As someone who has written satire professionally before, one of the most important rules my editor gave me was that it's not satire if it's just a recitation of despicable ideas. Reading directly from "Mein Kampf" is not satire, even if you do it with a silly voice. The purpose of satire is to highlight the absurdity of an idea by following the logic of the idea to such an extreme point where it destroys itself. Racism, unfortunately, rarely destroys itself at the extremes. In fact it usually just kills people.
Little late but for me, the moral of the story, especially how Folding Ideas explained it, is: Making a big problem and starting some kind of witch hunt over an unfunny and stupid joke is righteous and right because the people who made the joke are white men, the masculinum of the one cultural group in the world that diposited racist, theocratic and patriachal structres that are the norm in most of the current cultures in the world, which makes them somehow the most evil thing ever as they are part in the one group that embraced members of other cultural or ethnic groups as well as women as equals with equal rights in their cultural area, which is a rather unique cultural trait predominantly found in cultural areas with a majority population of people with european heritage. The song is shit, the joke is not funny and certainly, nobody should feel the need or expectation to laugh, applaud or in any other way give them a reaction that expresses a positive approval of their sense of humor in this case, but on the other way attacking them for telling a joke. To point it out, one can criticize it, that's no problem, but a valid critique is not an attack, it is simply the act of pointing out flaws, mistakes and failures in an piece of expression. Let us put in the example of someone telling an unfunny joke during a class in school. A valid reaction would be not to laugh, refusing to encourage or reward this piece of expression with a sign of approval that makes the teller of the joke feell ike they accomplished their goal, being funny, while probably also putting them into a state of shame and self-reflection, being forced to face the idea that other people will think of them as unfunny. This would be the way mature people would react. In this case, imagine the scenario about a boy telling an unfunny joke, after which the class reacts in actively bullying him for that joke. This is not a moral behavior and we should point out that in such cases, the other site is wrong. Such reactions are in no way better than people starting to bully people like Anita Sarkeesian for their bad popcultre criticism combined with their habit of telling lies and bad knowledge of the medium of video games in general.
I'm turkish. I'm just tired of this shit because seriously, the white people are probably the least racist people here arround. They even feel bad for the thins their ancestors did. When you want to have an example for a racist society, just read the history of Kurds in turkey, or the turkish reactions when somebody mentions the armenian genocide. And by the way, I'm a social democrat, moron. And do you have an actual counter-argument to justify such an cruel reaction to a joke that the band has to delete it in the end and is forced to apologize for a stupid joke. A reaction that obiously needs to be defendet and rationalized by people like Folding Ideas, who is actually quite good in rationalize ideologies and the view on the world as black and white. Asian Girlz is stupid and meaningless, but it is an example of the fall of the left leaning youth into totalitarian and anti-democratic mindsets.
Haha, the least racist just like "no one has more respect for women" than Donald Trump. The Kurds have been systematically terrorised by the Turkish state and many nationalist Turks now support ISIS just because they're killing Kurds.
I’m unable to accept that this music video exists. It’s impossible. It’s like someone left a generative machine learning algorithm unattended on 4chan for the night.
I've tried to convince myself that Limp Bizkit's cover of "Behind Blue Eyes", with the Speak-N-Spell interlude in the middle replacing the best part of the original song, doesn't exist. And then someone reminds me of it.
1:49 This is my first time seeing an angular puppet with exactly one facial expression convey so much shock and bewilderment and disgust in all of, like, two seconds.
I had no idea who this group or what this song was before the video. I saw the title and thought, "Oh this should be nice." Then he played a clip from the music video, my eyes widened, and I was like, "Mother of God, this is awful."
MogarPrime17 i also have never heard anything about this but that "butt fucking all night" line was mKing me laugh uncontrollably so bad i had to pause the video till i calmed down. its so over the top it was like when my friends and i would come up with songs for the specific purposes of offending as many people as possible
Folding Ideas It's a good demonstration of the changing perspective of orientalism in its form as originally described by Said. The middle east no longer is subject as much to the fetishization that the far east is subject to.
darryshan I have to disagree with what you're saying here. This "Oriental" riff has one million and one middle eastern counterpart leitmotif riffs that are played every time some middle eastern locale, cultural activity, or person is depicted in the mainstream media, in fact it's so pervasive that I think we almost take it for granted and have to make a definite effort of will to even notice it. I think that the real issue at hand is that the fetishization of "oriental" cultures is far less toxic than that of middle eastern cultures which I believe has largely to do with their comparatively more welcoming assimilation and embrace of globalism and Western "values". I feel like this is reflected in the emotional connotations of the musical cliches themselves: the oriental riff is cutesy and quaint while the middle eastern ones have an air of brooding mystery and menace.
One thing to point out is that the original story of Aladdin, as well as the production wherein the "oriental riff" derives, is set **in China.** Disney's version was moved to a fictional Arabian city, but the Arabic text is already orientalizing.
They could have had a decent framing device if they used their Indonesian basist as a straight man to a joke (although- lets be honest- there never was one until after people got angry). Basically, if the rest of the band was going around being racist, and the basist was just exasperated in the background, shaking his head disapprovingly, then that would give an indication of the true intent (since obviously, in something as short as a mustic video, you can't include too much that is unnecessary, thus, if it was included, it at least some significance). That would have provided the second voice that isn't just the white fetishization of 'asian girlZZZZZZZZZ'. He could be the 'third party raising an eyebrow', since he is distinct from the group visually, and they purposefully make the distinction by dressing him up as their 'math nerd friend' (the "friend I have that is X, so it makes it ok"). And it would have worked better on a base humor level as well, where the basist is trying to escape or cure them, but no one else helps cause they are totally cool with their inner giantess fetishes.
Really having the Bassist be the straight man would have made the whole thing a lot more bearable, like one of the main reasons I like Louis CK so much is that in spite of a lot of the horrible stuff he makes jokes about he constantly reiterates how horrible he is for making those same jokes. Just having some self-awareness can let you get away with a lot.
I don't understand why your channel isn't MONSTROUSLY huge. You bring to bear a rare degree of direct clarity to the thorniest of arguments. This video in particular meant a lot to me, because you've clarified and then expressed a problem I had with the Asian Girlz furore that had me in a bind. I found myself disagreeing with a friend's blunt judgement of the song/video that "It's obviously racist" because it struck me as off-the-mark. I openly agreed that the song was bad, that it was hugely problematic and the band should feel bad for it, but the accusation that it was an overt celebration of racist stereotypes and attitudes just didn't make sense to me, that their intentions were not so vile, but their execution - and subsequent handling of the fallout - was way out of bounds, and they should never have gone ahead. It put me in the uncomfortable position of defending a largely talentless band I didn't know, for a song I didn't like, against people who had every reason to be angry about it, just because I thought the true grievance was a little more nuanced than that. I regret that argument to this day, because for all that I knew I had a valid point, I was in the wrong. I wish I'd had the insight and maturity then to either express the problem as clearly as you have, or to at least not argue the finer points with people who are still reeling from genuine hurt and outrage. I'm glad there are professionals like yourself to figure out the details with empathy and authority.
@@aturchomicz821 your tastes have obviously changed. If you had been watching stuff like this channel 7 years ago, it would have recommended it to you.
I just realised them going 'rararara' to the oriental riff is another racism, where they're pretending to be asians who can't pronounce 'la la la'. I've watched this video three or four times and that one just hit me.
It's called humor. Hope you guys never accidentally see a Mel Brooks or Woody Allen movie and have to cry in your mommy's armpit about how much it hurt you.
I as a Chinese person didn't even realise the start was supposed to be Asian when I first heard it, which really does highlight the just vague handwaving of "Asian". In retrospect it does now sound like some of the old music my dad listens to but like. Vaguely
I learned about the exsistance about this song because of Jordan Adika and now i am cursed with the knowledge. Thank you for calling this out so early! It is SO fucked up!
"It's just a joke, bro!" - every deliberate racist for last decade, and also every accidental racist, which sucks because the two are being intentionally blurred together
@@thedude4840Very recently the anti-trans people have been linking trans rights with gay marriage as in “this is the result of giving gays the right to marry”. To the bigoted and racist, civil rights is a gift that they bestow. One implication is that they can withdraw the gift if the recipient gets too uppity or takes it too far. And that’s a linkage between casual bigotry and institutionalized bigotry.
That song is one of the most unbelievably obnoxious things I've ever seen/heard. I didn't know humans could be that repulsively racist, sexist, arrogant, and unfunny all at once.
I knew all that, I had just forgotten they could be so horrifyingly earnest at the same time, when they genuinely expect you (this is a generalized 'you', meant to apply to most of us watching them in appalled disbelieving silence) to fully agree with and support them. And are sincerely surprised that you don't. Before the offended self-pitying I'm-the-REAL-victim-here whining and/or defensive pseudo-elitist 'artiste' scorn kicks in, I mean.
Had no idea that riff was a western origin. The first place I heard it (or a variation of it) was in Super Mario Land. I’ve always thought it seemed like a little bit racist but since I first knew it as being used by a Japanese composer I figured it must actually be from or based on an actual Japanese song form or musical scale.
Imagine this: Cold open on a dirty desk, empty cans and chip crumbs stuck in a keyboard, before zooming in on the monitor. On it is a fake adult website, called Asian Girlz, with a bunch of screenshots of Asian women doing banal things, walking, talking on a cell phone, eating... then the riff starts. That would set the framing of satire, at least a little. Sure, there is more you could change, like the women in the video showing actual disgust for being so sexualized for just existing, but that's neither here nor there.
Can we talk about Kirsten Dunst's cover of Turning Japanese? It was a lower-key attempt at something similar (even used the Asian Riff for an intro) but, somehow, worked. I can't explain what it does differently, but it feels completely different. It's a great song and music video.
You have great content. I get my film making lessons here, story telling/writing effectiveness lessons AND social lessons on satire, too! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼😂🙈🙊🙉🐒🐒
I have a feeling that people don't really know what "racism" means, or rather, they have different definitions that make the conversations a bit difficult.
@@MrBeiragua The problem with words is that they tend to mean different things to different people, so centering a discussion on a word can often involve a lot of pointless quibbling over what exactly each side means when they say it, and results in each side talking "past each" other or "at each other," as opposed to talking "to each other." But unfortunately, the alternative - discussing things after hashing out what the relevant terms mean - is not the kind of thing that is easy to engage in or facilitate between strangers, especially those who are predisposed to disagree with one another and it's even worse on the internet.
I think a good example of a band that otherwise could be associated under an offensive context, spesifically a sexist one, but has enough self awareness and understanding of satire to be respectful anyways is Ninja Sex Party. For those who aren't nsp or game grumps fans, the main singer plays the fictional character of Danny Sexbang, a sex crazed super hero whose always trying to get into women's pants but fails due to his very obvious objectification and idiocy, and forces around him are either trying to undermine or punish him for his stupidity or at the very least call him out on it, even if it's indirect. And it works because the humor is played just enough that everyone knows even when Danny is trying to "impress the ladies," hes still an overcompensating loser, and a fun to laugh at one at that.
I wonder if they were ripping off and misunderstanding David Bowie's 'China Girl.' Which seems to be exotifying Chinese women until you listen closely to the lyrics. It still uses that riff, but it is a criticism of this sort of fetishisation. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-E_8IXx4tsus.html And, you know. It's David Bowie.
Kai Sea Excuse me, I read your comment and thought you might find this article interesting bowiesongs.wordpress.com/2011/01/26/china-girl It's from a blog set on thoroughly analizing every song in Bowie's catalog. The article shares and expands your point I think. It was actually Iggy Pop who wrote the lyrics (the song was co written by Iggy and Bowie for Iggy's album The Idiot, which came out seven years before Bowie recorded his own version) and it serves both as a satire on the cultural reduction of Asian women and an exorcism of Iggy's own sense of Western superiority and bravado. I highly recommend that you check that blog out, it's a fantastic read.
I could only defend something like this on the basis of it being deliberately horrible. Every artist does this at some point; we explore our dark side and do an uncharacteristic piece that is utterly nasty and reprehensible and without any obvious redeeming value. AND YET. Most of us then take this piece and throw it into a folder or a box in the attic, or maybe just delete it, and never show it to anyone. I think a good question is, what made this band think it was really, seriously important for the world to hear this song?
It's not that they think it's important for the world to hear, see, consume it. It's that they thought the audience was primarily composed of people who live & think like them, who would support it, and that the 'haters' were a small to non-existant percentage of the population whom they could ignore while sharing a money-making good-ol'-boys laugh with the rest. . In other words, they thought their 'us' outnumbered the rest of ours, and that our 'them' would be meeker & quieter about it all.
At the time this was published, "trans*" was more or less the accepted standard with the asterisk being a placeholder for any relevant suffix (-feminine, -masculine, -gender, etc). The asterisk was dropped around 2016 because it was seen as being kind of redundant and iirc invalidating to non-binary folks
The worst part about this, I say in 2017 having no prior awareness of this crap, is that lot of dumbass kids, or hell, racist adults are having/have had the time of their lives listening to this shit. It's one of the reasons I don't think the internet algorithm is in it's inception, or even in it's execution entirely detrimental to the overall experience. I don't care about this stuff, so I don't look for it, and the system, taking notice, barely exposes me to it, therefor, I carry on a less stressful life.
Sorry if you've already found an answer, but it's to act as an umbrella for various trans identities - transgender, transsexual, transman, transwoman, non-binary. It's not used quite as much anymore for reasons that I'm not quite sure of even as a trans man myself, but that's what the asterisk is for.
Hey I’m at an early point in this video, but I’m gonna try and guess what happens: The band claims that the song was a “parody” of racism as opposed to just being plain ol’ racist. Edit: ha! I was right. But my guess was a bit broad.
I _think_ it was a commonly used way to clarify that "trans" is being used as an umbrella for nonbinary people, trans men, trans women, and possibly intersex people. It may also just be a lost footnote.
Dammit. I was blissfully unaware of this band of idiots and their offensive song. Now my head is filled the head is swirling with the issue Dan so elequently and comprehensively discussed. What I really need to do is vacuum the house. I'm out.
Hey gaybutt, I miss ya Foldy RIP, i found you back on that website that we dont speak of, loved your EVA deconstruction, and this one too, Dan failed us all
Ehh.... I didn't see this when it happened, but it REALLY comes across to me from the description as satire. I don't think you NEED "comeuppance" (can be cheesy and annoying in of itself... almost implying the thing being satired ISN'T a problem because people who do it get there comeuppance anyways) or an audience surrogate to be funny. I think the real reason this fails is simply because it isn't that funny.
That's kind of this guy's point though. Satire of bad things is tricky and risky to do because if you fail (ie if you aren't clever or funny about it), you end up kinda just unintentionally pushing the bad thing you thought you were satirizing.
So late to the party, but I don't see anyone referring to 'I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so'. Is it offensive, but also funny? Could some of the referenced nation could also find it funny?
It's a joke... if you're incredibly loose about what counts as a joke. This "joke" is only funny to people that have the right context, so.. just the band. It's an inside joke. And inside jokes stay "inside" because there is no context "outside". I haven't watched Family Guy but I rarely see people getting mad about that, so I assume there's proper framing to contextualize the joke.
Never heard of this before. Honestly came in thinking it was probably a PC overreaction to a piece of controversial art. Then you showed a clip. Holy fuckin' shit. I guess we need even more SJWs...
"... satire of white men fetishizing Asian women..." what? am I the only one seeing how is this a satire on hiphop crap of the same nature? there like 5 songs literally called "white girl". like this one ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-na3HwfWi7RM.html it's the same thing as "show me your genitals" song, only that not only specifically mocks sexism of gangsta "culture", but also the examples when it also racist towards white women... ohhh, but wait, black people can't be racist and white people can't ever possibly be targets of racism, my bad. sorry, I must be alt right or something... jfc, I miss the times when people understood satire and didn't spend all their time looking for something to be triggered about...
Yeah you are the only one seeing that, because for that to work the song would have to be a hip hop song, the lyrics would have to reference other hip hop songs in some way, and why choose Asian women as the subject? It’s not Asians who make hip hop
@@nykcarnsew2238 > why choose Asian women as the subject? ooh, idunno, to make people self-reflect? shift the frame of reference out of the woke echo chamber? give people a chance to realize their hypocrisy? but since it's not hiphop - it can not possibly be that. only hiphop and rnb can get away with all the -isms. wait, isn't that a bit raisis to imply, mmm?
@@baburik Surely if you were trying to parody black male musicians' fetishisation of white women the logical way - as a white male musician - would be to joke about fetishising black women, I don't see why you'd randomly go for Asians
@@nykcarnsew2238 because rasim exists solely inside the black/white paradigm, riiiite? also I never said "parody" - I said "satire". maybe google the definition?
@@baburik you’re the one who claimed this song was satirising black hip hop artists’ relationship to white people, I’m focusing on the “black/white paradigm” because you brought it up. So I ask again, if this song is supposed to satirise hip hop, why make the subject Asian women? It’s not Asians making hip hop
