“You Have Absolutely ZERO Chance of Disrupting Camera Market Space” | Dragons’ Den 

Yes, it was awesome ;)

like a boss! and also i like Peter, but he was full of BS this time. It is an awesome idea.

@Joshua Langley German accent* Germanic is a language family which includes English, therefore even an English accent is a Germanic one. German however refers to the specific language/country. Subtle but big difference.

I loved that part! Good for him. Peter threatened and defensive. Unnecessary!

Is that why Peter told them their description of the quality of the lense wasn't accurate, because they weren't right?

He didn't got it spot on. He was talking that phones will not replace even entry level panasonic camera. Actually he was talking right opposite what you wrote.

@@MultiJejje He did get it spot on. You’re both right. He was saying they won’t disrupt the entry level camera space because people interested in photography will just buy one of those. He was also right by saying that phones will have this capability in the next year so anyone who upgrades their camera in the next few years will have no reason to buy one of these lenses. Essentially they have no market at all

The size of the lenses is not even comparable 😂

@@noir-13 No?

Yeh, but Moment lenses use the main iPhone camera and do provide much better image quality than the built in wide angle macro or tele lenses

a small minority does not disprove peter, it actually proves his point. Most people do go and buy the new phone when it comes out, otherwise they wont go and make a one every year and or several yearly.

Good point Kelvin.

Great point

@@zombie5017 I wouldn’t call it a majority. Certainly enough people upgrade to turn a profit and warrant producing and selling the new phones (and that profit is more consistent and competitive than making bigger upgrades less often) but I think the reason new phones are made yearly also means there’s a new product whenever a buyer is ready to upgrade, rather than that most buyers upgrade yearly. A company’s most recent device will be the most expensive of its type so if they released every 3 years let’s say, then someone ready to upgrade 2 years later would be picking between another company’s new device and a similarly priced 2 year old device. Companies just need to match competitors pace, it’s definitely not most people who upgrade every year. Although I agree with OP about non-upgraders so the product would still really struggle at its current price

They stopped producing in 2020.

The Galaxy 22S has 5 lenses.

@@GummyBearWA your comments sounds sarcastic if it was made on the early 2010’s lmao. How times have changed heheh

However, not all of the cameras on the back are made equal

I just love the way Germans speak in aggressive monotone… I won’t German at school and that’s probably one of the reasons that I want it because you can thanks so aggressive I’m just a couple of words

Even 6 now

Did she replace duncan??

@@lilzayzay66 No, she replaced Jenny

tbf. It is absolutely something I would be interested in and would buy. If it wasn't too expensive. Cheap cameras are just that - cheap. So to get a decent quality camera you would have spend spend around $1k . So to get that thing even for a 50$ is a good middle ground. If you don't want to invest in a quality or even a cheap camera.

Sorry, I disagree. I've taken photos on my smartphone which look tons better than my mate who has a 3 grand camera. They've been pictured in the local paper several times and people can't believe I've taken them on a smartphone - admittedly, I do use software to optimise them in post-production. You're right about sensor size, it continues to limit smartphone cameras, but I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before a combination of enhanced sensors and software overcome this. Once I'm able to zoom in on, and take a decent photo of the moon, it's game over for the lower-end of the semi/semi-pro camera market. Big up and respect tho - this is just my humble view ;)

Not everyone drinks champagne some people like chardonnay

The majority of people don’t buy expensive cameras. That is the point of the product

Even the latest and most expensive iPhone cannot match a decent mirrorless camera from ten years ago. Peter was right.

really weird, literally just had my iPhone 13 pro arrive 30 mins ago, this was the first RU-vid video I watched and this was the second comment I saw and I was thinking the exactly same thing 😂

@@matthoskins8605 Do you not find that slightly worrying!! Most ppl don't want upgrade, many on purpose for obvious reasons. "Smart" companies ? See Peter perspire, n defend too much.. pEAKED EVERYONE'S INTEREST!

@@Alexe829 people who don't frequently buy new phones usually won't be willing to shell out money for accessories either

@@Alexe829 the company went under

​@@farhanatashiga3721 KO no

Lol

Why? Do you know? I get curious about all these deals. It's very interesting. Some are very promising

@@sharkcode1because the product would have been useful 10 years ago before camera phones became so good. This product isn’t necessary when using modern phones

@@Bulskee thank you

Bruhs got a pic with Prince Andrew

He was absolutely right. Most phones come with wide angle and fish eye lenses anyway

@@averagegoslingenthusiast2033 No he was not, the biggest online sale websites such as Amazone are still selling a lot of these lenses and packages as Deborah had it right, not everybody changes their phone every time a new version comes out. There is still a huge market and if you see these latest lens packages they are really cool! The wide angel en fish eye built in cameras do not have the same quality range as some of these separate lenses in the market! World wide it is still a multi million market, so good for them if they still exist!

@@glizzforman8094 Who??

I'm still rocking my Note 8, @@colinmorsink9685

Because he has insider info that these two guys don't

@@Anon-qp3kt totally agree!!!

​@@Anon-qp3kt he did try to warn them to be fair

I find them both incredibly rude and at times bullying and obnoxious..... can't stand either of them

@@arthurkettle3010 i wouldn’t say that about deborah but definitely right about peter

@@arthurkettle3010 No, they're just honest and direct. I wish more people were like that instead of dancing around issues!

Peter is the most pickiest out of them all

@@arthurkettle3010 because you’re a snowflake. Can’t handle the truth?

The people who dont change out their phones every year or even every other year aren’t interested in this type of product from the start anyways. They don’t care to have supreme quality, whatever works is enough for those kinds of people

Like Peter said, they will sell some because people buy random trinkets. That’s the some he was talking about. So again, a race against time for them in their already limited market. It’s really not a valid point at all

In my experience there's two types of people. The type that only upgrade when necessary and those that upgrade every year because they want the newest tech, which would make these obsolete anyways. Obviously there are exceptions but my friends all fit smoothly into one of these categories. It's anecdotal but it's almost a 50/50 split in my group too. So there are tonnes of people who upgrade their phones at max every 2 years.

No one asked

Yeah and most likely they thought of the idea in 2017, made it in 2018

No one asked

FYI I didn't wipe thismorning and have been walking around with a dirty crack all day

This should’ve been a pitch from 2016 not 2020

You could say that about a lot of products. Doesn't mean it won't sell.

The concept...was good

the problem was apple and samsung just boosted their camera quality 10 fold within a few years of this. The company stood no chance from the getgo.

@@ΚωνσταντινοςΓ-ω6φconcept wasn’t new though I had one 8 years ago.

That's probably honestly what these are, I bet these are ordered wholesale from Chinese companies with their branding on it. This isn't a new idea by far

But you don't want to invest for ten times earnings when game is over in 2 years

Yeah but the people who won't spend money on phone upgrades won't usually spend $100-200 on phone accessories either.

the obvious win in every pitch is free advertisement and advise.

The obvious WIN is free advertisement and invaluable advice.

@@SuperJohnkimani why did you write two slightly different versions of the same comment? Haha

Same here and I second that

I bought one early 2020. Played with it for a month. Since then it's buried somewhere in my house

Yeah, but you bought them, that’s all that matters for their business 😉

@@TechGamesAU yep very true

@@TechGamesAU but from them or another company? I got an ad for those lenses a few weeks ago. Just checked Amazon. Doesn't look like their product. I'm not in Britain tough

German, what did you expect?

Most "entrepreneurs" are

​Germans are full arrogant

They wanted to come off confident I think.

One of those guys was on an equities desk in a bank in the city. He’s wealthy, intelligent, successful, and fully backed his product. I work on an FX desk and have actually spoken to Theo a few times and speak to people more successful, wealthy and ruthless than the dragons multiple times a week. It’s not arrogance, it’s directness. That’s just how these people speak

He has insider knowledge he didn't make a genius prediction

Because he has insider info that these two guys don't

I wish it would say what year this came out!

@@TaxingIsThieving yes, that would be a great addition the the beginning of the clips

@@Anon-qp3ktit was obviously gonna happen

@@TaxingIsThieving 2020, filmed in 2019

Same here. I love it but never figured out when to use it.

Very observant.

I think within that time frame the business would still have opportunities to flourish, although its current model probably would not last far into the future and is mostly only profitable short term.

Only in perfect lighting. Once the lighting is not perfect the image falls apart.

Balderdash!

You can’t replicate a real wide lenses is not an effect. However this gadget had no chance because of what Peter said

But he did say if you're travelling you don't want to carry a lot of crazy equipment around

You can always tell how old it is by the wrinkles on Deborah or Peter 😉

The episode was broadcast 29th March 2020, and probably filmed a couple months prior.

I saw that also :D

I dont get his suprise, they were desparate to get Deborah to match Tej's buy back offer, you don't do that if you dont want Deborah

Probably racists.

@@JaneDoe-ls6dg What a lazy bait!

@@tony16991 Nah, people use that all the time.

Well yeah, that's the European thing

Thanks for the update and it is not surprising

Big comeback incoming

@@BigChungusWhale LMAO

Were they swallowed by the collapse?

But is it as sharp as their lenses

@@manlykscorpa Yes the new cameras will do much better than their product. Inbuilt digital software will allow the phone to take much better images - my iPhone 13 pro takes amazing wide photos

Agree just got the same! Amazing picture quality !

@@olivernicoll6391 not everyone is as rich as you man

@@manwhotookatit5666 shush. most phones will have it in 5 years soon

He could have been more idle.

In Germany it's considered a compliment.

Imagine if his parents named his Tesla Boring

German

I think you'll find people who like photography use a camera because it can do so much more than a smart phone camera can. Thats it

Photographers use cameras because the ergonomics of a phone is atrocious.

@@benardo01 exactly; only reason why I keep dragging that heavy burden on my trips, not that I wouldn`t love if phones had those abilities and results

@@peterreber7671 they use a camera because of the configuration. If you can’t change the ISO/aperture/focus point or shoot in RAW it’s not as good. I’m aware some phones can do these things!

Not true.... A True photographer cares about the picture not the equipment

Lunch ruined

Hahaha

They sell it at about 30 to retailers, and that 60 includes taxes, so say 20% taxes, leaves the retailer with a margin of 20. the retailer needs to keep the lights on and pay employees from that money and everything other cost the business has. He probably has to sell it for around 40 to break even and not incur any losses. Just to put that whole thing in perspective. On the other hand, you see how much bigger the margins are when a manufacturer sells through their own platform. Of course in that case I’d not worry about any clearance sales, and even from retailers, hey, they wanna get rid of it, you’re not doing them any favours not buying it. And of course there’s other deals going on etc, the topic is too broad to sum up here. I just wanna get across that supporting a local store, if it’s a good one, is still worth it.

I think you mean, the profit margin is nuts. The overhead refers to the expenses of the business.

Depends on the product, and you socialists never consider all of the costs of doing business.

Here is my rebuttal to that. I think if you took this product and focused advertising and sales around vacation area's, it could be a decent sized business. The technical jargon does not really matter. I live in FL and i think if i took 500 of these to Clearwater beach during spring break, they'd all sell. I don't agree with Peter or his redundancy comment. Most people are not up to date on their equipment, in fact most people are going to be a couple generations behind and don't actually seek the latest and greatest. In other words, there's a huge market for redundancy.

@@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701 To be fair, if you want to sell a product you want it selling like hot cakes... so you would have the approach you describe to get rid of the stock before there is less demand for the product. If they priced the lens and case more realistically they would have a lot of sales. So many people (myself included) have tried much cheaper/tacky alternatives bought online in the past... this would stand up to scrutiny I would imagine, just not at that price point.

@@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701 Peter is correct. If the newer phones are getting this features I know as a consumer I might buy this for a year or so until I upgrade and I don't need it. The product is a gadget, something you buy because it seems cool but then don't touch again. You may sell 500 but how many will actually come back to either buy another one of look at your store and it being even more expensive reduces that chance

@@thebeatconnect1 He is only right in the fact that its not a long term thing. But they could easily have a company that could make millions for, lets say 5-8 years. If they could get it down to 20 bucks, they could flood the vacation spots with them and make plenty.

I hate taking my Sony’s on a trip. I actually just take my phone. They shouldve market it as “lightweight alternative”

I’m still using an iPhone 5SE 😂

I agree. It was a very good point. My first cellular phone looked like it was modeled after Maxwell Smart's "shoe phone. " It had an antenna that telescoped out and was the size and shape of a WWII walkie talkie. It worked fine until I could charge the battery any more after several years of use. The phone store people laughed when I came in and asked to purchase a new battery. Those batteries were no longer being made.

True but newer models come out every year. Part of the reason why smartphones introduces new software updates is so that people buy their newer phones. You can still use a Nokia 3310 but whatsapp are so prevalent nowadays that you just can't use them anymore

Peter was bang on these lenses could not touch any decent 200 quid camera and could not even exist in the space of any decent DSLR/mirrorless cameras.

If it was a threat he would have told otherwise and would have counter pointed that his company is developing a simillar tech but no He was right on the point of the camera the pair was pitching would get obsolete quicker with the pace phones are evolving in terms of camera tech

My guess is he saw the R&D on phones with extra lenses but was under NDA or something so he couldn't just warn with those details to the entrepreneurs and other dragons that they were already obsolete.

Peter has insider info. There's no way he hasn't been to the Apple and Samsung etc factories and not see the models being researched.

Well Peter knew it at the time

Definitely not nearly every phone has 2 lenses but most new phones do

The difference is these lenses are higher quality at producing either wide angle or telephoto images. They would work for someone with their phone but there is no way in this world even an amateur photographer like me would consider using it. The truth is that to get the best quality images in all types of light requires proper quality lenses with a lot of glass and there is no way to avoid that with our current technology.

The pitch was only from a year ago the fact that they thought this had any chance of being successful only a year ago is astounding

@@justhurricane5331 I use an external macro lens on my iPhone 12 Pro. The external lens does a fantastic job at reducing the focal length and bringing in additional light.

Yeah, a re-up load from like Monday or Tuesday.

I was expecting that before Peter even opened his mouth. these guy were naive "hey we are here to disrupt your business, wanna help us do that?" lol good luck

I don’t think he’s threatened at all. He’s exactly right. A £300, tiny point and shoot camera will outperform these comfortably and you can keep it now matter how many times you upgrade your phone.

@@yuppymike And you’d buy the camera while taking an extra burden of a gadget that you can easily break on your hiking trip? No thank you. Id rather reduce the burden than increase it

@@rajaqais6263 You have a higher chance of losing this attachment on your phone than breaking a camera. And Peter is absolutely right on the quality of the image. It would be like using a glass cup in front of your phone camera to widen the view. The phone sensor has no understanding of what is being sent via the camera lens. And it won't process it properly. A point and shoot sensor knows the lens it's working with. Same with high end cameras. Many of the new phones came with a new wide angle lens to offer this. So anyone with a new Samsung or iPhone will have these obselete. And any mid range phones are low in quality on photos that they won't care about shooting wide angle shots.

@Raja Qais You’d rather risk your $1000 iPhone over a $300 camera? Probably the biggest plus to a seperate camera, is the battery life on smart phones even today is terrible, and it will go long long flat while the camera will keep going

Niche reference

Rory has a ONE HUNDRED percent chance of dirsupting the seaweed hunting market on the pristine beaches of northern Scotland #teamrory

My samsung also has it.. i think most phones have one now

But you get telephoto and wide angle lenses on phones nowadays

This has been around since iPhone 4

Yes, we are sending our Floridamen wearing cowboy hats and riding crocodiles to invade. Hopefully they are prepared.

@@crazychris1123 no one could ever be prepared for that

yeah it seems sketch bunch of lairs much? lol

@@thedeep3759 Actually they went out of business

Camera lens.

Just get a Huawei p30 pro. It's got 50x zoom on it

@@shush97 50x isn't high enough I'm talking about micro photography not macro. I also don't use Huawei. For perspective my microscope is 40x-2000x and I routinely work between 500x-1800x. Right now it's all a trade-off between weight, image magnification & image quality as well as cost. Something that would be able to maintain the high quality image at high magnification for low weight at consumer pricing would be a game changer. Otherwise your looking at heavy camera equipment that's 1000 dollars plus just to get started, or you have to take specimens back to the lab or have a mobile lab unit. Having an attachment kit capable of high quality magnification would reduce alot of labour. The problem is so far “phone microscopes” ( not to be confused with lens adapters that let you mount your phone on your scope ) tend to be cheap pieces of crap that don't work well or produce a good enough quality image. They'll advertise 500-2000 but the images will be rough at best and they break really ( really) easy. Which isn't something you want if you're a hundred miles in the middle of old growth forest going over rough terrain lol.

It’s not. They are just framing it that way. They get their money back, plus interest, the equity is a bonus for what basically ends up being a loan.

My thoughts exactly!!