I wrote this in another post...but Sgt. Waters may very well be the most interesting black character ever put on film. The depth of the man is astonishing and if you ask 50 black people, you might get a split on how they view him. When I was younger, it was easy to write him off as a self hating Uncle Tom. And I think there were remnants of that in there by design. But it's SO CLEAR that there's much more to him than that. If anything, I think he cares TOO MUCH about his people...to the point of losing perspective of how different black people can be. When you consider it's based in WWII (the early 1940's), it makes a lot of sense. This is before Dr. King, hell this is before Jackie Robinson. Robert Townsend's character mentions Joe Louis' knockout of Max Schmeling...that literally may have been the stateside highlight of black people en masse in the United States at that time. I say stateside because Jesse Owens completely obliterated Adolf Hitler's notions of white supremacy in the 1936 Olympics, but that was in Germany. So, we're still segregated and there's still the vestiges of second class citizenship in the U.S., both north and south. So from Sgt. Waters' point of view, the only way to be on the level of white people is to beat them at their own game. You don't have any margin for error. Remember, this was an era when blacks were still being lynched for God's sake. So you have to be sharp, smart, hard working, and disciplined. That's why he rides those men...it's his way not to build them up, but to separate the ones he doesn't think fit this worldview of advancement. Remember, HE LIKES Peterson (Denzel Washington). They fight, but he respects his intelligence and toughness. CJ on the other hand, comes off as the simple, sambo, Geechie stereotype. Everything wrong with the PERCEPTION of black people in Sgt. Waters' eyes. That's really what it was about. He didn't really have a personal problem with CJ...the conversation he has with him in the prison kinda confirms that. It was just...business. The business of black advancement. And to get where he saw black people going, it had to be done with those values I spoke of and his Waters' eyes, CJ just didn't cut the muster. You wanna know how I come to this conclusion? It's in the end of the movie. He's drunk because he feels guilty about his responsibility in CJ hanging himself. He knows he drove him to do it. Fascinating considering he tells Wilkie about the man they killed in France that was willing to be "King of the Monkeys". And after all of those efforts to be seen as an example, to take his place with those white men he secretly despised, he comes to the stark reality that in his words, "They still hate you!" The irony is that Peterson and Waters come from two sides of the same coin, which really was the underlying theme of the movie. Hate in any form can be justified, but it is never productive. Waters hatred of the idea/perception simple, non race lifting black people...and Peterson's hatred of 'Uncle Tom' type men like Waters. Both were WRONG...and yet, both still persist today.
DAMN Man, you hit that nail right on it's head. Shit, that is a real good observation on the mind set during that time and era, some people don't take the time to research SHIT and go off on the the notion of what somebody else said. You made a lot of good points my man, WELL DONE...
Great breakdown and analysis of perspective based on BOTH... 1) The era and timeframe the movie was set in ( seperate water fountains, only one real generation after slavery, at least a half generation B4 the Civil Rights movement and Vietnam, MLK-Malcolm X-JFK, these were the children of slaves judging 'lost' grandchildren if slaves... Reminds me of the Butler how Whitaker's character's perspective and world view couldn't help but be different from his 'trouble-making-time-wasting "lost" son But he lived long enough to see his son has a hero, a patriot and joined him 2) As the OP stated though...being able to pick up the depth of the character and how his generational experience may have molded him many times means the consumer ( the reader/watcher) themselves have to be mature/cultured enough to 'get' it or ish flies over one's head. Again I didn't even want to see the Butler but it came on, on Father's Day my young adult son and I got caught up in 'what's this' from rhe opening scene...is that David Banner 'the rapper'...and couldn't stop watching Anyway the point is if you ask Forrest Whitaker's character ( the Dad aka The Butler) about his son, among other things the answer and thought pattern would definitely have to do with WHEN you asked him... How much life had he seen up into the time in which you asked the question...same thing here, I too am in my 40's ( late) and seeing thus movie and one like the Butler are seen in a different lense than they could have ever been seen 20-25 years ago So yeah as a no life experience kid you might see Sage ( as I did at one time) some kinda way, that's different than a more well-rounded person taking into account more context Some ppl like Denzel's character or The Butler's son have the luxury of being one-track driven because ppl before them laid the groundwork and passed the baton to a different type runner, not necessarily better just different Just like in sports, sometimes 'styles' and timing "make" some folks a God-like hero vs another baller that just never got 'da 💘 but was the ish, if looked back upon with sage eyes and perspective ( Dr. J...anybody?) We have to remember, by tge time we get to the 5th flow of experience and perspective...many haven't made it past the 2nd and sadly a lot never will....
@xanderluv But i've realized that don't matter now, All that matters is All the folks That are giving him his props today 👏, And it never changes the fact that he was a legendary actor!
Black Pride needs to Be Brought Back. A lot of these Foolish Acts In the Black Community Today Would Be Severely Diminished if Strong Black MEN Were Involved.
Sorry but the sort of Pride the powers that be want in black men these days are the stunning and brave kind with mascara and a dress. And they have the means to do it through black women. Overwhelmingly democrat and will bargain or browbeat anyone into that agenda or else they face social and financial exile.
There will always be dummies and folk that just don't want to get involved. To be honest, they aren't the problem. More Black people are going to college than ever before, and racism hasn't gone away. Black excellence will not stop anti-blackness. Black love and black pride can only give so much respite
But he didn't have to get CJ in trouble. CJ may have played the fool, but there's a difference between a good natured fool and a malicious fool, and what Waters did was horribly eugenical.
One of my best friends and myself had a ""BIG" argument over this. I had and still "HATE" SGT Waters for what he did to CJ. The irony of all this was CJ was the "only" person who cared about SGT Waters but SGT Waters destroyed him. Then SGT Waters admired Peterson and Peterson destroyed him.
the real irony to me is that waters was exactly what he hated in cj. both different characteristics; cj could be accused of ignorance, hell, its what he knew, it was his environment, and it was the 1930s/40s. the exact things he hated about cj, he also had such characteristics, waters was a low life , and he was really the disgrace to the race, not cj. peterson did waters a favor by killing him
This speech is powerful. “He’s the kind of boy that seems innocent Wilkey . Got everybody on the post thinking he’s a strong black buck. White boys envy his strength… His speed.. the power in his Swing” my favorite line in this movie
That was one of the most beautifully directed scenes I've ever seen. Perfectly compliments the story; which gets your full attention so well you hardly even realize every little change.
No...say what you want about their politics, but 1) At least they let people know right away that they play for the other team, which is more than can be said for all the so-called leaders who are BROTHA this and BROTHA that who have done nothing but cheat our people, and 2) they had the wherewithal to have the discipline to learn such things like brain surgery and law respectively. Now people like BOBBY SHMURDA and KANYE WEST? Those guys are definitely the type that would "run around the barracks butt naked with a tail strapped to them" if it paid enough money...and as an added bonus, they would FLASH THE CASH in front of everybody to let everyone know how SUPERIOR they are!
Dedicated to dumb bitches who blame rappers for EVERYTHING without looking at their own stupid asses. By the way dumb shit why don't you stupid fuckers ever call out idiots like Tom Joyner and his gang of cackling morons, Rickey Smiley and his ship of ratchet fools or Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, D.L. Hughley et al? Dumbass
@spr95que Right, that's why he like Peterson. But Pete took him out. I wonder had he went through with promoting Pete how that would have effected the outcome.
A Soldier's Play is a play by American playwright Charles Fuller. Set on a US Army installation in the segregation-era South, the play is a loose adaptation of Herman Melville's novella Billy Budd, and follows the murder investigation of the Sergeant in an all-black unit. The play uses a murder mystery to explore the complicated feelings of anger and resentment that some African Americans have toward one another, and the ways in which many black Americans have absorbed white racist attitudes. The drama won the 1982 Pulitzer Prize for Drama, among other accolades. It was the basis for a 1984 feature film adaptation, A Soldier's Story, for which Fuller wrote the screenplay. Source Wikipedia
You don't get anything about the concept of Black Nationalism do you? CJ was weak, he was a disgrace, he was stupid and feeble minded. Sargent Waters was trying to make the best out of his men and he wanted them to represent the best of our race, who would not give his best only earned his scorn. You didn't listen to the conversation when he was sitting at the table with the other black officers when he was talking about his boy going to college? Those were not the sentiments of a sellout. You must be really young. I don't think you know much of African and African-American history. Sarge represented the best, his men just didn't understand what he was trying to do.
Abdulkareem Al-Bertali You dont get anything. It wasnt about him proving anything to whites, and CJ killed himself and he only proved that Waters was right about him all along, CJ was weak.
Abdulkareem Al-Bertali Your a clown, you dont get anything about being black. I dont think you are black at all. What is it about having racial pride you dont get? When you actually have self pride and race esteem, you get offended when someone disgraces your race. Sarge Waters was the epitomy of a Black Nationalist.
I didn't like Sgt Waters when I first saw this film way back when but as I got older and saw exactly what he was talking about, I totally agree with him. Too many of our folks are dressing up and allowing others to name them "Moonshine, King of the Monkies" (or whatever modern variant of that is) and we cannot afford them any more. The game is nowhere as overt as it was during this film, but it has not gone away at all.
Canadian for Trump ...You fail to understand that these were soldiers, trained and more than ready to fight, but weren't really allowed to. The generals and others of high rank didn't take them seriously, and only tolerated their presence as a condescention to the Commander in Chief's wife, Eleanor Roosevelt.
Gary Augustus thank you. People forget the military was segregated until 1946 or 47. Black units were mostly support. Cooks, supply, guards, mechanics, or special aides. When you see WW2 footage how many black people do you see. Not that many because few were not allowed to fight.
You need to read the background of this play. He is a villain, he became what he hated a bigot. Unlike the white folk, his people dealt with him. He had a false sense of power. Smfh
"You got to be like them, but the rules are FIXED!" "..but it doesn't make any difference. They still hate you!" That scene revealed so many complexities of being Black in a white world.
This wasn't in the script, which was pretty tight to which I mean the writing was brilliant, I sometimes wonder before they put the knife to that soldier's throat what if the whites put a knife to his throat to get him to do it? It's a big what if since the Sarge is suggesting the soldier was paid, but it could have been a situation where he got the carrot and the stick, so they were killing someone who was put in a position where he was given no choice and then killed off by those who should have been his friends. Just wondering, perhaps too much.
@@schizoidboy Not sure how old you are but there were plenty of black people back then that truly believed white people were superior. Starting with Booker T. Washington. There are still plenty of black people today who "act a fool" for the enjoyment of white people. Starting with Kevin Hart.
@@schizoidboy No one can make you wear a tail and be paraded around to shame your entire race. Death before dishonor is a real thing. I think you need to watch the monologue again. I think you are missing the overall context, historical context, more than likely aren’t familiar with the dynamics of what Adolph Caesar is talking about. Also, the whole part about “Moonshine” asking what he did wrong before his throat was slit negates your whole hypothetical theory as to the possibility of what could justify “Moonshines” behavior. I really think that whole scene flew about 30,000 ft right over your head.
Totally agree. I love it when an actor can deliver a key clue of a mystery through a single line. We (the audience) know whatever is going to come next is going to be important.
……..and he literally influenced him (planted ill seeds in his mind) to hate him like *he hated him……even though he had no valid reason to do so. The downfall of most folk in general……………..regardless of their “race.”
@junglekutz5625 No, he had a valid reason to hate CJ and he explained it. What he didn't have was a legit reason to make life hard on him. He could have tried to have a sit-down wit him and explain what his views.
And the cruel irony to this is what happened to Black GIs that earned those honors when they came back "home." The shame of a nation to treat soldiers that way.
@@davidcombs3617 Oh you mean like how quite a few were killed or beaten and a huge number of them were denied benefits? "What have you got to LOSE?" --Donald Trump (the guy that'll take it all once he finds out)
@@davidcombs3617 I've been trying to make a Red Summer documentary happen for over a decade. One of the two or three most important, most deeply hidden parts of this country's complicated history.
YES!!! I always thought this was one of the best scenes in the movie. The entire mood changed and you could see the disgust and hate in Sergeant's eyes!!! Academy Award worthy scene.
Taken right out of stage play direction. Not many movies use the technique. The depend on camera cuts and camera angles. Stage plays do it because everything is done right in front of the audience.
HE DESPISED HIM! That line is delivered so well.......this might be one of the powerful scenes in the entire movie.......this and the fight scene between Sarge and Petersen
As a Mexican-American I cringe every time I see a Hispanic dude with a shaved head, covered in tattoos, wearing a wife beater shirt with shorts and ankle length socks. Unfortunately, that's the image most people have of us. Not a problem. I do my own thing. Can't control other people nor do I want to.
8 лет назад
but why do u cringe? because u know it scares whitey and you are doing your darndest to make whitey accept you?
JRFrancisco20088 but it's crazy that you saying being Mexican American you cringe...I'm Mexican as well...I know plenty of Mexicans that look like that and dress like that...or do you not know of the Mexican cartels and gangs???
JRFrancisco20088 Ok, but not every spanish person is the same I am Puerto Rican we shave are head bald too. Hey don't depict Mexicans as gangster. We all do the same shit!
Sgt Waters went to a dark place when started telling that story. For the most part he seems like a very benign character with well meaning intentions but at the end of the story it ends up with him slitting someone's throat. Adolph was a great actor damn shame he died so young.
Waters was justified in doing so, because one negro has no self respect and would demean himself for money and hold back all negros. This was in WW1. So water's and most likely other black soldiers who are wanting respect murdered him. Waters always saw CJ as a fool. Sure not on the level of a guy who would wear a fake tail and eat bananas and act like a monkey but he saw cj as the weak link in the chain.
my daddy told me we have to turn our backs on his kind Wilkie, close our ranks to the chitterlinks ( chitlins), Collard greens, cornbread style... lol oh shit!
And proudly call themselves a real niqqa. Which when you think of how the word was originally used, they are right. Our here clowning all day, every day.
THEY DONT MAKE BLACK MOVIES LIKE THIS ANYMORE. THIS MOVIE CAME OUT IN 1984. ONE OF MY FAVORITE BLACK MOVIES. GOOD ACTORS,EXCELLENT PERFORMERS. SOMEBODY SHOULD Have GOTTEN AN AWARD FOR THE EXCELLENT MOVIE.!!!!
Sarge wasn't completely wrong but he went about it the wrong way. Our people need to be woken up and with that being said he should have took CJ under his wing to teach him better. Destroy CJ? This is killing your own people instead wake him up!
Yes, they can when they show some potential and capitalize on it. Instead, we're busy judging or comparing them against ourselves to make us feel less inferior. And the whole aim isn't to expect other people to reach the mountaintop; only to rise up from their backgrounds and become better versions of themselves. We've just given up.
Very Strong point, And Right. Thats how I see todays" gangster hip hop" crowd they don't see it but they are an embarrassment to our legacy of a strong Respectable people. C.J.s
One them Geechees sarge is looking down on, Bumpy Johnson, had the intelligence to be a lawyer, wanted to be one but back only so many got the chance. Waters would never have layed a glove on Johnson without a fight.
Adolf Caesar played the hell out of this scene. Very powerful, tense & emotional scene. It just grabs your attention to his story. I saw this movie at the local movie theater. Too bad it was beaten out by Amadeus in the Academy Awards for Best Motion Picture. It' one hell of a movie.
Just as long as we recognize the movie for what it was! Doesn't matter what the Academy thinks..... This is 1of the few few movies that I can watch over and over again!
@williamwooten6156 ....Oh Nah, He was angry about it But because he understood the Dynamic he Knew that OUR own people Needed to be policed First. We have to stop looking like Fools Before we are going to be Taken Seriously.
When the scene went dark and quiet, and the camera closed in on Waters you can just feel the anger he was feeling with the "made him eat bananas in front of those Frenchys", powerful scene
A'Don Allen III "..it was a crazy kinda hate...you could just feeeel it." Art Evans is one of our country's finest character actors. Check him out in 'The Mighty Quinn', 'Trespass', 'Die Hard 2' and 'Jo Jo Dancer....'
Bet Spielberg must've the watched this film over and over until he finally got it in his mind to bring 'The Color Purple' to the big screen a year later. Wouldn't be surprised to find out if he had specifically requested Adolph Caesar for the supporting cast after putting down a career-defining performance in 'A Soldier's Story'. And yeah, that was one heck of a black cast! You can even tell Denzel as young as he was back then was gonna end up goin' places not long after this film... ;-)
The way the background falls away when Sarge tells the story. Brilliant cinematography. Like you are descending past the veil and into the deep abyss of Sarge’s hatred and motivation. Also, the addition of “Mademoiselle from Armentieres” at the beginning of the story is brilliant.
That guy was also the voice of many trailers in the 70s and early 80s before his death as he did Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead, Creepshow, Sleepaway Camp, Nightmare (1981), Bloodsucking Freaks, Blacula, The Dark Crystal, Nightmare on Elm Street and so much more. Adolph Caesar, the most legendary trailer voice this side of Percy Rodriguez and more.
Adolph Caesar dominated this role. One of the most powerful performances I ever seen on film to this day. I was really young when I first saw this and didnt appreciate it til I got older.
What an incredible scene. While I'm an old White dude, this gave me a tiny glimpse into the Black experience in America that I had never even thought of. Powerful acting and writing. Makes me tear up no matter how many times I see it.
"The Prowler...If he wants you, he'll get you" -Adolph Caesar. This man also did the voiceover for the trailer to Alphabet City. At the end of the trailer he said, "soundtrack available on Island records and tapes". I was like what are those?
Anthony Smith no he was not right. I dont know where you coming from..but a crying..mean..blubbering self hating punk aint never right ..he is the ignorant one..not CJ..or any of the others..no one should EVER hate the color of their own skin..it lessens their mind..and view of things. Never is an easy answer but one should always seek out the best of their ethnic group.. It is there..because we are all human. This sgt waters failed to see..when being a military enlisted leader entrusted to a cadre of men..he let himself down as well as them by turning into a whining..sniveling..punk who hated himself.
PaulGreen11 think about what you said. In spite of everything..at least CJ knew who he was..JAY Z knows who he is..im sure..the only person who is confused is sgt waters..and anyone who agrees with waters need to be looked at closely.
It’s amazing how when I became an adult I got a complete understanding of Sgt Waters now I don’t agree about how he went about things but he was definitely on point!
@@R-Chillz Just be lucky he didn't go psycho like Gomer Pyle in _Full Metal Jacket._ But yes that fool soldier disgraced his rank, his squad, and his race. A honor killing, to be sure.
