Can we take a moment to appreciate the torque these 3-phase induction motors are putting out in order for the wheel to slip despite all the weight on top ?
More like take a moment to appreciate how much the control software restricts the torque to prevent the wheels slipping, as opposed to DC traction motors which let rip when they lose traction.
@@crackasaurus_rox9740 all depends on how they're run! Look into the US rail industry some and you'll see it's not the trains themselves that are the problem. I'd be happy to provide you with resources.
Hope they build one of these new fangled "train roads" through my town, will certainly bring economic growth what with all them fancy iron wheels and carts and whatnot.
This is actually quite fascinating to watch. Despite an incredible amount of torque available to the wheels. It doesn't lack precision/control. Unlike back in the day when a steam locomotive had massive torque as well, but feathering like this wasn't an option. "GROUND'er hard today didn't ya? Left a new mark in the rail, sucks for the next guy to get stuck in it!"
@@KarolOfGutovo true it is why steam engines were filled with pipes, to controll the flow of steam. But controlling it precisely took an incredible amount of skill, especially since there was no camera screen to watch the wheels with.
Apparently all Siemens have that distinctive whine, there are a few subways from the eighties still going here in Buenos Aires, as a kid I loved that sound when the train started moving, first the violin like whine and then fans starting up, for cooling I assume. These cars where made here by Fiat - Materfer, with electrics by AEG and traction by Siemens
You might want to check out the Taurus locomotives from Siemens, they have an interesting electrical circuit for driving their motors that produces a toneladder, a false one, but still, a toneladder.
@@rainbowrailroadcrossing7798 Washing machine motors are, probably not 3-phase, because some kind of pulse-modulation used on single-pole motors (our Zanussi one is using carbon brushes and only 1 coil) has already increased their efficiency so much compared to the old days. When our first Zanussi (from the 80's) broke, and we had to buy something else, we were astonished seeing that new machine being capable of 1200 rpm for final rinse, as opposed to the 300rpm the old Zanussi did and we thought that was fast. That washing machine broke down once and we had it serviced, and the person who replaced a PCB in it made it run through a test program in which it would so all parts of most programs supershort, including final spin. Since it was not actually filled with laundry however, it didn't have to find out if it was balanced well enough, so it made a low, aggressive sounding humming sound and spun up stupidly fast as if listening to a big industrial 3-phase motor being started. That one eventually broke down in a different way and the manufacturer made sure that part was unrepairable (broken bearing) and we got a new one. We now have a Zanussi again, which has final spin at 1400 rpm. When there is laundry inside and the balance is good, it sometimes also does it's first check spin and when it notices nothing to be out of balance enough for it to go into final spin immediately, it makes this same low humming sound only to keep it at 400-500 rpm, and then make a screeching sound and takes off right up to 1400rpm. It's pretty impressive what single phase motors can do these days due to the technological advancements made in engine control. Elevators probably are running at three phase yes, but usually use a big reduction gearbox. As for electric bicycle motors: not sure what they use, just like washing machines, it's much easier to get a very controlled amount of power out of single-coil/single phase motors these days, and I feel a three-phase type of setup, no matter how easy it is to make three-phase out of single-phase power feels a bit overkill and unnecessarily complicated for something like an electric bicycle.
Yeah, I mean it seemed pretty easy to me. Its kind of difficult to get sand under the driver when its standing still. Once it got moving at all it was a done deal.
@@rupamsaha2289they throw burst of sand to the rails so that the train can get some traction since its metal to metal contact, the fascinating thing about this whole situation is how something so small like a handful of sand can help so much to move all those tons of weight. Btw im not an expert by any means, but i did my research :)
@@adammeaders248 because there is no way to throw sand under the wheels when its stationary, when it starts moving a tiny bit then the sand helps to get that grip needed
The noise is from the variable frequency drive supplying power to the electric motors. This is similar to the hum you hear from some electrical appliances. In this case, when starting from a stop, the main frequency is very low, but the "carrier" frequency is pretty high. You hear the carrier frequency. This is similar to how an AM radio works, although there, you hear the lower frequency. The VFD allows the motor to supply full torque at any speed.(yes I know that's untrue, but for most people its fine)
Put into perspective, it's pretty impressive how little contact the wheels have with the sleepers, and that it's metal to metal, that it manages to get forward at all considering how much weight it has to haul.
I think you mean "rails". Sleepers are what maintain the gap between the rails (4 ft, 8.5 inches if they're "Standard Gauge") The point you're making is right, tiny contact patch shifting a big load
That is exactly the reason why transportation on railroads is so energy efficient. In the street/rubber tyre system of trucks on roads, you lose much energy just by deformation of the tires.
@@samuellourenco1050 they have enough power to spin, spinning on rails is no bueno though as you can put divots into the rails. You’re just seeing a very delicate application of power that was just enough to get the train moving.
As a freight driver in the UK, this looks like its more of a case of the driver pulling away before the brakes have fully released on the rear of the train. Vectron's are amazing machines, no doubt about it!
That is why there is a sand-applicator aboard to have it put on the tracks to increase grip in case if that is needed. Useful on wet tracks, iced tracks.
In the steam days that was common. You couldn't really throttle a steam engine and this resulted in Grove on difficult tracks that only got worse so the next train got stuck in the same palce...
More than 50% comments are - "what is that thing coming out of pipe?(i.e. sand). So RU-vid should modify the software a bit & show this comment with number of people ( making that comment). This will save repeating the same question say, 300 times. 😊
From an article online: Siemens' modern engines produce up to 4,200 horsepower, and the generator can turn this into almost 4,700 amps of electrical current. The drive motors use this electricity to generate around 60,000 lb-ft of torque. There is also a secondary diesel engine and generator to provide electrical power for the rest of the train. This generator is called the head-end power unit, producing between 500 and 700 kilowatts (kW) of electrical power.
@@michael931 Wow! That’s awesome!!! Thanks for the info. I just got back from The Sacramento, CA Train Museum. It’s incredible to see the old steam locomotives and then to see this on here. We have come a long way.
@@michael931 Edit because I'm stupid. I was looking for the Siemens Taurus, which is an entirely electirc engine, didn't read the title and was confused why you were speaking of Diesel. However, the absolute beast named Taurus has impressive 10.000 horsepower.
Depends on where in Europe the Vectron is used. In Germany, Austria (and I believe Switzerland too, but not sure) it can pull up to 600A from the 15kV, 16 2/3 Hz overhead wire.
From my engineering student days, I recall hearing that the coefficient of static friction is greater than the coefficient of dynamic friction. In fact, a slight amount of slip (~15%) was optimum.
Why does the traction motor make that distinctive sound? I noticed you can hear a really loud version of that same sound on German ICE high speed trains when they are moving slowly too.
I don't know about the "BWAAAAAM" at 0:39, but the high pitched whine is a motor controller, likely a Variable Frequency Drive. There are a few different ways to work it out (PWM for DC, synchronous DC and asynchronous AC), but basically what you're hearing is pulses of electricity, delivered by high power semiconductors (think transistors on steroids), changing the voltage/current going through the motor. This is needed because motors draw more current at standstill than when rotating. When spinning, they act as generators and push back against the voltage supplied (back-EMF). Each motor has unique features, but most have torque-current relationships that are fairly close to linear, especially older motors, meaning the slower they spin, the more torque they produce and the more current they draw. They also tend to have peak power at 50% "no load RPM". So if your motor is producing 100Nm at peak power (half speed) drawing 100A, when locked up (not moving) it will probably draw around 200A. Since the output power is 0 (mechanical power = rpm x torque), 100% of the power will become heat. A VFD (or other motor controller) allows you to knock back the voltage delivered to the motor, so if the above values were taken at 100V, it could run a 50% duty cycle at stand-still to only push 100A through the motor, then bump up the voltage as the train gets moving to prevent melting the motor.
Cuthbert Nibbles , very good to know how much current and voltage that the train generator produces . I'm an electronic tech myself , I work on guitar tube amps or solid state . So I have to work with high voltage all the time . Upwards of 800 volts sits on the plates of many of the tubes that are in these amps. But trains are something that captured my interest. Just amazed how much power they can produce.
@@CuthbertNibbles The drive wheel moves at the limit of adhesion to the rail. "BWAAAAM" is sometimes created in locomotives with modern three-phase drives.
From Steam to semi-conductors. Seeing the motor control unit allowing a small slip is a feast of engineering. A closed loop system following an algorythm, reading the actual movement of the train, compare it to wheel speed, and output just enough electrical impulses on the motor to achieve the desired amount of torque selected by the operator. All this in milliseconds. Humans are ingenious for good things and sadly bad things too.
they could do the same thing as was done building the IORE locomotives in Kassel - thich steel plate in the body and especially heavy boogies. The IORE was built for 30 metric ton of axle load which means that it wasn't really possible to transport them to Luleå in an assembled shape - they were delivered with unmotorized delivery boogies.
I think a locomotive like the Stadler EuroDual would be more successful in North America. Six axles and the ability to run on Diesel as well, e.g. on yards or non elecrified branches
@@georgobergfell Not enough power and no established manufacturing capable of producing and servicing enough units would stand in the way. Siemens is also currently developing a dual mode locomotive based on the Vectron, which has already been purchased by Amtrak.
Try doing this with a steam loco or early diesel. Wheel slip early locos was not recommended as control was difficult. The Siemens system allows a small percentage
@@Master10k2 There's hardly something more simple, cheap and effective to gain some grip on wet steel. No reason to change it. There's a lot less need for it these days thanks to massive improvements in electronic antislip controls but sometimes you need that little extra grip. The use of sand is usually prohibited over switches except in emergencies as it can cause wear as it mixes with grease for the mechanisms.
@@Studio23Media I thought it had to do with a rating since he said “rated torque” honestly it still seems like his comment has a little tiny bit to do with the manufacturer published rating at this time. I get what he was trying to say was a general comment, but then how would you describe the torque accurately, I believe with a unit of measurement, the rating. You are correct about the physics involved thanks, I do understand the torque output curve.
The Siemens traction motor's sound like the Siemens S70 light rail. The Siemens SD160 has a little bit of the hum while in regenerative braking from the braking resistors on the roof. But the DC traction motor's of the Siemens SD100 are quiet. More blower noise than motor hum.
can someone explain the liquid jet? looks like a modern version of throwing sand on tracks to increase traction. I'm guessing water would make things slide more, so it's some sort of adhesive? or is it just coolant? Wheels didn't seem to spin fast enough to warrant coolant usage for the tracks.
Just wondering, is this in any way driver skill, or is it fully automated? Those slips look scary! Any why weren't they putting sand down at the beginning?
Train drivers don’t have gearshifts and accelerator pedals. They don’t have such fine control of the motors - they have maybe 3 to 7 detents on their throttle to choose from
For a second I thought they were out of sand, like why aren't you using your sand? Maybe it won't really work unless you are moving? I think it may be a gravity fed system so perhaps it would just pile sand on the rail unless you are already able to move.
In Hungary, literally almost every cargo train is moved by 40-50 years old hungarian electric locomotives or by soviet diesel locomotives of the same age. How is this Siemens locomotive struggling then? It must be a lot better than decades old equipment
Traction, hence why sand is eventually poured out. The struggling bit is a system trying to prevent wheelspin by limiting further power increase. Think of it as traction control intervening. The heavier the consist, the more problematic traction will be. Simply adding power will not be enough, the added power must be properly distributed. This is why long trains have locomotive on both ends. In extreme lengths common in North America (especially Canada), there are locomotives in the middle because coupler strength is becoming an issue as well.
Because the Vectron only has four axles (Bo'Bo') it puts out much less torque on the tracks than say a DB-232 (Ludmilla) or DB-151 with their six axles (Co′Co′). Six axle trains are rarely seen on Germany's tracks since they need more maintenance and wear out the rails more quickly, so most of them have been replaced with newer models that can struggle in some situations.
