Why Does the Kelvin Timeline Look So Different? 

So I feel the need to clarify. At 49 seconds in I state that I'm not looking at real world licence agreements but I'm well aware of the real world financial motivations. This video focuses on in-universe reasons for the differing appearance that are brought up by Memory Beta content. Thank you for reading this before commenting.

Romulan tech is green. Borg tech is green. So they're compatible. Federation tech is blue. Obviously incompatible.

The Kelvin universe is a prime example of why the Temporal Prime Directive, and the Prime Directive in general is absolutely necessary.

"My advice on making sense of temporal paradoxes is simple: don't even try."- Captain Janeway

Personally I just assume the Kelvin Timeline was ALWAYS an alternate universe even before the Narada's incursion. Similar to how the Prime Timeline's Defiant was sent back to the Enterprise-era Mirror Universe. That's an easier handwave to explain the continuity disparities than saying the Narada Incursion created an alternate reality, and fits more in line with previous Trek's time travel rules.

The thing I hated was that he was back in time so he had a chance to save his planet from exploding again. But nope decided to be stupid af and try and get revenge instead.

Nero was fiddling around while Romulus burned Wait....

Levels of understanding of time travel. Level 1 - Basic: time splits. Level 2 - Advanced: time bends. Level 3 - Proper: wibbly wobbly, timey wimey...

I would freaking LOVE to see what later Kelvin-timeline ships (i.e. Galaxy- and Nebula-class) would look like and what their capabilities would be.

"A wall of fiery explode." I'm gonna have to use that one at some point.

I went in to the 2009 knowing they'd be facing Romulans, they had put that out there before the movies release. My very first thought upon seeing the Narada was "that's not Romulans. That's Borg." And I was kind of right....

I just thought of something. Q revealed himself to Picard because they'd come so far from home without being ready for things like the Borg. But... now they've seen the Borg, plus more. The Kelvin Timeline could possibly never come into contact with the Q Continuum. There's no need this time around.

what about the time police from the 30th century introduced by voyager. they should have stopped Nero

So, in 1981, at the end of the day during one of my elementary grade school days, for some reason out in the parking lot, there was a girl who had a model kit open and was looking through it. It was an AMT or Revell model kit of the the U.S.S. Enterprise. She let me look at it in detail, and the thing that jumped out at me were the pictures on the inside and outside on the box. I remember seeing the lines on the pylons being curved. It had big round Bussard collectors, and the navigation dish was slightly off-set from the hull. And the colors were bright white and blue. I was amazed by this 'different' version of the Enterprise. I'd never seen it before. Our whole family was very into Star Trek at the time, so I came home looking for one of my brothers TOS Enterprise models. Sure enough it was very different from what that girl had. I was totally confused and brooded over what I had saw constantly. I never could find the girl to ask her what that model was despite looking for her all the time after school. A year or so later, my dad took me and my brothers to see Wrath of Khan (I guess he felt I was too young to take to TMP), and I had learned there was a 'movie' Enterprise. I had hoped that this would be the big reveal that would show me that this girl had the Enterprise from the movies. When I saw the newer Enterprise refit, I was disappointed and still bewildered. It was not the same ship. Fast forward to Star Trek 2009... the SECOND I laid eyes on this 'Kelvin' Enterprise, I knew that was it. In fact, if you pause this video at 8:55, this is exactly the picture on the box cover of the model the girl had. It was like she had some sort of model sent to her from the future. Or... was this some MAJOR Mandela Effect? Crazy stuff.

Honestly, I want to see a TNG show but in the Kelvin timeline. The Kelvin Constitution class is as big as a sovereign class, so imagine the size of the galaxy and sovereign classes in the Kelvin Timeline.

Copyright: *Exists, necessitating design changes* Ancient Aliens meme guy: “I’m not saying it’s the Borg, but it’s the Borg.”

You mentioned something here that I fully appreciate about Star Trek Beyond. Even though the villain is kind of weak, the Enterprise and her crew really feel like they're explorers again.

I dont understand the "you tried to help me but failed, now i want revenge" trope...

"That's not radiation, that's a firey wall of explode." nice one rick.

I love the fact that in the Kelvinverse beta continuity, it is canon that there is a Green Lantern Corps

Why does the Kelvin timeline look so different? Lens flares. Lots and lots of lens flares.

I feel like without Vulcan's influence in starfleet, the Federation ships should be way more powerful and ready for war unlike that only one designed by Kahn

The problem I have with this whole alternate timeline thing is that Star Trek has already established that changes in the past effect the current timeline. When the Enterprise-C accidentally traveled to the future the timeline was immediately changed, leaving the Enterprise-D a warship. Kirk and Spock had to stop McCoy from saving a woman in the past because the federation no longer existed. Had the Enterprise-E not been caught in the wake of a temporal vortex, they would have been erased from history by the Borg. Yet Nero going back in time creates this entire new timeline while the prime timeline is fine and unaffected.

So prime Kirk started his command when he was 13 younger than kelvin Kirk??? That's insane, he must have been in high school! Classic prime Kirk, what a guy!

My friends and I, huge Trek neeeeerds all, have come to the conclusion that the Kelvin timeline is the result of divergence from the main timeline much further back than the Kelvin incident: Star Trek: First Contact. Contact with the Enterprise-E, not to mention probable Borg remains in orbit, would have given Earth, if not a moderate technological leg up, a significant motivation to advance at a faster pace, not to mention a slightly more militaristic outlook shown in Enterprise. Yes, we consider Enterprise to be part of this new divergence. Why? The first episode of Enterprise shows the Zephram Cochram of First Contact giving a speech. Admiral Archer is referenced in the first JJVerse Star Trek. The NX Enterprise is shown on the desk of Admiral Robocop in the line of Enterprises. So the insertion of the Narada, while significant, was not the break point. The Kelvin is already much different, and far more advanced, than anything of comparable technology in the main timeline due the far earlier break point of First Contact.

Personally, I go by Simon Pegg's explanation of the Kelvin Timeline he gave when talking about 'ST:Beyond' since it explains things such as radically changed ages/birthdates and why things that are Pre-Kelvin are different: "Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe. I don’t believe for one second that Gene Roddenberry wouldn’t have loved the idea of an alternate reality (Mirror, Mirror anyone?). This means, and this is absolutely key, the Kelvin universe can evolve and change in ways that don’t necessarily have to follow the Prime Universe at any point in history, before or after the events of Star Trek ‘09." Basically, the Kelvin Timeline is more akin to the Mirror Universe except that it was originally only slightly different from the Prime Universe (maybe Archer made a right turn when exploring in the Kelvin Timeline when in the Prime he made a left turn or something). The IDW Comics kind of take this stance as well since Prime Spock visits the Kelvin K-7 and he notes that it's broadly the same but there are some very minor differences to the Prime K-7 Station which apparently was constructed Pre-Kelvin incident.

Thanks for explaining why those 'newer' films were so different from the original series, movies and TNG/DS9/Voy and why everything's changed. I just hoped it didn't mean the 'prime timeline' ceased to exist.

I like to think the borg wreckage found in the north pole during Enterprise probably is the true divergent point in the timelines. They probably only found tid bits up there but it would of been enough to steer every aspect of everything subtly and set the stage for the Kelvin encounter which took the subtle steering and did a hard right.

I've always understood that the USS Kelvin was a huge deep-space exploration ship and it basically got eradicated so starfleet would probably be a little more cautious and militaristic and the ships would be even bigger than the Kelvin and way more powerful.

Were gona need a bigger boat, now that is priceless

"We're gonna need a bigger boat" lol, nicely done

Wow I had no idea that that the timeline was altered in such a way. And makes complete sense thank you for the Star Trek education.

Back around closer to 2009 I recall reading something somewhere that one of the reasons they decide to build bigger ships (and indeed why the Kelvin is bigger too) is something to do with an earlier point of divergence where Starfleet found a shell of a crashed 1st federation ship. *that might even be where the multiple warp core idea came from too* Though I don't have a huge issue with the timeline chicanery due to how it MUST have already have been changing over time anyway - the past that Wesley Crusher learned in school isn't the same one Kirk learned as a child and the past as taught to a child in the early 25th Century would be completely different too. Events from the far future also changed the past too - for example originally the XINDI never attacked earth that is a change in the time line already - so that can also explain the change in technology as Starfleet (of the NX era) had access to some ridiculously advanced tech centuries before they should have - and indeed later Voyager changed it's own timeline too with Admiral Janeway's actions. This sort of retrospective timeline change might even account for the situation being so different with Discovery too - it could be a daughter timeline of the NX-era changes that were in turn not effected by Nero on this run through. An analogy is the fantasy/religious idea of an unseen hand with a book of everything that they can scrub things out of and re-write parts (or like the Greek idea of the fates) once one things is changed everything related to that rearranges to compensate. The idea of if this happens backwards in time or not is a complex one. But just think about the Borg and how they were introduced Q changed the entire fate of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant with his actions of introducing them to Picard. In a way he did them a favor otherwise they'd have been trying to fight the dominion war with the kind of ships that got smashed flat at the Battle of Wolf 359. But then The Sisko would never have gone to Bajor then either and so the wormhole would remain closed.

An Iconic quote "Thats a big wall of fiery explode"

It's late 24th century romulan borg technology from the prime timeline..

If memory serves me, James T. Kirk is the 2nd son of George and Wynonna Kirk. Samuel "Only I Called him Sam" Kirk was the firstborn son. Considering that Wynonna was already pregnant with her first child when the Romulans were thrown back in time and forever changed the timeline, the guy in the "Kelvin timeline" is not really James but Samuel.

I always wanted an in universe explanation for the more “high tech” look to the Star Trek ships.

Actually, I'd argue that the timelines were altered before the Kelvin's destruction. Kelvin herself, her design, interior and exterior, uniforms, etc,. are all radically different fro that of the Prime timeline. Whatever happened to reset continuity happened before the Kelvin went ka-boom. The changes between the Kelvinverse and the Primeverse are too serious to have taken place in only 13 years. No, something else happened. Personally, I tend to like the idea that the events of First Contact did the trick. After all, they arguably resulted in the NX-01, a ship we had never, ever heard of before. They also introduced Earth to Borg technology, even on a small scale, long before the Kelvin was a dream in its designers' minds. There's more, but that's the basic idea.

Playing mass effect theme while talking Star Trek; well done

My head cannon is that when the Romulan mining vessel changed the timeline, it not only changed the future of that universe, but the past. Because of the large amounts of time travel in Star Trek, with some of the most notable changes being Sisko and the Bell Riots and Janeway kickstarting the Silicon Age. When the timeline was changed, if/how these events occurred changes as well, and so the whole timeline going back to the 1900s was altered.

Due to the licensing restrictions imposed on the Bad Robot (i.e. Kelvinverse) films, the events shown in those films can only be explained canonically as taking place in a completely different universe even before the Kelvin incident. The Bad Robot films cannot represent a divergent timeline from the one in which the TV series we know and love occurred since they cannot use any of the ships, uniforms, or other visual styles that appeared in those shows. That includes Enterprise, which predates the Kelvin incident, and every ship or costume from the past that were shown on screen, such as the Daedalus class ship in Sisko’s office on DS9. If a film depicting the Enterprise era was made under the Bad Robot license, it could not look anything like the time period as depicted in Star Trek Enterprise.

I've argued for a very long time the "Kelvin" timeline split happened in Star Trek: First Contact and that Enterprise takes place there. Enterprise clearly takes place in an alternate timeline because events occur in different order or completely retcon established Prime canon. This explains why the timeline is already different before the Kelvin Incident. We know it's different right of the bat in the 2009 film because we have James Kirk's mother already in labor on the Kelvin BEFORE the Narada appears when we know in the Prime timeline he was born on Earth in Iowa.

"When you break the sound barrier, you get a sonic boom. You broke the time barrier, Flash. Temporal Boom!" - Zoom, FP.

Visually the Narada did look more like a Borg vessel than a Romulan vessel. The Borg even came looking for the Narada in the comics.

a related question, did we see the begining of the borg race in "Star Trek - the motion picture" when captain decker joined with the vulcan girl who was turned into a robotic probe by "veger" (voyager) and someone said to kirk - "did we just see the start of a new race?" kirk replied "yes I believe we did" (or something simular)surely that would be an advanced race of half human and half machine - just like the borg

When the kelvin timeline was created it was distorted because of the chaotic nature of universe creation. Like throwing a rock in a pond there were ripples that affected the past of this newly created timeline. This new space-time had an altered history where technology developed at a different rate compared to where they should be at as seen in TOS. The same thing likely applies to ENT and DIS as well. When the temporal cold war started it created the ENT universe that diverged from prime timeline. Thanks to the efforts of archer and Daniels by the founding of the federation the timeline was mostly back on track and at least on the way to reconverging and running parallel prime. It's possible that DIS is actually a sequel to the altered ENT universe as opposed to being a prequel to prime TOS which would explain the discrepancies. Either way we know that things eventually have to look like they did in TNG because they show that time period in ENT as proof that the timeline would be restored or at least look identical to prime by then.

"That's a big wall of fiery explode!" This is in fact the technical term. It's no laughing matter. Big walls of fiery explode are real threats to interstellar civilization.

Q: Why Does the Kelvin Timeline Look So Different? A: Because it's a movie and they need to sell toys, ship models and other mechandise!

Awesome video! I love it when gaps fill in nicely like that.

Wow, thanks for making this video! this really helped clear things up when i originally first watched the movie, thanks!

I think the reason the ships are different in the kelvin timeline is because of star trek first contact and enterprise,

Thank you so much for explaining this! Makes so much sense.

All the more puzzling why the Enterprise was dispatched so easily by every bad guy it encountered from there on out.

I think I have a good explanation for how a star going Nova light years away could affect the Romulans: ABRAMS DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HOW SPACE WORKS.

This also explains how a Romulan ship so easily takes out most of a fleet of starships, just like the Borg did before it at the battle of Wolf 359

To imagine that this would lead to further evolution and developement, I wonder how the later iterations of the Enterprise would not only look, but also fare against the Romulan Warbirds, or the actual Borg...

I had a similar idea about the Narada causing Starfleet to rethink its design philosophy and organizational structure. But I didn’t think about adding borg tech into the mix. I like it. It explains a few more things. As for the design of the Kelvin I think it’s really not too far off to suggest that it could have been a test ship. Starfleet may have already been considering bigger/ different ships. Considering the fact that they had duranium alloys, forcefields, hull polarization, and inertial dampers I don’t think there was really any technological reason they couldn’t have built bigger. In the Prime timeline they could have simply decided that bigger ships weren’t necessary.

Roddenberry: *dies* Star Trek: *starts jumping sharks*

Thank you for this video. THIS really explains a lot!

DC's Flashpoint Paradox solved the issue for why travelling back in time could still alter events prior to when you arrive in the new timeline as such: Breaking the Sound Barrier creates a Sonic Boom, breaking the Time Barrier creates a Time Boom, which is a ripple effect that radiates across all of time that can shift every variable.

Fun fact: The Prime timeline actually isn't the continuity we'd followed up through 2009. Paramount and CBS are just allowing fans to believe that without correcting them. See, the scenes that happened in the future had to follow the same "25% different" mandate that was set for the entire 2009 franchise; therefore making characters like Spock, Data, and Picard *already* be different characters to the ones we followed in TOS and TNG. TOS/TAS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT: Unnamed timeline DISC/Countdown/opening scene of ST09: Prime timeline ST09/Into Darkness/Beyond: Kelvin timeline There are actually no continuity errors in calling Discovery a part of the Prime timeline, because _the Prime timeline isn't anywhere near as established as you think it is._

Ok now explain why captain kirk could not use any of the lantern rings in the green lantern ST crossover comic...

I will say that the reasoning for Marcus in Into Darkness makes A LOT more sense when you think about how there is no longer the Vulcan science academy or almost all Vulcans overall

Excellent video. I knew most of this stuff already from countdown but still learned a little bit new.

it is now officially cannon that temporal agents were aware of Nero's incursion.

I believe the Kelvin Timeline looks so different is not just from the destruction of the USS Kelvin but i believe that the Borg Incursion unto the past to prevent First Contact. This created two parallel timelines. 1. The Borg never went back, the timeline known as Prime-A continues as it is supposed to, this is the 'original' timeline, but not the one the Ent-E returned to. 2. Prime-B The second timeline where the Borg did invade and were destroyed by Enterprise's. This is the timeline that the Kelvin timeline again branched ,which gave rise to much larger vessels because the Federation knew of the Borg earlier. And much of this is influenced even further with the Narada's appearance. And Discovery comes from Prime-B where the Narada never appeared.

Really enjoyed this! Loved the comment “we are going to need a bigger boat”.

Amazing stuff. As a person who doesn't know much about the universe, this gave me cartoon special episode vibe

The Kelvin Timeline started way before the events in the 2009 movie. Example: Kirk was born in Iowa in the prime timeline. He was born in space in the Kelvin Timeline. This means the timeline was different before the incursion. In my opinion, the Star Trek Enterprise time war is what created this alternate timeline that Spock happened into. Also the Borg going back in time to stop first contact could have something to do with it.

Hey, that's me! But really great video friend! Very informative! LLAP

👏👏👏 Bravo sir, that is *exactly* the explanation I came up with back in 2009 when this Kelvin Timeline started. Despite knowing that JJ just has a hard on for bigger ships unnecessarily, in universe, the inability to miniaturize the technology they were duplicating just made perfect sense. It seems clear to me by the travel time and the different visual that Kelvin Timeline Starfleet ships are using some kind of Transwarp or even Slipstream, so them needing to make larger ships to accommodate these new fangled engines is logical. I can only imagine that they needed to develop new technology to make the tools and parts to build the technology to put into these new upgrades. And even without Countdown you can look at the Narada and say, "I wonder what that Romulan ship looked like before it got assimilated."

Thank you sir for clearing this up now I fully understand what had happened.. THANK YOU !

Actually, the bending of the timeline makes more sense than just chalking it up to design difference.

If the alternate Enterprise was launched 13 years later than in the normal timeline, how come Kirk and the others are still super-young?

Based on the shape of the ship, plus similar shapes seen in TOS era games like Starfleet Command, I'm going to guess that the U.S.S. Kelvin is a Destroyer (SFC in-game classification: DD). In Starfleet Command destroyers are small ships that have at most, one nacelle on the bottom; just like the U.S.S. Kelvin does. Some have two, but in a vertical arrangement instead of a horizontal one like most Starfleet ships have. In Trek, destroyers are well-known to be testbeds for experimental technology. The latest and greatest, as it were. This would explain why the Kelvin looks so big, because the warp plasma impellers (which you see as the glowy, spinny parts of the warp nacelles on the TOS Enterprise) are bigger - because a larger flow, needs a bigger impeller. Maybe in the prime timeline the larger impellers caused some kind of issue, which led to them being phased out in favor of the smaller ones you see in the series. But with the addition of Borg tech from the future, the larger nacelles are now more efficient than the smaller ones and continue in service.

I am so glad to have watched this video. It explains so much I had wondered about

"It's the job of the beta content to clean up after the main event, and only an idiot doesn't give the cleaning staff its due" amazingly well put.

I was under the impression that the Akira class was a warship specifically designed to help with interactions with the borg.

Hey Rick I’ve been watching your videos for the past week I’m loving the channel man

“That’s a big wall of fiery...explode!” That is my new favourite explanation for it now!

She let nero dock his narada into her stations vast interior...;)

I had no idea Star Trek Online still existed. Thought it had been a flop from the beginning and went the way of the Dodo.

If you're a StarTrek Fan, or a decent gamer and have an OK PC, you should absolutely try to play STO, they're filling so many plotholes, and add so many Stories, on sometimes 1-Episede-Characters/Enemies, that it's quite interesting. For example, if you remember those Parasites, that were in that Gory TNG Episode, when Riker and Picard shot someones head till it exploded, they id build on that episode's Story, adding quite a lot of content. The Best thing is: You don't really need to pay money for the Game, and even tough, the Game got an ingame Cash-Shop, you may earn that by farming.

🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very informatively explained and executed in every way and every detail provided indeed👌...

The Kelvin timeline occurred when Hollywood discovered this great universe created by a man named Gene, but when they wentt to write stories about it , sadly Gene had passed away, and the people in Hollywood didn't actually posses any of their own creativity, being primary a parasitical species. And so , the timeline sucked...

Viacom split and it lead to license issues. That's why all new Trek looks so different.

Conny design staff looks and new data, then their blueprints for the Conny... pauses and then says, "looks like we're going to need a bigger boat." Best line I've heard tonight! Thanks so much. NOM

Very good video, feel i learned something new, gj

Lawyers. It looks different because of lawyers.

Prime (TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY) Mirror Universe (8 year Earth/Romulan War instead of 4) Enterprise (Post-First Contact) ENT Mirror Universe (welcome Vulcans with a shotgun instead of a handshake) Kelvin (Nerada alters ENT timeline) Discovery (sure as hell ain't Prime, so stop telling us it is CBS)

This is nice. Thank you also for adequately explaining why Ensign Chekov isn't 13.

Your channel is brilliant. I've been binge watching and I'm not even really a trekkie.

Wait! The events until the Kelvin was destroyed were the same in both timelines. Then there had to be Borg on the earth? But how die they came there? That never happend in the Kelvin timeline?

Where is Q when you need him to snap his fingers in order to wipe out the Kelvin timeline?

Great overview, and I think you are right on when it comes to what would have changed due to the Nerada's attack. I do have one point to add though: already, the Kelvin was quite different from the starships of the prime timeline. I don't necessarily think that's an issue, but here's why I bring it up- let's assume for a moment the Kelvin is a prototype, or at least part of a limited ship production run. The main thing I see as a massive difference between Starfleet ships is the size. Forget the Constitution, the Kelvin was massive- seriously, take a look at the shuttles evacuating out. I've seen stadiums with less room in them. We know Starfleet considers itself peaceful, but can also ramp production and tech up quickly in the event of conflict- the new designs built to fight Borg in the prime timeline are a good example of such. In this case though, the Kelvin took on the Narada and basically had its ass handed to it within mere seconds. Already this ship seems to have more weapons than a typical Starfleet ship, a very large size including numerous support craft, etc; what would you do if your most powerful/largest/best starship went up against a single opponent, and barely managed to scratch it? Build bigger/badder ships, and sure, bring in any pilfered/scanned technologies as well. In the Prime universe of this era, Starfleet could do with 200-400 person heavy cruisers of a couple hundred meters in length because, very simply, they did not need anything different. A Constitution class ship in that timeline is able to go toe to toe with a Klingon D7, the most powerful ship in the Klingon fleet at the time. There would be zero reason for Starfleet to build larger; there's no escalation, there's nothing pushing them to need to be better armed and powered. But once you watch a very powerful Starfleet ship be decimated almost immediately in combat, a lot of Starfleet admirals would be pushing hard to get more capable and powerful vessels.

I would just like to add that the second Star trek movie would have been a great time to reveal that Peter Weller's character was actually still Robocop and that both of these franchises existed in one shared universe.

Everyone can hate the Kelvin Timeline all they want but Star Trek 2009 introduced lots of people (including myself) to the wonderful world of Star Trek. It may not be the greatest but it would always be in my heart as the thing that showed me the beautiful universe that is Star Trek

But you also forgot about the Voyager and time ship were sucked into the past 20th century Earth. Where a Steve job like character had reverse Technology of the 29 century time ship. In Voyager, s03 e08&e09, Episode Future End or 1&2. Which had made the past have future Technology in the 20th century. And angain in first contact a Borg ship, and a few members of the Enterprise of the late 24th century was left in the late 21st century. Which was mentioned in the Enterprise tv series episode s02 e23 Regeneration. That's why the ships in the OST is more advanced now.

Great Scott Marty! Just changing 1 small detail could have unimaginable consequences!

good vid , continu the good work !