In this video slugfest we test the limits of the Blue point screw extractors. I find a worthy opponent in a old exhaust manifold from a Toyota MR-2. Watch me use all the screw extractor tricks in the book to win.
Hey Tom, If my calculations are correct you just burned through about $200 in carbide end mills, a perfectly good brand new extractor stud, and half an afternoon of your valuable time on a junk yard scrap manifold all for a few hash comments on a tool review! I got to say, YOUR THE MAN! Looking forward to round two buddy! Thanks man, Ray
Amateurs believe that these things never happen to professionals. It is encouraging for us to see that sometimes even professionals struggle. :) Thanks for the video. Looking forward to see round 2. Mehmet
Hi Mehmet, You are correct. The struggle is part of the fun sometimes. Having to use all your tricks and superpowers is fun. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Hay Tom. After twisting wrenches for forty plus years I have decided there is no such thing as an "easy out" or "screw extractor" I've been using the method mentioned previously of welding a nut with a washer as a spacer between nut and the object, I have used this method on heavy equipment on bolts from one inch down to a quarter inch with 99% success. The theory is when you weld the nut on the heat from the welding heats the broken piece up which then expands, it cant expand sideways so it has to expand along its length then as it cools and shrinks it loosens just enough that you can screw it out. Some times it takes a couple of tries but most always works. Please keep the videos coming, I've learned more about machining from your and the other machinist videos in the last few months than I ever thought possible.
YIKES.....watching this was like reliving my past (and probably my future)....started to get sick to my stomach, headache, kicked the dog, yelled at the kids, phoned a friend to commiserate and then do what I always do in this situation, make a cocktail!!! Best of luck in part 2!!!!
Hey Tom, a big thumbs up for this one. It's validation for all of us who've lost the battle, but eventually won the war. Alway great to see how a professional approaches the problem. Merry Christmas!
As a mechanic, I don't even mess with extractors anymore. Sometimes they work for broken brass fittings, but I haven't found an extractor that won't break more often than not. What I usually end up doing is drilling through as big as possible with a drill making sure not to damage the threads. Then I get my little mini angle die grinder with an 1/8th inch arbor, and hog out the inside diameter of the broke bolt until the threads just barely show. Then you can peel the threads out one at a time. Run a tap through to clean the threads up and done. Broken extractors are more of a pain than using the die grinder.
I have a been a diesel tech for more than 10 years now so I've seen my fair share of broken exhaust manifold and turbo studs. These extractors works ok when you drill to biggest diameter possible. But to me the best technique I find is still the washer and nut technique. You weld the washer to remaining stud first then weld the nut to the washer. Works best when using extraction weld rods but something you don't have all the space to move so I use the MIG. Extraction rods work good when the studs are broken inside the hole, you mount your stud out of the hole with tacks. Repeated heat helps.
Tom, as an old car guy, I had to laugh so many times. Your vid is much better than the "it worked once" vids. More real world. Now, real world is it in the engine bay with all kinds of stuff in the way and you need to use a right-angle drill to get in there while standing on a crate leaning over in an awkward angle and cant see. For me, the big blue O/A wrench is the only way you'll get it out. "If it ain't glowin', it aint coming out." My choice is drilling up to the thread minor diameter then using a tap to clean the junk out. People complain about the cost to have someone do it. They don't know the pile of expensive carbide, cobalt and broken special tools you are left with. ;) Ok, I see and EDM machine added to your wish list. Keep up the great vids.
You forgot to add that it's a 37 degree F day, just cold enough to be extremely uncomfortable, but just warm enough for icy water to be dripping on you while you're under there working.
Victor Stanwick Here in GA its more likely 96 degrees with 100% humidity. Then trying to drill with sweat dripping into your eyes and glasses. ;) Oh, the stud will also never come loose unless you have slammed you hand against something sharp first. They want to see blood.
Don’t let it win ‘Mr. Wizard.’ I can hardly wait to turn the page on this-one. Real-life problems that do confound us all! As always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~
Couldn't help but grin from time to time. I've been on both ends of this type of situation. Thank you for sharing! It's good to see the thought process as well as the actual "fix". Best wishes, Tom Z
You're probably going to get a million suggestions about what to do next, so I will give you one or two more to consider. I work as a millwright and have run across my share of broken off bolts. I think there are two types of scenarios you run into. Bolts that have been sheared or otherwise broken off, but aren't necessarily so stuck in the hole and bolts that broke off as they were trying to be removed. The latter ones are the tough ones and that's what it looks like you have here. I haven't had much luck with 'easy outs', especially on the smaller bolts. I think when you pound them in you expand the bolt and it almost makes them tighter. The best luck I've had is with welding a nut on top of the broken bolt. The heat from the welding process is a big help here too I think. If the bolt or stud is recessed, then a good welder can build a post or else a pipe nipple or similar thing can be shoved in the hole and welded on. Anyways, just my thoughts, good luck.
Hi Etienne, Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think I could have got much weld on the stud as short as I cut it off. Maybe we will get another manifold and try some other methods. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
As a vehicle technician, this is a good representation of our struggle. I'm young and I still got much to learn, but my teacher told me that when bolts or nuts are stuck, heat them to a cherry red. It solved most, but not all, of my problems. Some times I had to drill and tap out the broken off bolts by hand. I thank you for this video. It's both entertaining and educational.
Hi Tom! I follow the Keiths and Adam (and you) almost daily. One quibble: There are "car guys" and then there are other "car guys". I'm one of the "other" car guys. I'm also a Mechanical Engineer and made straight "A" in Machine Shop when the instructor was a crusty old ex-Navy Machinist. A "real" car guy would have double nutted that stud, used Kroil (like you did, love that stuff), let it sit and warmed it up. I also build engines for myself and friends, and my Granddad was a Machinist for Lockheed (then Bell Aircraft) and built B29s. One time I found myself under a friend's Dodge van with a broken shift linkage. The outer threaded part of the 1-2 fork had broken off. I hand drilled the thing and tapped it (while laying on my back) and put a grade-8 bolt in. Then I realized the rain dripping off the van was freezing... BTW I don't claim to be a Machinist. Just a wannabe... I would give my left, um, eyebrow to have a shop... ;)
Hey Phil, It just goes to show I'm a phony car guy. I'll let you in on a secret. I don't even change my own oil. Pretty bad huh? Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
As a former car guy, when I purchased this extractor set 20 years ago my tool guy warned me about using these on blind holes. A tapered twist extractor can be removed if one sees the broken fastener wont budge by turning the other direction. When these break it makes for a real mess as you have found out.
Hey Eric, Desperate jobs require desperate ideas. I think the stud is something special. Its barely magnetic and fairly hard but not super hard. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
There is more suspense here than an episode of "24", I hope we don't have to wait a week for the next chapter. BTW, my wife can't believe I just watched a 33 minute screw extraction video, that is to be continued.
Kudos, Tom. Very few have he courage and self confidence to take on the unknown live on camera. That was frustrating, and the only point was to cater to viewers. Not fun, but very instructional for amateur mechanics like me. Thank you. Any of your fans who laughed are jerks. I really like that extraction system that has no taper on the extractor. I think I’ll get a set.
Those kinds of screw extractors always break anyway. Either the "splined shaft" breaks or you strip the "spline" right off the sucker. I've always had more luck hammering a Torx socket in.
Being a truck mechanic I have taken my share of broken exhaust studs drilling has always been my last thing I will do but if I drill I always use left hand drill bits as somethings the drill will catch and unscrew the broken bolt. My preferred method is extraction welding rod and a larger nut. As always great video Tom!
Well Tom I have been down that road, sometimes the manifold is cheeper to replace than the labour to extract the stud or bolt. Cat engines are some of the worst to get out, the studs taper at the end and they wedge them selves in the holes of the cylinder heads, havent had to change a head yet.
Hello Tom, Just watched the video but had to stop when the the extractor went 'ping', I was laughing so much! Reminded me of the first and ONLY time I used one of those LH screw extractors on my Honda bike exhaust stud. It went ping as well. These 'extractors' are the devils invention. I now use LH or RH carbide drill bits. That 'ping' of mine taught me a lesson I have never forgotten. Seasons wishes to you and followers. Geoff From UK, not VA
Thanks for creating this project for us viewers. I always admire a man who doesn't have enough problems that he is willing to make new ones strictly to learn from them! lol I think when that extractor snapped I would have gone for trying to weld a nut to it. Beyond that get your welders/cutting torch over there and put some heat in that thing! if you can't see it glow its not hot enough yet!! That manifold probably had 1500deg exhaust running through it for years lots of heat can only be your friend!
Holy mothering Christmas extraction. Tom has dug a hole, let's all comment with nothing but positive recommendations as to how to git out of this sucker Great stuff Tom, very enjoyable.... good luck
What I've found with any form of screw extraction, is that if the bolt broke, then the smaller diameter extractor probably will too. So I usually just jump straight to drilling and tapping it out to avoid having to drill out HSS. Good video on showing an average day in screw extracting. :)
Tom, I've been in your shoes several times while repairing aircraft stuff out on the ramp with cold, snow and a mean foreman on my back to get it done before the morning flight. Your bulldog tenacity lets me know the flight would have been on time! Cheers and Merry Christmas Gene
Thanks for the video Tom. I've been in the automotive industry for 30+ years and have snapped off my fair share of not so easy outs and no you didn't hurt my feelings at all. lol keep making your video's I love the hell out of them.
I enjoy all your videos, but this one made my day. When you were twisting on the extractor there at the end, I was hoping for a second SNAP, just to see a good candid reaction. Sick, I know. :) Brent
Hi Tom Loved the video, can't wait to see the finally. I recently bought a cheap made-in-china set of those extractors to try on my next foul up, and glad to see where there limits are. My usual method is to drill to the minor diameter and pick or tap out the remaining. I gratly enjoy your videos as they have opened up possibilities to methods of work and projects I never thought was possible.
90s toyota... seeing that stud extractor break sent a shiver in my spine...man that thing is a nightmare nothing sweeter than having a harder material stuck in the middle of the thing....brings alot of memories ,,,
Merry Christmas Tom! I was waiting to see that baby pop out, not like it was a dry birth! LOL You know I follow suit with needing to remove and bring into shop, mostly so all the chips, swarf and rust is guaranteed not to get where it's not suppose to go! We all want to give them the best job and that is how we do it, by mounting it in the machine or any of the shop tricks we can pull off in our shop environment. I'm glad to have taken the time to stop by and catch your video! ;{)-----
Hey Keith, I'm glad you caught this one. Its a real winner. There is a part two coming out soon. Watch me get my ass handed to me with wrapping paper. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Keith, no mechanic in his right mind would even start the job like that, without first blocking off the passages that can lead to disasters. We do carry a sense of where things belong and where they don't. I know I'm just a lowly mechanic, machinist, and I know you don't like mechanics, but hey, we do the best job we can, given the circumstances we work in. }[:)
I don't think I ever expressed that I didn't like mechanics, in my whole life, there have been a few that made me shake my head. I was a mechanic before the yards and an outside machinist for, four or five years before becoming an inside machinist. I have had to block off with hard flanges and coffer dams and plugs, red eyes etc. just personally feel that 100% debrief free is a greater possibility disassembled and on the machine, not that it is affordable and the demo that Tom is giving and the sharing of every possible trick in the book, or everybody book sometimes isn't going to keep things from going sour, but there is that better chance that any of the mechanics or machinist tricks would of worked the first time if the extra removal, put the part on the bench in front of performing their magic. ;{)-----
Re-writing an old Christmas song.... Laughing all the way!!! I don't miss working on cars.... Soon as I saw those Snap Off Not So Easy Outs I knew where this was going.... I was so proud of myself when I bought those... The Snap It Off in your Butt dealer hyped them as working every time... I found them to break every time...
Hi Graham, Thanks for the note and comment. The juice is cutting oil. Probably Kling light thread cutting oil or Relton rapid tap. I did a video called Toms .02 on oils and cutting fluids. I go into some detail in that video. Cheers, Tom
One of the best and most honest feeling vids on the youtube so far, I'm betting on you mr Wizard! Impressive that the donor got the first three studs out before giving up.. Seasons greetings btw..
This video's getting me frustrated and I'm just watching! Great comments too, as fun as the video. I was actually saying 'snap' right as the extractor snapped! Hate when that happens. Great videos, keep up the good work.
I learned early on in my decades of machine shop experiences that it was going to be a piece that was headed to the shop with the EDM. For $60 the broken off whatever would be out and I would be having a cup of coffee. Love your video's, thanks for sharing, and putting in all the effort. Very Merry Christmas to you. ELECTRIC DISCHARGE MACHINING (EDM) is the only fast and efficient way of removing broken tools like taps, drills, and fasteners. Most commonly EDM effectively removes broken bolts, broken drills, broken sparkplugs, broken ez outs, and broken taps.
Hey Tfp, The car guys would be howling. How can you get your EDM machine under the car with all that snow on the ground. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
I've just recently started enjoying your vids. One day I might just have to do a response out of my own shop... I think what you needed was a can of freeze-spray, found at your local electronics supplier. First you apply the heat, then you freeze the extractor and the remainder of the stuck bolt. This technique worked like a charm on a steel freeze plug (Marine = Brass) in the head of a seawater cooled engine (351 WIndsor). Whoever put that together was, well... I won't go there, but the extraction technique worked like a charm. I did use a 4' piece of 3/4" galvie pipe with a 1/2" socket extension welded to the middle of it as a wrench. The socket extension fit the I.D. of the plug perfectly, making stripping it nearly impossible... Of course the heads were still on the engine in the boat, making this a Mission Impossible sort of thing... sort'a like the mechanic under the car...
step4560 Hey Step, The only thing worse than laying in the mud under a car is swishing about in the bilge of a boat with stinky oily seawater soaking your clothes. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Hi Tom, having already a nut, could your impact pneumatic/electric wrench at a very low impact setting and after a long exposure start loosening it up?
Tom, After you hacksawed the stud off, would using a carbide masonry bit, instead of a "normal" twist drill, have made opening things up easier? Eli D.
Hey ELi, The point geometry of a masonry drill is not good for metal cutting. They are designed for percussive applications not shearing metal. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
oxtoolco Hey Tom, I'd try turning that extractor with a deep socket if you can, that box end really seems to be side loading it, kept waiting for it to snap again. A socket might be a little more forgiving, or if nothing else, contain the flying fragments if it breaks again! Good luck and Merry Christmas!
If there is a more demoralizing event in life than a broken bit in the hole, I don't know what it is. I admire your stamina. I have to admit that when you broke that bit I laughed my head off mostly because --been there done that. Great vid.
Hey Hank, I think they use some high performance alloy here to prevent creep at high temperatures. Not sure but it was pretty hard stuff. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Now that's a real test to the effectiveness of that set of extractors. I had to laugh when you broke off the tool, but felt a kinship afterward. Maybe torching the casting to red before twisting the wrench. HO HO HO!
The high tensile stud allows specs to be maintained at high temps and keep a tighter clamp force . Head gaskets on turbo or super charged vehicles also have the harder botls .
Great example of "The more you Chew the bigger it gets". I have had a few of those myself. Usually end up with the drill bit getting off center and eating everything but the bolt. Waiting for Part 2 so hurry up :D
Hey Wankel, Believe it or not I was having fun. I'm in my shop and I don't have to get this car running to go to work on Monday. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
just from the audio I knew I was NOT watching a car guy attack that "busted off" stud as my ears were not bleeding and or my headphones were not being melted off my head thanks for something fun to watch, Oh and no fire engines being called too
Ahh. I hate movies that end with a cliffhanger. Lol. Great video. Talk about putting the tool to the test. At first i was dissapointed when it broke. But after seeing how stubborn that stud is, im kinda impressed with that extractor.
Tom - You should have named this one the "Tom Torture test" lol. Great persistence man, Can't wait to see what happens in round 2. Thanks for all your great videos.
Tom Good to see you having a go with those wonderful extractors. Welcome again to my "Getter Out World" (notwithstanding the many you have taken out I'm sure). Lets step back into my classroom: One: most of the automotive studs are metric 10.9 or 12.9 MPA extra high tensile strength (similar to allen screws). Two: Always drill all the way through (as you did). Three: DONT drive the extractor in very far! go about 1D or so. If it works it will remove the stud, if it doesn't the extractor can be removed easily. Four: Use "freeze it" to shrink the stud. Five: DON'T wobble the drill. Six: DON'T wobble the spanner. Seven: Keep the spanner and the driver nut as close to the surface as possible. Eight: Drill to the maximum extractor diameter that you can. Nine: Exhaust studs can at times "weld themselves in" and become part of the parent metal (Caterpillar is a fine example because of the extreme heat they work at compared to many other brands) and generally the turbo is another area where we see that a lot. Ten: When the manifold is the problem I do all the work in the Mill, gives good control. Eleven: If the extractor turns in the stud after you have done all that, cut your losses, drill the stud out and fit a coil, don't waste your time. Twelve Cut/or grind the stud down to as close to the casting face as you can (reduce the amount of drilling depth required. I do one or two manifold holding studs on the blocks in situe on tractor trucks or cars or machines a week, leaning under the hood sometimes with mirrors and all sorts of other systems, at times up to 10 studs on one motor. Then your faced with the added problem of steady accurate drilling, arthritic wrists etc. Any chance to put the patient on the Mill has to take priority. About half the studs have to be drilled out completely, some come out with the lefty, and 30-40% with the extractors. Add to that in most cases there are too many peripherals that are strategically placed on the motors (aluminium air con pipes, fuel lines, sensors and their umbilical cords etc. that applying heat is not an option). Add to that as well, in lots of cases someone has "had a go" and left a broken tap or ezi out in the stud, and in most cases "off centre" or "skew" Yes Tom I have probably broken about 15 ezi outs over the years and I also have a few that I have shortened. If you refrain from driving them in too far then you have a fire escape. The extractors like drill bits are consumables in my eyes, and the bonus with those kits is that you can get singular replacements. My wife loves your sound effects (Grunt - Groan - Moan). Ps Have a great Holiday, and a safe New Year.
Hey Bruce, Thanks for the pro pointers. I don't think I want to take the advanced getter out classes. As soon as you mention laying underneath something or working under the hood I'm off. Gent Harris mentioned driving the extractor partially in then wiggling it out several times to leave a backdoor to getting the extractor out. I was expecting the extractor to wind up instead of fracturing like it did. I'm looking around for another manifold to try some of the other techniques and suggestions folks like you sent it. Happy holidays to you and yours! Hope you don't get any emergency calls for getter out over the holidays. Cheers, Tom
The real shortcoming of screw extractors is that they further radially compress the seized fastener in the hole. I've found that they work only in the exceptional instance. My condolences, Tom.
I know this was only a demonstration on using a screw extractor kit to remove a broken stud, but it's a great video showing why screw extractors and or easy-outs seldom work. If the bolt is in a housing so tight that it won't back out on it's own without breaking, a hardened and brittle extractor is sure to break off. And driving an extractor or easy-out down into a drilled out bolt just wedges the bolt in even tighter. Easy-out = it ain't easy and it won't come out. Some heat from a good hot torch, some of that Kroil oil he had on the bench and a pair of vice-grips would have that broken bolt out in 5 minutes.
exhaust studs,are heat cycled so many times that they get really hard. that's why the're so much fun to change. some vehicles break studs just because of the way the exhaust mounts and puts load on the studs as the engine vibrates.
Have the same set and never had a problem with it now the other type ez-out actually expands the hole when it’s in but I’ve been using that same set for 15 plus years now
An endmill that broke off in a screw extractor that broke off in a stud that broke off in an exhaust manifold. It's like if doctor suess was a machinist
no hardship is doing this on a manifold in a car, it's at arms reach in a dark,cramped location between the engine and firewall,lots of plastic covered wires hanging nearby,fuel lines to close for my liking,etc,etc AND that you just spent 2 hours working at getting the other 3 studs out only to have this one break off. some days thats enough to make you want to go home and go back to bed.
PB BLaster (or what-not), heat and hammering (hard) on the end of the extractor bit all at the same time does it for me. I removed 12 - 3/4 studs from a mis-aligned turret on a W&S 2SC lathe that were rusted in place for 25 years using that routine. Great video my man.
Hey Craig, You never can tell what folks want to see. They apparently want to see me struggle with a manifold stud. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
oxtoolco Sure, maybe it's a little bit of joy from the misery of others but when it goes easily what do you learn. The big dogs show their size when things go pear shaped. I bet most people watching are here for "EVERY TRICK in the BOOK".
Great video! Yeah, you need to mount the vice under the table where it's hard to get to and even harder to see. Lol. Been down this road before!! It can be tricky drilling center when the bolt is flush like that. The end of the threads make the center mark look off center. I worked for a ford truck dealer and had a Toyota pickup that I used for off-road fun. For reasons I don't understand, ford exhaust studs and bolts almost always break off and give you a fit. And some how all of the 1982-1989 Toyotas that I have had rarely had that problem??? Maybe something to do with the hardness. You found a good one there tho! Lol. Another trick that I have had some success with is taping around the outside with a hammer to help loosen the rust or corrosion. I have even used an air hammer with a blunt end bit. You know your getting somewhere when you start seeing the rusty cloud leaking out. You know, it's the "get a bigger hammer" method! Lol. Good luck! Looking forward to part two through..... Lol.
Should you be able to put another combination wrench opposing the bottom wrench on the top nut of the extractor to prevent eccentrically loading it and snapping off the fluted insert? Also couldn't you just mill out the stud hole old threads, stud and all and retrofit the hole with a helicoil insert?
Wilee Coyote: super genious! Ding ding: round three! Looks like "you're all in". "That's when machinists send it to Keith Fenner"... or grab a stick of dynamite... hee hee hee Wonder if someone is playing a prank on you? Like tempering the stud to ultra hardness, shrunk it in nitrogen, coated the threads and hole with a ceramic resin. You would melt the aluminum manifold before the ceramic resin would melt/release. It is a fastener locking compound used on rocket nozzels, and high temp applications (I googled it).
Hey Joe, The manifold is iron. These two are in Intimate contact with one another. I don't think there is any coating on the threads. I think they were machined as one piece. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
oxtoolco Ooops, it looked like it was aluminum. It's funny Tom, I've failed at numerous attempts to remove a single stud/bolt. Eventually, I'd get it out. I'd fill the sides flat and try vice grips, cut a slot in the top and try a screw driver. drill it, attempt the Hanson "pig-dicks". Break those, cut them off with a cut off wheel and drill for the larger diameter. Pray!!! Conduct an exorcism.....
It took forever for me to remove a broken fastener from the crankcase of my dirt bike. It almost didn't want to drill through the aluminum bolt. It ended up breaking through enough to catch some of the bolt and spin it out. By the way those left hand drill bits are expensive. 5 dollars a pop. What kind of drill would I need to really get through these bolts especially the hardened ones? I mean mine barely got through that soft aluminum.
+Belicose777 Hi Belicose, Good quality high speed drills would work fine. IE not Harbor Freight drills of any flavor. Everybody should have one set of nice drills for those tough jobs. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
I have had those extractors for years. The box they come in is used to support the EZouts that I use that actually work. I gave them an honest try several times.
Sorry Tom, kinda glad it went that way for you because many of my attempts to get a fastener out like that have been much closer to your experience vs Bruce's. I thought I was just not doing it right (Bruce makes it look too easy) but it was good to see a not so perfect example :) Hope you have a good Christmas
I'm sitting here watching the video and I finally say at the end... "that bolt is whooping your ass", then you immediately followed "Man this thing is kicking my ass!". :D
