No animal treats their own as cruelly as humans. Many are cruel but they don’t understand what they do is cruel. Humans are the only ones who treat other humans terribly while perfectly understanding why such actions are cruel.
@MyShiroyuki there's a case to be made with chimps who actively murder apes, dolphins who hunt whale babies just to eat their tongues and a few others but I still think humans are capable of even greater cruelty towards their own. only we would come up with White Room Solitary Confinement. literal Deprivation of Colors and Sounds.
Man. I sometimes forget how much of a monster Kratos used to be. I can't even think of one character anywhere in fiction that had such a drastic change and even regreted their past actions or reflected on them this much.
The change is anything but drastic, I’ve heard people say about 800-1000 years had passed between gow 3 and gow 4. If that is a stretch, then at least 2 or 3 centuries.
@@basimali619 "Drastic" doesn't automatically mean "rapid." Kratos is a vastly different man here than who he was during the Greek GOW series. How long it took to get him here is beside the point.
This DLC is such an amazing way of self reflecting on stories made over a decade back. The way storytelling is perceived has changed so much in the past decade and Santa Monica did a brilliant job making everything from the old GoW games seem meaningful
It not just hit Kratos, but us the old GoW fans as well. I remember i laugh at that part, and the part when we let him fall to Hades, and the part where we killed him again in GoW 2 We're truly monsters huh?
what's even worse is that i remember you meet him again in hell and he managed to catch a cliff instead of falling into the fires of hell and yet again meeting Kratos, was then thrown into the depths of hell despite gaining the chance to escape
How Is He a Running Gag?! Kratos feeling regret over killing the Boat Captain makes his scenes feel like it’s less of a gag, and more of an important tragedy.
If there's ever a sequel to Ragnarok, I would hope Kratos encounters the Boat Captain again. Boat Captain would be like, "Oh sh*t! Not you again!" and purposely jump off a cliff to his death to avoid Kratos. Mimir: Is that the Boat Captain? You weren't going to do anything, brother! Kratos: I was just merely going to say hi. Mimir: And that you did.
Uhhh so.. what of all the people he (by he I mean we) casually slaughtered so we could obtain more red orbs? Does Kratos feel the same way about them as he does for this boat captain?
Well he technically got something in return for those deaths while the boat captain was just murder for no other reason rather than to kill. It wasnt revenge, defense, or anything that would benefit Kratos at all.
Mimir: If you saw this boat Captain again in the after life would you save him this time Kratos: Well about that Mimir: Wait, don’t tell me you did meet him in the afterlife and killed him again. Kratos: Twice Actually Mimir: What the fuck brother
That captain's death has always stayed in my mind as the most petty, pointlessly cruel thing Kratos ever did. It's healthy for Kratos to see it that way now, too.
@@shiroamakusa8075 I agree that it served a practical purpose, but only if we're limiting ourselves to video game logic... There were plenty of items that Kratos could have tossed in there to jam up the mechanism. Even if the enemies gigantic hammers do disappear because they were summoned by magic, you could throw enough pots in there to jam it up just by the sheer volume of ceramic dust that got slipped into the rails or whatever. Not to mention candle holders, the chains that the girl was wearing, a brick from the wall, anything but a squishy mortal woman.
This is a good scene, the fact that, even though Valhalla shows the complexity of Kratos's past and the fact that many of his atrocities were caused by either the gods' manipulations or collateral in the pursuit of his revenge, memories of the boat captain, and Poseidon's lover, are a reminder that Kratos was no better than his enemies and was just as callous. They did nothing to him, they were not warriors. They were average people stuck in a terrifying world with monsters and deities that could kill them in a flash, and Kratos couldn't be bothered to show even an inch of mercy for them, and for what?
@@zylin2139 wait he talks about poseidoms lover in god of war 3? arent we talkin about the lady kratos used as a support weight for a wheel that killed her in 3
I love how the whole theme of this DLC wasn't forgiving Kratos for his actions or excusing them, simply explaining them and showing himself and us that things are never cut and dry. It's about Kratos accepting who he was, both the good and the bad, and allowing himself to move on.
They really needed to bring up Posiden's abused Princess being impaled to be used a door stop and then subsequently crushed in GOW3 then. That was probably the most fucked up murder of an innocent done in the old GOW game. Like it was just so unecessary. Both the act itself and how the scenario was presented also in the game too. It was definitely one of those edgy for the sake of being edgy things than actually adding anything of substance.
One thing i love about Kratos is how he tells his stories exactly as they happened. No, omission of details, or anything to try and justify/ lessen the blow of his misdeeds.
@@LinkinMark1994 Okay I had always wondered about that actually. One scene we were shown the people were all killed and then the next he has the two women on his bed. I always thought it was maybe survivors he found, but knowing they were women on his own boat makes a lot more sense.
@@alphaomega6540not to mention the entirety of God of war 2018 blue balling us. Never once does calliope, kratos' dead daughter WHO HE KILLED' ever get mentioned in this story about a father and his child...
Yeah that was truly an asshole move by Kratos. He could have EASILY lifted the man up and saved him. I think that was just the writer's way of letting us know right off the bat that Kratos is no hero. But he's come a long way since those greek days
Well if he had lifted him up, the captian would have to be escorted out of the hydra's mouth after which he would again be in danger of dying. Kratos just ended his misery.
@@pranayravi9449 but then again, Kratos has already lifted him up from the ledge. It would cost him nothing to just leave him there, instead he threw the man down to his death.
the confusing thing about the captain is that the game lowkey let on that he trapped those women in that room, given how they screamed for Kratos to find the key to the room.
I actually find this dialogue interesting in Valhalla. That on Kratos’ journey through Vengeance, the Boat Captain left the biggest impact. A needless and pointless death that could’ve been avoided. This also goes for the needless /pointless deaths at Kratos’ hands in God of War 3 like the lady stuck in the door contraption or when Kratos was scaling the side of a building and through that civilian off out of his way. The Captain marked the true start of the cost of vengeance for nothing
It wasnt. Saving that captain would put unnecessary things on his plate never mind protecting the captain why stop at just him? There's also multiple sailors there that needed Help and Kratos isn’t a modern super hero he lives in a dog eat dog world. The lady also was a needed sacrifice to open the door otherwise he wouldn't have been able to progress. Now I'm not saying Kratos is the pope or anything but let's stop pretending Kratos went out of his way to be specifically be a D. He sacrificed everything that could potentially help him in his way in pursuit of vengeance.
@@NinjapowerMS he didn't have to protect the captain though he could have helped him up and gone on his way. He intentionally threw the bit a captain down simply just because he could and Posideons Princess coukdmhave been avoided he could have grabbed one of the thousands of mooksor dogs and used them in the same way but he instead used an innocent woman who was just as much a victim of the Gods a he was. Kratos was a nuanced character to a point but you acting like he wasn't a selfish piece of ship who is on the record as having murdered just as many who were not deserving of his blade is a bit concerning
@@NinjapowerMS bruh he 100% went out of his way to be a dick. There where so many instances where he said fuck it and just killed random ass people. Young Kratos only cared about himself and his revenge, and being in his general vicinity probably meant you where going to get killed for literally no reason. Whenever there were civilians running around, you could kill them for xp and healing. Which the vast majority of players did. Young Kratos was a complete asshole, and while the gods deserved the shit kicking he gave them, everyone else didn't. Especially Posideon's princess, who just existed. But she said something mean to him, so I guess she deserves to die.
@@vaerrik1082 He doesn't kill to be a D though. He kills them because it grants him health or currency which in turns gives him more vengeance power. It's like an animal attacking humans it's not being a D it's just doing it to survive. As for the poseidon princess there's literally no way to progress. She was a necessary sacrifice and doesn't help that enemies there despawn when they get beaten. Saying he's a D implies he's going out of his way to mess with people for his own amusement which he doesn't it's usually because it helps him in overcome that situation.
The thing is, the captain had nothing to do with his path for vengeance at all. Kratos was doing a quest for the Olympian Gods. And the quest was to kill a sea monster, not Ares.
I wish they told the whole story: it’s not that Kratos killed him, it’s that he killed him _several_ times. Kratos: “That is not the end of his story. A few days later, I encountered him again in Hades. I kicked him into the river Styx. Even in death, I refused a second chance to help him. Years later, I encountered a resurrected Alruik (the barbarian king) who could summon dead souls to aid him in battle. One of those souls was the boat captain. He did not try to fight me, yet I slew him once again. I have caused so much suffering to this one man that he did not deserve.” Edit: No, I didn’t make that last part up. The boat captain really does appear in GoW II as an enemy. There’s even a short cutscene for it. And like I said, he doesn’t try to fight you, but he dies (again) if you either kill him for health or when you kill Alruik.
Honestly, I understand how tragic and sad the Boat Captain went through, I also can't help but laugh at how many times he was killed in the original series
Dont forget how in God of War 3, in the underworld of hades, there are notes from a torutured soul, that being the same boat captain who writes about how kratos held his life in his hands and left him to die, funny how all 3 games reflect this boat captain, seems it really does understand how evil Kratos was to him.
I mean, wasn't the captain some corrupt fiend anyway? Didn't he hold those women captive on his boat? If he was a corrupt scumbag then maybe Kratos' actions weren't so bad
This is basically a slap in the wrist by the writers for people who are adamant in the idea that "Young Kratos is not to be blamed for the person he is, the gods were cruel on him".
@@fortunefiderikumo I mean Yeah but why he's so horrible in the First place is bc of the Gods. If at that point he wasn't in service to the Gods for a whole decade, being lied to each time he would do something for them, he would more likely have saved Him.
@@astralchaos3441 Nah, see the segments talking about Lysandra, Kratos himself acknowledged that he had been a sh*t person even before his desperate servitude to Ares and facing all that ugly stuff, and no, Deimos being taken from such a young age from him has nothing to do with it. Gotta stop excusing the man when he himself had so explicitly said that "he cannot hide behind his vengeance"...
@@hansalanson3497 I'm not excusing Kratos, obviously he wasn't a good person but a huge reason for why that was in the First Place was bc of the Gods. And why would the loss of Deimos have nothing do with it? GoW Ghost of Sparta tells us that it affected him a lot. Not really saying that it was the main reason but why would it not have anything to with it?
1:54 and that's why this act is so important this was the first act we saw Kratos do that showed just how much of a awful person he was back then when we first met him. It shows how far he has come and regrets a good many of his actions
Man, to hear Kratos so remorseful for something like this is beautiful, if not depressing. When he can’t even give a good answer as to why he did it at 2:00 is heartbreaking. You can hear his guilt and remorse. It makes you think, about how many of those memories he holds. How many people stick with him like that? It’s terrifying when you think about it.
When I was a kid, I remember how badass Kratos was, but then there were moments I had to question why would Kratos be so cruel. The ship captain would always be in my mind, especially when I imagined Kratos to be an avenging hero, only for part of that idea to slip away when he let that ship captain die. My mind was like "Why Kratos? He was innocent and you killed him for no reason!" Again and again he treated the ship captain like an object that's in his way rather than a human being. Hell I even tried to avoid attacking him when fighting the barbarian king in GOW2. In the past, I've complained about Kratos being a pacifist loser in God of War PS4, but this moment in the DLC and Ragnarok made me accept Kratos on what he's trying to become.
It's strange to me how many fans - men, particularly - criticise the new Kratos for being much more reflective and thoughtful about his actions. I have to wonder if it's an insecurity thing or a maturity thing, because Kratos' development is something that resonates with me and I'm only in my 20s let alone 40 or 50.
@@RileyWritey I guess it has to do with Kratos at the time being mostly seen as this cool badass angry god killer. Seeing Kratos be remorseful and regretful of the things he's done was a massive new take on his character, one that was a very good choice.
I always thought that was one of the most fucked up things Kratos ever did; up there with using that slave girl to hold a wheel and killing his family. I’m happy they referenced it at great length and that Kratos shows unfathomable remorse
Poseidon’s princess was the closest thing on hand, and he didn’t care about her life. He killed his family because he didn’t know they were his family. but with the captain, there was no reason or excuse he simply did it, because he had the opportunity.
@@captainrev4959Poseidon's princess was still an unnecessary death. He could've just used the corpse of one of the monsters as support of the handle and it would've worked better.
Hmm he says: "Oh! It’s you…uh hi been a while I guess, what do I say?…hmm did u kill some poor soul on a whim again? Hmm (looks at Mimir)…what did you do? Stay back…. Kratos: No! I won’t hurt you or kill you again… Boat Captain: GO AWAY (screaming)
So, we aren't going to talk about when kratos died the first time that he did it yet again to the same guy by casually stabbing him in the back as he was holding on for dear life and kicked him to the River of Styx?
The problem is when drastic shifts in character happen off screen and thereby feel unearned. Stuff like what the Star Wars sequels did to Luke; changes in a character are fine as long as we can follow them through that change. Dad Of Boy did a drastic shift of character without earning it on-screen, and what's more just kept that changed character stagnant in the new form they invented.
Kratos met ship captain 3 times - 1. God of war 1 - Hydra Fight 2. God of war 1 - When kratos falling in styx river, he catches the same captain. 3. God of war 2 - When Fighting the Barbarian King , he summoned the soul of same captain.
The thing is, Kratos not only killed the captain, when in the first game he climbs out of hades, he meets the captain who was doing the same and kratos only didnt fall further into hades, because he caught on to the man. He stabbed him with the blades of chaos, climbed on him and pushed him dow into the abyss. GoW 2: When you fight the barbarian king boss, after the 2nd phase the barbarian boss summons the souls of the dead, one of them is the boat captain. To no one surprise, you kill him AGAIN. GoW 3: When you are trying to get out of hades AGAIN, you encounter the boatmans soul the last time when hades finally absorbs him for good. At least u didnt erase his existence there.
I'm glad they brought this up again as Kratos wrote about this in the base game, too. It was just one of those things that was put there to be 'badass' and show that he was a cool anti-hero at the time, but it was one of Kratos' lowest moments. Such casual cruelty for no purpose at all. It should bother him.
I love that they acknowledged that, even though Kratos's revenge on the gods was justified, his brazen and casual slaughter of innocents along the way *was not* The boat captain is just one of many who's lives Kratos ended for no reason.
It’s honestly crazy that David Jaffe hates this take on Kratos, and would genuinely prefer if he just kept on being that same angry killer who wouldn’t think twice about throwing someone to their death
David Jaffe can't even get through the first hour of a Metroid game... how did anyone take him seriously to begin with? I mean, have you even SEEN God of war 2?! What a joke.
Does he talk about the second time he saw the boat captain in the underworld You know when he hung off his feet the stabbed him to climb over him and then kicked him off anyway
Ares to kratos: you have no ideas what a true monster is kratos Kratos to hydra: you have no idea what a true monster is hydra (Just a god of war thing)
Ain't it sad that there are so many comments here that try to excuse Kratos for murdering the boat captain? "Oh, he was a rapist who had all these women locked up", "Oh, he was a coward who abandoned his men". One, even if any of that was true, Kratos does explicitely not kill him for it, but just because he can. Two, the games themselves, even the older ones, never treat it as anything but Kratos being a heartless bastard and three, Kratos himself calls it pointless cruelty.
A wise person once said: *"True strength and wisdom comes from facing your mistakes, shortcomings and past sins, learning from them. No one is perfect and thats a good thing as seeing a person refine and improve themselves day by day is one of the most beautiful things to see."* Something Modern Disney and social media fails to see.
Fun fact, there's a side quest in God of War (2018) that involves a dude escaping after the boat captain dies in the Hydra, and he sails to the norse world and gets shipwrecked on the Lake of the Nine
I don't get it. why would he feel regret about that knowing that the captain abandoned his ship, his crew and the women and children because I certainly didn't if fact I want to kill him myself when I first played it, so why now was it because for the plot..? I mean they could have use so many regrettable moments like when Kratos forced those three old men to red the book in sisters of fate's temple and smashed their faces in the tablet, he didn't regret those..?
Given the situation, its hard to fault someone for cowardice. Kratos points this out right here "he was just a man afraid for his life." I mean, what was the captain to do? The ship is lost, he can't do anything against the hydra. Sure the noble thing would be to try and get your crew out, get the women off of the ship, etc. (But it likely would all be in vain anyway, if the Hydra didn't kill them, the ocean would) But not everyone has it in them to be a hero, the fortitude to not just panic when they see a building sized monster eating their ship.
@@LordZaayl A captain is meant to go down with the ship. Its part of the code of honor that comes with being a sea captain, to show you will put the survival of every traveller who entrust their life to you ahead of your own.
Its seems that kratos taught the boat captain the lesson that is evil is terrifying becuase its dosnt look like a hydra, evil is terrifying becuase it looks exactly how your fellow man looks.
the fact he didnt mention that he "killed" the captain not once, not twice... BUT THREE TIMES as well. the initial Hydra fiasco, falling to Hades in the same game and then the captain was summoned by the zombied barbarian king in GoW2. then there are the references to him in 3, 2018, and now here. the captain is almost like a literal ghost to Kratos at this point that will never stop haunting him.
Disappointed that they cut out when Kratos died and fell to Hades he manged to grab on to the very same boat captain who had grabbed onto a ledge. And again Kratos showed no mercy to to man who did nothing wrong and again threw him to his terrible fate.
oof. If he felt this bad about the boat captain. Im surprised they didnt have a bit about the girl in Poseidons temple. yikes that was way more brutal than the boat captain.
Boat Captain in heaven: *chillin* Kratos appears Boat Captain: “damn it you better not be here to kill another god or torment me more!” Kratos: “actually I’m dead… again…. Again…..again…. Finally….. I hope…” Boat Captain: “how the hell are you even in heaven?!”
I’ll never forget that scene. I had actually hoped that Kratos would save him… when he didn’t, I was disappointed in him. Then it happened again… twice. And I take some hope in knowing that the souls of the Underworld were freed after Kratos killed Hades.
They weren't "freed" the Greek underworld is not hell, it's a resting place (a gloomy resting place, but still a resting place). By killing Hades he denied them peace and doomed them all to become those wraiths he fought throughout the original games.
Home dude still woulda died when Kratos flooded the world, blotted out the sun, and released plague and disease and pestilence onto the lands. Really what he did was a mercy.
I feel like Kratos should feel equal shame for another past action. One of Poseidon's concubines, IE sex slave, whom Kratos used to keep a gate opened, which ultimately crushed her into a gory mess! That poor woman was a slave for a vicious god's sick pleasures and Kratos brutally murdered her just so he could advance further into Poseidon's palace. I'm surprised this was never brought up among the many horrific acts Kratos did.
To say nothing of what happened when Kratos met the man again in Hades, or when he was temporarily revived in GoW2 during a boss fight. The dude genuinely couldn't catch a break, even in death.
I'm still laughing in the context of the earlier games. It was intended as a joke then, that was a different time and Kratos was a different man. It is quite brilliant how they're tying all this together narratively though.