the drive button is such a crazy thing. it WILDLY changes between characters. for ragna its just a bigger C button, for carl its how you drive your neesan, for tao its the do cat stuff button. its THE gimmick button, and if you play multiple characters, the insane amount of ways arcsys has managed to make "pressing this button" different is a testament of character battle design. you negative edge with carl, you slide input follow every hit tao does with drive, for makoto you charge the button to charge the punch, for nu/lamb youre mashing the shit out of the button and yanking the stick. its such a jewel of fighting games.
I have been playin a lot of bbcf, and I love how every character is so different and unique. It makes it hard to learn any character you want, but it makes each characters depth endless. This game is so good.
As a huge Rachel main it almost brings me to tears to see bae in the thumbnail. I’ve never had so much fun playing a char in my life, she can be played in so many different ways and is mad rewarding
Rachel is a character that could only ever exist in a Japanese fighting game of the time; where the culture around the JP scene was dominated by lab monsters that games of the new millenium created
I Fear that one day that lab monsters wont exist in fighting games because either there is very little value to labbing or even worse, there is very little to even lab and discover. I love labbing for hours as much as a I love playing long ass sets, and if half of the reason I like a genre dies I would be quite sad. I love going and playing old games and discovering tech(usually old so it's rediscovering ig) because so many games were basically "fuck you, if you wanna get good make the hands bleed in the lab cunt" and I love it. I also like games that don't have a ridiculous amount of stuff to lab as well for sure, but games made for lab monster games have a special place in my heart.
@@nicholaskarras2759 this is why I support skullgirls with everything in my being. It’s still being worked on and it is a labby fucking game for sure. I agree with you. I hope people that produce fighting games continue to keep a balance. I like strive because it’s helping me practice basics of fighting games without having to lab a lot to hop in and run games but I hope games continue to come out that are labby
@@fgcbird not a massive fan of strive probably because I was spoilt with XX(specifically ACPR as its my favourite even tho ive played Xrd and the other XX titles). But I will say strive has done something which I think is good which is make a game game play accessible without drastically reducing the skill ceiling of the game through the accessibility(I don't think the skill ceiling is as high as older titles dont get me wrong, but thats from other design aspects not simply because its more accessible) and its packed full of system features that I think should be standard in all fighting games, like roll back netcode, a feature packed training mode, a movelist thats new player friendly , a decent enough tutorial (could be better but by far not the worst) skill based match making. A lot of people are stuck on this weird divide where they don't want games to get more accessible because they equate accessibility with the game being easy, when its simply not the same thing. Skill floor and ceiling can be exclusive to each other it just means youve gotta build taller walls. I want games to stop being easy, because that invalidates labbing in the training mode. BUT I AM ALL FOR ACCESSIBILITY. I could talk ad nauseum about how I would personally design a fighting game to be playable for a causal audience and still have the mechanical depth a competitive player or a lab monster like myself would enjoy (lab monsters aren't always tournament grinders) because I for a hobby project want to eventual build a fighting game. There's so much shit you could do, although I think the most important ones are probably shifting new players and onlookers perception of how fighting games are played is probably the best way, a lot of people think fighting games are just long hard boring combos that you have to spend hours learning before you can even play which isn't true at all, I think getting the word out that fighting games are way more diverse in their game play loop, and making a tutorial that emphasizes things like learning anti-airs and simple BnBs than just going and playing matches is the best way to enjoy it as a beginner, and that training mode is a tool not a gamemode you have to play before actually playing the game, a decent single player experience would also be nice for a change and if done correctly could be a learning tool (Imagine a stage in one of the levels where the AI only does a mixture of Sweep Throw or over head and plays neutral, to teach players to figureout that aspect of the game by defending and punishing the sweep or reading the throw and pressing a fast normal, you could also give bonus points for little level specific challanges like "do x amount of combos that are Y long in the match for Z bonus points" and the points actually go to unlockable content and not just THE VOID) preferably bundeling single player content and the tutorial together so new players stay engagded with the tutorial and also dont get all the tutorial infirmation within the first 7 minutes of opening the game and having mental overload, you could also make a beginner and advanced tutoral 1 for very new players with the bare minimum to learn and play the game and 1 for experienced players who already know that stuff and want game specifics new players don't need to learn deeply about SMP, undizzy effective health wake up timings etc etc all within their first few minutes, and also combo trials for a game actually starts out with a basic but usable BnB for players(and that tells them, that X bnb is a real combo and Y combo is just a fun little trial you wouldnt use in a real match) so that new players get to learn a combo and play on Day 1 and actually have a cool combo to do and not just mash buttons get frustrated and quit. Theres also convincing casual players to stay with stuff like unlockable or paid for cosmetics(one of the reasons league is still popular I theorize), a cool story mode (maybe DLC stories that are actually good, like SC2) party modes like a non-comeptitive 2v2 mode, skill based match making so they dont get bodied every game by a veteran player, making the game look and sound cool, dont charge 60 dollars for a new character and if you do at least make it free in training mode. All this shit isn't making the game easier its literally just properly teaching new players how to actually fucking play instead of hiding game mechanics and giving fuck all explanation on how games are played and just expecting you to play 200 hours before you get intuitive game feel ( cough cough tekken), or giving stuff to incentivise casual players to keep playing thats not just balancing around tournament players, it's literally not about getting ride of combo routes or simplifying neutral for accessibility reasons that aren't for overall game feel, its just teaching players the game, or give them the tools to learn it. Sorry for the rant, need to throw ideas into the void.
@@jonatanp.1976 Even characters like Ragna, Drive is just a gimmick to structure your combos around. The aesthetic and idea of it being something that only your character has makes it feel a lot cooler than it is on paper, which I think is the designers doing their jobs really well. Az's Drive has more depth than Ragna's I would say, but they both do a good job making you feel the way both of those characters should feel
Rachel is the reason i love playing blazblue. I love how different she is and how she can mix you to hell. Thanks for tbe vid LK. Also i peep the chrono trigger music!
After watching Jiyuna's video on BlazeblueI think it was. That's when I knew I wanted to play this game, kind of pumped me to get into actual fighting games. I was already a viewer of one fighting game creator, JMCrofts but apart from spectating, there was no feels for me to get into fgs. Then Strive came into existence, played +R first, learnt to mash and to be defensive after a 0-50 run. Played Fantasy Strike, learnt the flow of the fight. And now I'm playing Strive, slowly trying to clean all my inputs so that I can discover combos. I hope I get a chance to play new and gimmick filled Blazeblue by the time I improve. Guilty Gear and BB seem to be my type of fighting games after having tried some Street Fighter games on Fightcade.
I love your discussions of older games. I'm totally new to fighting games, and this is an easily digestible and entertaining delivery of knowledge that I'd have no idea on how to attain otherwise. Thank you!
Man every time LK brings up CT to talk about what a mess it was, all I'm reminded by watching the clips is how much fun it was. 'course, I played Nu sooooo....
5:25 alright this is COMPLETELY wrong. The list of nerfs she got in CS is endless. Here are the major ones: 6A -> +7 frame recovery 6A -> hitbox is now terrible 6B -> -29 frames of stagger on counterhit (57 in BBCT) making CH confirms almost impossible 5CC -> hitstun greatly reduced making many combos impossible 3C -> -5 frame advantage on block, went from +3 to -2 j.2C -> cannot be jump cancelled anymore j.2C -> cannot be special cancelled anymore (j.2C became punishable on hit if hitting standing characters at head height) wind regen -> added 60 frames of cooldown after use, and slower regen in general Tiny Lobelias (lobbed projectile) -> now the projectile disappears mid-flight if Rachel is hit (horrible notably vs Arakune, and many others) frog -> Now has a 120 frame (!!!!!!) cooldown after frog disappears for any reason (therefore cannot be resummoned to reposition if misplaced) frog -> does not hop around anymore, therefore much slower, but can slide with wind pumpkin summon -> +4 frames of startup pumpkin summon -> +7 frames of recovery pumpkin summon -> now can only be used 1 time in air until landing pumpkin wind activate -> went from 1 frame startup to 5 frames startup pumpkin wind activate -> now disappears if it collides with a projectile And of course the huge damage nerfs that you mentioned. Her neutral was definitely NOT the same, it was completely destroyed. She got a couple buffs, but pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. She went from the best character in the game straight to the worst by far. And yes, I will spend hours of research just to prove a point.
My main getting some attention you love to see it. And I cant lie I'm surprised they left half the shit she has in cf in the game. Fuzzies, unscaled specials etc. Shes crazy when optimized lmfao
She's strong, but also one of the hardest characters to play well. If she gets rushed down it's very hard for her! PS. Rachel in an on- looker she needs to be OP
Jin always felt like the most "fair" character to me in every iteration of BB. None of the games did I think "wow Jin is so oppressive and super unfair. I can't play the game."
a part of me thought you were gonna mention Yoshimitsu, ngl😄 that was a highly unique character, easily one of the weirdest character designs between Tekken or Soul Cal, depending on what you're looking at.
CS1 Rachel was awful man. You had to spend like 2-3 wind to do a 2k dmg combo off instant overhead j.a and put George on cd so you were left with no oki. No more j.2c overheads, 6a had shit recovery, pumpkin was slow as fuck. There was a reason all the Rachel players could only win by timing people out with (shittier than CT) zoning. Meanwhile the Bang, Lichi, and Ragna players got like 4k meterless anywhere. Don't believe his lies.
Some points about her match ups in CT: she was able to get out of Carl's clap trap because she could break grab and 6D Carl away to prevent regrab. Also projectiles went through Nirvana iirc. I'm pretty sure she beat Carl in CT. Lost to Nu and was even with Jin. And I wanna say she smacked Kune too. He's a plastic bag drifting through her wind. The trade off for Rachel's bullshit is that she has always been a difficult character to master. I started 2D fighters with Rachel and boy was that a mistake. By the time I got her mechanics down, CS was out and they needed her so hard we named the bottom tier after her. Her damage was SO abysmal that you often had to sacrifice Oki for a 6C finisher. High demand for wind, frog meter, j.2C died. Rough times. Fortunately, by the time CS2 and Extend came out she climbed to the high tier. CP she was average, pumpkin was removed, and SMP required new combo routes that were pretty challenging. I also remember wanting to get creative with combos but that version seemed so restrictive compared to the latest entry.
When you were looking for Rachel vids on your stream I forgot to ask cos I just had you playing in the background. How come you didnt just pull up the Rachel matches you had on your channel? Was that not CT Rachel?
I have no clue if this character was ACTUALLY bad in BBCF but i def remember the period of CF where my local Rachel Player HATED her balance. (But really it felt like they were mad because they couldn't "JUST WIN lul" with her anymore)
I think the most unique character ever was that one that does ground normals in the air. I saw that and just gave up on blazblue instantly lmao. my brain just cant
First, nobody told you to reply. Second, i meant what i said, it is being slept on by arcsy, whats the last bb update they did? A freakin mobile gacha game.
@@GreatRaijin not with any of their current bb "projects" they aint, last i heard it was also doing poorly, and rightfully so, given how it was just a cashgrab. Thing is people don't realize is that mobile gacha games still needs to be designed well to do well. The first time i saw dark war i knew it was gonna be just a cashgrab and flop. As much as you guys want to blame the fgc on this, bb is actually one of the few anime fighter community that has a loyal group of people that just wants the best for it. You forget that the amount of support arcsy did for bb is documented well to be bad compared to lets say gg (recolors, furniture things, etc), if anything I don't blame the fgc for losing interest. Don't act as if arcsy can do no wrong and is a perfect game dev, theyre not. Also if any of you guys are experienced with gacha games, they fund none other than the pockets of the devs, theres no such thing as funding for a rollback or a new game, they have to risk it and create something people will want to buy, bb is not some random anime fighter. If melty can do it, definitely bb can also. Bb is not the only 2d anime fighter that struggles to sell copies, it doesn't get a special pass.
It always felt weird because once Azrael was in the game it was like.......why do I need to play Tager again? He's just so bad in BB meta, he really is.
well duh their role is different. tager is a pure grappler, azrael is huge damage mix up character. azrael dont even have command grab (of course he doesnt need one). tager has gimmick to force opponent close to him, azrael only has growler. tager is high tier in cpex. the best tager has ever been.
Hey LK this may seem random but recently I picked up MBTL and I’m having a hellish time figuring out how to stop people from mashing when everything is negative this is my first melty was wondering if you had any tips at all
I love just listening to you talk about old ass S tier characters. I know you weren't deep in +R IIRC, but I just wanna see you talk over 240p Testament, Baiken, and Zappa clips cause modern characters have nothing on those two Love Rachel and remember playing against her as Bang and being miserable lol
God seeing BBCT makes me feel fuckin old. Makes me miss the game. Only the concept and memories of it, not playing that shit. Fuck that shitty ass game. Ain't as wack as ST but damn that game kuso as fuck
You didn't mention the dumb thing about Rachel's ground tech + wind making her the only character in the game to actually being able to do a full invincible tech forward or backward by doing neutral tech + wind :D This was dumb
Looking at the title of this video reminds me of my biggest problem with Melty Blood Type Lumina currently, and that is the characters are TOO homogenized, with most of the cast having the same game plan of rushdown, and then once the opponent is knockdown the characters will start there oppressive oki, even the combos look similar in structure. One will argue that Melty Blood Type Lumina has complex mechanics that are deep enough that a hardcore player can utilize it stand above most of the competiion, which should make up for the homogenization. But I would argue that games like Guilty Gear Xrd and BlazBlue Central Fiction are games that can have BOTH. For example in BBCF you have characters like: Valkenhayn R Hellsing Valkenhayn is a character that transforms into a wolf by pressing the Drive button, which is a unique action for him, and what helps separate BlazBlue from other fighting games. Anyways, his drive functions as a mode change mechanic, and while In wolf form, Valkenhayn becomes more agile and gains a completely new moveset. However, Valkenhayn cannot block while in this form. Pressing the D button will revert back into human form.There is a gauge that goes down while in wolf form and if the gauge reaches 0, Valkenhayn will automatically transform back into a human and must wait for the gauge to completely refill before he is able to transform again. While in wolf form, the following decreases the Wolf Gauge: Moving backwards, using any of Valkenhayn's wolf form specials, and time spent airborne. The biggest pros to this character is his excellent corner carry, and he also has some of the best neutral in the game, and has strong mixups. Now, with all these strengths listed you would think this character is busted, but he's not broken because wolf form requires meter to use, and the player has to be aware of when to use it. Additionally, he can't block while in form. He also is very slow in human form, with him being unable to run and he has no real defensive options outside of system mechanics ( burst, overdrive cancel, etc). Overall, a very complex and unique character. Amane Nishiki Amane is a character whose drive attacks turn his cloth into a drill he uses to attack his opponent. Using Drive attacks will fill a gauge called the Spiral Gauge for up to three levels. Different levels of Spiral Gauge grant different properties to Amane's Drive Attacks. Here are some of the specifics:There are a total of 3 levels of Spiral Gauge. Gauge increases upon using D attacks and decreases over time. Drill attacks last longer and do more damage with higher level. Gauge builds even on whiffed D attacks.Each attack will deal more hits if the button is held down, with each hit contributing to the Spiral Gauge. Can stop holding moves at any time.Level 3 D moves do a very high amount of chip damage on block. The pros of this character is that Amane's Drive backs up his range and mobility with the best chip damage in the game. It also deals massive damage to the Barrier gauge. With all that said he's not broken, in fact, you won't see him in the top five of many pros tier list, since the man has below-average health, and a lot of moves have huge recoveries on whiff. Additionally, he has a slow run speed, and lack of mix up options. Additionally, Drill can overheat if charged for too long. When overheated, D moves and D specials cannot be used. Overall, a very complex and unique character. The point of me going into extensive detail with these two characters is to show that this information on these two characters wouldn't be under the category of general game knowledge, but instead character specific knowledge, and you need those specifics explained to have any chance of beating characters like these, to which they are many in BlazBlue Central Fiction, and that's why having to learn all of this character specific stuff for each character to which there are over 35 of, in addition to the ton of system mechanics you need to learn to succeed, such as the 4 types of ways to block, tech options when knockdown, etc. and is for these reasons why many fighting game fans like Majin Obama, and Jiyuna consider it be one of the most unique and complex 2D fighting games on the market. And why it wasn't to surprising for me to see the game be at one point so dominant in Japanese arcades. Melty Blood is still fun though, just not as interesting as it's competitors in the genre IMO.
Rachel is such a cool character, but cs was a long time ago Rachel players need to get over it. Tager tho...that man has always been the struggle hahahahahah.
