IVF, Surrogacy, and Infertility: A Thoughtful Christian Approach 

We know that pain. We spent years trying to decide how “far” to go in infertility treatment. In the end we chose very little intervention and went with adoption. The reasons are all the reasons you talk about in this video. I could not stand the thought of one of our babies being outside my womb and harmed in the lab. Or the lab lying to us about how many were created. Or the thought of one of our babies suspended in time through freezing. I just couldn’t handle those thoughts and had no peace about it. My precious precious babies are God’s beautiful gift through adoption. I wish more believers would think through this more.

Thanks for doing a session on this topic! It’s sooooo near and dear to my heart. My husband and I have dealt with fertility issues for at least 3 years. We struggle with “subfertility” meaning that he produces sperm, but with an inadequate number and motility. We spoke to an IVF doc and a restorative reproductive doctor as well. We ultimately chose to pursue restorative fertility for many of the reasons voiced in this video. You gave words to my feelings of objection! Thank you! I can say now that I’m so grateful that we didn’t choose IVF. One reason is because it led us down a road to be foster parents. I now know that I can be satisfied without children and also without biological children. When you talked about idolizing children and pregnancy I can relate! I did that for so long and it led me down a very unhappy road. I allowed God to heal my heart and restore to me the joy of life even without children. Thanks for approaching such a sensitive subject with grace and truth. I do have some soul searching to do as i am a nurse who helps consult women and men about their fertility options before starting cancer treatment as many treatments can affect the reproductive system. There are options that don’t include using egg retrieval and encourage natural childbirth of which is an option for most women. I’m encouraged and challenged at the same time. Thank you again!

I am so thankful to God for giving us the technology of IVF. It’s a miracle really and I feel very blessed that there is a chance for my husband and I to have our own children, so I’m very excited to be starting this in 2 weeks. It took us a year to think through the ethical implications, it is not easy at all but I got my message in prayer that we should proceed. Infertility is a difficult journey, the key is to remain humble, understand that we are not owed anything, including children. They are the most precious gifts, and for some of us this is not in our life plan, some need to work for this gift. At the end of the day, no child is born without God’s blessing and I don’t see how you can get punished for following God’s will to bring new children into the world. As I see it, the key is to pray for guidance from God, have good intentions for no harm, take responsibility for your actions. This includes - don’t overstimulate to get a high number of embryos when you only want 1 child and the ovarian reserve is high, don’t discard embryos that may be viable just because they are not the highest quality etc. God bless us all!

Wow, thank you so much for covering this topic. I have had questions and concerns for several years about the morality of various fertility treatments and could never find a solid biblical voice speaking to this topic. So good 🙏🏽

Thanks for having this conversation, found it to be though provoking and definitely a chance to read and learn more about it 🙌🏼

I found some of the remarks thought provoking. We have been blessed with 2 children thanks to IVF and a lot of prayer, we have a third embryo which will be thawed in the next couple of months for transfer. When we embarked on this very painful journey, we prayed long and hard about what to do, and decided on IVF, we also decided to limit the number of embryos the doctors would be allowed to create, and the decision was made at the start that whatever numbers of embryos that we had would be transferred and given the same chance that the other siblings have been given. It has not been easy but there are ethical and moral ways in which to walk this road, and while its not popular to limit the number of embryos created, or to limit the number that will be transferred this was the only way we felt we could proceed with assisted conception.

Thank you for having such thoughtful conversations!

Ugh how people just throw out, “if we can’t conceive, we will adopt” is nauseating. The purpose of adoption is not so people can grow their families who couldn’t otherwise. Adoption is not without its own ethical malaise.

Thank you so much for speaking on this topic! It is always better to be informed and make your decisions before an emotional situation arises. For example, my husband and I both made the decision that pre-marital sec was not an option while we were dating. Did we face temptation? Absolutely!! But we were able to withstand it because our pre-decided convictions that were based in what we learned from the Word of God. We were aware of the potential of temptation, and therefore we prepared for it ahead of time! Christians need to be prepared to face for a whole slew of temptations, and the emotional crisis of infertility is one of them.

Congrats on the 100k!! Love the message, biblically grounded as always

Super interesting and thoughtful discussion. I'm part of a ttc Facebook group and a conversation started about getting a sperm donor as a single woman. I am surprised at the responses. People actually think it's a good idea to bring a baby into the world as a single parent, by choice? Without downplaying the amazing single parents out there, we all need to be honest about the fact that two loving devoted parents are better than one. One commenter said "I've done it! Relationships aren't for me, but motherhood is! " How terribly sad, in my opinion. For her and the child. My daughter is very bonded to both her parents. I would never choose, or advise someone else to choose, a life for a child purposely depriving them of having a daddy. A good daddy is an irreplaceable relationship in a child's life.

I am relieved to hear that you have taken into consideration the experience. You have no idea what infertility is like until you go through it! We have been waiting for over 3 years for God to bless us with a child. We did IUI but have not done IVF, and the main reason is the expense. We would rather adopt. This episode gave me a lot to think about.

Great research & presenter you are , you have the gift of explanation & discernment, & make this hot button topic more understandable.

We have been recommended IVF just this year and infertility has been with us since we married and just doing very brief research, I found alot of ethical and moral dilemmas. So even before infertility became alot more real for us as time has gone on, it is something that we aren't comfortable going through. To be given an option to possibly have a child through this method - and refuse it for moral reasons, is as difficult as infertility has been as a journey. We also seem to be offered less sympathy because we turned it down. We both always wanted children, alot of them, to be raised in the Lord. IVF seems to be the only option offered to us and there is nowhere I can go with the pain of saying no to IVF as so often its the natural ending of infertility. Even within the church. Thank-you for the video.

Thanks for doing this interview!

Such a great session!!

I went into this video not thinking ivf was bad. How is something that was made to give us the life of a baby bad after all? God gave us science, so let's use it. As the video progressed I realized how faulty my thoughts were. Thanks Sean for this video! Doing great work!

Excellent video; Stephanie is the greatest

we need to make adoption easier and more affordable. just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD.

Thanks for talking about this! I’ve always thought more light needed to be shed on IVF, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows like people think. But i think there are potentially ethical ways to go about it…

I really appreciate this entire conversation. As an RN in the critical care environment, this kind of thing is so out of my wheelhouse. I wholeheartedly agree with every point. SO so awesome. Great points beyond my knowledge base. So grateful to have been informed. I always have believed that no matter how a person got here, they were all authored by God but the list love, lust, violence or technology...we all have worth because we all were created by God. I'd highly recommend the book, Nine Months with Cerian By Sara Williams...it's not really about abortion per se but about how one woman's experience finding out she was carrying a child who would never live. INCREDIBLE, life changing book. Thanks ya'll!! EXCELLENT talk!!

Great discussion. 👍 Thank you both 🙏

Powerful interview. I just had a cousin go through this process and was wondering about this.

Hi Sean, any chance you can start uploading these interviews on Spotify? I would love to be able to download them and listen while driving.

Great interview. Many thought provoking points to consider. It is clear that she has thought through this very carefully. The odds of any one couple conceiving through IVF are (as I understand) less than ideal currently. This is one of the reasons why many couples have to go through the process multiple times before they can be successful. I would think because of the stress and pain this may cause that many people would pursue the restorative medicine route she references as a first option. My guess is that for many couples who go for IVF, it is probably the only route realistically available for them to conceive. I get the sense that for many of these people, Stephanie's model will be unconvincing/unfulfilling.

Great the comment about Restorative Medicine. Great, really. Can you make a more extensive session about that? Thank you.

I love your clear thinking. I would be interested in your comments on the ethics of different types of contraception eg emergency contraception and intra uterine devices. Thank you

This lady has some extreme views on IVF. I would support any couple’s choice to use this tool if they’re struggling with infertility and it’s recommended by their doctor.

Hmm, I have to disagree with her final conclusion that all forms of Ivf are wrong (sinful basically). In the case that a single embryo is created (which, by the way, is still ultimately created by God even if it occurred outside of a woman’s body) and then directly implanted, I don’t feel her argument is strong enough to call that wrong. Ultimately, God still does decide whether the embryo will implant successfully, or not. So, her argument about how it’s wrong to take matters into one’s own hands to have a child, isn’t quite accurate knowing that God still does get a final say. I imagine she’d be fine with someone who wasn’t blessed with a child, deciding to take matters into their own hands by adopting.

In my opinion, this should be a matter of personal convictions, especially in the case where there are no excess embryos produced in the process. The argument against IVF on the basis of "defying God's will" by using technology to overcome a physical limitation does not hold water to me, as we are literally using a technology to overcome the physical limitations on our ability to converse with one another over long distances.

While the discussion about the ethics is pretty good, the "right to develop alongside its peers" seems far-fetched.

I just wanted to ask a question for this video. Have not finished it but it is rather interesting and relevant to a assessment topic that I am focusing on. What denomination do you guys fall under? Would greatly appreciate it.

I love her!

Very interesting

Thanks!

Okay! I’m impressed! I’m happy you were able to touch on this! This is the only way to consistently defend that life begins at conception in the abortion debate. Now, I consider myself pro life, but I do not hold the view that life begins at conception. I would say that it begins when there is brain activity. Therefore, thankfully, I don’t need to deal with the IVF issue. But it’s nice to hear some consistency from the pro life people who believe life begins at conception. I would say, though, that your position is a painful hill to die on. I wonder if it’s needless…

Dr Sean, I want to say you are one of my favorite apologists. I appreciate your extremely thoughtful views on topics. And your willingness to empathize with, while confronting, opposing viewpoints is very admirable. I subscribe to your channel and try to watch ever video you release. With that being said, the viewpoint proscribed by Stephanie in this interview is the most despicable I’ve seen you platform. As someone in a family/marriage that has gone though IVF, twice, I have some experience. We spoke with and interviewed many doctors and hospitals about the process. It is embarrassing how many blatantly untruthful (or ignorant) claims and assertions that she made during this interview. No doctor is recommending putting in 5 embrios at a time. No one. We had to beg our doctor to put in 2 both times. And that was the most they would allow, even though they recommended only one. Her correlation of a person struggling with being conceived from rape, to that of one being born into a loving family using science and technology, is intellectually dishonest. Both of my children know they were born through IVF. And they know Mommy and Daddy did it in a safe and responsible way for them to have a life. And they are grateful for it. Her comments about freezing a 5 day old embryo (that is smaller than a pen dot and is weeks away from having a heartbeat) as being “inhumane” are just plain asinine and ridiculous. To think that a 5 day embryo has the capacity of consciousness and feelings, long before having a heartbeat, is absurd. If everything she believes about conception and the value of unborn life is true, then God is the greatest abortionist/killer of unborn children of all. Far more than half of all conceptions end before the mother even knows she was ever pregnant. And another half don’t make it past the first trimester. Although I vehemently disagree with the late Christopher Hitchens in this point, this is the example that he is referencing when he says religion poisons everything. How someone who is as good at heart as Stephanie probably is, can be so cold-hearted and evil in her assertions is because her version of religion/theology tells her so.

I always felt that if pregnancy didn't come naturally then I would try to adopt. I never felt IVF was right, or for me. I'm always willing to learn though. I think many people get offended because we all love someone who was a test tube baby, and we wouldn't want life without them. It's a little tricky for sure.

Fascinating and so thought provoking. Thank you for sharing.

This was a fascinating discussion. I agree that IVF in it’s current form, is not good for the moral and ethical reasoning that was mentioned. My only have two things I would push back on. One is the Trinity analogy to conception. Because to say that bringing a child into the family outside of that is wrong, means that adoption would be wrong. My other pushback would be about people choosing to have children or not. Let me start off by saying that I believe that life starts at conception, and that I believe abortion is wrong for multiple reasons. I agree that anything can become an idol for people, including things like marriage, singleness, and having/not having children. God also made us an intelligent species and there are completely natural ways to lower chances of conception. People have been doing that for thousands of years, partially because pregnancy and delivery used to be incredibly dangerous for both the child and mother. Those would be the only two things I would push back on though.

I don't agree with all her points but she is a very smart woman.

This is all so interesting! What i thnk would be interesting, to steel man the opposing view, would be applying these arguments then to adoption, i.e. choosing characteristics, the "right" to a child, the concept that God's design for children to be born into marriages, etc.

So wait, you’re saying it’s wrong at all times? A bit of a dispassionate talk from people who seem to have little emotional skin in the game. Feelings aside surely technology could be used better without the issues involved. People are trying to creat life not destroy it like abortion? An unjust means to an end - Sean? So glad you both got what you want, great, anyone else, oh well too bad 🤷 ? The whole thing about the hands of a stranger is silly because is God not control of everything, all of of a sudden God is limited?

Husband was impotent but didn't hear you address this?

Could you say, what are the things that can be done, that can sanctify, as she said, IVF? Ι agree with everything she said,BUT the oursourcing to a third person. That is helping, mediating, not outsourcing really. Thank you.

Minor pointː Just as a principle or an axiom for Biblical Christian ethics for human beings, I question this reference to the Trinity as a prescriptive rubric. On the one hand, I agree with the vast majority of what is said in this video. On the other hand, I think it may be over-reaching to say that all human action (or all human interaction/relationships) is supposed to directly or indirectly mirror the Trinity in some way. Should we really think that way about all of human life and action? If so, why? What evidence do we have that some kind of pattern resembling the Trinity is hard-coded into God's creation, whether in us as His image-bearers or in other products of His creation? This is a vastly broader topic in application than this video (though perhaps simpler as a stated principle), but to what extent should the Trinity serve as a model and an analogy for discovering ethical practice for humans? We're supposed to image God in ethical character (and perhaps in other ways, too), but clearly we are not God in nature/essence (nor even functionally in) mirroring all particulars of His being and how He relates to Himself. So, I wonder whether the analogy to God's being is being taken too far here. Is Connors just making ethical claims based on an aesthetic of symmetry or similarity to God in a way (i.e. human reproduction) that is actually unnatural to human beings? Does being made in the image of God somehow necessarily require human beings in their nature or in their interactions (even with each other) to reflect/image the Trinity in some way(s)? I'm skeptical of such a claim without good arguments and/or proof. God does explicitly command us to "Be holy as I am holy," but does any of the Biblical text anywhere imply that we are to "be Trinity as He is Trinity"?

Since it was conspicuously omitted from the broadcast, I present the real reason why Catholic apologist Stephanie Connors believes in the immorality of IVF. Donum Vitae, 1987, Section I subsections 2-6. John Ratzinger (et al).

There are some harsh words in this comment feed. This is a very interesting topic. Love hearing all the points. They all make sense but I need to think through it some more before making any conclusions. Very complicated and delicate topic for sure.

i want to note the marked lack of direct scriptural references. when scripture is mentioned a large degree of personal interpretation is inserted. I am frustrated by this. I will ask god myself what is right for me and my family, he knows our hearts and desires.

So are children that were adopted ( which is very expensive) just “objects” that were bought/sold?!?

IVF is close to my heart as both my daughters were conceived through IVF, 16 and 13 years ago. I found some of Stephanie's language strange. Calling an embryo a 'baby' and also calling them children. Also saying that by freezing an embryo you are denying them something. My second child was from a frozen embryo from our 1st round of ivf. I'm pretty sure her existence hasn't been denied anything. In fact she wouldn't even be here were it not for IVF. We were incredibly lucky and blessed that both ivf cycles worked first time. I was not a Christian at the time, but looking back I feel God was in the whole process. All embryos formed were implanted and none were left over or destroyed. Some key questions were not covered. Eg is IVF a God-given gift? Are other medical treatments God given? Take to an extreme, would you not give someone medical treatment because you are denying them a natural course of the illness? No, of.course not. If God is in ultimate control, he must know what embryos will form and therefore which ones are successful? He knew my daughters names way before they were conceived. And I thank God every day that they are here 🙏

I continue to be deeply thankful for the beautiful theology of the body that our Catholic brothers and sisters uphold. I'm curious, does anyone know if there has been any research done on potential attachment differences in children conceived naturally vs via IVF?

What about Christian marketing business working for this IVF hospitals along with other hospitals... I think it's wrong but other people i know are working to market IVF hospitals

Short answer. It depends. Premise 1. Embryos/Fetuses/Babies/zygotes are people from conception. Do they kill embryos, or create embryos and leave them indefinitely stored in cryo until they kill them...then no it is not morally right. If they fertilize one embryo and then implant. Then imo that is a similar process to natural conception and implantation. I would suggest it is not morally wrong. This is before looking at the show. I'll see if my views are adjusted afterward.

My husband and I are trying to conceive for a while we are waiting on the Lord. I was convicted with this and another Allie Beth interview on that. It can be painful to know that but I want please God! I don’t want idolize wanting a baby more pleasing God! I be seen so many that do Ivfs tried many times and doesn’t work both couple get frustrated..

I don't think ivf is bad for couples dealing with infertility. I think ivf is wrong when is used to pick the gender and also when they "discard bad embryos"

What is the strongest evidence that god exists?

I am a Christian and value some of the ethical concerns that has been brought up. Both my wife and I have decided to pursue IVF. I will have to respectfully disagree as the logic this implies would also mean condoms are an issue but in fact, they are not. If you look at the other side of the coin, Jesus, Adam and Eve also bypassed the normal covenant that marriage brings for children.

I have a really important question…so babies made from ivf how are they accounted for in terms of names written in the book of life considering they weren’t necessarily in God’s plan from the beginning but instead a result of a sinful act?

Interesting topic that isn't much discussed. It is true that many embryos are killed in the IVF process. But in the case of infertility, doesn't it matter that with IVF you get one or two living humans, even at the cost of maybe tens of embryos that didn't make it, while the unfertile couple would never produce any living humans. So yes, you could say potential life is killed in the process, but in the end the fact that more life is created due to IVF must count for something too, no?

My question is has anyone looked into the fact that masturbation is done in the process of obtaining sperm for ivf? From a Christian standpoint do you both believe that is sinful? Do ivf specialists allow sperm to be retrieved without masturbation?

Wow thank you for this! I didn't have strong opinions on IVF or surrogacy, but these arguments make sense to me. Going in, I think my biggest objection would be that it isn't natural, which isn't a well thought out argument at all - just a gut feeling. I didn't know that embryos were frozen, or that so many would be made and then potentially killed. I also appreciate your question, Sean, about whether it would be acceptable if only 1 embryo were made at a time because that was my biggest question. I also wanted to thank you both for approaching this with understanding and sensitivity. Infertility is such a deeply personal and hurtful issue, and it's important not to villainize people who are really just seeking out ways to potentially fulfill a natural and even Godly desire. I think we can all understand how someone in that position might be willing to try just about anything, even if we disagree with the resources they decide to use.

So, essentially the argument is: 1) Human persons have intrinsic value (they are subjects not objects). 2) We have a moral obligation to treat other human persons with dignity and respect (as subjects not objects). 3) The practice of IVF devalues human beings, by treating them as commodities (objects) which can be manufactured, bought, sold, or traded. 4) Therefore, IVF is an immortal practice. Is that a correct summary?

I think the strongest message is the ideal circumstance of a mother reproducing with a father and there being immense value in the loving relationship producing life. While not restricting or denying the value of person that is the product of unideal conception we shouldn't be quick to engineer an outcome without natural circumstances. There is a quick solve to the half sister half brother marriage, exchange of dna documents or agree not to reproduce due to the risk of mental illness. Gattaca is a great film to watch for those thinking about tube children. I watched it again recently and it seems relevant in its context.

What about women who married later in life like her; Stephanie & their egg quality is stated as most likely unhealthy? Still no ivf? What if plenty eggs etc but implantation hasn’t happened in two plus years? What restorative medicine is there for lack of implantation? What about low sperm count? Ivf not restorative in that case? Could you ask her about the “surplus” eggs/embryos sitting on ice. Should Christians not aim to adopt any of these children? How much so is adoption of God? We’re adopted; engrafted in to His kingdom. Should Christians not adopt ivf created babies/eggs/embryos? She came off a bit prideful seems because she was fortunate to have a child in a late marriage but didn’t consider too well, those struggling with the aforementioned. Where can we find her to ask her questions? I couldn’t find any social media for her.

Wow. This was gut wrenching honestly. I always heard people against IVF and surrogacy and thought to myself “what’s the big deal?”. Now I know more details and it males sense wow. I’ll just have children when and of God allows.

As a religious Jew, I found this very interesting on several levels. I think one of the main differences between the view expressed here and the Jewish approach is the issue of having a right to a child. For sure, this (very understandable) feeling exists among Jews too but for Torah-observant Jews, it's not a question of right at all but rather, of obligation. The first commandment in the Hebrew Bible (to all humankind) is to be fruitful and multiply. We don't have the right to do so - we are commanded to do so. This view naturally influences the approach to IVF - for sure there are restrictions and proper ways to do it (and other factors related to the general issue of having children) but in general, we are encouraged to utilize this wonderful (miraculous?) modern technology to fulfill God's command. Regarding the issue of reducing the number of fertilized embryos (whether frozen or not), Judaism considers a "human life" to be viable after 40 days and a 4-5 day-old embryo consisting of a few cells is certainly not a "human being".

Glad to see a pro life proponent addressing IVF. I always felt it was inconsistent for people to protest abortion clinics but not IVF clinics when perhaps (?) far more embryos are destroyed via IVF.

I would recommend looking at the cancer risk for the kids and the mom. First things that comes up I don't think is fully truthful since I've looked up how likely women are to have cancer and it was in the 30s%.

Ok so I agree that its wrong with how they go about IVF by reducing the preagnancy and experimenting with the embryos. But I still think it could be ok If it was made more humane.

I'm convinced by most of this video. But I don't really see how being frozen for 10 years is inherently wrong. I also don't think the incest angle is that great because that could easily happen with adoption too. Also, just as a question, what if someone wanted to do IVF because of the fact that there are already children in existence, so they might as well try to bring it to term rather than let it be experimented on? Otherwise, I'm on board with the point of the video.

One thing I’ve realised about American Christianity, being from South Africa, is that you guys deal with, advocate for or debate a lot of stuff that for the rest of the world it’s usually personal conviction issues. And being on the outside looking in, you can see how the day’s politics affects people’s ministries. My wife and I prayed and read up on this issue of IVF for 2 years and we didn’t feel the Holy Spirit lead us away from it at all. Luckily we conceived last year. But her pregnancy was not great, Drs said her second might be worse. The issue of surrogacy is very much on the table for when we try again for the second. All I’m saying is that everyone in the world knows American politics and how they permeate the church there, so we can see through that or take such issues with a pinch of salt

I needed this. You gave my feelings & instincts words that I was unable to articulate. IVF did not seem honoring to God & we chose adoption 20+ years ago. Our 2 children are from different bio parents & both were diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders. I'm not proud to admit there were times I have questioned our decision to not go the IVF route as our lives were often overwhelmed & we suffered much isolation due to the autism. The biblical words you spoke were clear, affirming & encouraging. Thank you.

What's the difference between killing a fertilized egg and an unfertilized egg. Both are alive and have the potential to become human adults. Why is it ok to kill an unfertilized egg but not a fertilized one.

Let alone, I also.feel and think that also God is the one, who allows in the end for the IVF to succed. You can not have a child, without God's permission. Could she describe an ethic IVF please? A one that doesn't harm ebryos at all. Thank you.

There should be some more thought put into this topic from a Christian point of view. I was a test tube baby and frozen for 2 years, and it's what really got me interested in science. Though I agree that when it comes to explaining a Christian stance in gray areas such as this it is good to play it safe, I think it would suite those who are interested in this topic to be presented with more of the uncertainties present. This way we can delve deaper into the issue and really parse out the details within IVF that are more controversial to Christians, and this could possibly allow for this practice to continue in a Christian manner.

At times it seems her message is IVF is wrong. At others, it seems the message is IVF is not ideal. If it's the former, I disagree, especially when it's a married couple who are considerate and purposeful when they go through the process. If it's the latter, I would agree. An analogy: No one would say cutting off a diseased or damaged limb is wrong, but it also would not be the go-to remedy - it is typically a last resort.

I’m not sure why but something about this video was harder for me to watch than most of your other videos. I guess if Abraham and Sarah had access to ivf then there’d be no judaism. It’s pretty similar to ivf so I can probably guess the answer but it would have been interesting to hear a question about artificial insemination.

Cheers steph for giving no ideas for option for men… blind spot maybe?

Since the birth rate has collapsed since we rejected the female role defined by the same religious worldview that informs opposition to abortion, infertility must not be ALL that bad.

As an RN and Christian woman I believe IVF is a good gift from God to my son and daughter-in-law. They tried to conceive several years without success. There were blocked fallopian tubes. They went to a Christian doctor who harvested sperm and eggs, Then fertilized one egg in vitro then implanted that fertilized egg. They have a healthy loving christian family. IVF is their gift from God, answer to many prayers. What about tissues grown in labs for burn victms, then discarded? Early embryonic tissue does not have heart, lungs, brain just like other tissues grown on labs that are sometimes discarded.

I am a little shocked that I listened to this because this is something I have struggled with. From what they are talking about that is not my experience. My IVF process was much different.

The only thing I don’t agree with this is she keeps calling an embryo a child… you are “freezing a child in time”… but children aren’t created until an embryo and sperm come together!

I sought out this video after the February 2024 IVF ruling in Alabama.

If God reveals that the 5 day embryo has no soul and that the soul is given at some other time, I am sure everyone will say i knew it, but intelectually convinced ourselves to know about something with not one clear bible verse advising us.

Thoughts on IUI?

This woman compares parenthood to slavery. I’m completely baffled at this.

Good I can find so many christian videos on IVF on RU-vid! It can be hard to turn to anyone with this subject. I can agree on everything when it comes to IVF, but I have a harder dilemma than most, I think.... I have a terrible genetic disease and my children risk 50% to get the same genetic condition, that means they will have tumors growing on their nerves in the future, and this disease is a slow killer to come in the world and nothing to joke about. Therefor I and my husband were offered IVF. The cruel thing with it is that those embryos who have this genetic condition will be destroyed :( and only the healthy ones will be put inside the womb. I don't know whether I should pray to God that our child will be healthy even if we do it the natural way, or pray to God that all embryos will be healthy. I saw someone else comment that they decided the amount of embryos there will be created during IVF which means they will use all of the embryos in the end - and that seems moral to me cuz none of the embryos will be destroyed, but I just can't bear the thought that if our embryos would have this genetic condition that they'd be destroyed :( adoption seems like the best option, but I truly want our own children who have pur genes. Adoption would be cool too, but I want at least one child that we have naturally. Am open to receive prayer, since God already promised we will have children - I just don't know if God meant our own, cuz God's ways are not our ways.

That is why our clinic implants merely one embryo and they help to create just a necessary few 1 to 4 little life. It is likely to loose some naturally during the process, like they are not implanting or there is a miscarriage (God`s will), but the rest 1 to 2 is usually born as there are not too many embryos created. Infertility is painful and people who is not experienced it, hardly can imagine the pain. Yet I believe, if we should have any babies (according to God`s will) we will have, if not, non of them will be born.

No.

Playing God and idolatry come in many forms in these last days…

You are finding the worst of humanity in this. You could say the same with technology. But are Christians not supposed to use either of these if they do it responsibly? Also I had a pastor who said IVF did not violate one man one woman in scripture, because it means dna specimen not the act.

No one has a right to children.

I really appreciate this conversation however I think you miss another really critical perspective on why these forms of conception are wrong - and that is the donor conceived child's. As a person adopted as a baby, I am all too aware of the trauma that is inflicted due to separation from your family of origin, growing up without genetic mirroring or knowledge of family history, and having to "pretend" for the sake of your adoptive parents that you are their natural child, denying your true identity and hiding your pain. To intentionally inflict this trauma on a person is morally wrong, yet people turn a blind eye to this and focus on the infertile couple's pain which is really not comparable.

Honestly the rights conversation was sensible but alienating down the line. The idea that an embryo has the right to age seemed like a weird point to make. I don't emotionally acknowledge like a week old embryo as a person in the same way I understand a latestage embryo or a child or a grown human but I acquiesce that I can't accept abortion as a practice as I have no say so on what is fully human or not so I can't with certainty say abortion is not murder. With that being said it seems weird to move through this conversation with a concept of rights associated with a not fully grown person. I'm not arguing removing rights from non fully grown persons but there is a stretch in my opinion regarding how we are understanding the concept of rights amongst people. Reading the bible rights seemed very subjective to the type of person or circumstance the person is in. The bible doesn't seem to comment on what are inalienable human rights beyond genesis(fruitful, domination, etc), just what is good.

I am a Christian. I am an IVF mom. This video is so bad, this video lacks first hand experience, and actual voices of those who go about this journey ethically…and to compare my son and other babies conceived by ivf to those who were conceived by rape?! I didn’t chose to be infertile…but I am thankful to God for IVF. You guys chose the most extreme cases and painted everyone with it. Why not talk about how to go about ivf. This video is so harmful. 😢 you have no idea of the pain this journey brings…no idea.😢😢😢

Christian couples able but choosing not to have a child is sinful. Ivf is sinful, though i understand unused embryos that never get to be born is just as deadly as natural conception with 23 million miscarriages occuring every year naturally.

Stephanie you're saying rubbish. IVF and other medical treatments are God's gift to man. He still knows their names even if its IVF

oversimplified reasoning as an excuse for hate. sperm = not human, egg = not human - put them together in a petri=dish - BOOOOOOOOM - a human who becomes an excuse for haters like this hater to hate.

With so many women who will experience sterility or bringing a baby to term, due to the Covid shots, I wish all women the best when starting a family.