How terrible to wake upp five hundred years after your own death and learn that your bloodline is all dead. And that the world you fought for in life is gone.
1:26 So placing the Heart back alone isn't enough. The Wraith Blade has to come out and help. I like to think the Blade is low-key manipulating its past self and those around them to make sure Kain and Raziel would fulfill their true destinies and finally beat the Elder. It may be deranged, but it should still retain its knowledge, memories of the past, and perhaps desire to make things right.
I think you are correct. Not only did it heal Janos... but Kain ad well. As the Reaver was purified by Spirit, imagine then what it did to Kain. I firmly believe Janos was right. Raziel did save the vampire race. Through Kain. By healing him from the curse of the Hylden.
@@PsychoticLuke On the multiple occasions where the Reaver tried to consume Raziel into the physical blade, it didn't feel like an act of malice, but... imagine you were going insane, losing your mind. But you had something important you had to remember, one crucial thought that needed to be there no matter what. And so you repeat it, over and over again, like a mantra that stays with you even as you lose yourself. "I must make my other self enter the blade."
Though even then, I wonder. Would it be possible to restore Raziel from the wraith-blade form, eventually? When his purpose as the wraith-blade has run its course, would it not be possible for one to find it in the Spectral Realm, and attempt to purify it with Spirit? His imprisonment is unavoidable, yes. But when history has run its course, when his part has been fully played out, what is there to say that his imprisonment would be permanent? After all, we see the Reaver's physical form shatter against Raziel, releasing the maddened wraith-blade to be bound to its former self.
GmodPlusWoW, maybe. But without the paradox that prevented Raziel from returning to the wheel of fate before entering the Reaver, he would not be immortal.
@@GmodPlusWoW raziel & the soul reaver's cyclical destiny hinges on three major events: 1.the blood reaver is joined with the wraith blade & consumes raziel's soul in its insatiable hunger 2.the reaver is used to try to kill it's parallel self prematurely & shatters from the first paradox and finally 3. raziel draws up the blood reaver, only for his wraith blade to fuse with it, finally locking in the cycle. There is no real hope to restore raziel after the fusion because his soul must be there in the reaver to become the wraith blade at the time of the shattering. even if it was plausible, how easy is it to mold life-force into an inhabitable form?
@@GmodPlusWoW Raziel became the wraith blade due to the madness caused by centuries of imprisonement, that made him lose self consciousness. If Kain accomplishes his mission in a short time, and then destroys the the Soulreaver i think that what will come out of it would be Raziel, and not the wraith blade.
@@GmodPlusWoW I don't think there is. When Kain stopped Raziel''s soul from entering the Reaver at the end of SR2 he stole the original Blood Reaver, before it became the Soul Reaver by imprisoning Raziel. So long as he keeps the Reaver, there is no way for for Moebius to cause the first Paradox with William the Just, which derails everything. At some point, Kain needs to return the sword to before William's demise to complete the cycle so Moebius can give it to William, if he doesn't William never gets the Reaver handed to him by Moebius, thus Kain can't change history by killing him. Raziel never gets the chance to repair the Reaver in SR2 because William never died (if he even came back in time with Kain at all) and cause the 2nd paradox Kain never gets the chance to pick up the Reaver in BO1 (since Moebius didn't have the repaired version of it to leave for Kain to find) Kain never gains the knowledge of how the Reaver can change history since, he isn't able to/never does change history by martyring William since neither of them have the Reaver. The only reason he travelled back to the past was because Moebius manipulated him to change history, which he can't without it. Nosgoth falls at the hands of the Nemesis and thus Kain dies since without the Reaver there's no way for Moebius to change the timeline and thus a reason to leave Kain the time streaming device for him to escape and change the past. Even if somehow Kain were to escape this fate, there is no reason to think he wouldn't still refuse the sacrifice and found his empire, since he's incapable of completing his destiny because Nuprator's madness infecting him at birth. Thus he never had the Reaver to break it over Raziel, or even a reason to raise him, since having never encountered it, would have never understood the significance of the Reaver and only raised Raziel because he knew he would be trapped in the Reaver and able to change history. Even if did, so he couldn't have travelled back in time to bait Raziel into causing the 2nd paradox, since not only would he have no reason to (not having the knowledge or ability to change history) but also because without the Reaver, the 2nd paradox can't happen and the Elder Kain would die there, and thus isn't able to save Raziel and steal the Blood Reaver in the time of the Sarafan. I do see one way out for Raziel, but I would see it as bad writing. One of the underlying themes of LoK is the world decays because of self-righteousness and vengeance and no one wants to be the better man and show understanding or sacrifice for the greater good. The Hylden (who I would wager did something to spark the war) cause the curse and seek eternal revenge, Janos and the Vampires opt to banish them eternally out of zealotry and vengeance, the Sarafan and the humans engage in genocide only to be laid low by the vampires they tried to wipe out and vice versa with Vorador and of course, Kain refuses the sacrifice and damns the world. The only deeds that cause even a slight bit of hope in Nosgoth are those done with noble intentions and by casting aside personal desires for the greater good. Like Mortanius setting Kain to cleanse the Pillars offering a chance in the first game to heal Nosgoth after putting aside his ignorance for the vampires and his own life for the greater good, Kain discarding his empire, knowing he still may end up dying a fruitless death in an attempt to fix things and of course, Raziel who despite knowing his destiny, embraces it to give Kain and chance to defeat the Elder God. Having him returned to life, would cheapen that sacrifice.
isn't it a paradox,Raziel ripped Janos heart,now he returns it,great i love this act of a working piece of mind,working over the plot,oooh i dont find words to express myself,just great!
For Raziel to free himself, he should have severed the head of his Sarafan self and cast it deep into the abyss. With no head, his corpse could not have been ressurected by kain and thus he would have remained dead and the paradox would have ended.
He couldn't do anything further if even if he tried since his reaver self tried to force him into the physical blade immediately after the killing blow. And Kain wouldn't be able to destroy Raziel's corpse I think since you can only force a paradox at very specific times.
I remember... It's what he says when he is alive again. Such esoteric dialogues, they are so meaningfull, each phrase carefully thought. It's incredible how the message of the ancients books it's so cryptically transmitted. It's crazy
13 лет назад
@yurikatos Its not even a paradox, it's just a time travelling heart. Just the way there are two Kains in the world as the same time.
@yurikatos They do return, actually. In Defiance, Raziel's story takes place 500 years after this (around the time of Blood Omen 1) as he languished in the Spectral Realm for that period, and Kain, about 2/3 of the way through the game, follows the Elder God's instructions and re-joins Raziel in that time. Defiance ends just after Blood Omen 1 ends, if you look at the whole series on a timeline. 2 'levels' before the end of the game, we see the outcome of Kain's choice at the end of BO1.
I wonder where the hell he's been keeping the heart all this time... He just kinda reaches off-screen and there it is. The guy doesn't have a pocket to save his life.
@Joudas Dude, remember there are two Kains around by the end of Defiance. The old one doesn't have the Heart of Darkness (he brought from the future) anymore. Janos, at this point, is being raised with this oldest version of his heart; while the young Kain has recently been raised from death with the Heart of Darkness the Sarafan took from Janos 500 years earlier. They are both using two versions of the same artifact, each belonging to different points of history. And so happens in Blood Omen 2.
but it seems moebius, elder god and vorador knew of raziel's dual purpose - redeemer and destroyer. at the beginning of SR2, moebius greets raziel as 'redeemer and destroyer, pawn and messiah', impliying he knows of raziel's dual character. also, elder god's dialog in the spirit forge indicates he also knew of this. finally and most surprisingly, when raziel meets vorador in defiance for first time, vorador says 'it seems you've chosen your path'. did he also know of raziel's duality?
@yurikatos Um... the whole central story point in Blood Omen 2 is that Janos was raised (at the end of Defiance, with the Heart, by Raziel) and possessed by the Hylden Lord as the 'incorruptable vessel' that could sufficiently power The Device. Janos is very much alive in Blood Omen 2. Defiance (when Janos was raised by Raziel) happens after SR2 (when Sarafan Raziel took the Heart) - his resurrection happens shortly before the destruction of the pillars (End of BO1 on the timeline).
@lavaking No sir, it is not, in fact most of us disagree about Defiance's Kain seems to be weaker than blood Omen 2's Kain (in powers, but in appearance the Defiance's one looks like a badass ^_^) in blood omen 2 you more power to use. that's all
Hot damn, Janos is more handsome than I could've imagined. That is one magnificent body he's got there. :P If only poor Raziel couldn't reached that stage of incredible beauty. lol.
"Legacy of Kain" is simply the name of the series. Even the Soul Reaver games, in which you didn't play as Kain at all, were still "Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver".
@yurikatos You seem to be forgetting a key point - the heart was used to raise Kain, but Raziel tore it from Kain's chest (in Defiance) and used it to raise Janos.
Another question is brought to my consideration... Janos seemed pretty astonished when seeing the spectral Reaver Raziel wields, making a yet cryptic reference to the Dark Prophecy (of which we might yet have a better understanding if the game of the same name is actually released as intended) Is is that Janos did not know that the Reaver could have a spectral form? or is it that he was just confused as for the true nature of Raziel's role? If he was not supposed to wield such weapon...
He knew Raziel is supposed to in some form Wield the Reaver, in SR2 he tries ot offer him the Blade ignorant he was already wielding it(if you notice in the scenes raziel never actually manifested the reaver in Janos presence before this)
there is no confusion. the forges perhaps were created long before janos was born. the earliest ancients knew that only one man would be both the redeemer and destroyer, and the forges were indeed created for the spectral blade. but as janos said, he misread the signs, he thought that the vampire saviour could only brandish the material reaver. only after seeing raziel with his spectral blade, he became clear that indeed raziel is both the 'redeemer and destroyer'.
He truly believed the Destroyer was Raziels Sarafan Counterpart, and the Redeemer was Raziels Vampire self that carried the Reaver sword and sought to Undo all the Damage done and bring Salvation to the Vampire race.
kain used his own soul to raise the raziel and his brothers, however i thought about kain hasn't evolved any longer after raziel's exeution. A) because he cannot evolve any longer or he did but not physically, B) he traveled in time from raziel's execution to his return C) and less likely he didn't evolved at all but his sons did and he never executed them as he did with raziel when he evolved before him
Raziel's Arc in LoK is mostly concluded any potential continuation to the story only involves Kain, it woudl both take a massive asspull and completely destroying previously buitl narrative ot bring Raziel back(not ot mentuion his voice actor Michael Bell is already in his eighties)
@NessDark yes you're right, "the incorruptible vessel", i forgot the hylden escaped with his body, well, it's like he is dead to me =P.... but he was revived with the heart of thousand years beyond, the one used by kain, it is his heart but at the same time it is not... well the issue was about someone saying that is mistake from the game developer wich is not the case, is a paradox created on purpose...and so.....thanks for the explanation of "facepalm"
And actually, to be fair, you play as Kain more - it alternates, starting with Kain, going to Raziel in the next level, and back again, et cetera - but it starts with Kain and ends with Kain, therefore there's 1 extra Kain level.
@Joudas yeah, that's right...but you said to @carnesaur "paradoxically, they both do" in fact, that''s why a discuss, I think @carnesaur doesn't remember or desn't know that after soul reaver, thousands years later of blood omen 2, they went back in time, if that so of what you said, you just should tell that in Soul Reaver 2, both kain and Janos have the "same" heart, the fact is one is from the very future and the other one is in the present in soul reaver 2
@yurikatos He was given the heart by Mortanius, when he was assassinated, and reborn as a vampire. Janos was still dead by that time, and the heart Raziel had given back to him was Millenniums older, as it was taken from future Kain. Doesn't seem to be too much of a paradox.
@Mortainius88 It's explained as being the corruption Kain bares as a result of Nupraptor's insanity. When he creates vampire spawn, the curse transfers to them, manifesting in different ways as they evolve. The ancient vampires didn't have the corruption, so they didn't 'evolve' so horridly.
@yurikatos I understand that, but in SR2, Raziel kills himself as a Sarafan priest. That should tell you something. Anything they do would be part of the actual timeline. They were meant to mess with certain events, and not others. That's why you don't see Kain facing himself. That paradox is moot in the series.
@afterlifeavenger yes I agree with you, in LOK it's valid...like I said, my previous comments were to the people who thinks that it is a mistake and they didn't notice that it was meant to be like this
I don't know how many times I've watched this scene since the game's release, but only now, almost two decades later, do I notice the Reaver is what makes the resurrection work. So that said, is Kain's revival related to that? Is he bound to the final soul reaver, the heart, or both? Kinda thought the Pillars might have raised him somehow. Hmm.
The corrupted soul of Kain was stuck to his body even after death. When Raziel used the Spirit Forge, he called all souls of past Balance Guardians, including that of Kain. So, his body awoke in response.
@afterlifeavenger In reality is a paradox that there's to people, ore things in two places at the same time, it's just definition, and if you face each other the time could be destroy..that's way is a paradox..on porpuse but a paradox...but some people says that this was a mistake from Eidos..sort of those things, that they didn¡t think of that..read from the begining....and don't give the crap from the movie "the one" with jet li, they're from diferent dimensión, they are not the same person
Tony Jay passed away(Elder God, Mortanius) Michael Bell(Raziel) is already in his eighties, if he's not retired he might not be in shape to do more voice work
@carnesaur I think the LoK fan community pretty much regards Blood Omen 2's story as a big mistake.
13 лет назад
@yurikatos "Facepalm" = "Poner la palma de la mano sobre la cara en señal de incredulidad". Dude! You are the one saying that Janos is dead in BO2! which he is not.
Why then, there are forges to imbue the reaver with elemental powers? Were those forges originally created for the material blade? It does not seem probable. The ancients created those forges... so they HAD to know there was going to be a blade they could be used with. If Janos ignored the existence of a Spectral Reaver, then that might be a crack in the plot... D.R.
u know what i noticed i just beat sr2 and the unlocked art showed the guardians of the reaver elemental forges and what they looked like alive. They look hylden they dont have wings and the girls have green hair so maybe vampirs dint know about the spirit reaver
@Joudas false my friend, in blood omen 2 Janous is dead !!! remember that the heart of janous was taken in soul reaver 2, when Raziel meets his former self, that was many many many many many years agoooo ! like 500, and when Kain was revive into a vampire, "they" (don't remeber who, long ago) implanted the heart of Janous within him..clear ??
14 лет назад
no.. since the reaver kain has is just the blood reaving vampiric blade
In the beginning, everytime I run down that path, the game camera is NEVER behind me, it is always faceing the front of me. My game has ALOT of glitches. :(
