Welcome to the Sunday Roast! We are a Political Sunday Morning Panel show, with guests and hosts from across Europe! Hosted by Max Robespierre and Political X.
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Sorry Rejoin party, whilst my heart is with you all the way, your lack of pragmatism does not bring us one step closer to rejoining, other than you being a party of protest to try and keep the message alive. All the signs suggest Labour will take us carefully on the only available steps towards alignment to customs to etc etc
I think the whole narrative & dialogue will change when Lab get in. The obsession on immigration, sovereignty & nationalism is an internal drama for the Tories & we’ve all been enrolled into it. Also this Govt use immigration as an escape / pressure valve to deflect - eg people aren’t suffering on NHS list, housing or low pay because of them but because immigrants are taking it all away from them. When everyone’s doing OK & feeling secure, this angst just isn’t there. I think Starmer’s going to achieve much more than we think. He’s a plotter & planner with a mind for detail & standards. Right now it’s an obstacle course & he can’t risk splitting votes on Brexit or immigration, taxes, business or media etc. +He has to take everyone with him, it’s not a solo mission. If after a while businesses, independent research, people, media etc., start talking about EU truthfully - cost of Brexit & without interference & financial backers - they’ll no doubt build a strong case for it before calling another referendum. Think he’ll also do a lot on media reform & clean up on ethics & standards in parliament.
Great debate. Very informative, very interesting. Well done Graham and Richard. I err towards Graham’s view point. I hope we’re right, Graham! Good luck to Richard in the GE. 👏👏👏
I agree. I think one of the things that needs to be prioritised in our country when Labour is elected into office is media reform, ensuring that the news is politically unbiased and is balanced. Unfortunately, the reason that the Tories have been in office for so long is because of the powerful biased media, alongside a first past the post voting system, and the money poured into the Tory party. I completely agree with the panel on all of these issues that need to be urgently addressed . We also need to have a PR system of voting, and I hope this can be achieved at some point in the near future. Another priority is to stop this ridiculous top-down, trickle-down nonsense. This only serves to feather the nest of the rich corporations, which, in turn, steals from the rest of us, while the rich are getting even richer.
40:48 Graham is telling a bare-faced lie here: even an EU-backed report placed the blame for the outbreak of the 2008 Georgia-Russia war on Georgia. Look it up: 'Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report', Reuters, 30 September 2009.
Well, all the guys know that the Labour leadership will need to be pushed to embracre PR. Because Richard is absolutely right - they are bound to resist it. What's more, the fact that the unions have endorsed the idea of PR is not a clincher. They will quite readily take concessions from the Party and abandon it. And the Party has already turned Conference into a tame puppy so Starmer as he has on Gaza, can go on ignoring the majority views of the members.
Hi Sunday Roast, I really enjoyed this debate - like the last one with Phil and Helena. It's absolutely refreshing to see people discussing their different views in a respectful and constructive way. More of this please!!
Starmer has won the election BECAUSE of the positions he has taken. The one thing he could do to mess it up is to openly start advocating to rejoin the EU. This would allow the right wing press to say told you so.
Great show. In order to rejoin we need to embrace the systems of other EU member states. To do that we need to detorify and more resemble a market social economy and have NHS, press, constitutional, housing, infrastucture and tax reform, bring back maintentance grants for students and paid training apprenticeships. Finland, France and Germany have relatively fair educational systems with little to no private education.
I'd rather have a good Labour government than a perfect Labour opposition. I'll judge Labour on the results of their actions once in government. If Starmer can't be a good Labour leader, I'm more than happy he be deposed for someone who can. But at least it'll still be Labour, not more Blukip.
Q1, the economy is like an engine, taxes are like oil, they make it work more effectively, if you have enough taxes and you close off the leaks it all works smoothly, clearly the uk economy is about to if it's not already ceasing
The “renegotiation” coming up in 2025 with the EU isn’t a “renegotiation”. It’s a built in mechanism to see what went well with the trade agreement and if any modifications to the framework are necessary. From the EU requirements it checks all the boxes. The EU won’t renegotiate. It may result in some alignment on the U.K. part but that’s it. I wouldn’t expect Brexit to work any better under Labour.
I don't believe the population are rightwing. The fact the NHS is almost a religion, the welfare state, state education and state pensions are all socialist. It's the Tories, the billionaire-owned media, the capitalists who run the big companies and the stock exchange who are rightwing and hold most of the power. Add to that the public school domination of the civil service and the subservience to the Crown.
It is not just the current financial destruction by leaving the EU. But when we think about science, the creative industries and just cross cultural exchange is so vital to our civilisation, as well as vital skills shortages. We have deal with migration globally. Authoritarian countries thrive on our divisions.
As someone who was too young to vote at the time, I'll have to raise some points about joining the EU: 1. We can't expect every single country in the EU to accept us back, even under a Labour government. They likely wont trust the new political state of the UK to be stable until Labour has been in charge for at least a decade like the tories have been. They won't want us to come in for a few years, vote in the Conservatives, then be out of the EU again. 2. People seem convinced that if we rejoin the EU we'll have the same treatment before we left. We wont, and we will need to consider the consequences of that. 3. Whether people want to admit it or not, the EU works for their own self-interests. They are selfish. Just like every other political group or country. We will need things to offer them to be able to join. They will need reasons that us entering the EU will give them advantages. 4. When it comes to advocating for the return to the EU, *_please don't focus on free movement!_* Or if you do, explain how it would benefit the poor. The main argument given for staying in the EU was freedom of movement, which seemed to just be something to appeal to out-of-touch middle and upper class people who could afford university and travelling. What about the people who _couldn't_ afford either of those things? How do you think they'd feel? Staying in the EU was seen as only a means for the rich to have an easier time travelling, which the poor obviously want to vote against because it's a bit of rich privilege. Focus on the importance of trade, how Brexit has caused food and medicine shortages, potentially how poor people could benefit from free movement because it does make travelling a bit cheaper.
Agree that Brexit is a disaster which Labour can't reverse right now and it would be folly to make it an issue during this election. However I think more fundamentally, undisciplined capitalism, exemplified by the Thatcherite cult, gave rise to all the economic and social ills that created the deceit of Brexit.
With the way that Globalist millionaires and wealthy middle-east governments have bought up so much of London and UK industry, the right wing nationalists like reform may prefer a strong communist left wing to become nationalist and recover some of these assets. The left becomes the right. And vice versa. The communists in Eastern Europe never allowed a takeover by capitalist industries in their countries.
The ReJoin chap misses the point that every rational person recognises that leaving was a mistake and that becoming a member of the EU is the only way to secure our future, however the electorate is not made up of rational beings and joining the EU is at a minimum 10 to 15 years in our future.
Georgia was invaded after the Georgian army attacked Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. Georgia is not part of NATO, and neither is Ukraine. Crimea and South Ossetia are similar in that the local population is Russian and had no wish to be part of Crimea or Ukraine. Russia has not attacked the UK, and you should pray it stays like that.
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When you type in "Russian peacekeepers", that's all anyone needs to see.
Graham Hughes talking about renegotiation of the deal and regulatory alignment. The deal is not up for renegotiation, the review is of its implementation, normally just a formality in the deals in which the EU has included this kind of article. Regulatory alignment is no good unless agreed formally by both sides. Countries all over the world align with the EU, The Brussels Effect. The CU and SM? The only way to access the SM and CU is by EU membership.
I'd rejoin in a heartbeat but the reality is... the EU wont take us back. It will take years of negotiation before all EU members vote to let us back in and after that we wont be in the same position we were before. We'll have to accept the Euro and schengen which the vast majority of the UK electorate are opposed to. We had our chance and we blew it (no thanks to Corbyn either). We have a huge mess to clear up before the EU will even consider letting us join the customs union
I see what you mean, but I'm not entirely convinced. Have you been following the political events in the Netherlands for example, where it has veered to the extreme right under Geert Wilders? Italy is another good example of the far right taking over a country. Britain is far less extreme in that regard. The EU does need to change or it will face huge social problems. So maybe the EU accommodating Britain will help the EU fix its own issues!
@@frankoneill5675 Why do you think Germany, Italy, Spain, France, or the Netherlands showed a large surge in anti-EU far-right parties? Brexit is still an issue for the EU as the reasons why Britain left is currently affecting EU politics more and more. Maybe borders do need to come back, maybe the EU does need to give more sovereignty back to member nations, etc. The EU is needing to make changes, more so than Britain at the moment if it is to survive.
@@davidjacobsen308 None of which explains the ludicrous suggestion that 'maybe the EU accommodating Britain will help the EU fix its own issues!' If the EU is experiencing problems (when is it ever not?), the last thing it needs is engagement with a constantly disruptive pain in the a... country like Britain
I agree with Graham that too many people are influenced by the lies of the Daily Mail, GB News, Express, Sun, and similar outlets. It requires very convincing arguments and a slow process of rejoining for it to ever work. For example, starting by rejoining the EU customs union, as Theresa May wanted before Boris Johnson destroyed things, would be a very good start. It would also be beneficial to have a real Conservative politician like Rory Stewart as the leader of the Conservatives, so a proper debate can take place, rather than with extremists like Farage, Badenoch, or Braverman.
Thank you, Graham for emphasising the absolute need for Press and Media Reform before anything else can happen in this country. Electoral reform and real economic recovery CANNOT happen without it!!!!
I fear that Richard is unfortunately correct. The right wing press will fill the country with their toxicity and drag the Overton window further right, putting Froggollum in No. 10 in 2029.
Rachel Reeves (shadow chancellor) in her recent the Rest is Politics interview said that the country made its decision to leave in 2016 and that should stand. Following that logic, the country voted for a Tory government in 2019, so shouldn't that more recent decision stand now and we shouldn't vote in a Labour government?
The UK requires a Scadevian-style economy. Reverse Regan, Thatcher tricky down disater economics. Privatisation has failed. The state must run all utilities essential to human life, for example, food security, clean water, electricity, green technology implementation, telecommunications, post service and transport. People must be given a minimum income, a home fit for human habitation, health, education, employment, and welfare. Also a military able to defend the country.
My partner and I lived in Paris in Jo-Jo''s place from Martinique for 5 months. Jo-Jo was always complaining of French racism and I and Claire witnessed it. There has been a rise in racism here since Brexit my currenr Chinese partner feels I see. Still it is nothing compared with France. So I hope we can stop Farage. We do need to take that threat seriously.
The difference here is that Grahame is in the real world whereas Richard is in a fantasy world where the problems Labour and the other progressive parties face don’t exist. The tell is that Richard thought ‘everything was on the right track until 2015’. He doesn’t see the systemic barriers that need removing before joining the EU is even a possibility.
The metric that can really be measured in this election is the hold that RW media (all media, but interestingly also the RW print media) loses, and their sequential twigs, branches and tree trunks that they grasp for in decline.
