Radio Free Mormon: 013: Wrong Roads - The faulty Logic of Elder Holland 

“That thumping sound you just heard was Elder Holland throwing God under the bus.” 😂 RFM, I freakin’ love you.

You’re the best RFM! Such great points. As always you are spot on! Your power of discernment is strong my friend!!! Much love♥️

Wow this was great! I could listen to RFM all day.. in fact, that's exactly what I have been doing. His insights are so thought provoking and stimulating.

My heart is tender and I weep. RFM is a romantic and gifted man. I listened to his life story and altered my feelings about him. I know Jeff Holland and taught Matt in SS in Conn. I am aware of Jeff’s story telling drama. This was personal and moving for me and my life. Thank you RFM.

In 67-68 school year, I sat in a front row seat for Conference. I’d been a member for less than one year Paul Dunn was the speaker. I listened and laughed and cried and felt the Spirit. You know the rest of that story. I was in disbelief when the truth came out that he’d made up all the stories!

I'm in the 40 years old wrong (LDS) path too 😡, I feel robbed from all these precious years

This is illuminating, as well as completely discouraging and deflating. I do not support the deceit that the presidency wants my family and I to embrace. My wrong road was 25 years of my life. My children’s life. Not 5 miles or 20 minutes

I laughed through this whole episode! Great episode!

Unfortunately many have found the Brethren have been leading them completely up the wrong road, and are really ticked off when they find out the truth about mormonism’s lies. You cannot get back those precious years spent wandering up schitt creek…😡

The real lesson is that that when you are one of the lords anointed, you are never wrong.

Bravo! Great analysis RFM.

I sure love and appreciate you..!

I went down the LDS road for 40 years. It was definitely the wrong road! At least I left it! I am authentic now.

Great points, RFM. For a while I thought you were not going to mention the "don't jump ship" part. That's what was glaringly manipulating message to me. The road seems wrong but stay in the church. Follow the Brethren and pay, pray and obey.

Very well said RFM...Thank you.

Thank you for uploading this to RU-vid. This is one of my favorite podcast episodes, and I just relistened again. This story is just one example of how revelation from God is a manmade concept.

Spot on!

And loved this episode! ❤️❤️❤️

RFM you made me laugh out loud!

Perfectly analyzed 🤙🏽. Aloha 🌺

A friend of mine who was and is faithful was guided through revelation and church leadership to marry a seal herself to a member who was a closeted homosexual. Four years later they filed for divorce. What a prankster god is for putting her through that. What father wants that for their daughter?

One more thought… if it’s important to god that we sometimes go down wrong roads in order to not doubt the correct road then why is everyone so fearful of “sin”? Loki has nothing on god as far as being a trickster. Lol. You just keep giving the excellent content. Thanks!

The mental and emotional gymnastics one is required to perform in order to remain a Mormon are amazing. My mind felt like it was being twisted and turned like a pretzel just listening to Holland's "logic".

But seriously… by Elder Holland’s logic, the surgery I prayed about and felt was correct for my daughter to have and the fact that God didn’t alert me to know that this doctor was pushing an unnecessary surgery, a surgery that has led to her have multiple other corrective surgeries and is now handicapped from it, was god leading us down the wrong road so we could know it was the wrong road… either that or god made me an instrument in His hands of bringing a lifelong trial upon my daughter so she could learn some kind of lessons and eventually help other people because of what she has learned through her medical issues. A series of surgeries that started at age 12 and continues to this day at age 26. She is just 4 weeks past what we hope is the last surgery for 10 years or 🤞 forever but who knows. People have tried to tell me how strong my daughter is and how much her experience has taught her things that she can pass on to help other people. All of that is true about her, but when we think of it in terms of God prompted me to make the decision to cause her to have to be strong in this particular way, it make God seem really awful and makes me feel used in a really icky way.

... and it was a 50/50 binary. What if the scenario was one where multiple paths were available? They take the short, obviously wrong road then get back to the original point and have another 3 options to decide between. Are you going to pray again and hope for the best? What if the next answer is another wrong road? Do you try a third time?... when does it start to feel like guessing randomly? ... at what point do you acknowledge that you are using bias to treat a collection of failures as a success?

The road story left me totally confused. so we do not follow “the feeling” but ignore it?

This essay reveals so much about the fallible people who never admit they are fallible. In Mormonism, when fallible people are called "apostles" Mormons believe they are representing an infallible God. Just this pattern repeated over, and over and over again is called Mormonism. It's such a mess.

“The revelation was the friends we made along the way” -elder holland probably

Honestly it would be best if the leaders admitted they're more just placeholder prophets than actual prophets. But then they'd get rid of the main reason people join and stay in the church

Will someone say “common sense” 🤪! Aloha 🌺

This story would be meaningful if the answer to their prayers was, "go down the road on the left because I want to show you it is a dead end". Since that wasn't the answer to their prayers, this story is just another dumb non-miraculous Mormon story. The bar for spiritual and miraculous Mormon stories is lying on the ground.

I don’t think anybody is as honest, genuine and sincere as Elder Holland. I stumbled upon this channel recently and I have been watching a lot of the videos. I definitely have some questions now and I need to find answers. I’d say over half of these issues I’ve never heard of so I’m slightly skeptical but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little concerned. So far I’ve been reading articles from FAIR Mormon but if anyone has other helpful sources that show the issues with facts I’d appreciate it!

The Mormon system as a system, is utterly bad, as history has shown. The truth is that Mormonism is a combination, or rather a conglomeration, of the literalism of Campbellism, the materialism of Fetishism, the sensualism of the Phallic worship, or Venus worship, the polygamy of Mohammedanism, the polytheism of Grecian Mythology, the theocracy of Judaism, the priestcraft of Catholicism, the despotism of Jesuitism, the self-righteousness of Pharisaism, the transmigration of souls of Buddhism, the cruelty of the worship of Juggernaut, the superstition of Confucianism, the degradation of women of heathenism, the mystic rites of Masonry, the hypnotism of mesmerism, the fanaticism of Dervishism, the salvation by works of Socinianism, the sacerdotalism of High Church Episcopalianism, and the political organization of Tammany Hall. In short, it has borrowed the worst features of all religions, and all creeds, and woven them into a conglomerate but compact mass of incongruous absurdities. It was born in the womb of imposture, nursed in the lap of fraud, rocked in the cradle of deception, clothed in the garments of superstition, fed on the milk of ignorance, and fattened on the strong meat of sensualism, despotism, fanaticism, crime, bloodshed and rebellion. The whole system is a deification of lust, a glorification of sensualism, religious adultery, ecclesiastical prostitution, earthy, sensual, devilish. It is the Upas tree of our civilization, the octopus of our political life, a travesty on the name of religion, a foul blot on the escutcheon of Christianity, a "hideous she monster," as its name implies. It is un-Christian, un-American, a colossal fraud, a mammoth sham, a gigantic humbug, a huge farce, which would be comical if it were not so tragical in its results. It is nothing short of a shame and disgrace and an insult to any Christian community that it should rear its slimy head in that community. There are four things which hold it together, ignorance, superstition, sensualism and despotism. But before the light of advancing civilization and growing intelligence these are receding, and one of two things is certain: Either Mormonism must change materially, or it is doomed to exposed humiliation. It is changing. It has changed considerably since the railroad and the telegraph came to Utah and brought the Mormon people into contact with the outside world, thus showing them the falsity of many things they had been taught. This contact has served largely to drive away the clouds of ignorance and superstition and to loosen the chains of sensualism and despotism with which they had been bound. But not all the clouds and not all the chains are gone. Many are still there. Its principles still remain. The question comes, Will Mormonism change sufficiently to save it from self-destruction? Can it, in consistency with its essential principles? Is there enough of the salt of Christian truth to act as an antiseptic. May the historic record shine on through the advent of the internet for all LDS captive to grasp. Mormonism is doomed to exposure and exodus. May the LDS vacuum be filled by the love of Jesus Christ, and the counterfeit jesus of LDS be vanquished.

He’s no DoDo!!! LOL

Holland thinks god cares about Holland's certainty....

So your idea is that Elder Holland and his son had no right to know that one road dead ended and the other went to the place they wanted to go. Or you want to believe that they should have been punished for going down the road that did not go where they were trying to go. God revealed to Elder Holland and his son that one road dead ended, and the other went to their destination. What is the problem? I do not really see what you are complaining about. Maybe you should go to Elder Holland and his son and tell them that you do not think they have been not been punished enough for making a wrong decision. Apostles are called to be special witnesses of Christ. I hear them testify of Christ every time they give a talk. What Elder Holland is saying in this talk is that even if you do not perfectly understand what is revealed to you, you can have perfect faith in Jesus Christ because he can direct your path for good. Your problem is that you do not have faith in Jesus Christ.

I think he should have kept this story to himself. In telling it, he's saying that if God had showed them the correct, they wouldn't have faith enough to go forward, they would be "uneasy", and tempted to go back. What? That's against everything they teach about faith. God speaks, you obey and don't question. So if he had gotten a revelation to go the right path, he should have held to the iron rod and not even think of going back... Eliminating 20 minutes of precious day light. It's like they needed to be sure if the right path, so they could have confidence. No sir, the lord was not teaching you a lesson. That makes no sense. You should have gotten the correct answer and go forward with faith. The story only makes sense if, at the end, the moral was that they did not have enough faith, so God had to make them certain. That would have been a lesson. He would have proven himself a normal person that needs to improve. But no... Only the members need lessons on having more faith... Terrible story, shows that he thinks himself above others. But that's not new.

Has there ever been a generation that wasn’t overly critical of Gods Watchmen? I was given revelation as a missionary as well as the other Elder I served with to tract a certain street. We went there and got kicked out of the neighbourhood we doubted just like you until a lady of Christs church in desperate need drove by and saw us which was an answer to her prayers. The lord works in mysterious ways. The church was inspired to do a home centred church before covid even hit. I would think that’s a pretty recent example of revelation wether it’s up to your standards or not I doubt God cares.

Holland is a Rosicrucian and kabbalistic alchemist. Watch his video teaching on the six pointed double triangle.

E. Holland and Matt each testifiedof joint revelation. If they had both stated Holland should have simply asked Matt "which way " followed tMatts direction. Sad Holland's arrogance plays out such a flaw overall.. teaching his son to do so.

I am at a complete loss as to how you have critically and objectively examined Mormonism's version of it's foundation and it's leaders leadership inspiration, and yet still claim membership in this institution!!! How in the world are you able to reconcile this cognitive- dissonance??

The one difference between this analysis is one person seeks to follow Christ and the other doesn’t lol 😂