LET'S ARGUE: Art Is Useless 

Nah, happiness can be obtained in many ways. Art is generally important, because it can communicate ideas that would otherwise be hard to communicate, but I think it definitely is overrated and overvalued. At least a certain kind of art. The popstars, the ridiculously simple paintings that are sold for ungodly amounts of money - stuff like that.

@@somedudeok1451 I mean some happiness could be considered fake or cheap too. Everything is relative maaan.

Happiness is overrated. Without misery, art would always be too cheery and would lack any dramatic conflict. We need to increase misery to make art better.

“But will it make money though…?”

Who needs happiness when you have Bosnians?

Pretty sure his first album was in 1984 and I think it was called Purple Rain or something.

@@travisscottburber5719 his longetivity is unmatched

Excuse me but NAV's first record is obviously 1967's Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

@@spoonmeanie5644 Nonsense. It was obviously 1959's Kind Of Blue.

Love this thread lol

Art is human expression. Do you think people are robots? Music, movies, etc. brings light to so many peoples lives. Calling it useless is so shortsighted

humanity and life is useless

Who cares tho

You said "human behaviour" now I have to listen to Björk's entire discography in order.

@AntiMissileMissile basically

Same

Yeah, imagine just eating, drinking, and having sex for your whole life, it would get boring super quick.

Edgy "I am 14 and this is deep"-quotes on tumblr arent art my friend (jk)

@@bas_ee nah they speaking truth. I know where I’d be.

@@bbailey3055 Agree. Art is what u make it. Posting, gaming, cycling, roofing, who cares. We can all do it and all have to start somewhere. No one is great right out the gate. And f the gates. Those posters need to go rt on posting bc they love it

flashbacks to the office 😭

Bro. No it can't if you don't know how to properly apply chest compressions and when. Don't take your medical advice from The Office.

@@Royed bro yes it can, the "stayin alive" is just to make sure you're doing enough compressions per minute. It's a pretty regular example in cpr training

well also there’s no point in life if we aren’t making and/or consuming art

@@emnersonn exactly

Excellent point.

Agree. Art = Life, good bad or otherwise. Work = Death, good bad or otherwise. No one gives a shit about their soulless job. We all live to create and experience art and culture; everybody’s workin for the weekend

Depends how wide your definition of art is. There's still dinosaur evidence without them making any art.

How much we talkin

@@getreal2592 50 bones take it or leave it

@@getreal2592 about three fiddy

@@omarpadilla8033 yen

@@omarpadilla8033 goddamn Loch Ness monster

I'd argue Art isn't just integrated into culture / our culture, but it's intrinsically human. And about farmers / home cleaners / etc. who should be making millions, it's an obvious lack of understanding of economics fundamentals and not understanding what value is

yeah,we doing art is older than we doing agriculture and writting

Art = Human expression and the embodiment of an idea manifested. Without art, the world would be a pretty sterile place.

but i think it can be argued that the intrinsic human need to make art and the modern day conception of an artist are two very different things. the fact that some art is way more valuable based on the class of people that consumes it is at least worthy of a conversation, no?

@@fisticuffs12 Well, yes. Corruption and greed is also something humanity has experienced our entire time on this Earth. From hoarding art, to literally paying a musician to stay I'm their castle/fortress, elite powers have been keeping art all to themselves. Now, a banana nailed to a wall being sold for millions? That's not art, that's money laundering.

Some people might dislike them because they’re mainstream (the same people who vehemently hated Bieber and One Direction, and probably Kpop now). I think, though, a lot of people dislike them because they associate them with poverty. Country is associated with hillbillies, and Rap is associated with poor neighbourhoods in cities.

The thing about Country is that it prefers to be niche in its themes and sound. Yeah, some other artists branch out into country pop like T. Swift but a lot of Country is stuck in its ways. Rap has subgenres that merge into like a million other genres and is way more versatile than people give it credit for. Country doesn't really care if people can relate to it.

@@caleb98963 I just didn’t like Justin Bieber because of the old clips of him

@Chloe Snowe It's probably an overexposure issue, NGL. People only hear like possibly the dryest and most boring EDM. Hell, there are probably tons of genres of EDM that people listen to without even knowing it. Like imagine me back in 2014 trying to get people hip to kawaii future bass and people are like "the fuck is that" and now it's every RU-vidr's outro music.

one is predominantly white, the other black, if someone says every genre but rap 🚩

I know a person who logged off for a year to never do anything other than their job and recorded contentedness. I wonder if they would do this voluntarily

Art pervades so much aspects of society like even fancy rails could be considered art, ever notice a building's architecture, art is everywhere if u actually think about it, even places you wouldn't think to look like the damn highway bridge theirs art. art is like a fundamental human thing that goes deep as it literally being a evolutionary trait to seek out more symmetrical features, "beauty" as we know it is actually a pretty profound thing Kurzgesaget in a nutshell has a good video on it, also look up stoned ape theory

I would probably be depressed all that year cause my entire personality ig is based of these sorta things

Graffiti is illegal, ain't stopping anyone lol.

I couldn't do it, art is everything to me.

algorithms on streaming services are pretty good for me. occasionally checking what is popular that month or whenever is a way to see what is getting attention, too.

Reading stuff like this makes me so scared of (eventually) being an adult

@@jackmyers7141 You'll just take care of yourself, that's what an adult is. Kids can do it too if it's a must, they r just not that equipped. What I can tell u is that you won't start pathetically listening to radio like a dirty plebanian just because u turned 18/21. There is no single transformation bringing you from teenager to adult, it's just an idea. Take care of yourself and have fun, it's nice to hold more power

@@jackmyers7141 Being a teen sucked. I'm having much more fun as an adult. And I've never stopped listening to new music.

That's why i jam the shit out of my speaker as soon as my 8 hours is up, but than again im younger so i might not be in the mood when i get older, i hope not

Exactly!!!!

I didn’t finish reading but yea nah I gotchyu. It might be a little pretentious to defend arts importance but it’s even sillier to say that is entirely useless. Art is so so important. It’s just on a different level of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs than like food or whatever

you're probably just a kid, because if you ever had an emergency where you need a plumber, mechanic, electrician, carpenter, etc you sure as hell wouldn't be calling them shallow. I would love to see you call a plumber shallow and that the work they do will never leave Mark before you have them fix your leak. Or shout to your local post man that no matter how efficient they are at their job they will never leave a mark. Or go over to your McDonald's cashier and tell them they are shallow before making your order. You'll quickly see you aren't being pretentious. You're just being naive. Art has it's merits but language is still the best form of communication. Because you sure as hell didn't draw your RU-vid comment. Nor do i think Martin Luther King had drawings from jail. They were letters. I don't think mlk interpretive danced i had a dream. He spoke it. No one should aspire to be an artist either if everyone did we wouldn't have anything other than cave paintings. It's work that brought humanity to the stage where we can even have the time and space to be introspective of the human condition. Art is the product of leisure, and leidure is the product of work already done. You literally would not have art without your so called "shallow" labor.

Apples and oranges to even compare the two.. Work and art are both equally valid and equally necessary.

i think this is exactly why this opinion exist. some people make art for a living and have their voice heard, while others do the basic tasks that everyone needs for society to function and they have no voice? i get why one might become a bit bitter.

excuse me it's called Ram Ranch put some respect on its name

Grant Macdonald, the creator of Ram Ranch, has sex with his nephew

@@CypressDahlia actually op was referencing the artist, formerly and also currently known as Grant Macdonald

Wesley Willis and A lot of Daniel Johnston are unironically good music

Wait, Viper sampled a fucking TWRP song?

I don't listen to country because it doesn't try to evolve as a genre. It has no obligation to. It has its niche. But if it's niche, then it's niche. Nobody's fault, really.

While that is completely true, as a person from California my view on people is more fueled by what I see in my daily life, maybe I could have worded my answer better but I feel as though most people only bring up country in the context of it being the only thing they don’t like. I bet the same people aren’t listening to metal all the time, or listening to ambient music. But you never hear someone say “I listen to anything but ambient music”. I’m OP by the way

@@noahbullock6696 Ironically I think country is very popular outside of the US, last time I checked. Maybe because it has a "worldly" appeal as being a deep rooted part of American culture. There is a strong cultural fascination from foreigners.

The amount of times I’ve had to hear country fans say “Rap more like crap” is so overwhelming that no part of me is worried about country music being looked down on. I like my fair share of the stuff but some of it is buttcheeks.

My two favorite albums are TPAB and Purgatory by Tyler Childers ama

It's messed up that many feel guilty about doing things just for the sake of enjoying it or having a new experience and nothing else, I love the term corporate kool-aid I'm gonna remember that

Exactly, we are brainwashed into thinking we have to work at a 9-5. And when we work it, companies try to guilt you into not being someone who calls out, gets sick, take a vacation, or spend time with family. Don't get me wrong, work that 9-5 as needed, but it's not to be the end all be all for us

@@fisticuffs12 if that person for whom art is useless could create something that would generate those millions, they'd not say that. and I think that op thinks that creating art and making it into a career ain't difficult, which is also untrue. maybe not as physically demanding as a janitor, but again, tour as a guitarist/vocalist for a thrash metal band for 250 days a year, see if that's easy for your body. so there's a lot of layers to this, such a blank statement that "x is useless" is the most useless thing here.

@@JahlisMan even if every person on earth was exceptionally artistic we'd still need essential workers. i think looking down on any of the people that make society function is not a smart approach to take. being a musician might be hard but i think we can ultimately see how most culture spending is a luxury, in hard times we can survive without it

@@fisticuffs12 but most artists struggle financially ? and your choice of job btw. if you're jealous, become an artist and hit your millions? right ?

I thought you were going to say Garfield (from Garfield)

100 percent true, thank you king

Don't forget the Elon Musk-worshipping mindset as well

I'm happy that they're recognizing there are problems with society at all. Everyone has those edgy phases. We should nurture their recognition of seeing things that they think are wrong into a force for good.

Their heart is in the right place, but their logic isn't sound. Blue/gray collar people do deserve more money. But it also seems they have a fundamental misunderstanding about art.

Athiests in General are cringe. “Ha ha look at me! I hate religion! I’m such a good person! Science is better than anything even though it’s philosophies are fundamentally flawed!” - 🤓

What is with this alt-right hate boner for nihilism and atheism? We get it... you're a white religious fundamentalist who doesn't comprehend philosophy

Exactly

Please, indulgue us and yourself and elaborate.

Please, indulgue us and yourself and elaborate.

Why would anyone live in a world without music

@@r4slen Because there are other things in life other than music. Life would be less enjoyable without music but I could still fall back on tv shows, movies and sports.

yeah if you love earth so I like eARTh from my art teacher

Without art we would be eating our own feces and running off cliffs for fun

Exactly. As long as humanity exists art will be there.

based

All that does is inflate the economy, that is all that minimum wage does. Think about it, companies aren't going to sell products for cheap if everyone gets paid at least $15 an hour, that wouldn't make any finacial sense they will adjust their prices to reflect that. It's a sad reality with life, there are people that want to make more money than others and those positions that have hefty paychecks aren't as plentiful. It also rewards the sloth of workers at the expense of diligent workers. Look we all need to make money, but we need to be serious and intricate about the economy.

@@tylere.8436 "All that does is inflate the economy."Just in case you're being serious, this isn't true. Prices will rise less than the minimum wage does. So things would be relatively cheaper for the poor and more expensive for the rich, with stability occurring around the median wage. There are definitely more effective ways to bring about this type of change though, such as taxation. But minimum wage should at the very least rise with inflation and compensate for missed raises in the past.

@@tylere.8436 why do you talk about things you don't understand

@@simcard96 Just because you say what I said isn't true, doesn't count as proof or a proper rebuttal. I provided logical reasoning what would happen if minimum of $15 happens across the board, what companies would automatically do. Unless you can actually rebuke my point, you provided nothing but simple negation. Want me to provide more stats and logic? Take the state minimum wages of states for example - California is $15 an hour, in my state of PA, it's the same as federal, $7.25. Look at gas prices now. in these states: California has an average of $5.27; PA has $4.00. Want acres of land: California has an average cost of $39k per acre; PA has $32k. Sales tax is higher in CA compared to PA, car insurance is higher in CA than in PA. A lot of this phenomena, including the minimum wage, are symptoms of a much deeper cause: regulations and taxes. I never said minimum wage was the only way to inflate after all, that is more of a symptom of a larger and complex problem, the symptom in itself further inflates the economy of e.g. California. California is just a perfect encapsulation why minimum wage isn't the answer for inflation and helping low-income workers. If anything, raising the minimum wage would encourage businesses to lay off workers and invest in AI and robots or resort to offshoring to cheaper labor. Businesses simply aren't to give their workers more money if they are struggling to keep up with regulations and higher taxes and higher property taxes. Long Beach in particular lost many grocery chains due to the city voting to increase pay for workers in 2021. The best possible solutions that actually address the roots of the problem are deregulations and less taxes. You do that, then land and rent wouldn't be so high, therefore stores wouldn't need to charge more for their goods and could actually put that money into their workers or improve the working conditions. We haven't even addressed gentrification and supply-demand, point being minimum wage doesn't address inflation, let alone solves it.

Yeah, i know, my point was that i don't believe that any artist deserve to be a millionaire, i never actually said that artist are the richest people in society

right, the problem is with capitalism not art. I bet if art and capitalism weren't so entwined with each-other we'd get way better music.

@@wastedpotency absolutley, because money ruins art. I love when people are soooo devastated when movie franchises or video game series are driven into the ground with terrible sequels and such. Those companies don't care about necessarily making the greatest sequel or whatever. They don't care about the art. They don't care about the integrity of the series. They just know that the name and brand will continue to make them oodles of money and then fans lose respect for the series. I personally don't care enough about any franchise, and i'm sure most of the films are actually pretty fine in some cases, but a lot of people end up getting really mad at the companies behind them and feeling as though they did not do justice to the series when all they did was just pump out more films or games to make crazy amounts of money.

@@yimnerr In addition: Copyright protection is ironically anti-art. Artist used to borrow heavily from another, it wasn't even considered stealing because it was understood that artists produce for others to work on the foundation that you build off of the foundation a previous generation had build. Music especially has suffered from this.

That only applies to a miniscule portion of artists though. Bankers almost all earn way too much, why don't they get the criticism?

Yes, exactly what i was trying to say, thank you, you are a lot smarter than me

💯

Well said

and a bazu to you sir

That makes it useful tho, it has a use, to stimulating our minds so that we don't live boring uninteresting lives. You can word salad it as much as you want, but at the end of the day, yes art does absolutely have a use.

If art just suddenly ceases to exist, I might actually kill myself

true

Somebody with art drew the concept for the car they are probably driving, or the bike they ride. The packaging. This person's take logically makes no sense, from a human perspective.

Seriously. As an artist planning to go into video game design, so many people have responded to that by saying things like "There's a job for that?" or "How would you get work?" As if things like textures, 3D models, character designs, environments, sountracks... just come out the ether. Like yes, believe it or not, there is a person who painted the grass texture in that video game you're playing and they did that in exchange for (probably too little) money.

That wasn't the art i was talking about

@@Wabuu-zoo if there is a kind of art that doesn't apply to your statement, then the statement "art is useless" is patently false

Ok, man, jesus

Bitch, where

It's not just based on replaceability. Matter of fact, most important thing is on the name itself, capitalization. Sure, sanitation services are important, but try creating an entire entertaining and exciting sport around it. Don't get me wrong, it sucks that the janitor gets paid jack shit while lebron just cuz he won the genetic lottery gets paid massive dollars, but one is not at odds with the other. You can have every person get paid their true labor whole also appreciatating the athleticism and mental hardship that goes into ballin like the best to ever do it.

@@33up24 i think part of “replaceability” is in the personality yea I don’t think those are mutually exclusive

It really was solid

Oh yeah and I can't do art for a living even though it's my dream

So true, the rich should eat the poor instead

@@randomusername1735 we too spicy for their bitch guts

@@randomusername1735 Now, wait a second... I'm poor, so no.

very true. Sounds less like they’ve given up music than just plain given up. Idk, I’m sure they do art in their way though, it prob just looks different to us lol God bless ‘em

woah so cool you've listened to twenty seconds of a Jason Aldean song, tell me more about how an entire genre is bad

60s country music is pretty cool. Haven’t heard a good modern country song

I’m not a fan of a lot of mainstream contemporary country, but I think there are definitely good modern country songs. I’m not sure about your personal tastes, but have you ever heard Nick Shoulders or Buck Meek? I’ve found a lot of people who don’t dig modern country have enjoyed those guys. There’s always good music out there, sometimes you just have to dig

@@MelMelodyWerner Well, just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s bad. Isn’t music mostly subjective?

@@samuelshaw7730 listened to the two artists you recommended (just chose a song at random from each) and I still don’t think the genre is for me. I don’t think the genre is bad or invalid, just not my thing.

they said in the same tweet "i still love art" lol so they can def appreciate it in spite of that

classic Gex