Did The Flash Armageddon Save The Show? feat. Madvocate (Video Essay) 

To be fair, Reverse Flash has always been overkill. In one Flash story, he went back in time multiple times in order to change his own past: He murdered his brother (so he would be an only child) and even caused a woman, who he was in love with, to have a mental breakdown after she rejected him. Seriously Thawne is the master of overkill.

I'll give Thawne this: That man is the definition of petty.

The problem isn't Reverse Flash returning over and over again.. the problem with that is that he doesn't really do anything. At the start he was a menacing foe, the one person who could be dangerous to Barry, but now he just shows up to pull pranks and disappear again

24:50 Joe was the worst part of this. "Barry you have to save the irredeemable psychopath who's killed loads of people and has dedicated his life to ruining yours just because he asked you to." The same Joe who like Barry has wanted Thawne dead for years.

saving thawne is like the trolley problem, either let a psychotic killer die or switch the track to probably kill 100 people

I wouldn't go as far as to say it "saved" the show. It did exceed my expectations and actually had quality writing, so that's something.

Joe telling Barry he needs to save people in general is stupid. Joe is so wrong. Let him get erased for his own actions. It’s not wrong to let him die realistically

Thawne being overkill is what makes him who he is as a character especially when he's being overkill for the pettiest of reasons, frankly it's scary af.

I'm so glad you mentioned Joe contradicting himself. I was so mad when I saw him try to save Thawn. I'm like "fuck you, you tried shooting him with no questions asked asshoole." Madvocate coming through the portal was just icing on the cake lol

24:46 I realised this as well when watching the episode for the first time. He twice tried to shoot Eobard before, 2x05, like you showed, and 1x20, when he shoots the Everyman thinking he's Eobard. I guess you can say Crisis changed it but it really shouldn't have happened and was out of character

I'm very mixed on the event. I don't think it should've been advertised as a crossover tbh, since it really wasn't one. It was just a storyline that happened to include a bunch of cameos. The episodes themselves were a mixed bag, what with every other episode being just *agonizing* to sit through! Glad it focused on Barry though, since last season literally wasn't his show anymore. Episode 3 was alright though, due in no small part to the writers pretty clearly watching all of Black Lightning season 1 and taking notes!

​i wonder how Gio feels knowing he rlly makes peoples day

5:30 given barry's speed, even if this was season 1 barry still getting a hang on how to use his speed, he wouldn't need to change his thinking, he can take them all out before they can even try to counter him. also, while that stuff of him taking out the royal flush gang is great, i feel chances are the rest of the season will have him back to his usual self and he won't realise how quickly he can take care of enemies

Flash:* Runs * Bad writing: " There's no way to run " * Super Smash Bros song rocks out *

When Gio says "For context", you know there's gonna be some points made. You summed up my thoughts perfectly. Great video!

Barry being surprised by the yellow suit makes no sense. Sure, from our perspective he changed his clothes in a split second. But from his perspective, he would be moving at normal speeds while everything else was staying still. He would definitely notice the yellow suit before putting it on.

You know what would have actually saved Thawne? Putting him in the speed Force prison. Literally the perfect solution, and the only ACTUAL solution.

YOOO THIS CROSSOVER BETWEEN MAD AND GIO IS AWESOME

Instantly started laughing when Madvocate came in. But I do agree with your points. Even thought this crossover was an improvement from season 7, it’s still pretty bad. And OMG, you hit the mark so accurate with that “protect everyone” bull crap they tried to pull with Joe.

I honestly dont mind eobard or time travel, if its done right, but knowing the writers theyll butcher it again

I fully approve of the Cecile slander

this guy just kills me, was laughing for the most part of it

I love the cameo by Madvocate his videos on the flash being an idiot are pretty funny but right.

besides episode 4 as a whole, my biggest pet peeve with this crossover was despero speaking like a power rangers villain. he was literally just spitting out cringe-inducing villain one-liners. my god that was something else

They overused thawn to the point in which he’s no longer even a relevant villain. We saw it coming a mile away or At least I did. It’s a progress but it still got many things wrong

Honestly Catlin is the new Iris in terms of being useless imo

Some parts of Armageddon was amazing and some parts were trash and I really don’t know how they’re going to the rest of Season 8 with Bart & Nora etc…..

Thank fuck Superman wasn't included in this.

great video Gio! you and madvocate did an excellent job on this one and this “crossover” was good but disappointing of how much better it could have been.

You know I just realized a huge plot hole... the rf in the crisis on earth x crossover escaped and the rf in season 5 also escaped. Now barry pulled the rf from season 1 to help him beat godspeed in season 7 and that rf was the one that caused armageddon. So now that this rf lost his speed there are still 2 rf that are roaming around freely 😐

Ive seen the formula before. Season 3 started off strong, got worse later on. Season 7, the first 2 episodes were great and then it got awful. Season 8 started off good-ish. lets hope that it doesn't get even worse. The Episode is coming soon i think

That madvocate cameo was the funniest thing I've seen in a while 😂

26:00 I think you completely misunderstood what was said by Thawne, or somehow we both got different interpretation. If a speedster USES their speed, they cement in the timeline faster, which means Thawnes speed would be the thing that makes him disappear faster.. I’m curious to see what your interpretation is, but I’m pretty sure this is what was meant by the writers.

I love how you did "it was me Barry"😂😂😂

Can we agree that we've seen enough of Tom Cavanagh reverse flash? I miss Matt Leschter reverse flash. I mean, i like Tom's portrayal as Eobard, because i can believe his ver. of Eobard can outsmart even fool Barry, but i always prefer Matt's portrayal when he is on Reverse Flash suit.

I mean thawne is like the actual worst he screwed with Barry, Barry’s Friends, His Family, Wally, Hunter, Wallys Friends, I think he even killed his girlfriend so he could have a tragic backstory

The love for the show hasn't ever been revised until maybe now.

My Man you have LEVELED UP!

I love your videos bro. I don't watch flash anymore but i love catching up with your videos man!

when i saw Madvocate step through that youtube portal i popped holy shit he was great like always looking forward to seeing you both do another video one day on some youtube multiverse

I thought this arc/event was pretty good. It was the best story in my opinion since the bloodwork arc back in season 6. Barry was absolutely amazing, he was fast and strong and confident and powerful and was really using his powers in unique and cool ways and was the main focus of the whole event and really felt like his comic counterpart; and he finally got the gold boots and they look amazing. Damien Darhk was once again a great character regardless of the confusing parts in part 5. Some of the team ups were great like Ray Palmer and Black Lightning. Despero was a good and powerful villain for this event and I loved how it was Thawne messing with the timeline that was causing Armageddon. However there definitely were some low points that weren’t good. I wish they used Despero a little more. A lot of the time travel stuff didn’t really make sense I suggest watching the RU-vidr Airricksreloaded’s reviews on parts 4 & 5 he covers all the issues I had with the time travel. Some of the team ups weren’t needed for the plot and outcome like Mia (even though I do want to see the Green Arrow and the Canaries storyline continued and resolved) and the 2031 appearances because there was setup and character moments that didn’t matter especially since the timeline was erased and changed. This wasn’t the best crossover and wasn’t the best arc of the show but it’s not the worst crossover and wasn’t the worst arc of the show. This definitely was a good storyline.

23:38 this is the part, his reason for hating flash is totally different from the one he gave back in season 2. In season Thawne travelled back in time and discovered that he wouldn't be flash so he became his reverse. But here he's saying that Barry went into the future and stole his thunder. That's inconsistent.

Looking forward to your review of season 8 as a whole.

Uhh, SINCE WHEN DID IRIS APPROVE OF DATING OLD LOOKING PEOPLE- WHAT? LITERALLY JUST LOOK AT ANY OF THE DOPPELGANGERS OF WELLS- WHAT IS THIS?!

9:41 Could have been worse. He could have done his usual naive "Don't do this. This isn't you" then ran off assuming she'd magically reformed while he was gone.

Great Video. As someone who dropped The Flash around the 5th season, your videos were so entertaing men, thank you. Also, about Naome and Batwoman, i think you should talk with Az from HeelvsBabyface to do a collab, he is currently suffering in watching naomi And i think you guys could be hella funny together

Dude this video was amazing. I hope you get blessed by the algorithm gods. You deserve slot more recognition. Also I've seen madvocates videos before yours actually. But don't think less of yourself for not pulling his views. Your passion will be appreciated just keep up the awesome work my friend.

Been waiting for this video since Armaggedon came out!

I kind of agree, there are moments when fools rush without any good planning.

I'll never know. Quit this show long ago, will never torture myself catching up👎

Bruh, madvocate appearing was the amazing crossover i never knew i needed

You had me at “feat. Madvocate”

I actually don’t think Armageddon did much to bring the show back to glory. In most ways I honestly believe it was a lackluster, ultimately underwhelming crossover where certain events could’ve easily been done differently and characters had moments that should’ve never happened.

Madvocate got out of there faster than Barry left Flashpoint

it just shows anytime reverse flash comes in. he changes the show and makes it 10x better

I waited for this video for 4 weeks! Finally!

Yooo Madvocate!!!! Good crossover!!!

The only problem I have with the idea of Armageddon is the Speed Force itself as since it was established that it was a conscious entity, it would not give Eobard access to its powers.

That picture when Grant is doing the peace sign made me laugh so hard lol 😆😂🤣

The only thing that can show/explain why Thawne did what he did was his most basic character drive: to fuck with Barry. Killing Joe, having Barry investigated, taking STAR labs, going back and turning himself into The Flash and Barry into the Reverse, etc. And then killing Barry is his final nail in the coffin. If he was going back in time and messing with things in a certain order, and not all at once, it would make MORE sense, but not all.

If i were to try to do the writers job, i'd say that Thawne's plan was to make it harder to reverse his alterations by layering multiple separate new timelines over each other. He is smart enough that he knows that changes to the timeline get reverted all the time. So he realizes that in order to make something stick he needs to make changes, and then change them again, so that when they inevitably get reversed, some of his changes are still there.

A very short list of what Thawne has done: -Attempted to murder Barry as a child -Murdered Nora Allen -Framed Henry Allen for 15 years -Murdered Harrison Wells and Tess Morgan -Blew a partcle accelerator, killing countless people and creating metahumans -Stalked Barry for 15 years -Murdered Simon Stagg -Murdered two security guards -Threatened Joe with his daughter’s death -Handed Martin Stein over to General Eiling to be experimented on -Murdered Cisco in an alternate timeline -Murdered Mason Bridge -Arranged for Hannibal Bates to be used as collateral -Stalked all of Barry’s friends and family -Threatened Iris with her life -Kidnapped Eddie -Unleashed Grodd on the city -Attempted to murder Oliver Queen -Threatening Barry with his family’s lives before attempting to murder him -Unleashed a black hole on Central City -Murdering two more security guards -Attempting to murder Christina Mcgee -Allied with Damien Darhk to blow up New York with an atomic bomb -Murdered Rex Tyler -Allied with nazis -Held Martin Stein captive and tortured him -Kidnaps and reconditions Rip Hunter into a murderous psychopath -Murders two astronauts -Changes reality and mentally tortures the Legends -Rips Ray Palmer’s heart out -Murders future versions of the Legends -Allied with Earth-X nazis -Attempted to murder Supergirl -Manipulates Nora Allen resulting in her death -Possesses Nash Wells and mentally tortures him -Murdered Joe West -Murdered Barry as a child -Murdered an innocent version of himself -Attempted to destroy Central City

Dude that opening was friggin awesome 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Great video good job

I really liked the twist in episode two of star labs being closed down and Joe bein dead and genuinely for some naive reason thought they would stick. Cause a change like that would heavily shake up the show and its formula, and with the characters at that point looking better written then in the past I was quite excited to see what they would do with it. Sadly however, neither twist held any long term consequences and were rectified by the end of the crossover.

Yknow your criticism for thawn in part 4 makes sense but that’s how his character is. He doesn’t do the easiest option and calls it a day. He is obsessed with flash and wants to make his life a livin hell. Having him go through all of that then at the end dying so that he can’t do anything is smart for torturing someone. Make them live through the worst day of their existence then make it to where they can’t change it.

It was the Madvocate cameo for me

Dude u made my day 😂

I said at the end of season 7 that I am finally done with this show that it’s never gonna get better and that I’m just torturing myself at this point. But then I saw that royal flush gang clip and heard people saying the crossover was actually good, against my better judgment and like a drug addiction I went back and watched part 2 -5. From part 2-4 I actually thought it was okay (Until you opened my eyes about how stupid it actually is). But it was at part five that I just went into complete rage. There shouldn’t have been any sort of discussion on whether or not they should let Thawne die. As you said this man is straight up evil and has committed so many atrocities to Barry and other people in general and they wouldn’t have even been killing him, they would just let him die as a result of his own actions. But then later I was relieved when it SEEMED like the writers were becoming competent and had the characters agree to let him die. UNTIL Joe comes in and just ruins everything, I was fuming at that stupid speech that He gave to Barry and Iris. But this crossover has somewhat convinced me to give the show one more shot and that in itself is an accomplishment.

I only watched the bit where Joe whines to Barry and Iris about letting Thawne die, aside from the fact Joe comes off as completely delusional, any arguments that can be made to defend him are ruined by the fact he gives them a ultimatum in doing it, I can’t remember exactly what he said but it was something like “Thawne won’t be the one who destroys this family” or some other melodramatic nonsense. Also i could care less about Cecile, she’s literally only there as a plot device as they keep adding to her extremely vague powers. Barry also killed Atom Smasher (by having take in to much radiation), Black Out (he overloaded himself when absorbing Barry’s speed) and Sand Demon (he turned him into glass and shattered him).

Haha love ur flash videos man!! And madvocate's cameo was unexpected...love it. I thot i missed sm new video from madvocate n went checking his channel but found nothing new sadly... You both are doing great job man...i love watching ur funny criticism videos rather than the show itself! 👍 I find it funny how everything is already given on a plate in form of years of comic chapters but no...lets turn it into a a sh*t show. How can smone mess up an established character so much?? I wonder if there were so many good stories in the comics to adapt... Only DCAU cud do justice to flash...no pun intended. They shud hv stopped the show after season 3 at the least. I really thot CW flash cud hv been used in the DC live-action movies rather than that weird ezra miller version. And that wud hv been a big step up, and we wudn't hv had to vitness the crap that later seasons are.. Marvel superhero movies work bcoz they show their heroes in a believable way, so it makes sense in the rules of it's world.

That throwback of joe trying too kill reverse flash from season 2 was priceless 😂

For me the weirdest thing is how did despero’s future happened if reverse flashpoint got erased, also i think the creators made team flash save thawne is due to 1) they need a villain, and 2) in the comics flash forgave thawne for everything he’s done and locked him into the timeline changing his future

I still don't understand how barry and thawne switched identities in the reverse flashpoint

loved the video

I don't think it matters how many arcs they do, it doesn't seem like they know how to end the show and it's just going to eventually fizzle out.

Stopped watching the flash after crisis on infinite earths and I'm happy to see there's no reason to return

All in all, this crossover didnt save the show but gave some hope for some consistency and character development for barry and iris

Madvocate’s cameo was beautiful. XD

madvocate's intro dope asf,loved the vid,i watched till part3,,got bored went to jrk off,,then came back to SHE-ARROW,,i just died

Are we not going to talk about the part where thawne throughout the series it’s stated he avoided time line changes by running into the negative speed force, I think it was established in the season with Nora. I don’t understand why he can do the same thing, and he clearly didn’t just forget because when thawne tried to Save Nora having her take cover in the negative speed force.

I don’t know bro, but If I would think like that in every episode that I will watch for the rest of the season I would hate my life. We all know this show way beyond saving; however, I hope that it gets a great ending and gives what this show once stood for which is Barry becoming the best version of himself and become the fastest man alive, i hope we could feel this.

Lol "as long as it dosnt involve timetravel" welp 😅 😂 so much for that. That bit made me laugh so hard

Yow were too generous with the points. There needs to be some sort of Annoyance Factor with these critiques. Excessive use of “Level Up”, terrible card and ice puns, and the always irritating Runk. Great work on the video, I appreciate your efforts! Good luck with your future projects!

I'm glad they brought Mia back for closure on her storyline but I think it should be its' own episode. I'd love to see a flash forward episode where Bart and Nora help Future Team Arrow rescue William. On that note, here are a list of Arrowverse shows that need to happen. Static or Thunder and Lightning The Atom (I thought they brought Ray and Ryan back so we can see Ray pass dowkn the torch but at least the last episode solidified that he WILL be The Atom in the future.) The Outsiders(including Katana) Lobo(I gave up watching Syfy after they cancelled Krypton and the Lobo spinoff that was in the works. But they could make one with the same actor) The Question (haven't read the comics, but I have heard that Renee Montoya, who's now on Batwoman, takes the original guy's place in the comics. Except the original guy still hadn't debuted yet because Warner Bros won't let the writers even when they themselves haven't used BECAUSE THEY KEEP MEDDLING WITH THEIR MOVIES!!!) Kid Flash(because the show is showing its age. Also, I miss Wally) Dreamer The Martian Manhunter They don't even have to be on The CW. I'd rather the Arrowverse expand beyond The CW and alongside HBO Max. Speaking of, there's no word if the Green Lantern and Justice League Dark shows are in the Arrowverse since Diggle's a GL and Constantine left the Legends. Maybe it's not? Maybe they're keeping it a surprise? Who knows? And had Wonder Girl gotten picked up, my idea would be to make the 70s Wonder Woman show canon as the show's universe is one of the other universes that became Earth Prime. Earth 96 Superman deserves his own show, too. Even though compared to all my other suggestions, it's not necessarily needed. Just fan service. Edit: I just finished rewatching Crisis on Infinite Earths for the first time. Reminded me that Jonah Hex and The Wonder Twins deserve their own series and Sargon the Sorcerer would make a perfect villain for Justice League Dark.

hate or love armageddon, you gotta admit its a big improvement from the usual "new villain per episode time to struggle the first time then capture second time with ease" trend

Nice cameo! 😁 🤝🏻

When we needed him most Gio returned 😤

I was annoyed with the show that they didn’t expand on the negative still force. It’s mentioned once, then never explained! Did eobard create and use it? If so, does that mean he also created negatives of the other forces? Why doesn’t he seemingly have those forces then? Why didn’t he use the negative still force against Barry? It was something I was excited to hear expanded on, but it never was!

Thawne is petty as fuck. I love it😂

I enjoyed the crossover for the most part. I've been rewatching the Arrowverse cuz I feel like before the final season of Flash is out, I wanna see the whole series. I feel like I owe the series to watch it thru. Also, I keep rewatching the video cuz I think it's a good video and your reactions to some stuff is hilarious lol. That's why I keep editing my comment cuz I then think of something to add. I liked this crossover with how they made Barry actually a leader. And he didn't need a pep talk to fight a villain or try to talk his way out of stuff. And he's more confident in his powers. I also liked the idea of Reverse Flashpoint. I thought that was a cool idea and it made sense for Thawne to do ig. But there is some issues tho with it. But I still do think the idea is a cool idea for Thawne to come up with. And I liked how some of the other heroes connected to the crossover. Like Ray Palmer, Mia's Green Arrow. I also liked Damien Dark teaming up with Barry to fix the timeline. Also, the idea of the Injustice protocol is cool but the execution of said idea tho is lacking (I'll explain in a sec). I wish we saw the reason for why that was created. Not just something that happened off screen tho. Also, I don't get why people hate Joes speech to Iris and Barry. He's not wrong. Being hero means trying to save everyone. Even bad guys. And people bring up Season 2. Fine, but everyone seems to be forgetting a key thing in what they are referring to in Season 2. When Joe shot at Harry, he thought that was Reverse Flash. Anyone and I mean anyone would've done exactly the same thing Joe did in Season 2. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit. Joe didn't even think, he just acted. Cuz Joe saw a man with the same face of the guy who killed Barry's mom in front of him. And Joe being the protective father he is, he instinctly (is that a word, idk) was trying to protect Barry and everyone else by trying to shoot Harry. Cuz he thought Harry was Reverse Flash. So, trying to show Joe is dumb or whatever by referring to what happened in Season 2 is just stupid. All that being said, I do have some things I didn't like. I hated how Despero's CG looked at times. He looked like PS2/PS3 graphics sometimes. He looked terrible. And the execution of the Injustice protocol is kinda lacking and stupid, like Barry creating the device to stop him. But if Black Lightning is supposed to stop him, shouldn't be know how to make it? Like you said. And while I liked the idea of Reverse Flashpoint, it's very flawed in the execution and failing to remember the rules of time travel and stuff set up in earlier seasons. It's not a perfect crossover, but I did enjoy it. And this crossover got me back into the show.

27:43 LMAO the sudden change of tone

This whole crossover could have been done with if Barry didn't let thawne go in the finale, why is everyone skipping that fact

When Madvocate appeared I instantly realized that he is actually going to continue destroying and exposing the series as being the trash that it always was

I literally screamed when I saw Madvocate. Best crossover ever!

Hi Gio love your videos please do a review of Arrow Season 3 and Season 4 Thanks

tbh the reverse flash part makes sense. Thawn absolutely hates barry to the core, even if all he had to do was sit still he wouldn't. He will always do more and more to hurt barry and make his life a living hell, it's not enough for him to win, he has to do every conceivable thing to make barry's life worse and worse, it doesn't matter whether it could lead to his defeat. That's the character of the reverse flash, its who he'll always be and the reason for his downfall.

I have always been a huge Flash fan, but even then I knew the show was going downhill. Don't even get me started on season 7, I almost couldn't watch it. I wouldn't go as far to say Armageddon saved the show, however it is definitely a step in the right direction and actually had me interested for the future episodes. I do however think that if the remainder of season 8 can keep this same quality, it definitely can be saved

The Flash Season 8 has actually been really good in my opinion and I hope that you will do a full season 8 review. Also what are your thoughts on Legends of Tomorrow and Batwoman being cancelled?

I had no problems with the Armageddon Event I thought it was super good and the next ep looks very good Keep up the good content Gio