Key differences. Manual aperture ring. Longer focus rotation for precise manual focus pulls by a first AC. Lens gears, often in a set they’ll all be in the same spot so you’re not adjusting matte box etc between lens changes. Color matched across the set. The mounts can vary these days but traditionally they were PL mount for cinema cameras. PL mounts have a strong locking mechanism.
Rolling shutter is not good on C70. I hope C70II will got global shutter sensor (Canon introduce developing 19MPx global shutter sensor). 2x CFexpress type B and SSD recording intead of stupid SD cards. C70II should get much much higher quality back tilt screen! And that`s pretty much it, C70 is great tool for filmmakers.
@@AlucinorProductions I got my R6 refurbished right after the MK II came out. I bought the lens for my paid work and it's paid itself off a couple times over already.
the question is .... when??? Nikon / Sony/ Panasonic / Blackmagic are moving forward... but canon ? nothing ... depressing... before productions company asked if you where using a canon... today they are asking if you are using a Sony....
When is indeed the question. I think Canon tends to do their own thing in their own time. Or perhaps they’re waiting till Sep/Oct to announce at a time when the limelight is firmly on them? Our personal experience with cameras and clients is that clients hire us for our team, not the cameras we use. I think the days of getting the gig because of your camera (at least in the commercial / corporate space) are long since over. So many cheap cameras are capable of outstanding images. To me it’s about what enables you to get the shots reliably and as speedily as possible. Let’s hope when Canon does “return” they bring it! (With SDI)
With Canon, it's usually a while between drinks. C300 Mk 1 came out in 2011, Mk II = 2015, Mk III = 2020. 5D = 2005, Mk II = 2008, Mk III = 2012, Mk IV = 2016. So, around a four-year product cycle. In return for this, though, you get a well-tested and robust (if perhaps unsexy) camera that (usually, mostly) just works. Just turn it on and film. Canon wants to be able to sell it throughout that four-year cycle.
Hi there, I’m considering going from my BMPCC4K to the Canon R5C, but I’m hesitating bc the image from the BM cams are so filmic, whereas much of what I’ve seen from the Canon cams looks a bit too digitally sharp and plastic-y, less organic to my eye. I prefer a softer film look. Any thoughts on this? I understand much can be achieved in post, but curious what you think, having worked with both cams? Thanks!
The r5c is a VERY sharp camera. I would say the Canon C70 is closer to BM in terms of the image. The C70 looks sharp compared to an Alexa 2k, but is noticeably softer than the 8k sensor on the r5c, even if you're recording in 4k. We've kept our 6k pro but it barely gets used at the moment, but still can't see the point in selling it. A 1/8 promist or other filter can be a godsend on a camera like the r5c for a more organic look... But, and I know this can be a pain to hear. I would rent one for a day shoot both cameras under different conditions then use the next day to go through it and see what you think. We definitely favor the C70 over the r5c most of the time.
There's one big thing I don't like about this camera (and I've got two of them as well, and an r5c): I don't like the weight and size. I often use the C70 handheld, and I never enjoy the experience. My left hand is uncomfortably twisted underneath the camera to support the weight, to keep it stable enough, and I get wrist strain. On top of that, I have to remove my hand from that position to adjust focus/zoom, which means I don't react as fast as I like. And while the camera is being supported just by my right hand in the camera grip, the image is shakier than I like. So, when I can, I prefer to use the r5c for handheld (despite the fact that the battery life on the r5c kills me). The physical size and weight also makes the C70 a lot less convenient than smaller bodies when you're packing a cabin bag for air travel, or just any time you want to take as few bags as possible. Not to mention for gimbal work. But I understand that smaller and lighter body is probably an impossible wish to grant... So, what to change for a C70 Mk II? Well, the main thing for me is just more of everything where image quality is concerned. More dynamic range, better autofocus, better stabilisation, higher frame rates, cleaner lowlight performance. Full frame vs super 35 -- well, full frame is great, but I also love the boost in light you get when using the Canon speedbooster EF to RF adapter. So, if it means sacrificing that extra stop of light for full frame, I'd probably prefer super 35 + speedbooster. I can live without a better LCD screen or SDI connections or full XLR ports (although changing those things would be great). The auto-ISO doesn't work under some frame rates / picture profiles. I can't remember exactly, but I think it doesn't work for slow motion, and doesn't work for raw. And the tripod-plate holes on the bottom of the camera -- why aren't they in alignment with the lens? Why, Canon, why? But at the end of the day, the question for me is, "Why would I upgrade from a C70 Mk I? What would get me to make that jump?" I used a 5D Mk III camera for years without upgrading. Well, the weight/size is one thing that would get me to upgrade. Another is if there's a significant jump in image quality. But I probably wouldn't upgrade just to get a brighter LCD screen and an SDI port. There's countless other filmmaking toys to spend money on instead... Where the r5c is concerned, though -- upgrade the battery life significantly, and I'll take out my wallet. It's that big of an annoyance to me...
Yeah I hear you. I like the r5c for handheld too, particularly pairing with a 24-70... But I actually add weight with a Zacuto rig to the C70. I'm used to much heavier cameras in the past (Ursa G2, Alexa, RED) and the weight really stabilizes handheld footage in a natural way. When I just shoot stripped back you can really see the stabilization difference at 25 and 50p... not so much at 100. We're in no rush to upgrade, C70 is still delivering great for us. But I do think a successor is around the corner sooner rather than later and if it does deliver improved DR, 120fps without long gop and SDI it'll be hard for me not to buy
SDI out is the number one request I'd make. And fix the bottom screw holes on the camera. Maybe add one on each side would be amazing. I love the camera and everything about it, I hope they release some nice portrait lenses to match.
@@deroux yeah no excuse not to have SDI out on the next one. Do you mean some nice APSC/super 35 sized lenses or just some more L series primes? I'm hanging out for the 35mm (using a Sigma Art for now) but the RF's autofocus is better and they're all much closer in look and feel
Now that the C400 has been announced, I'm figuring that Canon will release a C70 Mk ii or a C90 or whatever in about 6-12 months. They've got form for this. -- They brought out the C300 in November 2011, then the C100 in August 2012. At the time, Andrew Reid on EOSHD called it the C300's "younger, sexier sister". Same sensor, slimmer body, half the price -- at the cost of no SDI, and (I think) fewer slow motion options. I don't think you could do 1080p50. From Canon's perspective, this makes sales sense, right? -- you take the sensor you've already spent millions developing and drop it in a new body to milk money from a different segment of the market. -- C300 Mk III announced April 2020, then C70 announced a year later in March 2021. Same sensor, but no SDI. Smaller body. So... what's the bet that what's basically the next iteration of the C70 comes out in June 2025-ish? It'll have to be hit with some sort of cripple hammer, so it doesn't completely cannabilise C400 sales. I think smaller body and no SDI ports is pretty likely. Probably stay full frame and RF mount, because there's no real upgrade from C70 otherwise. I actually suspect it'll keep the 6K raw recording as well, so that it stays relevant for four years. Meaning, that the premium you pay for the C400 would be mainly for more inputs/outputs, and a body more suited for rigging out for narrative work.
@@Voiceimitator I think you’re spot on. We’ve pre ordered the 35mm 1.4. Although the c400 looks great, and I love that it’s 6k Full frame and 4K s35. That’s perfect IMO. Dynamic range is more important to me than low light capabilities. I think it was CVP groups video that showed this has less latitude than the c300mkiii/c70. I’m hoping canons next cinema camera (in 6-18 months I guess/hope?) has a dual or triple gain sensor instead of triple base iso - with hopefully an extra stop or a half stop at least in the highlights. That’s when we’ll take the plunge I think… but likely keep our c70s and. R5c as B/Ccams. I really hope it has SDI though, as the fx6 does I just think all the Cine line except for hybrid cameras should have at least one SDI output
Understand. I love our Ursa G2. Didn’t mind the weight and we had the pocket 6k pro as well (still do) but I started really craving a camera with decent face tracking autofocus for interviews.. especially when I was doing shoots on my own. The canon (Sony would too) gives a lot of confidence and I can shoot wide open no worries
Legitimate gripes! SDI is needed for sure. Even "improved" display hinge is a joke - c'mon Canon! I just bought a used C70 (with the newer hinge!), graduating from a C100 M2 and I love it (even though I miss my EVF!). The firmware updates were significant and even when the C70 M2 comes out I'll have no regrets buying this camera.
Same here. The c70s are outstanding for our everyday work. No regrets here either. And fortunately we’re decked out with Evf’s and monitors. We’re trying to reign in our spending this year though… but we’ll see lol
Aaaaand box style for a new improved C70. I don't use mine (2) like a mirrorless. If they could pull off a variable ND as well I'd be happy. For those rare shots going from light to dark auto IRIS is not the end of the world. Canon is gonna drop some bombs. No doubt in my mind.
Yeah I think lots of people want that box style or at least more asymmetrical and gimbal friendly design. I'd prefer it but it's not one of my must have's... I certainly hope Canon brings their A game on features and value. C'mon SDI!
I've been using the C70 since launch and basically agree with all of this, though I think the C70 is good enough and I'm trying to get it out my head that the next camera will be 'the one' somehow. At the end of the day I feel like we've reached peak camera for the time being. Everything being released over the past 5 years feels like minor tweaks and improvements that aren't necessarily going to change our lives overnight. I also agree that spending over 10k on a camera now feels like diminishing returns and I'm just not sure there is any benefit, you might as well rent an Alexa Mini/35 or a RED Raptor if a project is really asking for it. In the real world the gap has closed so much, and the difference between a project shot on a C70 or FX6/3 and a project shot on an Alexa is more to do with skills and story really.
Yeah agreed. There is a difference at the Alexa level... but that's a tool for a different type of shooting. As an all rounder the C70 is stellar. But, with how much market ground Sony have made I think Canon is going to need to respond. Whatever's coming I expect it's already in the pipe line
I have the set and I completely agree ! I am using them with the Alexa as well. Amazing combo ! I want to test them on my Z9 - just bought a PL adapter 👌🏻 Really love the examples shots, very comprehensive video. Only thing missing is how the bokeh looks when there's lights in the background! Lights looks oval, a bit similar to anamorphic lenses. By the way it's spells Bokeh and is pronounced bokeh... "Bo Ke", not "Boca" 😂
Really love the examples shots, very comprehensive video. Only thing missing is how the bokeh looks when there’s lights in the background ! Lights looks oval, a bit similar to anamorphic lenses. By the way it’s spells Bokeh and is pronounced bokeh… “Bo Ke”, not “Boca” 👌🏻🤪
The display hinge is just horrible. Don‘t understand why it‘s not the same like on the R5 or R3. They work perfectly fine. But the one on the C70 is just crap.
@@tythebelieveguy4228 that’s great. The difference between our older one and our newer on is chalk n cheese. Very loose on the older one, not so bad yet on its younger sibling.. but it’s definitely a weak point that could do with a revision imo
Nice video mate! I like the c300 mk 3 but its too expsensive for the competition available on the market. they need a true fx6 competition in a simular body.
Thanks mate. It’s been almost a year lol. You’re 100% spot on. Canon seems due for some fresh blood/cameras. Let’s hope Sony and Canon keep competing and pushing each other so we all benefit on price and features. And you make a great point. A more m Symmetrical gimbal friendly body would be rad
I switched to the C70 middle of last year from a RED DSMC2 Dragon and glad I made the move. Way better battery life, autofocus for interviews, and internal NDs! Honestly, most of my clients didn’t know or care I was shooting RED. Definitely seems like Canon needs to either release a C70 MKII or other RF cinema camera to keep things moving. Feels like they haven’t shown a lot of love in that area for a while. Also, totally agree with your Arri comment. They hold their value like nothing else.
Yes the battery life is so good. Things like that make a world of difference. No longer packing a load of vlocks on planes lol!! I loved our dragon. It is a wonderful camera but the c70 is so freaking versatile. I reckon we’ll get some big announcements from Canon this year and hopefully a 35mm 1.2!
you should try the Laowa cine 12mm zero-d. It's super nice! The tokina is also great, but the Laowa feels like a different beast, not least because of its crazy close focus
Hey, could you please tell me if the footage of the c70 and R5c is similar or quite different ? I always hear the c70 looks more filmic, while the R5c looks kinda digital like the R5. Also, is the CLOG 3 on the R5c as noisy as the R5 or has it been improved on R5c ? Thanks again!!
The r5c is sharper. Shadows are cleaner on the C70 at iso800. The C70 has slightly more DR (mainly in the shadows), but they aren't drastically different and we've done plenty of multicam interviews using both. I haven't used the R5 so can't comment on that, but you need to shoot raw if you want to process clog2 in post. I would say with the C70 you can under expose a little (to protect highlights) and bring it back up. But with the r5c you don't want to underexpose as a general rule. Unless you're leaving it there in post for artistic reasons... I will say we have since bought a second C70 since making this video. A few reasons. Way better power (batteries), built in ND's are just so vital as is mini XLR connections. And matching two C70s (one often handheld and one often on a gimbal) is easier. r5c becomes a Ccam or Bcam when the team has two shoots on one day. Love both cameras. I use the r5c in 8k raw for my bits to camera on the channel. But for general video work the C70 is the better all rounder IMO... Also just got the Canon RF-EF variable ND adaptor for the r5c so that will likely now run with our Sigma Art EF glass (as our Canon glass is RF).
@@AlucinorProductions Thank you so much for responding! Also what lenses do you mainly use on the C70 ? I was thinking of using ef glass with speed. booster but almost all ef glass has clicking AF noise which would render my shotgun mic useless as it would pick those sounds. I could use a lav, but in run and gun style vids, it may not be as convenient as a shotgun mic. Thank you once again !
@@doktorr23 No worries. We have moved away from using the full frame adaptor. There seems to be a bit of a loss of contrast and some softness towards the edges, at least with ours - so that's basically not getting used. We do use EF lenses with an RF adaptor with control ring... But main lenses would be the zoom trinity 15-35, 24-70 and 70-200. I use the 15-35 and 70-200 far more than the 24-70 as 24-70 not quite wide enough on s35. I also use the 50mm RF a lot. The 85mm 1.2 RF for interviews (not broll) - I use that more for stills on the r5c. I'm also using the Sigma Art 18-35 1.8 and 35 1.4 a lot... still waiting on Canon to release a new RF 35mm prime. Will pounce on that. If I'm shooting 100fps broll 18-35. If it's 25-50 I use the Canon 15-35 for the lens stabilisation. We also have the Sigma Art 50, 24 and the 24-70. Canon glass definitely delivers though but I use the 18-35 A LOT for broll and the Sigma Art 35 a lot for interviews (until Canon releases the new 35)
@@AlucinorProductions I have tired viltrox speed booster and experienced the same exact thing. Washed out look with lack of contrast and weird looking blurry edges. I was thinking it would be better on the native 0.71x adapter but guess not. I am waiting just as much as you for Canon to release a 35 f1.4. For now I am trying to make do with the rf 35 f1.8. I was also wondering how the autofocus on the sigma 18-35 performs on the C70 ? Is it reliable enough ? Sorry for so many questions and thank you so much for taking out time to respond. I really appreciate it!
Love them. They’ve been used on multiple tvc’s and corporates on Alexa and c70 and even Venice 2 in s35 6k. Basically all of our larger crew jobs, the smaller crew fast paced corporate gigs continue to be on c70s with Canon RF glass and a few sigma arts filling out the line up.
We have been working on a big short that was meant to be shot on them, but we were offered free use of a Venice 2 and Sigma Cine lenses. So it’s mostly shot on those with Sony cinealtas for flashbacks on Alexa classic
One thing you get wrong at 4:42 - It's actually the other way round. To get a wide angle on a Super35 you need a much wider lens than you would on a FF sensor, as you are essentially cropping in. Putting the same 35mm FF lens on a Super35 would look more like a 50mm lens. You also fail to mention that you are sacrificing good glass if you have a camera bag full of FF lenses. Since you are only using the middle part of the lens, you are effectively reducing how good the lens is. And defects of the lens gets magnified, meaning you better make sure they are expensive lenses. You also fail to mention the most important reason that Super35 is a bad idea.... space. If you have a set that has limited space and you want to get a lot into frame without the distortion of a wide angle, and you are backed right up against a wall, you will find the smaller sensor size very limiting.
That for commenting! Yep 4:42 shows a 35mm on the 6k pro (s35) then the 6k with a magicbooster (1.1 crop - close to full frame) with a 50mm. Maybe my language just isn't clear enough. Totally agree on your second point, great point. Third point, I hear you but day to day (corporates/commercials) it's just not an issue for me to be honest. But I do use both formats and agree full frame can be handy in small spaces.
@@AlucinorProductions I think it's more an issue in the UK where we have much smaller interiors. Somewhere like Hong Kong where you live practically in a cupboard FF is a must. TBH I don't like magic boosters since they cause more problems than they solve. Might as well just buy the appropriate prime lens used, for the money the boosters cost.
Rob Richardson said in the trades about shooting AIR with Ben Affleck, they couldn't get enough lenses for 3 cameras if they shot full frame. They ended up getting two prototype models of the Alexa 35 from ARRI, while Affleck's RED was C cam until the third model showed up.
Wow thanks for sharing that's fascinating! One of the reasons we'll likely be picking up an Alexa Mini (which our Classic can B-cam to) in the future - lens compatibility (AND PRICE 🙂) Great combo with our 6 lens s35 cinealta set. Thanks for watching!
Great call. One of the reasons I’m eyeing off the viltrox epic anamorphics… however we reckon we’ll get an Alexa Mini in the next 1-2 years so having open gate gives some pause on investing in a 1.3 set… although it makes for great approx 16.9 in opengate
Coming back to weddings and uits funny the C70 and the 6K pro are two cameras I am considering, depending how well it all goes but I am currently on a fuji. Though I know the mirrorless won't cut it forever, even if I do love the image.
Both make great wedding cameras. The resolution of the 6k can be great for the wide of the ceremony. I do think having the option to shoot 100-120 fps is handy if you want those super slomo posed moments, in which case I think the C70 is better... but the 6k pro is a bargain.
@@AlucinorProductions the slow mo isn't really my style the AF probably would be more useful to me, though I'd probably be adapting to EF at least in the beginning and this makes the 6k pro a bargain also the braw would be nice, while maybe a bit heavy. Then again Dr and lowlight from the c70 is great. I completely agree that the c70 is the most capable out of the box run and gun camera. And one of my faves on the market right now. Hard choice I think both are great and just down to cost the 6k probably wins. If only Fuji made a cine camera
The OG Tokina 11-16/2.8 PL-mount is what I reach for for ultra wide shots. Also, at 12mm it fills the fullframe field of view on my R5C. It also boasts solid metal construction.
I’m so guilty of this. And honestly my favourite and the work I’m most proud has been with a small team who all just had fun but worked together to get things done.
I have the r5c Fuji xh2s and c70. im looking at replacing the xh2s as c cam with the bmcc6k full frame and using r5c as my new c cam content camera. Do you think the 6k would make a better production camera as a B cam or should I just keep the r5c/c70 combo for clients and xh2s for personal stuff?
Personally I loved the Fuji xt3 for personal use. Stills and isolated video work. But we often struggled to grade it alongside BMD cameras. I think a key factor is do you want autofocus on a second interview camera with reliable face tracking? If not the new 6k could be great. But, I do think sticking with canon (or all BMD) makes grading easier. We literally just got a second c70 as although the r5c is great and we’re keeping it. The NDs save us time and time is saved in post bringing the cameras into line. The dual gain sensor on the c70 is just so nice too. And now we’ll often have the full frame adaptor on one (with sigma 24-70, 35 or 50 art) with RF lenses on the other… or all RF depending on the needs of the job. I know that doesn’t entirely answer your question but that’s what we’ve landed on. The r5c will still get used for light gimbal work and Ccam but I expect the main A/B cam option will be c2 C70’s
Another 6k pro user here… I’m also invested in the Fuji system too as I like to shoot stills also. (Although the video on Fuji is no slouch…) 10 bit internal with beautiful colours 😮 Am I tempted to switch? Yeah, every time a manufacturer brings out a new feature which the 6kpro doesn’t have 😂 but seriously, value for money, it’s a cracking bit if kit. I’ve been using a c300 mk3 for a month and interestingly, I sent it back…, I mainly shoot on cine glass with the odd powered zoom on a photography / hybrid Len’s for run n hun. It’s all in the lens. I’m thinking of going the LiDAR route for the occasional bit of gimbal work (I hate gimbals most of the time as they’re overused. But, i do use sparingly when required while rack focusing on a dji rs3pro. It’s ok. I actually like this technique but perhaps im just a control freak? 😊
Thanks for sharing. Yeah I want to get into the LiDAR autofocus or just practicing and setting up manual focus well for gimbal work. As a bit of an “all rounder” for lack of a better word I find I’m constantly wanting to upskill or revisit different aspects of the job. Whether it’s grading, gimbal work, lighting interviews, drone etc etc
@@AlucinorProductions atm. I’m also an all rounder - everything from a rock music video to a wedding and most things in between… doesn’t make great business sense really to be too diverse but I balance video / photography alongside a long career in entertainment so one might say I’m erm… living the dream 🤪😎
The Tokina 11-20mm is probably the best match for a wide angle... especially if you know what optics are used inside the V2 Sony CineAltas ;-) The V1 lenses did come with a wide angle zoom lens Sony SCL-P11X15, which was simply the older Tokina 11-16 rehouse by Sony.
@@AlucinorProductions I'm in the same place with the SLR Magic Hyperprimes. I own the Tokina 11-20mm and find it an ok match - but the 25-85mm range on the Hyperprimes is good for most work.
Nice thorough overview of your experiences and decisions. Helpful as I shop for a camera. C70 is high on my list. I have the same feeling about Sony. (funny that your slider shot has strong hints of Sony hues though) Too many choices! BM might just be the choice for my needs but this gives me great food for thought. Thanks!
I actually left Canon for Blackmagic. Canon has a very high end video camera look where Blackmagic has a very filmic look imho. I’ll probably Aquire some Sony FX cameras later on to compliment my BM cameras for documentary or Events. All cameras are just tools. There is no perfect camera.
Agreed. Just shooting a short on Venice 2, FX6 and Alexa classic (for flashbacks). Def just about going with the tool that works best for the job. Either Canon or Sony are great all rounders for video production. We still have the BMPCC 6k pro (it’s so good), just not the Ursa
