BOOK SPOILER COMMENT: I'd say the only thing missing here is the plotline regarding Paul's concerns that continue on from the end of DUNE about being deified, about people going to war and killing in his name as though he were a God. He exploits that faith with temples like the one his sister presides over to keep his Empire united, but at the same time knows its a double-edged sword that commits atrocities in his name. At the end of MESSIAH Paul finds a solution with the birth of his twin children, which went against all of his visions, becoming something of a divergent timeline. Paul finds that he is now truly blind as the future/s he foresaw no longer exist with the birth of the twins. Thus he goes into the desert to die in the Fremen way, not as a God or a martyr, but as an ordinary man, thus (in his eyes) ending the idea of his godhood. Dying in this manner also ensures Fremen loyalty, and the protection of his children by the Fremen.
@@alastairmcleod3635 If I remember correctly, the Fremen don't just see the blind as a burden to the sietch due to their disability, but actually believe that the blind are meant to be special offerings to the deity they believe in, Shai-Hulud. That's why they walk into the desert instead of giving up their water to the tribe; their water is offered to the Fremen's deity.
Scytale was not surprised by Duncan "coming back" and retrieving his memories, the Tleilaxu had hoped this would happen but had not succeeded up to that point. This was the true plot to destroy Paul, not to have Duncan kill Paul (and create a martyr), but to have Chani die in childbirth, and Duncan reincarnated to his former self. They could then offer Paul the return of his one true love in exchange for stepping down from the throne. It almost succeeds, as Paul has to ask Stilgar to kill Bijaz before he accepts. Messiah is the tale of Paul desperately going along with a plot to destroy him that he can't quite see, looking for a way to allow them to succeed without sending his Fremen into an even worse religious fury that would kill billions more.
Well scytale was surprised because no ghola before had returned to their former self, it was part of the olan, but it was a gamble and he was surprised that it worked.
Just finished the book. Despite it being a bit shorter than the first, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Paul trying to find a peaceful way to dethrone himself while not leaving the Fremen in a frenzied state was awesome. Like another comment I read, he was constantly picking the lesser of two evils every turn. I found some scenes of Messiah were as strong, If not, more compelling than some of Dune. I understand the backlash at the time, but in retrospect, I’m very happy Frank went the direction he took. Undermining Paul and showing the cracks that formed in his special powers was very interesting, personally. I do have a question though, do you think Frank just completely forgotten about The Voice in this one? Haha feel like it was only mentioned once, in regard to the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
He finally found a path into the future that he could not see. He saw himself having a son. He didn’t see himself having twins a boy and a girl. After that revelation, Paul describes how the future is now dark. He can’t see a thing. He seems extremely happy about this. Like this was the goal all along. To find a path that he could not predict. To find a future that wasn’t one of the countless horrible futures he could foresee.
I’ve been listening on audio books. Of all the books Messiah is the shortest one I believe. Also it’s pretty weird how Paul was super powerful but kept intentionally falling into traps
I thought this too and what I’ve gathered is that he was falling into traps that were the lesser of multiple evils. He needed to stay in power for himself and chani but also to prevent the jihad from being worse. Avoiding traps would have led to worse prescient scenarios. Or so HE says. In the end, he’s probably just selfish and uses his prescience for self-gain.
@@feist__everything Paul did was out of immense love. I think it was selfish, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. He loved too much. And love is the death of duty.
You are missing the point. He was not "Falling" into traps. He was stuck in His Vision of the Future, and any side step he made would make it Infinitely worse. Actually read it instead of listening to it.
this video is so great!!! it has been a year since i finished book 2 and i'm trying to start book 3 now. so, thank you so much this video is so helpful!!!
Yea that’s what I’m thinking cuz there’s hardly any action at all. This book is strictly politics. So in a way it’s like a political show like Madam Secretary or Succession but sci fi. I know a lot of people love political thrillers as do I. But since it’s a movie, people are going to expect action. not only that, but how are they going to introduce Alia who is around 14 and have her paired with Jason Mamoa who is 43. I mean I know there going to use an older actress to play young Alia, but the fact she gonna play a young teen at all is def gonna irk ppl in todays time lol.
@@eden20111People loved Dune movie, they will like Part 2 even more I suppose, and everybody would be excited to watch how Paul's story ends. If Denis gonna adapt Messiah (I hope he does), it's gonna be epic and ik people will have their eyes full of tears during the climax
EZ, show the war that got them to where they are, if they go for a 3.5 hour epic, that could easily be the first 90-120 mins of the runtime, then all the deep politics and scheming to end it.
Thank you for this summary, I usually walk and listen to the audio books. I missed a couple of key points in this story. Your summary helped me to put some them together.
@@An_Enraged_Pigdefinitely the best movie I’ve ever watched and I’ve watched MANY films, nothing I can think of even comes close. Dune 2 will be an all time classic.
The summary of book 1 is here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-drb7Q0brv3s.html And BOOK 3 CHILDREN OF DUNE is here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yRcC2Ds426I.html&ab_channel=Internetrando
It is! Messiah was a more relaxing reading experience though, and it made me more keen to carry on with the series than Dune did, even though Dune had a better story.
@@Internetrando That stone-burner blast was so intense though. I feel like that scene alone was almost more intense than most of the high stakes scenes in the first book. Other than that, the first book was such a treat. Jumping straight into children of dune today! Cheers!
@@InternetrandoI’m doing audio books and felt messiah was very lack luster. Maybe a reading experience is better? To relax for it, but the story was so much weaker. The best elements to me were the sections with former jihadis and modern fremen. The cultural change going from desert people persecuted to being the conquerers of the galaxy was interesting.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 In retrospect I agree with you. At the time Dune was so new and a bit overwhelming for me, that in comparison I found Messiah more accessible, and a more enjoyable read. Having read all 8 books now (God Emperor being my favourite), yeah Messiah isn't particularly memorable.
Thank you so much for this. Not sure if the writer intended this, but because I feel so puzzled by this book, I have conflicting hypotheses and ideas, well, I somewhat relate to the burden of this overwhelming amount of probabilities - the open ending of the book did not help! What a bloody book.
It doesn’t feel like it’s a cautionary tale but an inspirational tale…he gets what he wants, he secures things for another few generations…once you win…you can apologize later
I’m so curious to see how they handle the decade+ jump in time in the next film. I have a feeling they’ll make the first third or so of the movie fill in the gaps for sure
Hmm... Never thought of that. Spelled "Hayt" (and not always pronounced "hate"), there is, I suppose, an analogy to "Luv" in BR 2049 but I'm not sure if Villeneuve was already signed up for "Dune" when the characters were being finalized in the BR2049 screenplay...
@@PeloquinDavid thanks for the correction regards dispelling. The characters share some similarities, both being human analogues that 'belong' to almost God like Men responsible for huge social changes. I don't think D.V. being signed on to make Dune would matter. He obviously has a deep love and great knowledge in regards to the 'duniverse' and it's players prior to this.
@@kalencwil3924I really don’t think this a Messiah adaption is a good idea. These are high budget block buster films we’re talking about. Messiah will be a lot more boring compared to the first movie, which people had already expressed their concerns on how boring it was, unless they make dramatic changes from the book which is never good. I personally would love to see a third film but for the general public? I think It’ll go in one of two ways: Things are drastically changed and the public like it but Dune fans and book readers wont. OR. The public finds it boring but Dune fans and book readers will like it.
@@CICM_920 the book enthusiasts don’t make up much of the market so it’s much better if they change it to make a entertaining movie. Not expecting the next movie to be much better
If they end up adapting Dune Messiah, I really REALLY hope Chalamet won't get the Hayden Christensen treatment ;-; EDIT: if it does happen, i /will/ be squaring up with everyone who has a problem with Chalamet.
We will be ready! :) I was really happy to see the excitement for Hayden when the TV show Obi-Wan Kenobi came out, but you’re right, the SW fandom was pretty brutal to him for years.
I would be shocked if D U N E Messiah gets made. D U N E messiah is soooooo different than the first book and either would be incredibly difficult to make in the fact that it is too fantastic and would be really hard to ground without leaving a lot of the extremities out of the film. I think Denis Villeneuve passes on D U N E Messiah and goes for Rndevou with RAMA instead, especially since Cleopatra has been put on a shelf. or It gets made a long time from now and waits a while for some of the actors to age up a little.
I am sort of burned out by the dune opera. I read the first nine or so prequels. I am taking the reading slower for the main series and I am on this one now. Thanks for summarizing this down, saves me some time.
DUNE = 6 books, nothing else Stay away from the inferior Brian Herbert dumpster fire bullshit. It's all terrible, sometimes contradicting Frank's canon stuff.
@@bobbwc7011 My favorite of the Prequels was the Butlerian Jihad. Erasmus is a character to be recoken'd with, nothing like anything you'll find. A super villain like no other. Dune God emperor is a bit extreme and unbelieve, really ??? a emperor worm! lol I never got past Messiah. Frank is a rather dry writer round and about, but its to be expected from a book that takes place on a desert planet. Did ya'll see the part two in theaters? Brutal.
@@Juefawn Brian is a toolbag, who has contradicted lore established by Frank. The Butlerian Jihad is one of those things. The Dune canon is 6 books and the interviews by Frank. Brian's stuff is irrelevant horseshit.
A lot of plot. I can see Denis’ reluctance to announce whether he will do it or not. Quite a bit would be removed or changed to simplify the plot. Either way, I’m so glad Dune is complete in it’s 2 excellent films.
i didn’t like the prose of Dune 1, but I love the story. Its just such an interesting world. I love the Bene Gesserit and the Fremen, and the orientalist sufi stuff, biological genetic sci fi.
The word Messiah is the selling point of this book. It creates controversy and the sales increase. The Ghola, Hayt, is an unique character that continues to become more important in the later books.
Denis has his work cut out for him making this one! I can’t wait to see his vision and somehow making this all believable and real like he does so so well!
Hey, nice channel! I hope you get more subs. Mind if I brain dump about Dune Messiah for a second? Thanks! I'd read Dune for the first time as a teen, something like 25 years ago, but never read any of the others, until now. I already knew the plot (thanks Quinn's Ideas) so I got to focus on the execution. It's a little underwhelming, in a way, though that's not a bad thing. It's just so very _different_ from Dune, partially because---as you said---there's very little worldbuilding. The story is convoluted, but in a way that feels appropriate. LIFE is convoluted. I'm utterly fascinated to see what Villeneuve does with it. My one burning question: when he was programming Hayt, how did Bijaz know the trigger phrase "she is gone" would be said, or that Hayt would be there? Did Edric foresee that? Wouldn't anyone's vision of that incident be clouded?
Thank you for your Review. It’s been 40 Years since i read them and i remember that I hated the book. Far to much intrigue and a writer in love with himself. It was such a disappointment because book 1 shook me to my core. Till today it’s the best book I ever read .Might give it another go after watching your review but really not so sure about it. One thing I know for sure. This will never ..!!… be filmed. It’s unfilmable because it’s really not that good and nothing in it will make a good red line throughout a possible film. But that’s just me
🙏🏻 thank u my thoughts exactly dune 1 and 2 movies are just book 1 and it is the most moving captivating movies I have ever seen.. As is book one an amazing and soul inspiring tale The thought they would disassemble everything to make a 3rd movie written from this Convoluted dark and twisted gut punch of narrative trash such as messiah books 2 Would undermine everything they have created thus far.. As I felt the further dune books broke further and further into a bizarre madness after the 1st dune book
Dune 2 best movie I can remember 1 and 2 combined is my new favorite all time sci-fi Right now after watching this breakdown of what will happen in movie 3 I fear that it will ruin everything good in the first to movies
As someone who hasn't read the books, has come out of the theatre from Dune 2 and it's still thinking about it and is impatient to know what happens next, this gave me some peace. SPOILERS FOR DUNE 2 FROM HERE. Idk how Denis Villeneuve is going to adapt this. Which still brings me lots of questions. If movie Chani hates Paul's guts, how is she gonna have his children? Are we gonna see the holy war in detail and then the plot of this book? How is Denis gonna show something as ridiculous as reviving a character who sacrificed himself for Paul's future? How will the movie audience take that? There's a lot of new characters Messiah introduces, are some gonna be left in the cutting room floor? I haven't been this excited for a movie and a potential sequel to said film, in forever. Great summary!
One thing they could end up doing is having him wage his war at the same time as the rest of this political stuff is happening. I think reviving Duncan makes sense, it's no different than creating a clone of somebody he cares about and trying to brainwash them Winter Solider style.
@@Moman313 It's no different than Revenge of the Sith destroying all that the Jedi worked for in the prequels. I think the comparison of Paul being Anakin is extremely apt. Can't wait to see him go blind/deformed (no pun intended) and sense everything through his powers.
This book is honestly pretty meh compared Dune. Children of Dune is way better but still falls short of the original. The last three books just go off the freaking rails and aren’t much better than any run-of-the-mill sci-fi garbage.
Book one: They try to make a "do-it-yourself Messiah", but they can't "Handel" it. 😁 Book two: Neither can he.😭 Book 3. Ooooh sh*t, whut we gon' doo now?! 🤔 Book 4: *SWEET F---, A GIANT MAN-WORM* 😱 Haven't read 5 & 6 🤓
Problem is DV will mess it up like he did with Dune ..don’t get me wrong Dune visually was wow Fantastic but coz he DV decided to re write the book things missing and things was changed in away that Messiah is gone be a mess .prime example is the fact he did not have Alia birth in Dune and that was Alia who killed The Barron her grandfather which is important when comes to what happens to Alia .also the fact that DV in film part 2 had Chani go off in a mood etc when is clear in books Paul and her love for each other was absolute and that she understood why he married the princess. Coz of DV re writing the book people will believe is Paul who killed the Barron and that Alia was not born yet. There other things important things like that DV changed . I can except DV and the Studio changing or not using the word Jihad coz they too scared and too dumb not realising that book had lot both Islamic and Jewish culture in it including words and names etc. out all the Dune vid seen on RU-vid yours 1 the Better one in top 3 so Good job .
Not really. After Dune part 2, people are going to be invested in Dune. Therefore, they can definitely make this very Game of Thrones-esque movie, which can be extremely fun if done right.
Frank Herbert never meant for Paul to be a Messiah. The books written by his son do. Read Islamic Eschatology about the non Messianic role of the Mahdi.....that Eschatology is one of the sources of the First Book.
