every accusation is a confession. It's really just people venting about how shit their lives are by focusing their negativity at someone who has what they can't or don't have. It's sad and I want to give them a hug.
Not always jealousy, but definitely insecurity or some other type of negative mindset. I don't think happy people go over to those sites to bully people.
I expected this to be more about IRL things than online things tbh. Because for the people i have met the majority was in fact really nice online, but iRL i found them to be rather difficult. I totally agree with you though on all of those points! I find it personally very sad, that all the IRL groups i attended had a lot of ...difficulties and drama going on. I know that part of not fitting in, not even with the "outsiders like me" is due to me being autistic (?). However, still im so sad that despite my effords i never found a lolita or a cosplay group i felt comfortable in and made friends. What i found to be rather difficult was mostly how no matter which group i joined (also includes cosplay groups) somehow i felt like there were cliques from the get go. Like people who were a close VIP circle and if you tried to join all they ever did was gossip about others. I dont like nor participate in that. So it always turned me off. They would trash talk about other lolitas or cosplayers at conventions, or even new members including me. Somehow no matter which group i joined, there was A LOT of trashtalk. Talking about body sizes and shapes, which in general i think should NEVER be ok; and in addition shaming people for buying cosplay, or shaming people for making cosplay and not making it perfect. Shaming lolitas for not wearing xyz, or altering their dresses; or not matching their outfits. I personally struggle both with tights and blouses, and for a lot of my first lolita outfits i had to improvise. Im also not great at taking selfies, or looking cute in pictures at all. In addition to not knowing how to navigate such conversations of judgement, i mostly didnt know how to navigate the high energy attitude a lot of members of these communities seem to have. This does not really fit into "being mean" category, but it made a lot of things harder. When i was out and about with a group of lolitas or cosplayers they were very loud and obnoxious, and i was second hand embarassed. I didnt like that "civilists" perceived us as this gang of "weirdos" that talked way too loud, listened to weird music on their speakers, and made weird even inappropriate jokes at all times. I met with people my own age, but it felt like they were teenagers and we werent "On the same page". I am not giving up though. I have hope to meet a nice calm group of lolitas, that enjoy the same chill things i do and that i can befriend. It just feels like the issue is not purely online based.
Lor, I’m so happy you made this video, I joined a lolita comm about a year ago, but I got a bunch of mean comments about myself and my coord, even when I asked for no concrit and I followed the guidelines as best as I could. Was it perfect? Not really. It was a taobao dress I purchased that I should have styled better (not to say taobao dresses are bad, some of their prints are doing better than AP atm) I felt like I had no place in the community and left the larger aspect of it. I have small local comm that I feel welcomed in. A part of me feels like I can’t really interact with the online community because of some really bad stuff. Bullying will never go away, but by acknowledging these terrible experiences and learning from that, we could grow from it. Me being neurodivergent and struggling with a mild anxiety disorder, I have always been scared of posting my opinion online due to the fact I might get bombarded with hate. I’ve dealt with criticism as an artist, but people can be mean. To be more positive, I’m planning on trying to join the larger aspect of the community once again, as a comeback. I really want to interact with other Lolita’s even though I have gone through so pretty bad stuff. Like you said, negativity bias is bad, and I’ll try to focus on more positive things within the community. Thanks lor! ❤
I'm with you on just sticking to the friendly local comms. The more I interact with the supportive members in my own comm, the more Im reminded of how the internet is just a weird meta subspace and its the wholesome ppl we know in-person that will impact us far more.
I really dont get the hate forums and online bullying. Sure, I may think to myself that something about a creator is not within my taste, or maybe a creator triggers me, but then Id rather remove them from my online experience and not get triggered for the sake of my own peace of mind
ive had epic anxiety about going to meetups for years and still do to this day. i havent been to a lolita meetup since the big event, hope ill be able one day. thx for making this video tho.
loved the video! from the cosplay side, very similar but ya, kinda different as i think there is a lot of "helping" related to construction of materials. lolita is a very consumer focused subculture. interesting to see tho for sure!
I was scared out of the entire thing back in the LJ days. I just enjoy from the sidelines now lmao ETA: same with the bjd community. They're terrifying. Got rid of my dolls and moved on 💀
Oh, man. The BJD community. There's this wonderful toy review blog more aimed at older collectors and parents. She was a big doll collector but unfamiliar with BJDs. She unwittingly purchased a fake BJD, and the way some people acted... you'd think she'd committed a hate crime. Ended up deleting the video and turning her comments off. I saw some meanness in the Blythe community, but not to that extent.
@@LittleMissLounge the bjd community is scary lol! So many rules, and while I agree you shouldnt buy a "fake", it's not like it's a common knowledge thing to general doll/toy collectors. And God forbid you had abs plastic and not resin or whatever the nice ones are made of. Might as well call it a barbie in their eyes 🤣 Edited to fix typos lol
thank you for this video, I've always wanted to make a social media presence (I want to be a streamer and sell art and stuff) but I've been so on the fence because I'm very very emotional (neurodivergent among other mental health issues) and so I'm very sensitive. Hearing your perspective on dealing with negativity helps give me confidence to put myself out there because Lolita fashion/content creation does make you vulnerable - but being able to make a living out of what I love would really be a dream of mine and I don't want to give it up and there are things I can work myself through to keep going. Thank you Lor for being lovely and awesome! :)
I have adhd I don't think I need to like. Stop passively enjoying content. I mean it's important to be aware, but understimulation will either have me sleeping all day or panicking. And I know that's a problem! But it's kind of a chronic problem there is no cure for? To be fair, puzzle games can help but I often have to multitask. Maybe electronic music is good for that also lol
A lot of good points in this video. Lot of people join and leave this community everyday, we all just like lolita fashion and need to remember the fundamentals of how to behave as a person..
