Why does the narcissist idealize and devalue you? - Living as a Pathological Narcissist 

Thank you for being open to learning! And for the comment! Glad when I get comments like this lol

Lmaoooo and thank you! I try my best haha. And 100% agree. Anyone working on themselves or in treatment can be in a healthy relationship if that’s truly what they want. You and your partner are a great example of that!

If there is change and behavioral modification in therapy.

@@zerokhan3685 Yes. He talks like someone who has no idea how he actually feels emotionally about anything. Everything he says is total opposite of what it seems he’s feeling. I’m pretty good at reading people so I can tell that his feelings and mind are not in sync at all. I had known him for 2 years and never once heard him actually describe his own emotions, ever. In fact, if I tried to say anything that required a vulnerable response, he could never give it. Him saying he wanted to sleep with me more than anyone else is literally the closest he’s ever got to expressing a single emotional thought. It always felt like he viewed me as this threat who was trying to force him into emotional reactions. I always felt like I made him feel uncomfortable feelings and since he couldn’t properly access those feelings or deal with them, they’d just come out as something negative towards me.

@@zerokhan3685 Now that I think about it, he did express feelings of emptiness or unhappiness but that’s about it. His moods change very rapidly and suddenly.

wow, they all are text book, the more we compare stories. my ex always had mood swings, our relationship was the most roller coaster i'd ever had, very dramatic fights, silent treatments, intermixed with fun times and amazing sex. the narcs are good at veiling "compliments" or expressions of love/like/admiration to us in weird ways that sound like a compliment or an expression of caring, when in fact kind of also put themselves or us down. it's amazing how they can weasel out of all direct questions, then say something stupid to deflect from it, and storm off in a silent treatment. now that i've learned more, i hope i recognize red flags faster. like jacob, i hope to find the "perfect person" but also know there are probably LOTS of good people that might work, and i just need to let it develop slowly and naturally, and avoid the love-bombers!

Yes, but he knows that "gorgeous and successful" is just a superfluous superficial crust covering the toxic sludge.

Thank you! Honestly it's one of the most helpful parts of me doing this, forcing myself in front of everyone to confront the things that come to mind

that's not how it feels tho

someone leaving, although there's nothing wrong with that objectively, still feels like abandonment esp to people with fears of abandonment

I understand that. However that's also common fear in anxious attachment and BPD. All breakups are hard. Unresolved and unhealed childhood and adult traumas are carried from relationship to relationship and bleed in to relationships. People fall out of love and or there are misalignments in relationships. Personal development: Attached by Amir Levine Getting The Love You Want by Harville Hendrix - Imago Wired For Love by Dr Stan Tatkin The Hoffman Process by John and Julie Gottman The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer I Hear You by Micheal Sorenson What The Heck Is Self Love Anyways? Jonathon Aslay No Violent Communication by Marshall B Rosenberg PhD

Thanks so much! Personality disorders or not, exploring the ways different minds work is fascinating to me haha

I'm glad! Thanks for the comment!

I’ve read some of her books actually! She’s really great and I love how she doesn’t talk about people with PD’s as monsters. Like her verbiage saying “personality adaptations” instead of disorder I think is really great. She has a super inspiring story too Shame she died last year. She was really one of the best. Thanks for the recommendation though!

@@Thenamelessnarcissist she’s a very non judgemental but truthful therapist.She grew up with NPD and Psycopathy in her own family and has friends who are NPD.She writes prolifically on Quora and some of her clients (self aware) also write up their therapy with her.She’s very much alive?

@@sunnybein1 OH SHIT SHE IS LMAO THERE WAS ANOTHER DOCTOR BY THE SAME NAME WHO DIED AND I THOUGHT IT WAS HER 😂 thanks for telling me!

@@Thenamelessnarcissist no problem.Check her out she’s amazing.

@@Thenamelessnarcissist Ps.great video and insight…this one in particular helps partners to understand the behaviour isn’t intended to harm.

Thanks for the comment!

I have actually! and it's a perfect term to describe what most cluster B's consider "love"

Just another term for infatuation.

Gp. Limerence is the first thing I suspected when I knew something wasn't right. I think your on to something here. Infatuation, which never lasts. Too much too soon.

Haha it's an understandable one to have! It's a widely held one for sure so I can't blame anyone for thinking that. Looks like my channel is doing it's job! lmao I have to think about it a little, but I'm sure that's a factor. Usually it's along the lines of "this person will understand and accept me, and I can finally show someone the real me" (at least at the conscious level) It's a little different when I'm in a more grandiose state though, but not by much haha Thank you! I gotta tell my barber lmaooo and thanks for the comment! Have a good day!

Narcissists require other people's input before they can know what to think of themselves. Pathologically narcissistic people cannot create, sustain or regulate their own self-worth or self-image. The inability to do this is devastating to the human personality structure and often results in suicidal behavior. To combat the inevitable crash, narcissists survive using a tactic called mirroring. We see this in very, very young children. Small children cannot create or maintain their own self-worth or self-image either. They require caretakers to do this for them through the process of mirroring. This is where the caretaker reflects their feelings and their concept of the child back to them like a mirror. If the caretaker consistently reflects positive feelings and a positive image of the child, the child will create a good self-image and have a healthy sense of self-worth. If the caretaker consistently reflects negative feelings and a negative image or if the reflection is inconsistent, the child's self-image and self-worth will suffer greatly. (Keep in mind that this doesn't necessarily reflect reality or refer to anything intentional; for example, if mom and dad work all the time, children may get the impression they are not important and this creates a problem with self-worth and self-image even though it is not necessarily reality and certainly isn't intentional. This is the same basic way that pathologically narcissistic people operate. They require the input of others in order to function, the same way that small children require it. Because they already have such pervasive issues with their self-worth and self-image, they cannot tolerate negative reflections from others - whether they are real or not. In the idealization or "honeymoon" stage of a relationship, the narcissist believes the other person is perfect. This is largely because the other person believes they are perfect. Narcissistic people do not forgive, condone or accept mistakes - from anybody, including themselves. To the narcissist's skewed perception, if someone is not perfect, they have no value. This is why they always have a reason or a justification or an excuse or a scapegoat. It's not a real mistake, it's not a real failure. And if it is, it isn't their fault. As a way to combat their damaged self-image and nonexistent self-worth, the narcissist has created an optimum - if one-dimensional - version of themselves to present to the world that insists on judging them so harshly. It's all good qualities and none of the bad. They use this flexible false self to mirror back to other people what they seem to want. This is how they have learned to survive: through mimicry and mirroring. They have no true interest in other people as people and are simply trying to get their needs met the only way they know. As they mirror the other person, the other person reflects back to them extremely positive regard that helps create and sustain self-worth. "This awesome person thinks I'm awesome!" That would make anybody feel good. One of the first red flags we often see in pathologically narcissistic people is their tendency to overreact and this does not only refer to negative situations. The idealization of you and the relationship is an overreaction behavior. idealization is defined as regarding or representing something as perfect or as better than it is in reality. Idealization happens in part because many narcissistic people form attachments very quickly their emotions are unstable and out of control and their need for other people is paramount. They legitimately depend on the input of others for survival. Taking time to get to know people or seeing them as they truly are is not really an option. Other people are very important to narcissists for this reason their value in this area is extremely high. Once again, pathologically narcissistic people cannot experience themselves except through the reactions and the reflections of others. They have no true self concept and no ability to create or sustain self-worth so they use other people as kind of a psychic mirror to be able to assess who and what they themselves are. This is something they are required to do in order to survive. Because of abilities that they do not have it's not optional and there's no other way to do it. Most Non-psychopathic narcissists who often believe they do genuinely care about other people. They don't understand how emotions or relationship functions for other people and they mistakenly believe that their feelings change because of the other person instead of understanding that the trigger for this is actually within them and it has nothing to do with anything the other person is doing or not doing. With narcissists during the idealization phase the narcissist sees other people as perfect because other people see them as perfect. It's very possible the feelings they are describing are sincere or at least as sincere as it's possible for them to be because they're totally in love with the reflection of themselves that this person is showing them. Of course they want to be around this person all the time and soak up as much of that as they can but the emotion they're displaying sincere though it may be in many situations is not for the other person it's for themselves. When you look at a mirror you don't see the mirror you see yourself the mirror is simply the tool through which you are viewing and experiencing yourself. During the idealization phase of the relationship they want to look at that as much as possible. They want to be around somebody that feels that way about them this need to see themselves as perfect is what actually causes the devaluation stage of the relationship. The narcissist is a paranoid and suspicious person in general, and especially in relationships of any kind. Others have enormous power over them in these situations, because the narcissist is dependent on this person or these people for survival. This causes them to be defensive and suspicious. Not only do they often believe everyone operates as they do, but as a defense mechanism to combat their nonexistent self-worth, they also believe they are the focus of everything and everyone is just waiting to take from them somehow. Or, they may believe everyone needs them somehow and they are the only ones who can help or fix things. At the same time, they fear the exposure of "who they really are" and the resulting loss of necessary relationships which will culminate in their needs not being met. And, whether conscious or unconscious, they also need someone to blame things on so that they can remain perfect and therefore valuable. It's a complicated and unbalanced situation that does not usually last very long. Cracks in the narcissist's facade start to show through, often very early in the relationship. In established relationships, this is often experienced as "going back to their old ways." As in, "Mom promised to butt out of my business and stop being so controlling, but here she is, calling my landlord and making everything worse instead of letting me do it myself. She's back to her old ways after not even a month." In order to achieve the respect of the narcissist (which is really only admiration and envy), they must perceive you to be better than they are in some way or at something. However, the narcissistic person is so self-loathing that this admiration and envy curdles quickly. Admiration becomes scorn and contempt. Envy becomes jealousy. The things that made the narcissist believe you were superior and therefore attractive now make them feel inferior and therefore ashamed. Because they perceive their emotions as coming from outside sources, they often assert that you are doing things to cause this feeling. This is perceived as an attack and will be treated as one. The worse the narcissist perceives you are making them feel, the worse you will be treated. The more you deny these intentions, the less they will believe you. Part of the reason for this ongoing competitive perception is that narcissists often cannot manufacture anything of their own. They cannot win unless someone else loses. Their entire life is a play they are putting on for an audience of one: themselves. Other people are simply props used to make the fiction more believable - to themselves. Narcissists are in a zero sum game. They can't win unless someone else loses. They can't succeed unless someone else fails. They can't be the victim unless someone else is the villain. They can't be right unless someone else is wrong. It is only through the reality of the other person that they can experience the reality of themselves when you add that to a situation where a person struggles with pathological delusional shame and cannot take responsibility for anything because of it you end up with a situation where one of the other person or people's primary functions in the relationship is to be the scapegoat and the blame holder. So even if the other person in a narcissistic relationship strives to only ever see the narcissist as perfect they still can't succeed because the narcissist by default must blame this person for everything including their own thoughts feelings and actions. When you are to blame you cannot be perfect either way you lose.

Mirroring is the reason we often find that superficial relationships are more important to the narcissist than those with family or people who know them well. The reflection they perceive from those who know them is not perfect. A lot of times, in fact, it's awful. Even if it isn't, they often perceive it to be, because how could it not be? But those who do not know the narcissist have not been tainted with knowledge of the narcissist's abusive, reckless or uncaring behavior. They are pure in that sense and the image they mirror back to the narcissist reflects that. This can be why triangulation and compartmentalization happen; the narcissist does not want this "pure supply" of positive regard for them to be tainted by those who know them. They will often go to great lengths to keep people in their lives apart for this very reason. If someone's opinion of them changes or they simply perceive a loss in that "pure supply" from someone, they will often reveal their pathological fear of exposure by accusing others of ruining the relationship or going behind their back to tell the person things about them - even when this is completely illogical or makes no sense, such as in a situation where the people involved don't even know each other. This is one of the most destructive things about narcissistic relationships of any kind, and one of the reasons they are doomed to failure. The narcissist must maintain their flawless self-image at all costs. To do otherwise is to be swallowed by self-hatred and shame. Of course, this is impossible. No one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. But in the narcissist's unrealistic perception, this is not acceptable. Beyond not acceptable, in fact; the waves of shame it causes are intolerable and even life-threatening. But though reality can be interpreted and lied about, it cannot be erased. There are times when someone simply must be to blame for something. There are failures which cannot go unanswered. There are mistakes which cannot go unpunished. In these situations, the narcissist needs a scapegoat. Now their perfect partner is not so perfect anymore. One cannot be perfect and reflect perfect positive regard for the narcissist while also being to blame for everything. This is where the relationship falls apart, usually on both sides, because what the narcissist wants from their partner is impossible for anyone to give, and their frustration at not getting it is huge. Narcissists have enormous difficulty resolving conflicting information about one object. Something is either black or it's white. It's either good or it's bad. It's either perfect and valuable or flawed and therefore worthless. No grey area, no in-between. Most of us understand that everyone has positive and negative qualities. We can adjust to this and accept that no one is perfect. Narcissists have immense difficulty with this, not because they believe that less than perfection is worthless (this difficulty is part of the reason they believe that, in fact; you're either one or the other), but because the actual processing of these contradictory things is exceedingly difficult for them To try and process these things, for example that a perfect object has made a mistake, causes them extreme distress. This is why they often accuse people of lying, misleading them or betraying them just for not being perfect. They cannot make sense of the situation emotionally and it results in splitting. Their mind creates multiple categories or images for one thing, instead of being able to reconcile all of the object's characteristics into a total understanding of it. Rather than a complete and balanced picture of something or somebody, there is a "good" image of the object, and a separate "bad" one. This is something that happens in babies and very small children because they don't have the capacity to work this out for themselves in a way that they can accept and understand. For whatever reason... abuse, neglect, indulgence or some combination of factors, the pathological narcissist's development has been arrested and they are unable to do this, either. Splitting causes serious issues in relationships with narcissistic people, and is part and parcel to the idealization-devaluation cycle so many people find themselves stuck in. A person cannot be perfect if they are to blame for things. Someone who is not perfect has no value. Someone who has no value does not matter. They are not important. And that is how they will be treated. Until they try to leave, of course, and that is when the narcissist suddenly realizes they are necessary and usually attempts to re-secure the situation. We call this attempt to suck people back in to the relationship hoovering and it happens because the narcissist is suddenly faced with the loss of a necessary situation and their self-worth bottoms out. A bad reflection is better than no reflection, and they will do whatever they can to get things back the way they were. Hoovering is about the narcissist's attempts to control their resources. It is a survival mechanism necessitated by being unable to provide for their needs themselves. Devaluation is the opposite of idealization if idealization is defined as regarding something as perfect or as better than it is in reality meaning that you're assigning more value to something than it realistically has. Devaluation is assigning less value to something than it realistically has. If something is no longer perfect and it must be perfect in order to have any value to this kind of person then not being perfect anymore equates to having no value at all. This is all about you being the mirror... if a mirror reflects a less than perfect image you probably wouldn't want to use it anymore. In order for the fragile fiction of idealization to last people can never get to know each other. They can never see each other make a mistake or have a flaw, make a bad choice or do anything that results in a loss of perfection. Of course this is unreasonable and ridiculous it's not possible to be round somebody and still believe that they're perfect you will see their flaws their mistakes their bad choices they will see yours. In a normal relationship some idealization does happen but the relationship survives it it recovers and people adjust to who the other person actually is. devaluation occurs in narcissistic relationships because narcissists cannot do that the revelation that the person is not perfect is unforgivable. Many narcissists will even accuse other people of lying to them or tricking them by pretending to be someone that they're not. The devaluation of the other person can be triggered by essentially anything and nothing. It could be that they saw the narcissist imperfections even if they don't see it that way or it could be that the narcissist saw theirs. Either way once this happens the relationship is essentially changed forever the reflection the narcissist sees from the other person is not perfect anymore. It's been damaged this is devastating for them because they spend their entire lives trying to avoid reality and they cannot forgive someone who caused that. As high up on the pedestal a person was that's how far they're gonna fall and the result is often shocking for people. This is of course backwards unreasonable and unrealistic but this is a person who lives in a fiction and if you can't live in it with them you don't care about them. Narcissists also have such unstable identities, often imitating others or making up an identity completely. They simply don't have one of their own. Even those who seem to have a strong personality are usually just emulating someone else. The narcissist learned at an early age that having your own thoughts, feelings and opinions is dangerous. So they repressed them and as adults, they can be literal strangers to themselves, often unable to make even basic choices or answer simple questions about themselves. They may be unable to answer questions about why they like things, why they do things or why they believe things. They just do. It's an interesting and sad side effect to this behavior that the more narcissists attempt to emulate someone they admire, the more they feel controlled and dominated by that person. This is called engulfment, or a fear of engulfment. This results in anger and accusations from the narcissist, and the other person shaking their head in confusion. Narcissists suffer at varying degrees from a fear of rejection that is coupled with a fear of engulfment. This is another reason for the push-pull dynamic of their relationships.

Narcissists also have ridiculously unreasonable expectations for people and for relationships they demand to be the most important thing in any relationship in any situation at all times. Underneath the heroic or needy or self-assured or arrogant or capable or whatever other image they're projecting is a very fragile very sensitive self-loathing and shame-based ego that reads abandonment rejection insult and contempt into literally everything. One of the functions of the other people in these relationships is to somehow be he person they don't feel this from. The one person they don't get that from this is of course impossible and evaluation occurs partially because people fail to do that this is one of the things that can lead to the discard phase of the relationship. Because people are necessary for the survival of pathologically narcissistic people, they are essentially resources. Narcissists have severe anxiety in this area, because of their deep-seated insecurity regarding their needs being met. They rely on others to do this for them, and controlling people and situations is the way they try to ensure that these resources are secure and their needs will be met. When they are unable to do this, their anxiety can explode into hysteria, rage, violence, cold silence or simply fleeing the situation because they cannot deal with the overwhelming feelings of insecurity and helplessness that come from not being able to control other people. All of the manipulation, abuse and controlling behavior from narcissistic people is an attempt to secure resources from someone who is in survival mode. A discard can happen when the reflection of themselves that the narcissist is receiving from the other person is not what they want to see they cannot deal with what they are seeing reflected from the other person whatever that is. This mirroring is any other person's primary function in any narcissistic relationship and if they cannot fulfill it they will be discarded and or replaced with someone who can. Their primary purpose is no longer necessary narcissists don't have relationships with people they can't get things from when others are no longer important in this way which is really the only way they actually can be important they cease to matter at all. Discard does not always happen and discard does not mean that the narcissist will never come back around. some relationships simply go through cycles of idealization and devaluation over and over and over until the narcissist dies. The narcissist may discard and stay away for years then attempt to reach out again all of a sudden out of the blue. Either way through all of the cycles of the relationship none of the fluctuations in the narcissistic emotions or behavior are caused by others or because of otthers. This is an unstable person with a unstable reality and emotions.

@@janx8695thanks for sharing this. You just gave me so much clarity on issues I’m having with the narcissist in my life.

Aw Thank you!

Hmmmm I have to think about that actually

Yes for sure

​@@Thenamelessnarcissisteven if your mortifed but your ex is refret and dont know about narsisism before but beg for forgiveness

Yes for sure, but lieby to a lesser extant depending on the situation