Can you use track semi slicks tyres on a normal car? Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 vs Pilot Sport 4 S 

Has anyone else run track day semi slick tyres through winter? How have you found them? How have your normal tyres performed this winter? Obviously both sets of tyres in this video will be useless in the snow, luckily I didn't have to use my car for the few days it snowed in London!

I have Pilot sport Cup 2s on my S2000 that I drive almost daily. On autumn if it's under +4c and wet they are like driving poor winter tyres on icy road. On dry but cold it's about first 4 kilometers where they are pretty slippery but no problems if you are driving like regular people do (not me like I do :D) But when they are cold they don't seem to wear much so you can do couple big slides every cold morning and don't have lot tyre wear like you would have on hot day :D

Thanks for doing this! I'm running PS4S on my e92 M3 and on an occasional track day here and there. I was really impressed by its performance on track in the wet.

I think it should be mentioned that as a tire wears, the difference might become more stark. The SC2 has less initial tread depth, and some of its sipes are quite shallow (not full depth). So after a few thousand miles or kilometers, those would not be present anymore providing less water evacuation and such. The PS4S has more strategic sipes that try to bolster wet traction as the tire wears.

I ran Cup 2’s on my Megane 275 Trophy with the Ohlins dampers for one year, all conditions, every day, even had a day in snow. Obviously in snow they were a nightmare at one point on a hill but I still managed to get where I was going. In the wet I found them ok actually fairly good just have to be careful of standing water and feather the throttle rather than stamp on it. Any tyre is the same in the wet you have to drive accordingly. I found them brilliant. In the dry they are epic and just stick like sh*t. I didn’t find I had to warm them as much as people say they just worked well for me. I had super sports after this and found they lacked the feel of the cup 2’s so much that it felt like something had broken in the steering. The Megane steering is so sharp and precise so it was really apparent. On track they went off after three laps and were pony. I don’t think any ‘road’ tyre other than a cup 2 is viable for track work they just aren’t up to the abuse. The trade off with the Cup 2 is that it’s not as useable in wet or super cold weather. Just just have to drive according to the conditions. This is my own personal experience. On a proper front wheel drive car they’re excellent. Maybe on a beemer which is tail happy they would behave differently. Also I think bms are that way inclined anyway so would be similar on any but the best tyres. I think it’s fair to say the results of tyres will vary on different cars due to the characteristics of those cars.

You make this complex tyre shopping decision entirely manageable. WELL Done as always.

Super video! I like your not 'standard' Tyre videos! Looking foward to the track test. Keep up the good work! Cheers

Intelligent, objective information and data. Great for the enthusiast driver, I subscribe with enthusiasm. Thanks for the Glorious Revolutions from the UK!

one of the few channels that gives such knowledge about tyre and probably the best of those few

Man your videos are so detailed. Awesome!

Absolutely fantastic reviews! The science of tyres well done and keep them coming. I live in Sydney and I am about commit to cup 2 tyres tomorrow for my M2 Comp it doesn’t really get below 10 degrees much here so...off I go

PSC2 is perfectly usable as a daily if you live in a warmer climate Mate of mine was running PSC2 and swap to PS4S as it wears down, this video is absolutely spot on on everything

This is a good an informative video, dont understand the downvotes... Looking forward to a laptime comparison with the 4S and Cup2

I found this interesting, I run the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec on my Miata and the very first time I ran over a puddle in them on an otherwise dry road on a dry day, I nearly slid completely off the road at the next corner despite slowing down significantly! My first impression was "oh God, these tires will KILL me in the wet!" But then I took the car on a longer trip up the coast and ended up having to drive back in heavy, constant rain with temperatures in the 50s F, and it was really not an issue at all! I had no problem running safely with other traffic on the highway home. But you're right, I did have to think about the tires, think about the tire temps, and think about my available grip in the wet.

holy shit what's up with the downvotes?

Awesome video and very interesting!

So... I'm finally in a position to respond to this video with something useful. earlier this year I fitted Cup2's to my Mini JCW. This was with the intention of doing a few track days here and there. In that regard, the cup 2's were excellent (my cars geometry ruining the outer edge aside). They were also generally excellent in warmer weather including some degree of wet (when driven with due care). I drove 180 miles from Edinburgh to Elgin in early November in the pissing wet and it was OK, as long as a little care was taken and you didn't try to floor it anywhere. But.... and its a big bit... even on the Elgin trip, if you tried to pull out of a junction quickly, or go for a big overtake, you could easily lose traction on the driven wheels. Not so bad once up to temp, but its hard to achieve much temperature driving on a cold 60mph A road. It's the same with the daily commute. As you say, they're just not switched on at all for the first few miles and even after that, in cold conditions they just don't really allow you to make quick exits or pull away from roundabouts swiftly. I almost had the car switch ends on my once when I took a bend with a little too much enthusiasm, and the back just didn't have any heat, or grip at all. Conclusions: 1) they're excellent road legal track tyres and in a little 215bhp mini JCW were giving me 1:03 times around knockhill. They were consistent and stayed on the boil for a great number of laps. 2) They're OK summer road tyres. Amazing in the dry and surprisingly MORE comfortable and QUIETER than the run flats that came off the car. In fact even in the wet, they were better than the run flat P zero's that came off the car from a grip standpoint. 3) Would I run them again as an all year round tyre.... No. They're just too irritating in the cold. You can't get away from junctions quickly enough and you're always watching how you drive so you don't end up in a spin. They're good for summer tyres if you're going to use a dedicated winter tyre from Late October onwards. But if you're only having a single set of wheels all year round.... stick to a more conventional tyre like a 4S My issue was that in 17" size... the 4S isn't available and the 4 simply isn't focused enough.

Great video and your E92 looks awesome on the road!

I've been really looking forward to this after you hinted at it in your excellent PSS/PS4S comparo

Great review! We just bought a second GT 350 for my wife. It has the Cup 2 tires on it. I am taking those for my 2017 GT350 and we ordered her PS4S tires. I am not looking forward to the Cup 2s in wet weather but I am going to love them when it is dry. I am going to wear them out as quick as possible and I will go with PS4S tires after for my car. I have had the PS4S on all of our S550s and they are by far the best ultra high performance summer tire I have found.

Its summer here in Australia and I drive a Megane 3 RS. Am putting Cup 2 rubber on the front axle, but keeping the PS4S on the rear (instead of PS4S all around) excited to see the steering taken to the next level and limitless dry grip.

Awesome explenation using the whiteboard :)

Been running Yoko AD08R's for a year now (212bhp, 850KG, FWD) . Useless on damp single digit temperature roads, but fantastic in the dry! Patiently waiting for Spring to arrive so I can rock some Nankang AR1's

I appreciate the solid review. You made me a believer and they are going to be added to my Hyundai '15 Genesis Coupe R-Spec. Just got down an AutoX session and with my all season tires I was having issues with traction and body roll. Fortunately this doesn't have to be a daily driver for me and while I may drive it during the late spring, summer, and early fall, I won't be driving it during rainy days lol. This tire seems like a game changer and I'm really looking forward to a difference in handling!

2020, just got PS4s for my 435i thanks for being really informative man!

Good informative video man, hopefully you can do a track back to back soon including the pilot super sports, and continental sport contact 6 :)

Another great video!

Very informative. Not over technical.

I need to get tires pretty soon for my E92 and this has just about made up my mind thanks. Probably going to get the Cup 2's. I don't use the car everyday and hardly at all in the winter months so the cup 2's seem to make more sense.

Had the pilot sport cup 2 in a Subaru Impreza spec c and even with awd I totally agree with you, unbelievable and constant predictable grip on dry track but lot of attention required when tyres where cold or/and is cold and especially wet

I found out exactly how good the 4 S is in cold, damp conditions the other day. I had a pair of 4 S' on the front and quite well worn RE050s on the rear of my Megane RS250. Went round a corner at a spirited (but not crazy) speed and slightly blended out of the throttle and the back end came around really unexpectedly and very nearly spat me off the road. It was only a combination of ESP and dumb luck that kept me on the black stuff. Lesson learned and I've now ordered another pair of Michelins for the rear.

This is a perfect video! Was jusssst looking for daily driving reviews on the cup2's. It doesn't rain much here; so noise was my biggest concern.

What a great channel! Congrats!

As I live in Southern California, I put Sport Cup 2's on my Porsche 911. I don't drive the car much (5,000km year on average) and I have no necessity to drive in the rain, it almost never gets below 10C, and I do not track the car. I love the performance of these tires so they are my full time tires for that car. They are a real joy to drive.

Excellent comparison video! Thanks

I drove a set of Cup 2s year round once and had no major issues. I do prefer the Pilot SS or 4s for year round, but the Cup 2s werent as bad as I thought they would be. I even took a road trip in January and ran into freezing temps and light snow and I was still able to maintain the speed limit. I was pretty surprised.

Great video, I'm installing the PS4S on my E92 335i 6MT.

we need more videos ! PS4 Vs PS4S Vs Cup2 Vs F1 Asymmetric

I have the 4S, they are great in the summer and very good in rain. Below 50 deg f they start to loose traction and not that good below 40 deg f.... But, you can stll drive normally with no problems unless it's wet..

Great review, I don't know why so many down votes. I loved the shout out to Engineering Explained 👍

Just going through the back catalogue, excellent vid again! Personally I run trackday tyres all year round, but in Australia it doesn't really get below 5ºc. That being said you do tend to have some exciting moments in wet + cold when trying to push on, no bad thing in my opinion!

Thanks for the interesting and informative video comparison. I have a 2019 370Z sport coupe 6M that has Bridgestone Potenza S007s, the OEM tire for this car. They're great tires and seem similar to the PSC2s, hence I'm thinking of going with the PSC2s when it comes time to change.

Your reviews are just great!!! I have a tuned Mini Cooper S with 240hp and when I floored the tires just spin even on second gear (traction control off) so I`m looking for some grippy tires, there is no PS4S on 17”, so I have to decide between PS4 or CUP2, where I live (Lima-Peru) there is pretty much no rain so my real worry is the premature ware and live of the tire in general considering that the road conditions are crap over here. So PS4 or CUP2??

Really like your videos!! Helped me chose Cup2s for my Golf R which is a daily that I will use on track a few times a year.. but I destroyed the fronts in about 6 laps at Bedford last week .. literally ripped/rolled the central blocks off the tire, and had to leave at 10 am. Tyre pressures were 37 psi hot.. tyres were brought up to temperature on a few sighting laps.. pressure checked every 3 laps…. After two 3 lap stints the front right was ruined, and the front left almost as bad… front alignment .02 degrees toe out.. Do you think it’s pressure or alignment?

2017 Chevrolet Cruze LT with 1.4t, running Firestone Indy 500 in 205/55/16. Love at first turn.

Great videos! I’d be interested to see you do something on the AD08R

Great video, been waiting a while for this one 😀 The steering feel is the point that interest me most and one that may decide on whether to get a set or not. Being a Track day tyre do you feel that enough heat is generated in the fronts on the road to give more grip on spirited drives?

I just got an M3 CS and it came with Cup 2 tires. They are tough in the NJ winters. I just got a set of Apex wheels with Michelin Pilot Alpins and there is a world of different in the cold. I feel like I have grip everywhere.

Wish I could've bought these for my 330Ci but because I maintain my stock 17s the best I could get were PS4,couldn't even get PS4 S because of the small size. Still I'm very happy,they perform great in all conditions,I once had AD08 on an e90 which were quite interesting in the wet lol

Great video! I was surprised to hear that the 4S are immediately "switched on" even around 0C. I have the Goodyear Eagle F1 A3 on my tuned 360hp Seat Leon Cupra 280 and they have hardly any grip below 5C. They are almost as bad as you've shown with the Cup2s when still cold, though easier to manage thanks the FWD layout of the Cupra. In summer the grip in wet & dry conditions is very good of course, but I would be mindful driving even them year-round. Not every max performance summer tire is as versatile as the PS4S.

I had this exact choice in mind last summer and I chose the PS4S. Grip under all conditions on the road is remarkable. On track (Bedford) I think they overheated slightly, but road performance over the winter has been outstanding. I’m not sure I’d choose the Cup2 now I’ve seen your video. If I wanted to do lots of big skids, I’d buy cheaper tyres 😁

If I were racing a Porsche in the Targa Tasmania tarmac, rally which is renowned for swinging from sunny and dry conditions to cold and heavy rain stages, I'd choose the Pilot Sport 4S tyres to be on the safe side. I've seen some fast Porsches have offs on Pilot Sport Cup 2's in heavy rain

Very good video. Would be really good to see an all out track day tyre test. Mpsc2 vs Nankang AR1 vs R888r vs Dunlop dz03g vs Yoko AO52 vs Trofeo R vs Ado8r. Could be a tricky test to carry out.

amazing video! Really useful!

Nice , Keep Up The Great Work . . . Thanks

If you want to get Sport Cup 2 tires, get it, along an extra wheel set, as a second set that comes on/off for track days. These tires wear out very fast. If you have garage space, just change them before driving out to the track. Hopefully the roads won't be as slick!

Great review!Very helpful!Thx!)

I do. Yokohama 048 advan s compound Corolla ke70 Tuned 16v 160 hp Perfect feedback dry and rain. Noisy at 40km/h and 75 km/h. Thanks.

Excellent video, thank you

I ran 225/45/17 Nankang NS2Rs on my 2011 Giulietta for 1 year. My main driving is on very fun, twisty B-roads in North Wales, and 2019 was a very wet year. In the dry they outperformed any tyre I have previously used. On damp-wet roads, they were perfectly fine - very good levels of grip. Through large puddles and water-logged roads not so good; obviously I adapted my driving to account for the tyre's reduced grip, and considered braking distances with more respect. In cold or icy weather they were sketchy and probably performed the equivalent of some £25 budget tyre, so were not a clever choice. Overall, ignoring the awful rolling noise that NS2Rs generate, they were a hugely fun tyre to run, albeit not very practical. Now using PS4s which are far more practical, notably not as much grip, but more forgiving sidewalls, less noise, better wear and perform better in heavy rain! Also running Yoko all-seasons on 16" for the colder, wetter months when the pot-holes dominate Welsh roads and a forgiving sidewall saves alloys.

Gotta do a budget "r compound" track tire comparison test ie: Achilles 123s and atr-k, Federal 595rs-rr and fz-201, Accelera 651, Nexen N'Fera SUR4G, Nankang NS-2R vs Toyo R-888-R, Falken RT615K+, Bridgestone RE-71R, Nitto NT01. There's not a lot of non subjective info on these cheaper tires with real testing to back up claims. Would be nice to know how they stack up against the well known tires that cost a pretty penny when you're saving a significant amount on the budget tires. could be worth the money saved if lap times aren't significantly slower...

I have 4s on my ISF. With it being single digits out, as soon as driving them in the cold, full lock the fronts buckle like I have everything broken in my suspension. Front end is squirmy. Once warmed up to normal driving temps, they’re fine. Rears take a few pulls to get them up to temp quicker, which becomes squirmy as well but it’s controllable and predictable. And I’ve already caught myself driving in the snow in them. Nothing gets more sketchier than that. They’re getting replaced with Continental Extreme Contact DWS 06 Plus. I’ll be getting a second set of wheels with summer track tires and that will be only for the warm weather. Never again lol.

So I'm presently creating a wolf in sheep's clothing from a 508 RXH, and just did the filter switch (K&N), I've noticed a minor difference in performance in my previous cars and bikes but this is a whole other level, baring in mind the stock paper filter I removed was about 5 inches deep with a foam cake on the bottom and the K&N is an inch in depth but it is flying up through the gears, tomorrow comes the new set of Pilot Sport 4S 255/35/20 and new subtly different alloys, next the turbo and then rolling road. If the simple change of air filter is anything to go by this car has a lot to give ! Rolling weight is 1700kg O_o anyone else working on a W.I.S.C?

How are these in the wet when it's warm out? I'm mostly looking to daily/track with these in the summer, and just want to make sure that I'm not going to have issues hydroplaning on the highway.

Love your E92 M3 - what is your suspension set-up, which rims are you running + size/offsets, and what tire sizes are you running?

An E92 M3 with a V8 engine sending +300 KW to the rear wheels is not exactly what I'd call a "normal car", but we give you that because the reviews are always outstanding! ;)

Many thanks for the great informative video. Would be interesting to get peoples feedback on Cup 2’s on a fast front wheel drive hot hatch (instead of rwd). Am about to switch to 235/35/19 Cup 2 connects from some PS4S’s (I’ll keep them for uk winter driving). Hopefully the cup 2’s shall be great for fast road and long road trips into Europe/the alps during summer!

Hi mate, Great videos about those tires! I have got a question for you: I own a Porsche Boxster 987 2.9l. Last year I bought brand new Pirelli P Zeros (kinda regret that decision, PS4 would have been the better choise). A few days ago, I bought those beautyful Spyder wheels, which are used, but in a very good shape. They came with 2014 Cup 2 tires, about 4 - 4,5mm profile left. I do enjoy driving a lot, I only use the car at summer time, but to keep it ´healthy´ I drive it over the whole year latest every 3 weeks for 30 minutes. Those driveouts of course are more chilling, no Performance driving to enjoy G-forces (like on my summer tours). Do you think I can use the Cup 2 for this season or do you recommend putting the pirellis onto the spyder wheels for to throw those 2014 Cup 2s away? Best regards from Germany!

Great review! Thank you. Which UHP tyres have closes characteristics to the semi-slick tyres in terms of dry grip and steering response? I have a Mini Cooper S. I want to change runlats with conventional tyres. But I don't want to lose go-kart like steering feeling. I'm looking for UHP tyres with really stiff sidewalls and sportive character. 205/45 17.

I just bought a 2018 Ford Focus RS and it came with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires on it. I'm scared every time it rains and I plan to swap them for the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires.

Hi Tyre Review I run PS4 on my Clio rs200 Cup which I’ve been hugely impressed with over winter and they even did pretty well at a track day last week. I’m investing in some summer wheels and wanted to put cup 2s on as 4s doesn’t come in 17” I was thinking of using cups from May till Sept basically when the temp is above 7degrees and then going back to the PS4 for winter. Is 7+ warm enough even when the road is damp to get the cups up to speed? I realise standing water is always going to be an issue. Love your enthusiasm - I’ve learned a huge amount - keep it up!

Love the Engineering Explained clone! :D And the lovely M3 e92 too, what's happened to it? Haven't seen it in ages! Oh and useful stuff about the tyres too :), when will they make multi grade tyres? lol

Absolutely love your videos 👌 how do you think these tyres compare to full on semi slicks with a treadwear rating of

I drive my Toyota in rain and cold, how about the wear? Which one last longer? I never track my M3 but there are some twisty roads in the area

Great video! I have weekend sls amg for weekend fun, and you might know the rear end grip is terrible. The original continental just can not deliver the torque at all. I barely drive my sls in wet, and never go to track, just aggressive drive in town. My priority demand for the tires is dry grip which helps the 0-60 time. which tire shoud i choose,cup2 or ps4s? The TEMPS in my city is 0C-35c. Thank you!

I had Michelin cup 2 on my R26 at a track day at Spa summer time in 33 Celsius heat ! Cracking tyres absolutely faultless

I ran Michelin Pilot Super Sports through last winter. Never again!..The rest of the year, bloody marvellous! #MichelinSnobs

I drive a 300bhp focus st mk3 with Nankang ns2r semi slicks all year round you need to think more in the winter for fast driving and in the cold get some understeer but you get use to it and in my opinion it make you a better driver as you have to lean to control your car not just expect the car to do it for you

I live in Cocoa Beach, where we get summer thunderstorms but it I always warm/hot when it rains...in our "winter" it rarely gets below 45 F and when it does it is always dry as a bone. So my question is how is the cup 2 tire in the wet when it is warm out? I drive a modestly modified (headers, Europipe Stage 2 exhaust, intercoolers and a Cobb autosport tune) 997.1 TT and probably only drive it approx. 1,500 miles/year.

how did you think about Yokohama AD08R?

Hey, Tks for that…you talks about less comfort for the cup2 but what about tramlining ?

I'd run 4s on the road and spare set of wheels for cup 2. Seems a little bit of a waste on the road (imho). Have you done a MPS4 vs MPS4S yet?

I have an M4 and bought a separate set of track wheels, they are oem wheels (437) which come with from factory 255 width on front and 275 with on rear. When I bought the track wheels they were fitted with cup 2 tyres which were 265 width on the front and 295 width on the rear. My question is will that affect performance on track? I have driven them on dry roads and tried to get a bit of heat in them but the car just feels disconnected. Almost like the side walls are flopping about maybe because there to wide? Would love to hear your verdict.

I’m so torn on this issue. I have a 18 GT-350R. It came with SC2 obviously and I love them. I don’t track the car but I do drive the hell out of it. Mainly back country windy roads. I’ve put 12500 Km on the car in the last season. I’m now ready to change the tires for the third time. At $3400.00 CDN twice a summer it’s costly. Pondering switching to PS4’s as they will last longer but I’m worried about missing the performance of the Sport Cup 2’s. Great video and any advice would be appreciated.

For shits and giggles, I threw in a set of Kumho Ecsta 4Xii on my e90 staggered. Full suspension with rear camber bars. These tires actually perform really well in the wet, dry, cold and warm. They achieve all of my demands for the most part. The sidewall is a bit soft so it takes away from the feel of the wheel a bit, but for a "cheap" tire, I couldn't ask for more.

I have a GT3 991.2 which has Cup 2’s. I do a couple of track days but mostly road work. I’ve found the cup 2’ rubbish in the wet, seems to struggle get rid of lots of water, very sketchy. As you say. Porsche have now approved use of the pilot sport 4s. Would you recommend for a car like a gt3

Hey mate, which would you suggest for hot climates like we have here in Australia? You barely notice winter come around, except perhaps in the mornings and evenings. Cheers mervyn

just use them in summer in Wurope and youre very good equipped (not England where you have all day rain). I barely have rain in summer, and 30-40 degree. Celsius, so they are great

I would be interested in a review of the new Cup2 Connect 240 which comes on the M2CS. Since the original Cup2 had a 180 tread wear and the Connect 240 has a 240 tread wear, it would've nice to compare.

The exit ‘slide’ at the roundabout is that with traction control off ? MDM ? Or DSC engaged ?? How would the cup 2’s perform on wet roads but summer temps ? Considering buying a set with cup 2 but only for summer (road) use.

I’m considering one of these tyres for my e92 m3. I’m not going to be using my bmw much through the winter maybe once a month for the odd commute. So the cup 2 sounds more for my needs for them lovely sunny days. Or is it too serious of a track day tyre for road use?

Can you comment on the cup2's sidewall stiffness issues at higher sidewall profiles? I've heard reports that cup2's with profiles 40 and above don't have much sidewall stiffness to them, with reports of sidewall damage. Have you seen or experienced this personally?

Would the difference be reduced on a front wheel drive car? I don't have the option of the 4S (18" wheel) but do have the option of the cup 2 or the normal PS4. My car is a daily driver, I drive to work in it every day (about 10 miles each way) but would like to do some odd track days. is the cup 2 worth having overall in day to day use and an odd track day once in a while?

What's with the dislikes?

In terms of steering response and feedback are they any better compared to Bridgestone s001 (which you have mentioned is better from pss)? I am very interested in this aspect, not in outright grip.

I have a 991S with Cup 2's My wife doesn't like driving in the car because she says its to noisy. I got a rear puncture so now I need to replace the rears or buy PS4S. I do drive hard on windy roads. I was thinking of switching to the PS4S to reduce road noise and possibly take the 911 on road trips with my wife ( I would have to drive slower). If the PS4S aren't much quieter I don't think I want to give up any performance. I drive April to October in a semi desert region, very little rain and hot temp 10c to 100c. Is Road noise enough to make the change.

Recently switched from generic Bridgestone run flats to Pilot Sport 4s Non run flats on my 330i and the loss of precision/cornering stability is dramatic. The car wants to lose traction on any slight bump on a sweeping corner. I’m attributing this to the difference in tire wall on the tires. The general consensus is that Non rft’s > rft’s. Not in this case.

Yeah getting these on my corolla.

Which do you recommend for an AMG GTC, for a mostly hot climate most of the year with little rain (+30 - 40 c)? Would the 4s perform the same as the cup 2? Pls note my car came with cup 2. Thanks.

Hi, I have been told that some tyres that have steel belt internal construction (Michelin?) should not be used along with tyres of a different construction. I can't remember the exact details mentioned but does this sound like a genuine concern? Thanks