Borderlands 2: Stop Wasting Skill Points 

So here is a moral of the story, at the beginning of the video you had like 1620 smg ammo, by at the end you have 172. This is why the sandhawk should be counting its blessing for the massive smg ammo cap, the pitchfork of smgs.... With Bekah you start with 1200+ and you end with 1000+.

(reads title) Don't tell me what to do.

But cloud kill is OP you just don't know it yet!

Thanks for the tip. I took 4 points out of Mind's Eye and Accelerate (which aren't THAT great of bonuses, and are +5 by Legendary Cat AND Siren anyway) and took a few points out of Quicken to spec into Life Tap, Scorn, and Elated (was already into sustenance). Really happy to have Scorn, as any extra skill/melee override makes the characters more fun to play.

A "this is how i'd setup as to not waste skill points" following this would have been helpful

Awesome video Derch. Couldn't agree more. Can't remember the last time I BeeHawked. I rarely use the Cat Com and if I do its usually with Tattlers. Survivability is the key word. And Maya's healing skills are great. Every build I do with her I always find myself making it down to Scorn (which I love)

This is a thing Sljm and I have tried repeatedly to pound into Sal player's heads: There is a big difference between "Maximum DPS" and "Optimum DPS" Sometimes, more damage does not help. Salvador players are just as guilty of this as Maya players.

I'd still spec into accelerate, sandhawk's bullet speed is too slow for me.

Here's the basics of this video, as it seems to have gone clean over a lot of people's heads. What he's trying to say is, why use wreck or minds eye if you're just going to bee-hawk everything, which is already massive overkill? Personally I'd say keep wreck and minds eye if A: you plan on not constantly using the bee shield, or B: you plan on farming bosses or loot midgets or something. Also Derch just for future reference, I'd say be a bit less blunt with your points. It seems 75% of the hate this video got was people who seem to think you were calling them stupid.

7:10 Thrill of the Kill on Mania tree, D. Nice video as always D.

4:25 “ how did i heal there” BECAUSE YOUR HOLDING THE GROG DUH THATS THE REASON YOU PULLED IT OUT. 😂

I tend to use the normal Maya setup and use the Antagonist for mobbing and the Bee on Bosses.

People really make this game sound harder than it is. Ive never used somebody elses build, I use what I find fun. I hear so much about UVHMs difficulty...Meh. Its challenging, not really hard. You just have to play a little safer, thats all. UVHM finally gave me a reason to use sniper rifle with Maya. Normal and TVHM I went through with under leveled Bitch. Sandhawk/Bee I use only when farming bosses, for quick kills. And yes, why is everyone and their mother playing with same builds? Norfleet might kill stuff fast, but man is it boring to play like that.

Well i mean i have 10/5 in most of the skills and depending on situation use bee yet i still have pretty much all healing skills that are good for solo play aswell as almost all right side skills and most of the first half left side

Im using scorn, ruin, cat,bee, most healing skills, sandhawk, moxxis good touch, pimpernel and norfleet. Im also 5/5 for most damage skills. Would you consider thay to be overkill?

I spec into all the skills boosted by the Cat COM but I use a Legendary Siren, IMO the best base legendary COM, though I carry a Cat and all this other equipment for raiding because Maya.

for solo play I agree with that for the most part. to regen health I usually use corrosive cloud with a ruby to gain all of my life back.

Is like Fibber + Bee for Gaige... You dont need to use a BoA or a Legendary Anarchist or match the element or even aiming at something except the floor... Anarchy is just a bonus on top of that.

when specing in the hellborn tree I never spec fully into the first two skills

I use grog fire and corrosive hawks and norfleet with antagonist with storm front switching out my com from legendary cat to siren depending on map and fire bone of ancients

Great advice here. Unfortunately a lot of people do not have all that fancy gear, so they need the extra damage from the skills. I do own a sandhawk, so I will try this out.

but, if you're actively leveling and have under leveled gear, these skills make your gear last longer until you get more

I do support for my classes sense I play split screen with an assassin (I don't use assassin but I loved Gladiator on Pre Sequel) so if I use, uh, my Mechromancer's DT I'll make sure it's all about Damage and I'll support both it and Zero. (I prefer DT over turrets, well only one turret)

I have a hybrid build I have some points into that mod but I also have points is other skills that are boosted by my class mod and it works out pretty good for mobbing and raid bossing so I don't have to constantly wast money on respecing my skill points. i run legendary cat I run legendary siren and I run legendary nurse so I never have to reset my skill points

I get your point and I do agree with most you said in this vid. But when you are mobbing with Maya DON'T use a Beehawk!!! Banshee Maya is the best for mobbing in my mind. Now that cloud kill is buffed you just have to hold the grog, a slagga and Norfleet or other high damage Launcher for second wins. Maybe a DPUH is nice, too. When you are against loaders you just need a Magic Missile and a Grog. Cloud kill is doing the rest.

Honestly I've been running Harold and grog on every character I've played. I have OP8 gunzerk. Krieg and gaige. I don't want to rely on them anymore. Where do I got to learn each character? Builds guns etc.

When you get to reset them for a modest fee at any quick-change station? Where's the waste?

This video is hilarious on the auto playlist feature right before this video killer six with touting the very build this video is cramping on with logic

Honestly I hate using the Bee, but it feels like in OP 10 we have to use all the best weapons (slag, bone, cat, bee and match elements) Like maybe, I don’t have to match elements mobbing but mini bosses are almost necessary

i dont really purposefully have 10/5 on all Legendary Cat skills, but 4/5 of them are very much worth having on any Maya build. Immolate, Backdraft and Blight Phoenix are pointless to me as you want to keep a distance between you and the enemy with your Bee, and those skills are more for really close range combat. also, they are essentially useless on Fire Skags and Loaders. get either 4 or 5 points on Sweet Release with the thought of getting Mind's Eye a point for the class mod buff, get Wreck and maybe Res if you're a team player and keep 4 on Flicker. if solo, spend the point on Flicker. dont need Kinetic Reflection or Thoughtlock, but get everything else in that tree with the exceptions being 2 points each in Ward and Inertia as they are slightly lesser needed but useful skill. and dont bother getting down to Skorn as Ruin works just as well, and if need be just use the Grog.

Thanks. I've applied this to Gaige as well. Unless it's a raid boss I don't use the bee. Learned to play with the skills than use thecrutches people keep saying you need

What are the important things to have on a lvl 51 maya going into UVHM? Ruin and Converge? Or would you go for lifetap first and use a wormhole nade?

But a lot of Maya's healing skills are for co-op or they benefit from phaselock so when fighting larger enemies healing skills are useless regardless of whether you're using the grog nozzle or not

yeah for mobing you better go more phase lock, self heal, and shield recharge... i usully go with a chain reaction build.... i never use cat for mobing, legendary siren is enough or a chain reaction buffing blue or purple class mod, but i just cant give up on that sweet 45% movement speed buff while phaselock is active. my items are prety trash but its enough for mobing, a fire sandhawk with the worst parts u can immagine, but i usualy use a Moxxi fire smg, wich she gives if you tip her enoug, an electric pitchfork, and a random vladaf corrosive ar... tho with a shit inventory like this i need a bit dmg boost... but slag from phaselocks are more than enough... but this is just for mobing and against mini bosses you can phaselock.

What happens when ur against enemies who shoot bullets. Once that bee goes down it's a different story.

I refuse to touch the fibber, bee and sandhwak because they are gamebreakingly overpowered. There is no challenge when you use them

i actually agree with you man

I'm trying maya for the first time. Right now she just hit level 50. I am using some of the skills you said not to invest. Is this build you have viable for no bee builds, no cat builds or no smg builds? I kind rely on reaper.

im using bitches or tattler + cat com + bone (shock and coro only has the fire one don't want to drop) but i only use the bee for raid boss most of the time i have antagonist (with the ski) or sham (the two of them do very well with kinetic reflection) or evolution depend on where i'm playing

Very interresting good job

Its more of a waste to use healing skills though cause as you said, raid bosses you will want that insane dmg. Plus your not specced into recompense so thats a massive mistake. If you slag an enemy and they hit you, they heal you. You dont gotta worry about using a healing specific weapon. Plus why on earth would anyone use a chain lightning on maya if they are worried about healing? You have a magic missile that keeps nade ammo regen up and slag on the battlefield. This makes hp regen absolutely invalid cause than you never need to respec for raid bosses. And if your really worried about survival, you can simply take off your bee and use the antagonist to help slag enemies. And still have crazy damage output. The antagonist will also slag enemies which also heals you if they shoot you because of recompense.

Hey Derch, something i wanted to ask for a while now: Why do you chose Immolate over Blight Phoenix? I know you mention barrels, but i find in most case these aren't a concern (due to phaselock and quasar having passed ahead of me). And i find that BP coupled with Life Tap gives me a lot more survivability (since melee range is the trickiest for Maya in absence of skills for it). Using a tattler/twister based legensary siren my guess is that the reason is that I use the Evolution instead of the Blockade. Talking strictly mobbing, btw. Ps. Pre-patch i agree with you, post patch not so much. Pps. The main reason i wanted to ask because it contradicts all your going on about anything that's fight for your life improving (and the Phoenix often prevents going down in the first place).

The years 2019 and the commander Lilith dlc comes out skill points are not more because you get 72

since last ps4 patch if you run this route with 2 players you get a tubby every time.

What if there was an animal in real life called the beehawk

Maya is meant to be a support\healer, no other character has the healing skills like Maya; take advantage of it.

Sandhawk is Great but the Lascaux and the Bitch are great alternatives

You're bee dependent with that. And take cloud kill. It help for regen health.

At 4:30 the dots from Ruin were healing you when you had the grog nozzle out. Not to defend this build too much, but you didn't point out that phaselock is also an insta heal when you have a grog nozzle out, and it can heal you for awhile with the dots from ruin. I do agree that bee hawking with such a build on general mobs is kind of pointless. In fact I'd go as far as to say using a beehawk in most general mobbing cases is harder because you have to be really careful not to get hit. I usually use a build similar to what you described, but instead I use an Antagonist or Blockade with a Hyperion plasma caster of the proper element as a primary weapon instead of the bee and sandhawk. I usually only switch to the bee during boss fights or when some of the tougher badass enemies appear. I find this to be more effective than beehawking everything because for the most part you still do plenty of damage, and with those tanky shields you don't need to worry about avoiding damage nearly as much which in general lets you kill things faster even without healing skills. Also I'd say not using sub sequence benefits a build like this a lot more because you get phaselock back much faster. If you make good use of phaselock with cover and have a lot of phaselock cooldown then I found you rarely need to use chain lightnings because phaselock alone does a really good job of healing you. Honestly the grog nozzle with phaselock and chain lightning does make most of the healing skills irrelevant. That's the main thing I disagree with you on in this video. If you make good use of cover using the play style I described you will almost never need healing skills. It seems like it's more of a waste of points to get healing skills when the grog nozzle exists.

Id just spec for the hardest content in the game.

when your playing on op8 you need that overkill. and you just stated that we shouldnt ignore the healing skills maya has to offer but your doing just fine without them. no point in putting points into healing if dot damage surpasses it when yoru trying to take cover. doesnt heal fast enough even with the lifesteal you can get. this is where grognozzle comes in. when your out of smg ammo and need to rely on another gun. thats where the overkill comes in

Most people don’t want to respec just for bosses in the time of this video. Modern day with lvl 80 OP 10 the damage is also needed

But I want to, the 12% risk feels like 40% but it’s worth it!

Nice video

I feel like there are many people which dont understand what he wanted to say/show

How I play -if that skill is offensive focus on turret, I put my point on it.

Your point about the Cat setup being bad for mobbing is redundant tbh, in Digi peak I only swap to the Cat COM to burst down the mini-bosses, I think most people know by now that Legendary SIREN is the superior mobbing COM. 10/5 in Ward gives your bee shield an INSANE amount of uptime, and against most enemies in the peak Maya gets better use out of the Bekah - super underrated, Phaselock makes it better for Maya than AXTON, as you can easily line up perfect (crit with all 4 projectiles, which is all about positioning) shot and spam it. Sub-Sequence is also dope for mobbing. I rarely find myself needing Scorn, with Ruin and a x4 Magic Missile (MM and Chain Lightning both regenerate grenades so it's super easy to use both). Life Tap is god-tier while it's active since even 1% lifesteal means a full HP bar whenever you're shooting, but it being a kill skill SEVERELY limits it, lifesteal is meant to be reliable. I'd take LT all the time if it was a normal skill, even if they nerfed the healing to balance it out.

How do I get different elements on the samdhawk

I don't think this is a waste. There are maps with certain type of enemies that you need to kill quick. And even with Bee but without boosted skills you will have really hard time with them. Try Magic Slaughter Badass Round with this and you'll see how much those boosted skills are needed. Boosted skills are required to be maxed with or without the Bee.

I love ur commentary and ur voice but u shouldnt do long breaks cuz i can hear u breathing! Any way keep it up !!

I like what you said here and I really understand your reasoning pretty good video but do you have to respect before you go do any raidng or raid bosses

The only time you should "waste" skill point on Maya is when you put that 1 point in to Blight Phoenix for the WINGZ. Then again, it's not really "wasting" because it is actually the most important skill to be a respectable Maya player.

My maya is a almost a WHOLE support (made also for solo) build so i dont do the greatest damage but the class requires legendary nurse, grog (self healing), harold(for when down), any prefered sheild(preferably bee/or sham depending on area(via gun infested area run sham or if filled with melee enemies run bee) and i spec in to mostly mid tree half of left and right, i spec into right so i do some extra dmg,i spec into mid to for the support part, heres the thing tho when im low on health I swap to grog and and i phaslock and i instantly gain all hp, while im in phaselock animation i shoot scorn instantly (which also heals me) then all surounding mobs are pulled in and slagged and raise fire with my team or solo(if done solo i use a cc) and if we kill the phaselocked enemy we get 10 health orbs which heals the players, hence the name support build. But most the time im solo the build is kinda pointless, so that is why i spec into some of the right which give me extra different elemental damages to help me kill.

You sound like a disappointed father explaining to your child why they're wrong

How did you get so many sandhawks good sir?

does this aplly to farming for items and gear because i want to kill that 1 boss quicly

You should make one of these post patch...because cloud kill is fucking nuts now

"Skill hawking" is what i call bee hawking, and in a sarcastic manner before people get confused and think that i believe bee hawking requires skill

im not hating but this entire set up for mobbing depends on you having you bee shield up. when you're bee went down you did very little damage tho.

My feeling is that Gearbox tuned skills so that in order to beat OP8, it wasn’t necessary to spec into most of the damage skills. They want us to have fun and flavorful builds, too. That’s why I often spec into skills that others aren’t too hot on. I like the fun, flavor, and I’m still progressing just fine. 5 out of 5 Meteor Slam, and a Com for more ranks. Come at me, bro ;)

I like my damage build...But it's for Krieg and Salvador.

I know this video is old as balls, but it is so hilarious to hear you talk about killing stuff to easy....and that you think that is bad. It is called a glass canon build. All the damage all the time and learn to survive. The faster you can kill 1 enemy the faster you can focus the next and mob at super fast speeds. But if you play the long game of waiting outside the enemies view and play like a sniper then ya I can see your point. Also you tend to shoot way more ammo and times than you need to with the sand hawk trying to show how bad the ammo problem is.....most of the enemies would be one taps with the B up.

I hate all of Maya fire based skills but I just put 4 points in blight Phoenix to get to ruin

i run fleet maya for mobbing.

I would never go a pure mobbing build, whats the point in mobbing? The only things you can farm while mobbing are some special/underrated/weak legendaries and (using the community patch) the uniques and of course pearls. While "mobbing" I personally use an all-round build which allows me to use different weapons and at least two of my favorite classmods, it at least being moderately good against bosses and great at mobbing. This build is never dependent on the bee but in most cases, it can profit from it. The exception being everything I play as ZERKER [Gunzerker; OttoGaigeZERKER, and similar builds]. No, I don't even use the Sandhawk often (I don't like it and it only gives one bee proc now)

while i agree to a certain extent, you can quite easily get used to the "glass" playstyle and never go down - even without healing skills. i'm not trying to discredit you, but 1life was completed without healing skills at all.

To all of the points in the video I just think "Uhh... No?"

derch i got my own personal skill tree i use for everything cause i don't like having to reset it evertime i wanna go farm raid bosses or go mob enemies. its annoying when someone says *dragons? lemme reset my skill tree* bloodshots? lemme reset my skill tree* its dumb and time wasting i have a own personal skill tree wich helps in everyway i need it to help. right now i am using youre twisted pimp build for some testing so if you ever want a new skill build try mine just message me ^.^

well i guess if you like to run around Mobbing all the time, this would be a good build.

Hmm it okay 👍🏽 👌🏾 🙆🏻‍♂️ 😅

why u dont try pyro pete with this build

What gun is that?

Just started playing a couple months ago, 1st and 2nd playthroughs were fun, but UVHM is awful and not fun, and now too pwerful for TVHM to be fun.

you don't really demonstrate the power of the com or the sandhawk when you are using a bee which is a terrible mobbing shield, enemies melt down with any gun if you are wearing a bee, problem is, so will you. you need some points in damage if you are going to use a legitimate shield, also if you intend to use any other smg than the sandhawk or the tattler you really will need a good amount of points in damage.

This really just shows how stupid the bee shield really is. It was a poorly designed shield that became a crutch for most builds, and a ton of people use it to solo content that was not meant to be done solo. I think its fine to be able to do raid bosses solo, but not when its as easy as putting on a bee shield.

Anyone who uses a bee for mobbing is doing it wrong, good video Derch.

In my opinion there's no point to mobbing there usually just annoyance while your trying to somewhere else where there is something better to do.

I agree, but I get them big numbahs and thats what its all about Keepo

the thing is I like overkill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

something strange build. if you focus on damage, where is reaper, accelerate and wreck? and that's why i don't like sand hawk. yes, i don't "the best" SMG. bullets are slow, trajectory is curvy. you shoot good with sand hawk maybe it needs some time to adapt to it. but for me it's something awful especially in everyday "mobbing". you shoot at middle range and enemy is not here when bullets are there. it's disgusting!! i'm sure that mobbing will be much easier with that build using bitch/hellfire/avenger/florentine/plasma caster etc. straigh-firing is better crowd-control in mid-high distance, easier to crit, easier to switch target than with such strange smg like sand hawk. and for heal. switching to healing weapon is not very comfortable often. better use kiss of death/o-negative or other transfusion grenade. and yes, some points to sweat release maybe other healing skills is good help. you don't have to zero all heal skills. this build is very unbalanced and strange for me.

So let me get this straight, damage is a waste, healing is a waste, shields are worth it... but you equip The Bee. And you put this theory to the test by killing skags in a wide open area; take i to the bar brawl and then we can talk.

I don't like playing bee becauase i prefer to be in the fight.

I got here trying to figure out if if you have a skill at 9/5 is that a bigger boost or are you wasting 4 skill points. xD My current Maya build is all about the self healing

yo but the problem with this is that you're basically 100% reliant on the bee. i see the point trying to be made here, but this build has no purpose but to show a particular point that the bee is op in combination with sandhawk. you technically don't need to place any points or even be wearing a COM so why not make a video about that... just put the points in the damage skills so you can change your gear out depending on the situation-- this isn't utilizing maya's "all-around" ability that the character class has.

Most people play online so you would actually need the extra damage, but yeah its overkill for single player.

Acts like he knows what's up. Has a hard time in one of the easiest areas in the game. Right...

Me im gaige I don't need slag weapons she has slag skill + antagonist always slag + healing skill + healing skill boost mod = you will never see fight for your life ever. + i can use bone shredder high accuracy cause of mod. If I use the bee I'll die worst shield for bff + elemental gaige. Gaige overkill is in shock and slag

Kind of pointless when using Gibbed gear. Perfect Sandhawks are so exceedingly rare and even decent ones are hard to come by. Instead of not using skill points, don't use gibbed.

and another 9 minutes wasted. just no arguments and only flaming.

I'm lost.....