Joseph Smith's Magic Spectacles - Dan Vogel 

P.O. poppy

Millions believed in Hitler. Millions more in Hirohito and not to mention Mussolini. Humans have an intrinsic need to be protected. To be part of something they perceive to be greater than themselves. Throw in the topics of salvation and Jesus…after this life and you’ve got a recipe for

Cults of all kinds. Welcome Joe Smith.

There’s something to it all I think. A lot of nonsense ; but the esotericism is appealing. Some truth and some garbage. Idk. I’m a Catholic. Helps me consider things about my own faith as well, and strengthen it as well. However LDS is truly a endlessly fascinating topic and a they are a lovely People who I have a lot of respect for.

@@ryanr5139 Full of kiddie-diddlers just like the CC!

R B I can't imagine the struggle people leaving or questioning a long held conception about Mormonism face. I was never in such a group but my heart goes out to you and your wife. I hope you find answers and can cope with the feelings that come with that. I'm agnostic but have never ridiculed anyone for their religious beliefs. Take care.

I don't know how long you've been a Mormon, but you have wasted your time. You never even bothered to get a real testimony and are confused by this well known information that you should have known about and resolved a long time ago. But no...Please leave on your own so we don't have to throw you out.

John Lee, you are a perfect example for the church. Don't believe the teachings? You must be confused, or misled. You never really believed. Should have found out about the contradictions, and lies long ago. The lies the church tells, and the misinformation they feed its members. You don't know a thing about me. I've done more public speaking, firesides, church meetings, stake conferences, than anyone I know. Yes, the testimony. How did Oaks put it? Tell people you believe it, even when you don't, that way you will believe it, and be able to tell more people about it. It's a cult dude. You don't see it, because you are a victim of it. So was I. You say you would throw me out? Is that what your precious apostles teach? I feel sorry for you, because like I said, you are a victim. But on a personal level. Eat shit.

Your laziness doesn't equate to deception, lies or obfuscation...it only spotlights your laziness and a desire to be free of accountability. Always glad to see the dross and offal move out. We're stronger for it. Have fun in the wilderness.

Did you read what I said? Are you too stupid to understand it? I was a member of your cult for over 40 years. Spoke to thousands of people about the "truth" of the church. THOUSANDS. Laziness? Lies? Obfuscation? Those are the tactics of the church. Not me. Dross, offal? I am leaving, but it doesn't make you stronger, or your church any more true. Or true at all. Desire to be free of accountability? Of course. You saw through me. Keep your fake Book of Abraham. The fraudulent teachings of the Book of Mormon. See you at the opening of the Book of Mormon Archaeology Museum. You know, that empty building, with no artifacts. Empty.

Be sure to start 9\10ths of every sentence with 'and' include 'come to pass' an average of 10 times per page, and over use 'beheld' and 'behold' every time someone speaks. Tryith to writith shiteth liketh thisis. You can't fail. Perhaps use an illiterate person to narrate story. Worked with Mohammed and Joseph smith.

@@rahowhero lol

Because MOM believed it...

Out of the Liar's Club and into the Outliers Club.

Great remark 👍

It's too bad that JFK came along and we all abandoned hats - otherwise lots of people could be rich from finding buried treasure and forgotten religions.

@@fritzbasset8645 Yes, haha, at least there are plenty of rocks still around, so people can continue to decipher ancient languages.

Point taken, but I'd bet my bottom dollar it was just him, the whole time!

Whatever t was or not. It was. Certainly NOT The LORD Jesus Christ

The Persecuted the tools of divination are to never be used. God condemns it and would never bring forth a prophet to speak to the people that uses them.

If I had known the same, I wouldn't have been knocking on your door.

​@@kentthalman4459😮😂😂 That needs to go on a billboard! It's perfect.

Instead of telling them to go away, show the love of Jesus to them.

Thanks. I'm glad you find them useful.

I wear spectals. Will the Mormons say they are majic

June Hendeson Only if you are a true prophetess :)

Ha ha

make up anything you want, whatever makes you happy. Its all a fairy tale that has been disproven.

Maybe he never even dictated anything with the stone and hat. It was just a parlor trick. So many deceptions; why not that too?

Great catch!

+Reverend George Good story. Thanks for sharing.

The early accounts mentioning the spectacles in the hat come from Harris, who, in more reliable sources, said it was the dark-colored seer stone. He even switched the stone. These newspaper accounts said it was the spectacles, not one of the stones. I think it is a simple matter of an outsider being confused when first hearing the story of the plates and spectacles and then being told about JS putting a stone in a hat and conflating them.

+TK “Darth Dan” xz420 Well, it took a lot of "balls" to admit it....

They don't fit in a top hat so a seer stone was substituted.

No doubt. Smith was WRONG on so many levels...

I'm not convinced a 'seer' stone was ever used within the process of translation. I believe Oliver Cowdery who claimed he used the spectacles, which would have been a more intelligible way of deciphering a foreign language, from which Joseph Smith likely eventually became fluent in. Following which time I can maybe understand better the seer stone theory that he needed enlightenment to know whether or not he was rendering a precise translation. A seer stone might have been prepared for that purpose. The spectacles it seems were necessary to interpret the foreign language, whereas the stone simply told him if he was right about what he already translated, therefore making both essential to the process. A seer stone unlikely had messages written upon it, more likely gave him inspiration about if he was doing it correctly since a light was involved. A spitmritual light would simply convey a truth of a promise. I'm guessing eventually he required neither to convey a truth. He was learning how to be a prophet. He obviously needed assistance, including a scribe, but Oliver himself was given license to translate, and I trust his rendering as accurate and probably the most honest. Emma assisted with a lost record which might not have required an it in and thummim. A seer stone likely was the means for a useless record with little purpose perhaps other than to deceive. What we got was the best of the best and if Oliver Cowdery said it necessitated an urim and thummim, I'm inclined to believe him. He was one of the three witnesses which included David Whitmer and Martin Harris. Harris mortgaged his farm for publication of 5000 copies. The Book of Mormon has only gotten more accurate with each rendering. Probably mistakes were made. What was Joseph Smith's education? Why wouldn't he use a Bible to validate parts of it? Assuming he did, of mistakes were made they could be rectified. The seer stone appear a to serve as a basis of clarification, only. The it in and thummim seem to me to be the basis by which he wrote what was in a language unfamiliar to him, or to anyone else. I don't believe Oliver Cowdery lied. I believe he told the God's truth. He had no reason to lie, IMO.

Christopher Foote Read Richard Bushman's rough stone rolling and prepare to have your world rocked. He looked in a hat with his seer stone, which cowdery also called the urim and thummim. It doesn't change the truth of the book though, just the translation process.

@@christopherfoote4643hey there, I was Mormon since birth and have been doing research on the church history now intensely now for about 6 months. Joseph had lots of reasons to lie. Joseph benefited by starting the "church" because he saw that it was a way to manipulate followers in a number of ways. One was through plural marriages. He was able to have multiple women (or girls, some who we're only 14) also it is a fact that he married several women who were already married to living men (without there husband's even knowing). He also had relations with this 14 year old while being married to Emma years before he made polygamy a commandment from God. He tricked these women into marring him in a number of ways. He also received attention and money. He was a crook and a fraud. All this and much more is referenced in the CES letters.

@@christopherfoote4643 also there is evidence of multiple book very similar to the book of Mormon published before the book of Mormon. One even speaks of metal plates and a urim and thummim. These book are available in PDF one is the View of the Hebrews. The CES letters also do a good breakdown of the similarities between these books and the BOM.

Yeah but no

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I want whatever you're smoking. That's some far out stuff, maaaan.

I totally agree with you 33sylvia33. The Book of Mormon is true and the church is growing around the world. Thank Heaven for this wonderful book.

33sylvia33 wrote: What we do have is the book and it teaches the gospel of Jesus Christ ============================================ Something that is interesting and no many people realized how the Mormon doctrine contradict with Christianity. I'm talking the steps or the spiritual progress that the Mormon church offer to people, and there is the BIG EVIL, let me explain how I think the Mormon gospel is very much against Christianity. Mormons missionaries, find people and the most important message they need to share with new investigators is the Joseph Smith's First Vision and the Book of Mormon, IS NOT about accepting christ their main message, is the restoration of the gospel, restoration of the priesthood, they claims that only the Mormon church have the power and authority to act in the name of god. Then people accept those doctrines and of course missionaries teach people that jesus is our savior, yes, they do, then they become members of the church, they accept the First Vision, the book of Mormon and jesus as their saviors and they go to church and etc, etc, and they are happy forever, NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HERE IS THE CLEVER SCAM!!! Here come the EVIL that no many people see. If you really want to be SAVED and exalted and be in a celestial kingdom for eternity, guess what??????? you wont get there by ONLY ACCEPTING CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR, right there is the ABOMINATION, you would have to go to the temple the rest of your mortal live and practice all those Masonic rituals again and again to be ready to be exalted and become god, AND THERE IS THE BIG UGLY SCAM of the only true church, to be able to go to the temple you need to be WORTHY, and ONE OF THE MOST important requirement to be worthy, is TO PAY YOUR 10% TITHING to the church every month, and how they do this? the process is that bishops and stake presidents interview people to know if they are worthy to go to the temple, there is a list a things you need to obey to get your Mormon temple membership card, and the 10% of your monthly income is one of them, YOU SEE, jesus IS NOT the way, is THE TEMPLE, and that scripture in: Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. You see, the Mormon church claims that an angel from heaven gave Joseph Smith the location of the golden plates, from which the Book of Mormon came, and my friends, this Mormon gospel is VERY different and strange compare to any christian religion, and that scripture in Galatians 1:8 condemn the Mormon church and their CLEVER SCAM. I was a Mormon for 32 years, I don't hate Mormons or the leaders, I feel that is my duty to do what I can to share my experience and expose this scam.

That is not my experience. Everything in the temple is symbolic of and points to the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ. Listen to the prophet and apostles speak and compare . These are men of God. We do believe in grace. We believe that men will be held accountable for their actions.

I agree. We do believe in grace and that we will be held accountable. There is no Big evil or Scam at all. We love the Lord our Savior Jesus Christ. We believe he is at the helm.

Lindsey Phillips teaches the gospel of jesus???? for sure is the Mormon jesus, think for a minute, please? do you really think that the real jesus would be involve in interviewing people and giving them a membership card only after members pay that precious 10% to permit members to enter those millions of dollars building call "temples? To believe that a doctrine like that is accepted by god is such offense to any rational person, and I will never stop saying this: INDOCTRINATION CONVINCE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE SUCH A PRACTICE. Because that indoctrination, of course you will never question why ALL CHURCH LEADERS exhort people over and over, to pay that 10% tithing, AND IT GET WORSE, I heard from church leaders for 32 years that any faithful member "FIRST" would pay the 10% tithing to the church from their income, and then they should pay the mortgage, utilities, etc,etc, of course the church leaders say, "first pay the 10% to the lord", of course, the Mormon lord.

There are plenty of people doing that.

@@danvogel6802 Consider this quote: “Br. Joseph Smith jr. said that it was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon, & also said that it was not expedient for him to relate these things &c”. (General Conference Minutes, 1831). However, Smith did create an evolving allegory of how the book came about so as to satisfy curiosity and to act as a device to stimulate interest among Bible-believing Christians. Smith did this so that they might consider his interpretation of Christ’s doctrine as presented in his book.

Jon Duncan Benchmark Books in SLC. www.benchmarkbooks.com/

Smith was a real clown.

That's a great question, especially considering the words showed up in his seer stone in English. But is that your ONLY question? Of far more interest to me is why in the world would Hebrews write in Egyptian, the language of their nemesis?

bowrudder oh that's not all, "reformed egyptian" and why would a hebrew scroll written in reformed egyptian be stuffed in the chest cavity of an egyptian mummy? smith may have been a "pro" in his day but to try something like this now? he would have been shot long before he had married a 14 year old

he was hung up on ancient egypt because he had mummies in his living room and was charging people to walk in and see them then hear the story he made up about them. there are more than a few newspaper stories about his mother taking people into the parlor and showing them and calling one, pharoh and the other his queen

Which is why in his official history he tried to hide the seer stone. I plan to deal with the recent attempt by traditionalists to deny JS used a seer stone in translating. Thanks for commenting.

@@danvogel6802 Thanks for making the video.

Lol thanks for your firm testimony.

The earliest version of the revelation reads "directors" and it was prior to losing the spectacles after the loss of the 116-page manuscript. The trampling partly at least refers to the three times JS asked God t let Harris take the manuscript.

@@danvogel6802 Thanks for clarifying. If the "directors" is referring to the spectacles and not the seer stone due to the plurality of the word & how the spectacles were usually described as being two transparent stones, wouldn't that mean that Elizabeth Ann was referring to the seer stone when she described it as a "director"?

@@Sly_Spy JS only used the seer stone at the Whitmer residence since it was June 1829 and the spectacles were supposedly taken in 1828. The revelation may have been referring to both seer stones and spectacles.

@@danvogel6802 So Elizabeth Ann's testimony is useless then, since it isn't clear whether she was referring to the seer stone or spectacles?

@@Sly_Spy She was referring to the seer stone placed in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon. That's enough for me.

Never have I equated what JS did with the devil. You should look up the word occult. It's not Satanism. I think you are confused.

That would be irrelevant one could well use acts to write alma one could well have used an older book to write a newer book. It's called a remake doesnt matter. Smith was a pedophile wizard

"Alma" is a false book. No one wants to read that blasphemous abominable rubbish. BYE

cdowis what a sick troll

I pray the true God will deliver you from the deadly delusion that your feelings trump the real Scripture with its anathema against false gospels such as Mormonism and the clear, unbroken 2000 year teaching of Holy Tradition through Christ's Orthodox Church.

So did Joseph Stalin, Mao, and Ted Bundy. So what?

Harrison Salisbury You are a nutcase. The Church let the fantasy that the Book of Mormon was translated by use of the Urim & Thummin for decades without anything more than occasional offhand comments. And, if it was used at all it was only with the lost 116 pages. Eventually Joseph Smith had the fraud so entrenched that he did not need the stone to perpetrate it.

If God wants to give you a message, He'll just give you the message no need to use peep stones or any other.

Linda Poffenroth You got it. God does not need a peep stone, but Smith did because in that day and with those people the stone actually gave him some credibility. Those people actually believed in magic artifices and those that were effective in using such to deceive them. Smith was well schooled in these arts.

Harrison Salisbury No the Church has not thought that perhaps you need to go to any of the visitors centers and you can see that the church is Still trying to push the bullsh*t Story that he had the plates in front of him when on Lds org it says otherwise why because the Church wants to have plausible deniability if the church was teaching the Rock in a hat they wouldn’t have Pictures that have no rock and no hat anywhere in sight why do they do this because a rock and in a hat doesn’t look Good the LDS LEADERS have been Lying for the past 188 yrs Also they say that black skin is not a curse in the Gospel Topic Essays when in fact their Scriptures say that is exactly what it is see 2 Nephi 5 21 there are other places that make it clear black skin is a curse So the Leaders are saying what exactly that God lied Or that the Spirit lied when he testified of the books truthfullness in which case Toss your testimony or The church leaders Are Lying yet again And Joseph made it all up as he is a proven liar he lied about having multiple wives Shortly before his Death So that Shows that he had no Honor he’d lie about that he’d lie about seeing God which by the way he told no one about it for 12 years You See God and yet you tell no one RIGHT the fact is he married Other men’s wives he married 14 yr old girls which places him in the same class as warren Jeff’s their has been Zero archaeological evidence ever found in the Americas that nephites lamenites ever existed their never will be Hill comorah was where 2 million people died yet their is no evidence such a events happened their was no Horses no elephants No Steel in the Americas during the time its said to have happened The Indians are of Northeastern Asian origins not Jerusalem origins the book of Abraham was not written by Abraham’s own hand proven by every Egyptologist that’s examined the Scrolls even Mormon ones agree the Kinderhook plates were proven in 1980 to be a 19th century production not a ancient record of a descendant of Han son of pharaoh as Joseph claimed they were The facts are provable the Book of Mormon is Simply indefensible Joseph was a com man who practiced conning people with his treasure digging fraud Scheme He took that com to another level with the Book of Mormon The Book of Mormon says that polygamy.is a abomination to God yet D&C says that God approved of it yes it’s referring to the same people in both cases A God that is all knowing Wouldn’t contradict himself So what is the only Conclusion that can be deduced from this God is not its author It’s Joseph’s MYTH also Joseph said it was Nephi who appeared to him this was in PGP as well as a few other publications controlled by Joseph the church now says it was Moroni the problem is that the Lds people have been deceived they deny provable historical facts because they are told you can only trust the Church Well the Church is led by liars not men of God Hate to burst your bubble but these are the facts And no I do not hate the Mormon people they are nice people who are trying to do good They don’t realize they are following Joseph’s gospel not Jesus Gospel if you say that we worship Jesus not Joseph Go watch Jason kunzler BYU Idaho Idaho Speech and it is clear that it’s Joseph that is worshipped keep in mind this is at a church School so the speeches are approved by the brethren yet they allow this Joseph is put up Their with Jesus when in fact he was a Liar an Adulterer who broke every law of D&C 132 I woke up I wanted nothing more than to prove the Church was true it’s Cost me a lot I will Stand with the truth as Ruben clark said if we have the truth it cannot be harmed if we have not the truth It ought to be harmed Well I know they have not the truth So if the truth harms the Church So be it Also their was no Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1833 Look it up !!! Yet another lie in the Gospel Topic Essays

Are you claiming those the stated that words appeared on the stone saw it themselves?

Kent Purdy Obvious that he did not see the translation process == how could he if JS's face covered the brim of the hat? It was speculation, not based on eyewitness.

cdowis And all the witnesses make the same observation.

Kent Purdy Please give us a link to the source that all the witnesses saw the words appearing on the seer stone. Even the most rabid antiMormons do not make that claim, but let's see what you got.

cdowis David Witmer - witness Marktin Harris - witness Joseph Knight, Sr - close friend of JS told him No other eye witness contradicted this added level of detail. Your question illustrates that you are completely unaware of how JS scried for treasure. It was a visual experience. "Translating" was a type of scrying. And no, I'm not going to look up all those sources. Do it yourself.

The rock in the hat.

It’s certainly true that anybody who can believe the Bible’s reliable history and the word of a god could easily believe in the Book of Mormon, too. As much as anything, that may just suggest that _Homo sapiens sapiens_ is a badly misnamed species, as we can also believe the Qur’an and _Dianetics,_ and believe David Koresh and Warren Jeffs. Etc, etc, etc. Even when there’s excellent reason to just against and *not* believe any of them.

@@Shelama Won't disagree with that statement. It certainly makes no sense to suggest any of the world's religions, are based on science or empirical evidence.

My question is do you believe in the doctrine and covenants and pearl of great price which contradicts the Book of Mormon in so many points of doctrine?

@@s.a3099 I'm a Latter-Day Saint, so Yes I do believe in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. And I don't agree that there are contradictions between them and the Book of Mormon. I'm quite sure, you can find some though.

@@jamesbaldwin7676 yes there are blatant contradictions. So many lol storage.cloversites.com/makinglifecountministriesinc/documents/The%20Book%20of%20Mormon%20contradicts%20the%20Doctrine%20and%20Covenants.pdf