Some characters are high execution or have a specific style. So that is valid. Saying that essentially no one knows how to use a character and that's why they aren't low tier, now that's where it gets iffy
It has happened before, where people were using the character without exploiting certain things that are good. One example that comes to mind is Piercing Mileena from MKX. FoxyGrandpa had to show everyone what a neutral monster she was because everyone else was still playing her as a pressure character.
Honestly there are times where a character does something better than the rest of the cast in something, like space control or damage per turn, but are so bad in everything else like frame data or mobility that the negatives heavily outweigh the positives
I think skarlet might’ve had the best space control in all of the tournament variations with blood drive, but everything else was so bad if you faced a counter pick or someone like ninjakilla you couldn’t win with her bcuz her space control wouldn’t be worth anything if you couldn’t get the time to throw blood balls and tentacles
On the other hand, top tier mains be like "I have fun with this character. They fit my playstyle." *they get nerfed slightly, they switch to the next best character "Yeah my old character just isn't fun to play anymore. Having a lot of fun with this one though. WINNING is their playstyle.
@John Scott Sure winning is fun. But normies can't tell the difference between enjoying a playstyle and just accidentally steamrolling an opponent with an easy to pick up character. That's the annoying thing I'm trying to describe here.
Everything that is not top or good is bad in a fighting game. that is the reality and that is why they should buff the other characters to the same level of the top characters and not nerf. Nerf is easy and the lazy and faster way out of the problem. It also kill characters like they did it with Nash.
Sometimes the "the right people have to play that character" argument is true, though. It only takes one player playing nutty with an underused character to change everyone's tier list/perception of that character.
I don't know if you guys follow the Sm4sh community, but there's a kid called MKLeo. Used a low-tier character, and won a major. Literally everyone thought this character was trash until he came along.
Matthew Morrison That's Smash tho. In Smash a lot of the community are knob tier whores. They never even tried to give Marth, Roy, Lucas, etc a chance. And then one guy uses them well " o hes top tieerrrrr." Granted, sometimes that isn't always the case.
Waiiit Marth wasn't seen as Low Tier by most Smash 4 Pro Players. When Marth got buffed, and no pros played him cause they found their mains, but they thought he was likely low key good. Zero for example used to sing Marth's praises.
Sajam with the realest words! In Injustice 1 local Batman player (pre-patch) turned Martian kept telling me Joker was a not a bad character and to stick with him. Almost used every line you said word for word, and for a while, I was convinced. The guy was a seasoned NRS vet and I was new to NRS fighters, what did I know. Man, not falling for that again. Trying to tell me the same BS in IJ2; nah fam. We not doing this again.
You're probably right. Even what I consider to be the worst of the worst when it comes to fighting game characters, UMvC3's Hsien-Ko has some good parts. You just need to exploit that
You're lying to yourself. Joking aside though, even the worst characters have at least one good thing about them. Like, I think Juri is pretty awful in SFV but her VSkill seems like it could work in a few situations, and she has a great standing medium kick.
What about, every time you body your friends they insist that the character is top tier and never give *you* credit. Even if the tier list puts your character at mid or low? I hate that lame-o shit. Just accept you're less than me.
I have a buddy who plays like all the top tier characters. Urien, ibuki, Cammy. I played literally Nash from season 1 all the way to 2.5 and just recently switched to Laura. And I body him so much that he stopped playing me. Lol. He’s like, “Nash’s neutral so stupid.” I’m like.. urien? Ibuki? Like you have no reason not to press St. Hp with urien or St. HK with ibuki? And all your characters have a DP. Lol. No excuses.
As a dedicated Juri main, these are my exact words...as I continue to run up a mountain to get wins, while other people only have to run up a hill :V Haha. But yeah, it's true tho. The low tier struggle is real
Ikr, in S1 I played Rashid, Ibuki and Laura, then in season 2 those 3 characters got buffed so much, and I was always thinking "why? They are fucking strong allready lol"
Especially when with Laura in Season 1. I thought she was strong as hell, but just knew about her strong VT resets and stuff. Then she got one big buff in S2 and everyone bitches about her all of a sudden. Lmao
Some of the characters have higher ceilings than others (Juri, Fang), some got their key strength taken away due to overall game mechanic rebalancing (Ryu with his throw loops). The latter is easier to fix, the former may be a question of how long the game gets competitive play before it is surpassed or significantly changed.
it is partly true tho. there are plenty of characters in fighting games that can be really good, but they are just too hard for a lot of people to use effectively. my brother-in-law is one of those that would master hard to play characters and destroy everyone with the complexity.
I legit say that the wrong people play characters. "ryu isn't that bad, but no good player uses him because why would they pick him over someone who gains more of the same situations. " but I do at least tell folks to pick another character. "no one is making you play that character. If you're not doing well/enjoying them then change."
@@Eggroll3s he's mid at best, there are characters who do a lot of things better, I pick Ryu because I always play shotos and I love fireballs, but unfortunately most fireballs aren't too great in 3S. Ken is overall a better character for most people, hence why Ryu is lower. He isn't bad, he just has better alternatives that make him kind of irrelevant, hence why he's mid-to-low.
i feel like smash is somehow the opposite of this lol for the longest time people will tell you to play a high tier character because the tier list seems so set, then someone will upset with a "low tier" and then people realize the character has some sauce. hbox with puff, amsa with yoshi, axe with pika (and rishi with DK if u wanna throw in a more meme pick). same in ultimate lately with mii brawler winning a JPN major. i think it might just be the fact that character pick rates are way more skewed in smash because of how polarizing the tiers are in melee and because of the sheer roster size in ultimate, so that may be why it takes longer for the meta to develop on some characters.
I just don't know wat makes a character low tier or mid tier so i just look to see if they have certain tools, like zoning who's stronger then who when it comes to zoning, can they air dash and how far, can they teleport and how quick, do they have good range, on normals, wats their mix up/setup potential like, etc.
I’m a scorpion player, so I always start off with an s tier character that gets nerfed to the bottom tiers every game, but I play pocket characters for specific traits like space control or to kill sluggers so I’ll play a roster of bottom tier characters, but have every character serve a specific purpose
It depends on multiple situations if a character is bad or not. Also not having versatility doesn’t mean a character is bad. It’s like how in soul caliber 5 Tira was considered one of the weakest character and someone played a tournament and won. The factor isn’t about the fact they won, it was a situation of the options he chose and the ways he responded to action that he proved it wasn’t a bad character and now she’s considered top tier. Ignore this I’m just giving my opinion
I think it's a bit of an exaggerate to say that if someone says any of stuff it is because they don't want you to succeed, like it's the case for every single similar scenario.
I drop low tier even if the character feels good and I love the design. I'm not good enough to counter the character's weakness. But I do play Makoto in BBCF...with Jubei in pocket.
As a former Game&Watch main in Melee can confirm. Dw when i play Melee i go Samus now Edit: I was the one saying those phrases because i genuinely believed (still kinda do tbh) in G&W
I find when it comes to most SF games - if the character is fun to play, they're at best mid-tier but mostly likely bottom 5. You need to find that character that you can just start mashing in your first experience with the character and immediately be like "Oh damn, that normal is fucking busted."
People ALWAYS underestimate the time players had to mess with characters, in general. All those things you were saying, are things people were saying about Ibuki, Rashid, Bison, Birdie, Guile, Balrog... Do you even remember how Ibuki was "the weakest of the cast" and how it suddenly became the strongest (at least considering Japan general thoughts about meta) even BEFORE any changes were made, ie before s2? I think being reserved is more important and more often correct than being "da realest and bold". We are having complete meta shifts in the game with no patching whatsoever.
mrdoolio Very true. Like the time Justin Wong said adon is garbage, then he got wrecked by gamer bee's adon. After that, everybody and their momma was trying to learn adon.
kollie79 let's hope they add an overhead. Then he will be complete in my opinion. I still do manage to win a lot more with him than other characters though.
Soooo because I dont want to usr Guile that means he’s low tier? See what I did there. I wont use Urien either. I’m not ignoring that fact that their are low tiers but just because someone wont use a character doesnt mean theyre low tier.
XX ABA is second to bottom tier only being beaten out by basically a joke character and despite that she has every tool under the sun in XX. If there's some sort of mechanic in the game, she has the toolset, she's just borderline psychotically hard. Maybe you need to be AS insane as her to even attempt to main ABA.
I think makoto is the worst character in sf iv series. But everytime I say that someone will say "BUT DUDE, SHE HAS THE DAMAGE OUTPUT. BUT DUDE HER ULTRA DOES 600 DAMAGE WHEN SUPER IS ACTIVE. Yeah, meanwhile evil ryu does 450 damage in a combo wasting 3 bars on red focus, has a good anti air, a fireball, a teleport, decent normals...
Question. Didn’t infiltration win a tournament after beating 3 of the 4 rashid gods, clean? (Some 3/5 matches, they had ample time to “adapt to the gimmicks”). After taking a large break from the scene? Isn’t rashid one of juri’s worst match up? Ever? Am I to believe that infiltration was just THAT much better then them that he could have beaten them with a wooden stick thereby completely disregard the possible potential that Juri may posses in a tournament atmosphere? What do ya’ll think?
saotomebuster As a Juri main, Juri is not a trash character, but just isn't up to par with the others. Plus Infiltration is in my opinion the best SF5 player out there. He was able to bring out the small potential Juri has and won
How is that not true that characters go underdeveloped though? People were surprised that Luffy won with Rose in SF4. I sure as fuck wasn't. That character has all the tools a certain type of player needs. Or FAB single handedly putting Potemkin into high tier during Accent Core Plus. I get it but I don't sgree with you.
zHawken Austin yeah Ansa turned yoshi from low tier to mid tier in smash bros ( cant remember which one) so i dont rely on the tier list a lot i only play characters that feel right i only look at look tier lists to see if my main is a low tier and if he is then feel good about being boss at a low tier character.
Holy shit. My friend plays Kano in MK11. Widely held to be one of if not the worst. I always say 'he has good tools dude I don't know.' I ONLY play tippy top tiers I can fucking pick them a mile away while they are still cooking up the game.
"X character wasn't low tier he was good but just not broken as shit like the other characters" ...tiers are ways to compare a character to other characters inside their own game bro. You can't just act like, "oh well in any other game he'd be good so that means he's not bad in this game" lol
A good friend will also tell you to switch characters when a character is too HARD for you... one of my best buds plays Tekken 7 with me all the time, he loves Kazuya, but he is fucking terrible at doing EWGF and other wave dash inputs, and the Mishimas are all heavily dependent on those inputs. Like, I'm kicking his ass with shitty characters like Lars and Kuma and shit on his favorite character. I keep telling him, "maybe you should pick up Sergei or Brian or someone good that isn't crazy fucking hard" lol
never cared bout tiers or any of what folks try to go by. I can beat 6 ryus back to back and folks say he trash but here comes that one Ryu player that swats my ass... tiers are trash, your gameplay rules. if anyone gonna use tiers...know what level tier a character falls under. Mobility, Damage and strength. Those are the first to go by, next is combos, setups and space advantages ( projectile or just reach) characters that have better standards at a bigger value base are high, characters that have balance among those more so are mid and low tiers have more work to do to do more damage but advantage may be they can combo chain better in setups game. Once you boil a character down to those aspects you will know where they sit at...but never underestimate anybody with any of them....ever.
watching this in 2020, Ryu is considered bottom 5 in SFV I feel like hes a solid character and I would play him, except I find his play style a little boring. I played Kage on the side when he was considered trash solely because of how fun he was
A hightier character is someone, where you can abuse mechanics in reapeting patterns and turn of most of your active brainwork, where you have lesser to adaptation, cause abusive patterns can counter most situations, why its more a passive brainwork. A low tier character is someone, where you cant abuse mechanics and must adapt more, be creative in every situation, randomize, fake ...more active brainwork.
Genius I partially disagree. Sometimes a top tier character either has a shitload of GOOD resources that make him/her overal ahead of anyone else like poison in usf iv and sometimes a top tier character is so specialized in x thing that it just makes him miles ahead of the rest of the cast, like magneto in mvc2. As for low tier characters they just have 1 thing that is sometimes only decent (and some mid tier character does it better).
I mean honestly i love videl in dbfz.... Sorry talk shit i will accept any hate twords the character and i can 100% agree shes npt good in comparison and her defense is hella lacking because of the bo reflect but i also play stronger characters in the team. i dunno why but shes just fun to me....
