Streamed September 26, 2017 on / sajam Sajam discusses the legitimacy of some of the generally accepted/tolerated ideas about skill gap in the Street Fighter IV era.
It's pretty clear in retrospect that Snake was talking purely about the American FGC because he clearly didn't know shit about Japanese GG or BB or Korean Tekken, for example.
If csgo pros could go pro in fortnite or league of legends they would. They would earn more than 3 times the amount of money they make playing Csgo. But they either don’t like the game or suck at it, so they can’t go pro in it.
@Nick Karras aka, not make as much money as real pros. also a cs pro is probably too far behind the curve to go anywhere meaningful in a game that is more than a few years old, lol is ~13 years old and fortnite is roughly 3 or 4. pros in those respective games have been playing for a long time and its unlikely a cs pro can just pick up a new genres and compete at that level in less than a few years, if they even could catch up ever is also a reasonable question.
He is talking about skill gap at the very top, not the average. So I kinda agree with him, because it makes sense statistically. Assuming that SF4 was the most popular fighting game at the time. Let's say we have a tournament of 1024 people with a big prize vs tournament of 32 people with a small prize. Who do you think is more likely to be a better FG player? I think the winner of the first tournament. But for the average skill level it will largely depend on how complex the game itself is.
Most people weren't offended because most people didn't take him seriously. It was pretty self evident off the bat that if he actually believed what he said, then he'd never properly participated in other parts of the FGC and seriously played other games like Virtua Fighter, Marvel, Tekken and so on all of which were not only long runing series, but had extremely long running, historic competitive scenes. You pretty much expect a kid that plays games from one series to have tunnel vision and a lack of comprehension of what goes on in other games. It's not something to get upset about because it's a kid's misinformed opinion. It's something to challenge, sure, but to elicit any kind of emotional response beyond "pfft," you'd have to first assign some kind of intellectual authority to the person speaking the words.
That's ridiculous, he's a top player so it would be rude to just dismiss his comments. also you say "it's something to challenge" then immediately contradict yourself by saying people shouldn't respond with criticism.
The funniest thing about that Snake Eyes video and his comments is how Kazunoko, a Guilty Gear legend and someone who just started playing USFIV on that same year, won that years Capcom Cup (which was also the last sfiv capcom cup). I found that hilarious at the time, and still find it pretty funny. The guy literally picked the game up on that year, qualified to Capcom Cup, and won it. So much for Snake Eyes comments and the general attitude of sfiv players
While that is not necessarily true, the case of Fuudo, a Virtua Fighter player, picking SF4 on 2011 as his side game and winning SF4 evo is pretty much a case of what you are describing lol.
Here is the thing though Sajam. He never said that SF4 was a harder game. He was referring to the amount off competition pushes players to evolve and improve/sharpen their skills.
Kaptain Kenneth I agree with you. he was talking about the level of skill that the people were playing at not about the game being the most difficult among other games. More like where the people took the skill level with this game and how the competition was revolving that type of skill in the SF 4 universe compared to other fighting games.
Kaptain Kenneth Maybe, but he uses the words "I feel like top players at SF4 are so much better than any other fighting game" Even if he meant the competition drives players to be strong, that's fair enough, but other fighting games have the same drive. The player base is smaller yes, but it's a pretty wild statement either way
I think it's combination of SFV being mechanically shallower than SF4, and people being more aware of other fighters nowadays. Tekken was barely known prior to 7, and GG rose in popularity at Xrd which came late in SF4's lifespan, so for the majority of the time SF4 was the main game people payed attention to.
But the fact that SF4 had the biggest playerbase back then meant that there was a lot more notable competition compared to the other games. In its final year it was hard to pin down who was the best because everyone seemed to take games off of everyone at the highest level. Not saying its true but the argument that sf4 players were better in terms of how much they had to know about the game and practice be at the highest level does hold some weight. Although at that time a lot of the other games did not get as much shine as they do now but It seemed like there was a pretty consistent top tier of players and then the rest. The Top player drop off is arguably not as severe in SF4 at the time.
I'm a former SC2 semi-pro, i lived in korea for a while working in eSports. There's a VERY real phenomenon where the 'difficulty' of a game rises when a lot of people dedicate themselves to being good at it. Even if the game's mechanics are relatively simple, the think-tank that is a mass amount of people all pushing eachother to become better will raise the skill of players at the top. Imagine if you had the most mechanically demanding game in the world, but only 1 person played it. Then it doesn't matter how hard the game is, being the best is very easy. Apply that logic the other way. How 'hard' the game is almost doesn't matter, the more people playing the game, the harder it will be to be the best. And USF4 was undeniably the most popular game by far. love you, buddy
I'd love to see any top player in SF4 or SF5 pick up KOF13 and try to pull off full Ash Sans-Culotte combos in a tournament. I picked up KOF13 pretty early after it came out and loved its complexity and just how high the skill ceiling was, but I (as a casual player) rarely got to see anyone "broaden my horizons" so to speak on who was good or what potential they had. Everyone picked the 3 DLC characters because they had invincible DPs, fireballs, and easy cancels to good damage, and that mostly worked at a tournament level, and I'm not sure if it's because the game really was too difficult, or if too few of the best players actually bothered to try out other characters (MadKOF showing how good Duo Lon really was on his way to winning EVO 2012 was one example). Probably hurts that it got no support because of SNKs problems, and thus no balance patches. I loved watching Persona's combo videos because they showed what the potential was for many characters, but I never saw it in tournaments. There certainly was a wiiiiiiiiiide gap between what was possible and what level the top players were at, but that doesn't mean SF players would do any better.
Yeah i LOVED high level KOF13 but i was disappointed you saw the same characters over and over. I also agree about how hard it is. I learned SF4&5 and MK9&X pretty easy but i could never get that good at KOF13 because it was so difficult but i still love it.
The only way I can reconcile what Snake Eyes said...is by recognizing the broad player base in the competitive scene. SF4 (and Street Fighter in general) attracted a lot of "fighting game" players: • Fuudo -- Virtual Fighter • Go1 -- Melty Blood, Guilty Gear • Xiao Hai -- King of Fighters • Sonic Fox -- Mortal Kombat I think this is the case because: 1) Street Fighter is classic with an impressive legacy, and 2) it's not a niche game, so the barrier to entry is typically low. So yeah...the quality of players in the SF competitive scene are high; but the percentage of competitors capable of top tier gameplay is low, and the mechanics of the game keeps the perceived skill gap relatively close. Which is why Daigo will occasionally lose to a random person online, and JDCR would never lose to a "no name". In my opinion, Tekken is a way more complicated game. The depth of its mechanics makes the skill ceiling extremely high...which is why you don't see as many well known Tekken players picking up SF as a side game (because it's less interesting), and why you don't see any well known SF players picking up Tekken as a side game (because the learning curve is super low).
As a fighting game newbie, I always liked Street Fighter because it felt, for the most part, so much more straightforward and easy to understand than other fighting games. I only played P4A because I was a big Persona fan, and I got bodied because I didn't understand so much. In Street Fighter, if I can fireball and DP I'll do much better at lower levels than I did in Persona.
The one thing I can say in 2023 now we had SF6 for a few months, is that because so many people are playing I was finally able to learn, understand and apply progressively and I just got better and understand things better now, even in other games. The problem when you play other games, the legacy skills and volume of players can sometimes result in an awefull experience. For an example, I loved kof 14 and played offline alone for years, but online my win rate was 7%!!! It was simply no contest all those online were leagues above me. You need to progressive resistance from people around your skill level to really drive the point home mentally and execution wise.
The game with a bigger & better maintained community(e.g frequent events ) in a particular country will have more competition. More competition drives players to be better. The skill level of players of that particular game go up. They're also more likely to have the opportunity to get international players visit their country, which can help the local players grow better.
You don't need a lot of player to drive your personal skill up. It only takes 2 players to play the game, and you just need opponent who is dedicated to improve. It was empirically proven by Alpha Zero AI that played only against itself and never even saw matches of other players. By playing against itself it became so good that it could win against the best Go players in the world the first time it encountered them.
Looking back on it now it's makes me feel like street fighter is starting to wane a little. SFV will always have a playerbase larger than all the others. Now it's just a question how many of those players ALSO play something else on the side?
it’s kinda a strange thing to say at any time, whether now or before, as many competitive game people grew up with many kinds of games (Starcraft, Halo, etc.)... I mean who would really question the minds of early pros of Starcraft matches?...but on to the real problem with competitive games: it’s difficult to find a game where sheer fighting game skill (reading and adapting to the opponents habits as opposed to technical execution, memory [of silly game animations / data], muscle memory, pre-planned strategies, etc.) is the central focus. SFIV comes close by throwing players on an equal and limited technical input plane, focusing on those core fighting game skills, all the while still remaining to be quick enough. It being accessible and having a sane visual appearance are bonuses. You don’t really get to see that core fighting game action in more complex (sc) or faster (unlimited hand-eye coordination; think cs) or more technically-demanding games (ssbm) until two people have really mastered the games...which sucks as very few do, and, resultingly, people waste time on things other than fighting. With this logic, I’d choose SFIV pros over many other fighting game pros, Halo pros over other first person shooter pros, CoH pros over other real time strategy game pros. I’d say they’re the better chess players, the ones with good “mind games”. ...and, with hope, maybe that’s what SnakeEyez really meant but couldn’t express.
Ever game has its best players or top players, each one pushing the other to get better. It’s better to play other games & actually understand it more than a casual/normal level that’s why now I like that we have top players from Sf play Marvel or injustice 2 or Tekken, etc.
So I will say this Sajam At the time, yes people would have agreed with SnakeEyez. USF4 and SF4 in general was a six year old game in 2015. SIX. So you had people that had been playing competitive SF4 for SIX years at the time. So you better damn well believe they were probably some of the best fighting game players out there. Now? SFV, Tekken, GGXrd, KI, MKX, Injustice, are all only a couple of years old at most. So if you've been playing any one or two of these games competitively since launch, you're probably one of the best in the world at that game. There are hardened veterans of a specific game franchise for sure, but in terms of the game and the version of that game, all the competitive players started all at once more or less. So the perceived difficulty is much lower than SF4. Jumping into any one of those games (depending on which) isn't all that hard. That's my opinion.
It's an interesting argument, but the difference between Street Fighter and many other series is that, for example, SF4 is an extremely drastic departure from SF3 to the point where nothing beyond basic skills such as the muscle memory for special move execution, would carry over. Compared to that, if I played Tekken 5, or Virtua Fighter 4, I can pick up the sequels and be competitive - obviously the nuances that make for serious competitive play would be learned further on, but the games don't change as much from version to version as Street Fighter does. So to say that the level of competition in, say, Tekken Tag 2 (or Tekken 7 at the point in time at which Snake Eyez is speaking) is somehow lesser than that in USF4 (A game which itself is almost as different from Arcade Edition as Tekken 7 is from Tekken 6), can't hinge on the idea that one or the other has been around longer. I mean take even Smash Melee, which has probably the most mature (in a competitive sense) scene out of any game still played today. I like SE just fine, he's a nice guy, but kid doesn't know what he's talking about. Either that or he's just stroking the sinking egos of the two quickly degrading Street Fighter veterans that are interviewing him
Saad Khalid It also has to do with the climate of the FGC at the time. Honestly, even though there were a lot of other fighting games out during 2015, there weren't NEARLY as many competitive players in tournaments like EVO or even SCR or Texas Showdown. Now there's a much bigger variety and much more competitive players in each game. Also I did say that there are veterans from different Street Fighters that play SFV and that played every version of SF4. Its not like there aren't any obvious gameplay similarities between sequels of fighting games. That much is clear. But was anybody play competitive 3rd Strike at EVO 2015? Is ANYBODY playing competitive 3rd Strike? Even if all the old 3rd Strike legends went back to play it competitively, it would still take a while to relearn all the nuances of SF3. My point is, SE was "right" at the time because the fighting game genre and the FGC was still in its rebuilding stage at the time. Yes, thousands of people would watch all the big tournaments and yes, there were a bunch of fighting games out there at the time, but the competitive scene was so densely occupied by SF4. And now the competitive scene has spread out to other fighting games. I mean for Christ sake DBFZ is about to be the biggest anime fighting game ever made when its drops in February.
I suppose that's a fair enough way to look at it but the argument still neglects competitive scenes that might not have been as large as SF4 at the time, but were just as densely packed with legendary players - take MVC3 or Smash Melee - the former had a large crossover audience shared with Street Fighter and the the latter has been going since 2001. The ancillary communities around other fighting games might be smaller but I don't think anyone would argue that JWong and Yipes' Marvel achievements are somehow lesser than Momochi's or Daigo's because the competitive scene around the game is smaller. The Street Fighter community might have more players thrown at it, but you still get the same talent dominating the top level competition. Where you've got Hungrybox, Leffen, Armada and Mango, you've got Daigo, Momochi, Infiltration and Tokido. I think my biggest gripe with Snake Eyez' statement is that it lacks any nuance. He might have gotten away with saying that the SF competitive scene is a little more vital and alive because it has more players, and then go on to explain why that makes a difference. But the way his comment actually came out was just hyperbolic, silly and largely untrue.
Saad Khalid And that's my point, the FGC was talked about so generally just few years ago. And Snake Eyez's (Snake Eyez'?) comment is no exception to that generalization. We as a community nowadays see fighting games differently. So once again, *at* *the* *time*, SE was right. But now, his comments would be seen as asinine.
3 years later and I think Tekken is insane. I don't think I can pick up that game. Anyone who can even just move well in Tekken will most likely be a better player than me in every other game we play.
SFVs bad launch vented a lot of players to competing scenes that were just starting to get rolling. Players like sonicfox are also better now than they were before. SF had legacy. It's competitors had been around forever. But the other scenes are growing up and they're all getting that accrued experience you get over a lifetime. At it's time SFIV was a big fish in a tiny pond. But that's not the case anymore.
I think his comment was misinterpreted. The skill gap amongst the top tier players to upper tier players and lower within sf4 is wider than it is in other games. However, the game has been out forever with multiple version and a large player base.
I feel like he's saying more that, street fighter 4 skill ceiling relative to itself is higher than other games had at the time, not that the potential skill ceiling of the game is strictly higher than others but players at the time were more motivated to push to that level than other fighting game players were in other games, most likely due to the size and popularity of the game gave incentive to do so
TO truly get this number i feel like you'd have to get a measure of average meaningful decisions made per sec and then see the "Top Players" in each game and how many successful decisions they make over the course of a match or given period of time but there are so many different variables that can throw that number off, its kinda a ridiculous conversation to start in the first place unless you really wanna do a lot of truly unnecessary homework. Also even if you do determining what's a "Good" Decision from a "Bad" one isn't always the easiest in games where mix-ups are happening every other moment.
I mean, smash bros melee at the time was at a crazy high point. The players were at a super high level, and armada was starting his reign. The only reason i can see someone making a statement like "our game is at a higher level" is lack of exposure.
Melee's "depth" is highly overrated. Most of its tech is movement based and there arent enough gameplay mechanics that help one play neutral Hitboxes in Melee are absurdly huge so there isnt nearly as much precision required to land hits as later Smash titles Defensive options are nonexistent. Edgeguarding in later Smash games take significantly more skill since the disadvantaged player has many more defensive and reversal options so the advantaged player has to actually think As far as Smash games go, Ultimate is by the deepest. Thats why Melee players arent very succesful in other Smash games with the exception of very few
@@jdrmanmusiqking this is absolutely wild lmao. melee’s tech being movement based is exactly what makes it deeper because the core of a platform fighter *is* movement. if you take away the movement tech you vastly reduce the game’s depth because platform fighters don’t have the highly involved close-range interactions or combo dynamics of other 2D fighters. ultimate has none of melee’s movement tech which vastly reduces the number of potential interactions and therefore vastly reduces the depth of every part of the game. just because ultimate’s interactions take longer (because there isn’t hitstun for shit and you get back to the ledge basically for free with almost every character) doesn’t mean that they’re deeper. it just means that they’re longer. i play both games competitively and there is no conceivable way you could come away thinking ultimate is deeper unless you’ve mistaken the size of the matchup chart for depth
IF we were to only look at the Capcom pro tour, what Snake Eyez said would seem to be true. You only have to take a look at the Japanese Blazblue/Guilty Gear community to see that's FAR from the truth. The competition in those games and what's required to be a standout player makes SF look like tic tac toe. It's only going to be more apparent once Evo Japan becomes a mainstay event and Arcsys sets up their new American branch. Also, Dragon Ball Fighterz is coming in January and will have worldwide appeal. The potential for that game is massive. Sajam, you should do another round on this topic. It's very interesting. Bring in some people from different communities.
But that's what he was saying, no? I see plenty of comments about which games are technically demanding and whatnot, which kinda confuses me... I mean, as far as I can see Snakeyez never went into those, he talked about level of competition regarding the skill of players.
Now players like to say how low the skill ceiling is on sfv. Maybe thats why they would be more open to the idea that other games can match their games skill level
Street Fighter 4 was kind of the WoW of fighting games. A classic franchise broke into a much broader playerbase than it's genre ever had and would eventually allow for a total revolution of the genre. Sure, it's a mixed thing, mmos now always are trying to be more accessible, and the accessibility problem is always something that comes up in fighting games, but I don't think we have GGXRD and UNIST in the states without SF4 showing people that you don't need to have a doctorate in applied trigonometry to learn and have fun with classic and anime fighting games.
With all respect to SnakeEyez for his SF achievement, I guess this statement of his is part of the stuff that contributes to a part of what's negative in the FGC currently i.e the title bashing and segregation between different fighting games. Anyone with the balls to say something like that needs to put their skills where their mouth is and go get top8 in a major or whatever their personal achievement equivalent is for multiple fighting games, and even so, that still doesn't say anything about comparing skill between different fighting games other then oh, one dude can play multiple games competently yay. ..wonder though if SnakeEyez still stands by what he says here years later.
Really shows the flaws in his mindset in a couple sentences. To me, at lesst. This shows either complete ignorance in the other games, or it shows that he can watch another game's top players, and not recgonize skill from gameplay. This feels like a lack of objective thinking, and more like a bias fueled by playerbase numbers. We've come a long way lmfao
Street fighter players have always been in their own bubble. Some of the top SF4 players were marvel players . Ryan Hart was a top tekken player that SF4 players didn’t even know about. If you have been around longer than 2009, it’s clear 3rd strike , guilty gear, tekken, cvs2 took more skill. Every Chun Li vs Boxer Match in SF4 looks the same, regardless of player level .
What Snake Eyes said is true, the quality and quantity of competitors who played SF4 and its iterations was insane. Even SFV level of competition is th highest. For example, Take evo 2017 for SFV, I think there was more than 100 top players that could win the tournament and during top 64 it was a massacre. It isn't about which game is the hardest to play, it's about the number of high level players that play a game.
Im pretty sure hes referring to the competition level, SF4 had a massive player base especially compared to the other games and had been around for a long time that the skill in competition was insane
If you play anything other than SF you know his comments are wrong. GG, Tekken, VF, KoF XIII, and Blazeblue all have higher skill ceilings and deeper mechanics.
SomeBlackDude yeah dude if he just opens his mind then he'll see that, KOF XIII is a fucking great game. Even Chaos Code when learn becomes a fucking awesome fighting game you know.
It’s a proven concept that competition pushes people to do better. It pushes companies to do better in businesses because they do not want to risk falling off. Street Fighter’s playerbase and Capcom’s commitment to the eSports scene pushes players to be better at their game. Higher pressure to do so compared to other games, which is likely what SnakeEyez meant here. I agree with some other comments here that the degree of competition is what makes these players better. I believe the skill ceiling comes in the form of how they’re reading their opponent rather than execution. The game becomes harder because of the people, not because of the game.
I’m still mad about the stupidity that came out of Lupe Fiasco’s mouth around that same time. He ended up saying pretty much the exact same shit snake eyes said except on Twitter. It was made worse by him dissing Mortal Kombat, a game a lot of players would say is on the same level, if not harder, than Street Fighter. And that’s without taking into account anime style games like Guilty gear and tag fighters which blow street fighter out of the water with difficulty. He’s still one of my favorite rappers but I’ll never get over that/
Sajam you're missing the point. SF4 was by far the biggest FG and the amount of competition worldwide was ridiculous. All these talented players helped push the meta forward and this happened over a very long time because how long of a lifespan SF4 had. I feel that Tekken 7 might even have a higher skill ceiling than SF4, but the lack of real competition makes the game meta undeveloped at the highest level. Will this change? Over time maybe, but due to the lack of real competition it's not happening in a rapid way. For Tekken there's pretty much only real competition in South Korea and that's not a good thing, it's not Starcraft Broodwar we are talking about here it's Tekken. SFV has the player base but the skill ceiling is too low and the game is too watered down to reach these kind of levels. So what does it take? 1. The game must have a healthy amount of competition in order to push things forward, like SF4 and even SFV. I feel like this is where Tekken 7 falls short. 2. The game itself needs to have a high enough skill ceiling, like SF4 and Tekken 7 but this is what SFV lacks. It's sad but true. So all in all he's not wrong, he's right. If there was other games, that both had the required 1 and 2 rules I just wrote, at SF4 peak level then I too would have gotten offended but that's not reality my friend.
Lol, and then a guilty gear player picks up the game and wins capcom cup, a capcom cup where, by the way, snake eyes was at... and momochi and daigo and you name it :P.
In my country Indonesia, the Tekken community is the larger & better maintained one(e.g more events) since at least the *Tekken 4 days* . More players, fierce competition. I'm positive this is also true in several other countries, but people have only begun to see that Tekken is alive & strong *outside of Japan/Korea* in recent times. Especially in Tekken 7 days because of the pro circuit(Tekken World Tour), and it brings plenty more exposure to these great talents. This may eventually lead to team sponsorship, more opportunities to compete outside of their countries etc. They become better by going to more tournaments, the skill level increases. I wish the same growth occurred for different player base as well, so they could see the benefits.
whatever has the most competition and or the most players will produce the best players, incontrovertible. smart people werent mad because they knew this. everybody else wasnt mad because this is the game with the most players and the most competition, ironically. you were mad because you were in an instant were thinking tribally.
Meanwhile infiltration wrecks the SF community, while tekken is dominated by a basically a community of infiltrations..... In other words in reality the hardest fgc game is the one Koreans are most attached to, in other words tekken, while other games it's wherever Koreans are as well, starcraft, lol or DotA or whatever the fuck, pretty much most games, the only exceptions being where the game doesn't become popular in Korea. It's not even that Koreans are that good or smart, it's just their communities put in work into getting good that raises all of their skill, while the language barrier stops that info from spreading, and other countries don't necessarily have that work being put in, literally their meta just evolves faster etc. But those are the hardest games, they take the most time and effort to beat the best players on the planet(starcraft 1 and 2 have Korean top pros that have dominated for 20+ years) try beating jaedong or flash or bisu in starcraft 1 after the same amount of time it takes someone to beat up infiltration, I guarantee those Korean guys would just wreck literally any American player that ever steps in their path, just period, so in my eyes those are the hardest games because the competition level is comparatively inhuman.
It's funny seeing all the comments about SF4 being an old game and habing so much competion cause I'm a smasher. That game ain't old haha... Melee is much older and faster and it's meta has evolved incredibly over more than a decade.
GG xrd hard to pick up & play ..now mkx easy to pick up & get ok w practice i didn't any fighting gms until SFv ..thn i tried GG demo thn MKx & i got way better @ MKx thn either SFv or GG..now I'm playin MvCi i love but its harder to combo thn MKx so far #GdTopicSajam
Umm...he probably meant that at that time SF4 is more figured out than other games, the potential is more realized at said time. I remember when The Last Blade 2 was the hot game, every high level match was so passive because initiative play is punished by that game's design. However after a long time, now The Last Blade 2 high level play is so damn aggressive because people figured out that some offense is too good for people to react to and capitalize on a whiff punish or parry.
Ima be real. I have friends who play tekken who don’t really take the game that seriously as far as constant practice or focus. And they go to a major and all of them go some 2 and 2 or 3 and 2. I couldn’t believe it. How the hell did it workout that all of them could get the lowest of the low scrubs for their first matches. But then I realized it’s just the competition difference. These same players put the same lackadaisical effort into playing street fighter 5 also and they have absolutely 0 Chance, not even a round, against me or some of my other friends, who take Streetfighter VERY seriously and put an immense amount of effort into the game. But we go 2 and 2 or 3 and 2 in pools at majors. So to me what snake eyes said applies to SF5 also
I'm of the mind that no one took it seriously except for people that started and only played SF4. Any person that came from GG or VF would have laughed their asses off.
no one talking about melee? I know it's not a conventional fighting game, but the fact alone that people have been practicing the same exact game with no balance patches or updates for so long, pushing the limits of what the game can do and developing the meta for 18 fucking years has to put it in the conversation. as far as 2D fighters go though, I'm torn between sf iv and GGxrd
I've had to give up all of my other fighting games (except MvsCI which actually seems to *help* SFV play and vice versa.) so that I could focus on getting better at SFV, I've always played "couch tournaments" and there was never really much of a pay off for skill so it's mostly been for fun. I did wonder though why all the other games I played seemed easier. I mean it was obvious with 3-d fighting games which is why I stopped playing them even before SFV, and for myself I think it's just that there is more agency with a Street Fighter game. It's just the Mathematics of it. A six button fighter gives you 1/3 more basic options and by extension a ton of extended tactics to add as well. It's just a lot more to think about, by the numbers, than a 4 button fighter. More options and permutations of those options. That's just me though and I have a tendency to break everything into Mathematics. It makes sense to me since everything has it's origin there. Yes, you can apply Science to Street Fighter. =)
ELITISM XD I REMEMBER WATCHING THAT THINKING, "WHAT'S HE TAKING ABOUT? LOL". YH, THE TOP SF4 PLAYERS ARE SO MUCH BETTER.......AT SF4! LOL. JOKER! XD =)
Sf4 hard work, great recompense, sfv, brainless stuff high recompense, that's my experience, you want to see that to be proven true? Play sfv one month, then try to comeback to 4...
