Agree, but personally the conversation about it you got with the punching reporter in ME2 is one of my favorite paragon moments (Shepard recite from memory the name of each fallen ship) so it normally takes the edge for me
It´s not that hard actually. Would you rather let 3 politicians on a ship which is evacuating 10.000 civilians die or let a fleet of military trained military go to waste? Both has their pros and cons, but sacrificing 10.000 civilians vs. 3000 Military personal? Yeah, that is not a hard choice based on the numbers, and I say that as someone who lets civilians die to stop a Batarian terrorist from escaping to same countless more.
She's the ONLY ONE with ANY sense. Even when the other 2 were quick to dismiss your claims about the reapers, she'd at least give you the benefit of the doubt, however reluctantly. As with the other 2, i have no liking for the dalatrass, & i sure as hell wished i can shoot that asshole of a turian in the face.
Says the Councilor who refused to join the other races until Thessia was under threat. Say what you want, but Ashley Williams was 100% right about the Asari. The moment someone else needs their help, their whole talk about "cooperation and coexistence" goes out the window and they only care about themselves. She refuses to help Humanity when Earth was invaded, stating that "the cruel reality is that while Earth is under attack, we can prepare our defenses" (I bet the 3rd Fleet survivors REALLY appreciate that comment). And even when Shepard expresses a desire to create a Turian/Krogan alliance (AND SUCCEEDS), she still refuses to help. The Asari Councilor is the worst of the lot. All talk and no action, a true politician. Even the Salarian and Turian Councilors offered Shepard SOME support, even if they couldn't act directly (Turian Councilor telling Shepard about the Primarch to sidestep the politics, Salarian Councilor directing Salarian support for the War Effort, despite the Dalatrass's wishes).
The one thing that frustrated me more than anything other than the endings in ME3, is that we NEVER got a chance, not even ONE, to stick a middle finger at the council's faces & tell them 'i fucking told you so!'.
You get to say "I warned you" when the turian councillor speaks to you in mass effect 3 if that counts He just says they can talk about it later but never does
I hated how In Mass Effect 1 That every squad mate was programmed to play devils advocate to the other in choices like this. Like in some versions garrus is very pro saving the council instead. It should’ve been based on their actual character and what they would support instead of just giving exposition for consequences of a choice
@@Medicesca Play your cards right and you can have Kaiden be the renegade and Wrex actually be the paragon in the situation despite him being literally programmed to almost always be the renegade score wise
If you save the council as a renegade the meeting at the end is different aswell. The meeting is in the council chambers instead of the presidium and the music is more sinister. They mention your ruthless pursuit of Saren and say that they need humanity and its strength.
Sadly that's not really Garrus, it depends on the characters you bring, the more renegade character will say the renegade suggestion while the more paragon character will say the other one, I brought Wrex and Garrus and in my case Wrex was the one asking if I would sacrifice humans to save the council.
I personally choose udina cause I wouldn't want anderson to deal with the dumb politics. Political distortion was pretty much the reason anderson left the council anyway.
I just wish that by choosing Anderson, we got access to the Spectre weaponry from ME1, even the initial weaponry was absurdly good, I never saw the performance of the Tier 10 equipment because I had no idea it existed.
@@decimation9780 The Tier 10 Master Specter gear basically shreds anything that exists anywhere in the galaxy and turns any playthrough’s combat difficulty into easy regardless of the other factors.
@@jaydenshepard7928 Eh, depends. On easy difficulty, yeah. But on the hardest, the enemies can take a punch, especially the damn biotic ones. Also Primes could take a serious beating even from a full mag dump into their lightbulb with the Tier X Spectre assault rifle. Point being, you being a Spectre should come with more benefits than just a few situations where you can use that Spectre rank to get out of situations, it should unlock new weapons for you.
@@decimation9780 Well yes ofc the enemies will still be beefier against an X tier gearset if you turn up the difficulty level…I meant relatively. Like those enemies will be at an easy level of resistance for more normal weapons against the X at higher levels. As for the last part I agree ofc, but its too late for any of that.
The biggest difference in ME2 is the Turian shop owner. If you save the Council he will want to name his firstborn after you. If you didn't, he will just greet you with "Human..."
I always save the Destiny Ascension not because of the council, but because of the Destiny Ascension, in the beggining of the game, Ashley states that "it's guns could tear through any ship in the Alliance fleet" i save it because it sounds more logical to save the strongest ship to take out Soverign.
I understand your logic with bigger gun the better but as history as shown example Nazi Germany bigger and more powerful usually doesn't dictate victory its only 1 ship a larger and more maneuverable fleet of human ships is more affective vs a reaper the tiger tank was amongst the best of ww2 while it could easily beat most tanks 1v1 it was usually 1 tiger vs 5 Sherman's.
@@jamesbutson7051 yet there are situations that happened after stalingrad where a single tiger would knock out up to 40 to 50 tanks till running out of ammo and having to retreat.
@@borderreaver4615 easy to do in a defensive position against an enemy unaware of said vehicle and tbe doctron of charge the enemy until the line breaks which in the end it did
honestly, the council in mass effect one did everything right, they waited until impartial evidence to convict Saren and Shephard sounds like a late night history channel conspiracy theorist when talking about the reapers. But come mass effect two I can understand the hatred
The council became cartoonishly incompetent and inept in the sequels, all sort of boiling in ME3 where the reapers finally invade the galaxy like Shepard has been warning them and when he now asks them for aid, they go "lol, reapers are too busy fucking over earth so we have some time to prepare!" And you never had the option to at least rub in their bureaucratic faces that you were right and the galaxy lost precious prep time because of their incompetence. I would say the council is a parody of modern politics and things like the UN that never actually do anything until it's far too late but given how much modern politics has taken a parodic turn, its horrifying accurate
@@guilhermehank4938 You can say to Sparatus (Turian councillor) that you warned them years ago, and he just says something like “that’s the past, let’s focus on the here and now”
“It’s the Alliance, thank the Goddess!” This part and the music always gets me in the feels. It’s just such a noble sacrifice and to see humanity fighting for other races is heartwarming.
I always save The Council. Despite them actively refusing to listen to Shepard and the Reaper threat, they are the foundation of galactic stability. They are politicians, but as easy as it is to hate them, you can’t just randomly replace them with someone else and go “Hey look! Everything is the exact same now!”
Which is why it’s annoying how in Mass Effect 3, everything is basically the same, plus or minus a few points that you won’t need if you play all the game’s content before the ending. It’s another case showing why Mass Effect 3 need a couple more year of dev time IMO.
@@JurzGarz Imagine what could ME3 have been like if it came out at like 2014 instead. Typical case of EA soiling everything they touched for the past decade & a half or so.
@@JurzGarz the problem was the time ME3 was released. In that time companys only thought about multiplayer, especially EA. Look at the other great space game of that time, Dead Space 3. Besides, the franchises followed the same path almost in the same years: good first game, awsome second game, dissppointing third game, because of the same reasons. At least Biowere survived that shit years, not the same about Visceral Games...
There is actually another difference in War Assets beyond the human fleets and Destiny Ascension. If you save the Council, the Salarian Third Fleet war asset becomes available if the Salarian Councilor survives Kai Leng, worth 125 War assets (increased by 8 via a sidequest), but if you sacrifice the Council, you do not get the Salarian Third Fleet, but instead the "STG Task Force" worth only 70 points. The new Salarian Councilor must still survive in this case. As a result, saving the Council is, in fact, worth more War Assets than sacrificing them.
Not Really, the difference is just the points from the side quest. Done the math. Max is +3 points Saving the useless council: -75 fleets -25 Ad Mikhailovic. +70 Ascension +125 SalThirdFl = +95 (+8 with sidequest) Doing the right thing: (Humanity takes few losses) +75 fleets +25 Miki -70 Asce + 70Stg = 100 points 3 Points are worth letting the council burn with the stupid ascension and not sacrificing human lives. Also humanity stronger, galaxy stronger.
If that's your viewpoint, I can't be bothered to try to change it. However, the question here is a matter of pure numbers. 3 more points is 3 more points, and from a matter of absolute pure numbers, that 3 point difference makes saving the Council the numerically superior option. Besides, it means that douchebag Mikhailovic dies. The nicest thing he can ever say to Shepard is that his report "Will not be as negative as I had planned." That is the *nicest* thing he says. Fucker can burn, I'll happily trade him to keep the Council alive. At least Sparatus ends up telling us how to get what we need.
@@Blazieth Ehh I wouldn't consider him a douchebag. It's easy to see why something like the Normandy could be considered a waste of resources from his point of view. I can't exactly recall what he said, but the cost of the Normandy was equivalent to a heavy ship of a larger class and/or a sizeable unit of frigates. It's a point of view you could agree with. Would you rather have 50 small conventional tanks, a larger conventional tank with greater firepower + durability, or a single small experimental tank that has stealth capabilities? The only off comments I can really recall from him is his reluctance of your alien crew members as he wants to protect Alliance secrets. This is off putting considering the threat you're up against as it is no time for a lack of cooperation, but if he's guilty of that, the whole damn galaxy is way more guilty of being unprepared uncooperative goat scrotum suckers despite Shepard's warnings of the Reaper threat.
@@Blazieth 3 points dont matter in this game lmao, the council are absolute shit bags…the epitome of career politicians in every way. Their replacements are notably more competent and less of incompetent dickheads, especially when you compare the replacement for the dickhead in chief…the old Turian council member. If anything you’re doing the other races a favor because it forces them to wake the fuck up and realize they arent all that. They have to become better. It cleans out the drainage pipes a fair bit as does any crisis. Seeing themselves going from leading the galaxy to playing second fiddle to the humans would realistically shock the hell out of everyone else, forcing them to get their shit together or be left behind. The Roman empire had this happen a several different times, where having a crisis or having important figures killed forced them out of their complacency and they had to cast that shit aside, cut out the fat, cleanse out the corruption and bureaucracy, etc etc to deal with it. Things only got worse again when peace and stability returned and remained for too long, which eventually led to stagnation and decadence returning. The same patterns can be observed in our own world, in the current time. Weve had it easy for so long, no real threats, no large scale wars. Nothing but bullshit basically, and because of that decadence and complacency has continued to rise unchecked. Compare that to WW2, or even in brief period following 9/11 and its a stark difference. Sadly the latter didn’t last because we werent facing much of a true threat, and it quickly just became normalized and for the most part didn’t even affect the vast majority of the populace anyways.
I love the trilogy, but i wish choices had a bigger impact. Even if all the ME2 crew dies during the suicide mission, it doesnt affect me3 as much as it could. They just have substitutes instead...
@@hyhena-gaming9986 There are several smaller impacts, just not much in the aspect of big impacts A big impact would be stuff like unavailable missions. Like if Legion died during the suicide mission, so you cant do the geth fighter mission in 3, and such.
@@HOTD108_ Ahh yeah If my memory serves me right that does sound about right. Ive only played The Walking Dead one, and still havent done final season yet.
@@Kiwijr2579 True. It would be nice if all the squad members were a bit more consistent with their morals, but I get why they need to explain both choices.
The reason why I choose to always save the council is to prove to the other races that humans are not always selfish and that good can come from humanity. The underdog story is just incredible.
One of my main points of reasoning in ME1 of saving the council was that having their lives personally in jeopardy by sovereign they are going to take the threat serious...... And then ME2 comes and they double down on their disbelief. What the!!! What sort of real person does that?
yeah that's why letting them die is more consistent, at least the new council has a reason not to believe you if you let the old council die.If you save them I can't understand well enough why they still believe the reapers aren't a threat.
I chose to save the council for a different reason, I felt that doing so would cause anger in many of the races when I need them to be united against a real threat, pissing off everyone else and putting humans in charge would have made it harder to gain support from others imo when I first played. I made the choice to show them humanity has their backs and is willing to sacrifice for their allies and prove their place among them, my hatred of the council had no sway in my decision, it was the public I was after.
Indeed. Saving the council is the correct thematic choice. The whole game is about newcomer humanity proving themselves a worthy part of the community.
I actually prefer the original council to the new one. A lot. Tevos seems like a genuine person. Sparatus can be a jerk but gets better in ME3. Valorn needs more credit for being a male salarian politician which is rare in the lore. Also, it’s nice not having most aliens on the Citadel hate you in 2.
I've lost count of how many playthroughs I've done of the trilogy and I never once even considered saving the council. Now watching this video and seeing the ME2 consequences part, I think I never will.
I'm surprised how many people save the council. In the moment I always found it more important to make sure you stop Sovereign. I didnt know till this video that both could be done.
@@justsomeguy4099 Sovereign will be stopped one way or another. It's just a matter of how many bodies pile up before he's taken down. When the dust settles however, that's when things go back to the mundane stage of preparing for the actual threat there's to come, a stage where political aftermath has very real effects. Not saving the council would only make humanity look like selfish, unruly, & overly ambitious gits who care for no one other than themselves. Every other species would resent humanity even more & make rallying the races together harder.
Look from their perspective Shepard was dead for 2 years and suddenly came and started to say about Reapers and joining Cerberus a known terrorist group, acknowledging him means people will join terrorist group and that happened in ME3 when Volus Ambassador started to support Cerberus because Shepard was with them.
Man, I didn't think Legendary Edition improved as much as it did on the graphics. The difference is legitimately like night and day now that I'm looking back
One of the Alliance Cruisers destroyed while saving the Destiny Ascension was SSV Emden, named after a relatively small German Port City. However SMS Emden was also the name of a light Cruiser that served in the German East Asian Squadron and was left behind to go on a campaign of Commerce Raiding - and succeded in doing that quite impressively until she eventually encountered and Australian Heavy Cruiser off the Coast of New Geuinea and was sunk in the ensuing battle. I always loved how Mass Effect paid tribute to this. Also left me wondering if the Cruiser still had a WW1 Iron Cross 1st class painted on her hull as the original Emden was rewarded one and according to German Naval customs that award had been handed down to each and every subsequent namesake ever since.
Whatever you think of the Council, saving the Ascension is one of my favourite scenes in the whole series. It feels good saving that big beautiful ship, but it's also incredibly sad watching some of the Alliance ships go down. And the music that plays is perfect.
Actually saving the council also gives you a Salarian fleet war asset worth 125 if you save the original salarian councillor again in me3 Which is worth 55 more points than the stg task force you get for saving the new councillor after letting them die in me1
I thought saving the council gives you more war assets. It's been probably close to years since I've played any of the mass effect games and that's what I thought too. Plus, being reinstated as a spectre only happens if you save the council. It's not a very huge thing in Mass Effect 2 but it does help out.
@@danielgroeling4750 You can be reinstated as a spectre even if you don't save them, if you choose Anderson as the human councilor. In fact, you wont be reinstated as a spectre only if you BOTH choose Udina and not save the Council.
@@DannySleepwalker You wont get your spectra status back only if you "let the council die." Ive chosen "concentrate on sovereign" a few times and except first playthrough choose Udina as councilor and always got mine back.
Yeah, that's kinda endemic of a problem that Mass Effect developed over time. In the first ME, Paragon and Renegade were both options that made sense and just had different outcomes and/or costs. The paragon is the diplomat, but ready to fight if necessary, appealing to people's better natures and inspiring people to try to be like them, but at personal cost in some way. Paragon was more humane, but less efficient. The renegade, on the other hand, is the guy you send in when a mission HAS to get done, no matter what. He'd intimidate, bribe, brutalize and kill his way to his objective. Renegade was cold hard efficiency, with some asshole flavoring on the side. The problem starts in ME2, where you pretty much HAVE to pick a side and stick with it, unless you're importing a save, and even then, you're still incentivized to be be pure Paragon or Renegade. Add on to that, that the personal cost for being Paragon has been massively reduced, if not removed entirely, and Renegade options start becoming more straight-up evil. First big moral choice you get to make in ME2-SPOILERS-has you decide whether to take a traumatized, sick Quarian who has compiled some data you need into Cerberus custody for a while, or let Tali take him back to the flotilla and she'll give you the data anyway. The ONLY way this would even slightly make sense is if you didn't trust Tali to actually give you the data, but they take every chance they can to show the inherent trust that there is between Tali and Shephard. In ME1, you get to decide who Shephard is, but from ME2 onwards, Bioware has decided who Shephard is and you just get penalized for not staying in character as the big damn hero as opposed to the necessary evil.
A big appreciation to Big D for all of those vids. They help a lot to find the most fitting decision in "best" walkthrough, not just playing democratic hero/cold-blood warrior.
5:04 I remember that when I first saw this, it reassured me that I made the right choice in letting the "old"/previous council die. Note: I was specifically referring to when the Turian Councilor said "We have dismissed that claim". I mean, "Just like when the Alliance bailed your a--es?" (dismissing their sacrifices)
I never save them. It's ridiculous, no matter how many reapers appeared, they always find excuses to not help you. Besides, all squadmates had a point: Why sacrifice so many ships and lives for the council? I mean, if things were different, the council wouldn't help humanity.
@@matiascamposaliaga8681 Like it or not, the council is the very embodiment of galactic cohesion, & the reapers are indeed a very inconvenient & unpleasant truth. They serve as the will of galactic society as a whole, & their denial of the reapers' existence, however frustrating ad it may be, is simply a display of the galactic society's unwillingness to face one such dooming truth. Humanity is already seen as an unruly, overly ambitious upstart way before the events of the games. Not saving the council is equivalent to sticking your middle finger at the rest of the galaxy, declaring once & for all, that humanity really doesn't deserve to be on the council.
I chose : Focus on the sovereign. Does this count as let them die :P? Iit was the most pragmatic and rational approach as a soldier. Eliminating the threat to biological life outweighed the potential loss of the council, which can be replaced. By choosing to "focus on the enemy," it signifies a rational and unemotional decision, unaffected by any antipathy towards the council.
This is just one of the outcomes you can get by saving the council. IIRC, you can in ME2 if they agree to meet with you say "I was resurrected by the Cerberus, but I have no allegiance to them." and then offer to forward any information on Cerberus´s information and operations to either the Alliance or the Council as a double agent. This choice actually makes the council realize what a fucking asset they just got and accepts your offer by "publicly denouncing your actions, but privately acting on your information" and I think the Alliance basically says the same. However, I don´t remember how to get that choice but I think it requires that you proactively refuse to cooperate with Cerberus and have a carry over file were you have encountered a few of their operations in ME1 - but don´t quote me on that because I haven´t played these games since they came out. Also, I don´t think it came too much into play in ME3 if you did this choice.
Seeing all those fleets come in through the Charon Relay makes me feel feels, but once you see the Destiny Ascension appear to help you, out of absolute respect for saving them, it's a whole other ball game. I just cry lmao
Thank you for doing this video, because even as a hardcore paragon player I always leave them die and I'm not planning on saving them anytime soon or ever.
I can NEVER bring myself to save the council. I only wish I could kill them off in every game. Make it an achievement in Mass Effect 1-3. "Time to Hit Refresh" 1, 2, 3.
Saving the Council is never a choice about actually saving them, it's always about the grander implications. It's a real shame that the writing didn't allow for a truly diverging narrative if you made either choice, the end result is the same, the only difference is how the other races interact with humans. Udina talked a big game about installing what were essentially "Puppet Councilors" who would kowtow to Humanity, giving them more galactic authority, but that never actually happens. Would've been really cool if that decision had a much larger scale impact and humanity actually became the dominant voice on the Council.
It is WORTH to save the Council. After all, in Mass Effect 3, you get the Destiny Ascension as War Asset. And it also appears in the scene, where you go back to Earth. :)
@@billsutherby but if you keep the salarian councilor from being assassinated in me3, his reward is a fleet thay more than offsets the point difference compared to his replacement who gives you and STG unit.
@@benjaminsimmons5356 You can sacrifice the whole council in ME1 and still save the salarian councilor in ME3. Whether or not you get the salarian fleet is based completely on if you sabotage the genophage or not.
@@billsutherby the fleet you get from sabatoging the genophage is the Salarian 1st fleet for 150 points. The fleet you you get for saving the original Salarian councior from assasination is the Salarian 3rd fleet for 125 points. 2 completely different war assets.
@@peti8155 You can't even if you choose Anderson. The new Council will refuse to communicate with Shepard and Anderson will not be able to regain the spectre status. Since the Council vetoes all Anderson's decisions and does not listen to him especially.
Going through these videos now that you did before LE released, it's so significant to see just how improved the graphics and game play are now! So cool. :-)
Just finished ME1 and chose to not save the council. Given the dire circumstances, it seemed much more appropriate to concentrate all efforts in destroying Sovereign.
But if they die, there's no leaders for their people. New elections will waste time, racial tensions will increase, humans will be seen as racists and Cerberus will gain more of a foothold due to descent among species. It's a matter of hearts and minds: It's wise to focus on the enemy but, if there's millions of enemies just like them coming, you need an army of everyone you can get.
@@WolfyFancyLads You are fighting a Reaper. At the time Shepard doesn't even know what they are capable of, only that they have wiped out numerous civilizations. The Destiny Ascension is damaged and out of the fight. Wasting assets to save some politicians is a terrible move strategically. You win the battle regardless, but I don't play like that. I don't meta game, I make decisons based on the information Shepard has at the time. Shepard knows that if Sovereign is not destroyed and is allowed to take control of the Citadel, the Reapers will invade and all advanced civilizations in the galaxy will be destroyed, not just humans. The battle of the Citadel must be won, regardless of the cost. With the fate of the galaxy on the line, I don't think Shepard is concerned with Council elections. And risking defeat so someone doesn't call Shep a racist is insane.
@@frankwalsh1916 It's not meta gaming and have you SEEN the racial tensions in society in reality? Guns draw, people stabbed, shit goes down fast. Now imagine that on a galactic scale, with races willing to go to war, not just post comments online. Imagine if all out war started between races because extremists of one or more species refused to believe in reapers and rallied others to resent humans as "they clearly hate our kind!". You'd be dead, everyone would think of themselves and be wiped out by the reapers as a result, all because they see humans as racists. And that's just ONE of the issues caused by letting them die. As for meta gaming, you gotta remember it took the *entire* fleet and killing robo-Saren to destroy a single reaper. If everyone distrusts humans, they won't send ships to help. Just ten reapers could wipe out every member of the alliance, then they waltz onto their next species to harvest. Just look at how ME3 plays out even IF you save everyone. All that death, all that chaos, and that's with a massive army. Now imagine that without any other race helping you, looking out for themself, just humans. No Priority: Earth. No Crucible. Just death. The Council are assholes but saving them shows the galaxy they matter to humanity, that you'll save them when shit goes south, which means they'll listen when you need them. Hearts and minds wins wars, it's a rule of engagement used for centuries. A massive army won't change anything if everyone you pissed off is looking to destroy it instead of join it.
@@WolfyFancyLads Sovereign is minutes away from taking control of the Citadel, and unleashing the Reaper invasion. In a similar situation in the Arrival DLC, Shep sacrifices 300 thousand Batarians, to stop the Reaper invasion, an act much more difficult to justify. He is not worried about his reputation, he is trying to save the galaxy. He would rather people be alive to judge him harshly, then be dead. Sacrificing the Council to concentrate on Sovereign is totally justifiable strategically. The Council races could never declare war on humanity in that scenario. In fact, I would argue the leaders of a militaristic, pragmatic society like the Turians would probably criticize shep if he didn't sacrifice the Council.
@@WolfyFancyLads I brought up meta-gaming because all of your justifications for saving the council are assuming the Battle of the Citadel is won. You as a player know the outcome is predetermined, but the character Shepard does not. Saving the council does not help destroy Sovereign, it is a political decison, not a military one. That is why I believe Concentrating on Sovereign is the only justifiable decision strategically.
Honestly I think it’s a no brainier, an entire alliance fleet or a council of 3 people which is easily replaced? I sacrificed the council every time in 10 or so play throughs 😂
what i miss in later games is nuisance. i picked ' focus on sovereign'. that gave me equal paragon/renegade points. they always say i let the council die to push humanity when in truth i made a tactical decision in the heat of the moment based on the best chance of success. in ME2 and ME3 you're either a good person of a jerk for it. no nuisance.
why? they're elected officials right? what happens when one dies? they put another one in their place. it's not like they stick around long enough to be likeable characters. your spectre status is only relevant in ME1. it's an empty title in the second game and given back regardless in the third game.
In my opinion you dont just save the council and the Destiny, you also show humanity can put the good of the galaxy above the itself. And from gameplay perspective its almost imposible to change the narative of the council, imagine if in ME2 council is like yeah take all the spectre assets you need, that would be such a drastic change to either lore or gameplay.
I’m more pissed off about the council not believing Shepard after what they went through. They knew by the end that saren was working with a reaper and that they exist but instead decide to not believe the person who saved their ass from 2 seperate things both actively threatening their survival 😡
What I find especially funny is that the Ascention really is just on the path towards the Citadel. The Alliance has to actually make a detour around the Ascention and that in a distance where they could have still very capably shot at the Geth in a driveby. Really weird to animate it like that.
No matter what you are labeled as a rogue spectre and the council wont listen to you until their lives are endangered. Literally I threw a bone to council 3 times (me1:warns and proves the reapers are really, me2: the collectors are found out to be the ones making ships and people disappear and are working on a way of being the reapers over, me3: Reapers are attack everyone and as shepherd warned and told people to prep the shepherd is ignored knowing the inevitable invasion) and they continued to be pricks. But that's how politicians do their thing. They'll thank you for a second than airlock you into space within the hour. Plus when the harvest is happening it's more of "hey shepherd help is do this and maybe we'll help". It's such a facepalm.
There is one other war assets difference. If you saved the council and you save the salaran councilor in ME3, you get the third Salarian Fleet which is worth more than the STG team you get if you saved the salarian councilor but let the original council die.
i kinda hoped when the Alliance saved the council, they split the fleet instead of stalling to destroy sovereign. paragon views between saving the council and destroying sovereign is equally important. at leqst it would be more realistic. (but i love the scene of letting the council die tho)
No point in holding back anything then. The Citadel hadn't opened up yet and wouldn't until either the 'Ascension dies first or you spend lives destroying the geth fleet first. Pragmatically, even without the politics involved it represents a huge investment of time, materials and personnel trained to use it. Pragmatically thinking, I'd have thought the Alliance fleet would have the advantage of surprise to keep from wasting ships and crew, that should have kept the casualties and loss of ships to a severe minimum. Yet we get a 1\3rd loss or something like that.
The biggest difference is the turian arms dealer in ME2. If you save the council he is very friendly, if you let the council die, then he has a strong dislike for humans, and humans are generally not liked by other species.
I think it'd be a really cool thing that if your shepard either romanced and stayed loyal or was just a really good friend to the Virmire survivor then the trust mechanic would work differently and Kaiden / Ashley wouldn't say "I hope I don't regret this" and instead they'd immediately turn on Udina because they know Shepard better than that.
In the big victory, when you lauch the assault video to attack to re-take Earth, what i don't get it, it's in the year when the dlc from LEVIATHANS came out, you can see them, after that since then, you NEVER see them like here when you show the Destiny Ascension...anyone else have noticed yet?
There is also the turian shopkeeper who either loves you or hates you depending on your decision at the end of Mass Effect 1. If you let the council die he will hate you, as will many other species in passing comments. If you let the council live, everybody accepts humanity with open arms, including the shopkeeper who will do nothing but sing your praises. I was actually surprised one time when I let the council live, as I usually make the decision to let them die.
Yea... Just bad writing there. Guess they weren't able to come up with something better. At the same time it does match their arrogance for most of ME1 save the final scene and why the contrast back to full stupid with a plus is jarring in ME2
Ugh, I always hate to save them, but it is the right thing to do. It just sucks that after everything that happens, they still believe Shepard is crazy and mentally ill until hell shows up at the door. And even then, now they only seek to protect their own.
I always save the council, mostly because I care about the soldiers on the Destiny Ascension. Also, it just sounds better narratively. Humans, snubbed by the three council races, were the bigger people. When it came down to it they sacrificed lives to save those who looked down on them.
Great video! I sacrificed them on my initial playthrough making decisions I figured I'd actually make in the situation. I never understood the logic behind saving the Council. Not factoring for metagaming, it's possibly the most risky decision Shepard could make for minimal payout. The actual harbinger of doom for all life is here. If some politicians die, who cares? Focus on the big, alien devil. Spare every resource to put it down, or ALL life pays.
THE COUNCIL STILL DOESN'T BELIEVE THE REAPERS ARE REAL(choosing to save them in me1) even tho soverign literally attacked the citadel in front of their eyes and they "dismiss" the claim of the reapers existing and saying that saren fooled us WE DONT NEED IGNORANT LEADERS THATS STUPID, thank god i chose to let council die on my first playthrough
I've watched a few of your videos now and the only thing I'd really like is a tabulation of the results per game as an end-slate. You did similar with the Genophage but not completely. You showed the difference between the ways you could sabotage it but not compared against letting it happen. I think a tree-lile structure would be best especially for choices that start in ME1.
The funny part about people who go all in on "tactical analysis of the situation" regarding saving the Destiny Ascension and loosing Alliance ships is that they never takes into account the entire Geth Fleet that is now at the rear of your fleet while you engage Sovereign. I know it never plays out in actual cutscene, Bioware I guess just has them fly away after killing the Ascension....however, if you are trying to ad hoc justify killing the council out of spite, maybe consider that flying past an enemy fleet, leaving your entire flank exposed to the geth fleet is actually significantly worse than attacking sovereign with less ships. And in addition, since we go to war with the geth to push them back after Sovereign dies, taking out the consolidated fleet while it is distracted should speed up the end of the war dramatically. From a political stand point saving them is much better because it is essential the difference between a hostile take over (killing the council and taking its place) versus doing what the Turians did with the Krogan, swooping in and saving the day. In one case we are the heroes saving the galaxy and cementing that we are to be trusted as a species to the broader galaxy and getting a place on the council. On the other we are opportunists ready to take control when presented the opportunity. Its honestly silly how Bioware handled that setting. There is no world in which they did not just elect new members. Surely there was a chain of succession. For us to claim full control is essentially a coup, and one that would surely end in another Turian/human war. I mean imagine us trying to get assistance in ME3 from the council races after launching a Coup the last time an attack happened? They would never trust or help us. And then Cerberus does another Coup while reapers are attacking, using the same councilor that did it the first time? We would have nobody pushing back against the reapers and we would have all been harvested. I know none of this matters in the games because the outcome is the same, but if we are trying to argue as if this is some real life scenario, saving the council shouldn't even be an option. I mean really Sheppard shouldn't even be able to make that call, Hackett should be the one deciding. And the above reasons are precisely why.
i better not regret this only comes if u visit Kaiden/Ashley 3 times during their recovery in hurta memorial ( before first departure + after waking up + after full recovery ) ... this has absolutely nothing to do with council being saved ...
it would have been cool to join cerberus on mass effect 2 and to literrally still be with them on the 3 game to fight together and even if shepard dies damn atleast have the reapers die forever and have a New enemy on mass effect 4 cause i think those annoying overpower reapers will come back again
Again just like saving Ash over Kaiden because ash is securing the escape route and Kaiden isn't, saving the council makes no sense. Sovereign is already about to use the transmitter to signal the Reaper Invasion Fleet and enemy soldiers have already landed in the docks. The Citadel Fleet is already keeping the bulk of the enemy fleet fixed, the choice of where to reinforce is clear. Sorry Counsel. 🤷♂️
Saving the Council could have more sense for: 1) human more accepted in the citadel and relaxed politic debates for the upcoming times 2) the strenght of the Destiny Ascension for future wars 3)the geth fleet that attack the Ascension, after eventualy blowing it, could become an enemy force that could flanks the alliance fleets... so destroing them in the first place leaves the Sovereing nearly alone, wich is a tactical advantage (in the game this is not reflected because it treats the geths as they kills the council and then simply turns off and watch the Sovereing against the Alliance fleets, wich is not realistic...)
For all you people talking about how you wouldn’t save the council, maybe cause there are so many people/aliens it doesn’t matter, but losing leaders can lead to huge loss in moral and be the reason a war is lost
