I think this is legitimately the best argument scene in any show. It’s been brewing for four seasons and finally seeing them “clear the air” is so satisfying and gut-wrenching
“I’m sorry he never gave you his approval. I have given you endless approval and it doesn’t fill you up because you’re broken.” Is so powerful. These writers made such a deep piece of work with this, a psychological shitshow under the guise of a corporate drama.
@@andrewstephens5885 he’s right about this too because if you go back and watch season 1 he spends an entire season trying to get her to “connect” with him (i say that loosely) whether it’s the cruises stuff or the wedding and she can’t be bothered with him l, until he has to tell her about the cruises because of gill
When I am being asked why I love this show so much, I point at this scene (and Shiv/Tom's beach scene): - Acting, writing, directing, photography and camera work at their best... Feel so lucky to have been able to enjoy one of the best TV scenes ever made
This argument felt cathartic for the characters and for the audience. I for one have been thinking since season one that they need to talk to each other. This was the first time either of them said what they were thinking to the other, and I felt like it was long overdue.
Every word they said to one another was absolutely true and spot on . Sometimes to reach the light at the end of the tunnel one has to go through a serious and difficult war. But Tom standing up for himself and being truthful about his feelings makes him so sexy, capable and confident. Love a man who is simply confident about himself.
The scene works because both of them are entirely right about what they are saying. Shiv's as broken as the rest of the Roy children, and Tom is a grasping suckup.
3:37 is an absolutely withering rebuttal, and probably the only thing Tom says here that he may regret later. I feel like the episode itself gave Shiv pity points by letting her have the last word in this scene.
Brillant show w/ amazing actors & writting. But along wit Brian Cox, main reason this show stands out is Shiv & Tom. A modern Greek tragedy: I root for them deeply but at the same time know in advance that their relationship is beyond repair and will end in betrayal.
I think both are rotten to the core and would sell their soul for power. Though I think Tom sincerely loved Shiv and would have been willing to give up anything if Shiv had loved and given him some "security". She has not given him love, worse than that she persisted in betraying him countless times, so Tom had no choice...
I’m sorry to everyone who says Shiv isn’t the worst one. They are all bad, but none of them say what they think are literally the most hurtful things they can think of to their partner. Tom actually loved Shiv.
Tom is predictable and to her nothing about him drives her to move in either direction but like a house foundation he is needed for her to stand successfully as an individual.
Tom is predictable AND submissive/a pushover towards Shiv because he feels he is not good enough for her but needs her so much for his social and economic ambitions.
I am not sure what she meant by it either, but after some thought I think that she is talking about the baby, the one thing that she knew that she could deliver. Lady Caroline had told her. more or less. that it was not a good idea for her to have children. Now Tom, of all people, is saying the same thing. In Siobhan's mind, she had one more thing to deliver, per she and Tom's S1 agreement --- the CEO position. She had to outmaneuver both of her brothers. So to hear him say that perhaps she should not have children, everything that has come out now is "so fucking flat."
There is one comment that Shiv makes that I don't understand. She says Tom's mother loves her more than him because she is cracked. Can anyone enlighten me on that comment. I don't remember any talk of her and his mother. Just curious if anyone has any input. TY
I may be off as well, but I think she was commenting on how his family were social climbers, based on the comment about them being parochial and his mom in particular loved the fact that Tom had married the only daughter of one of the richest men in the world, and therefore ensured his entrance to the highest social circles.
All I can remember is in season 1, Tom tells her that he and his mom used to obsessively follow the Roy’s RECNY ball. He told her he’d always wanted to go it.
IMO, Siobhan does everything based on her perspective. I thought that Shiv is surprised that mother-in-law showed any affection for her at all (as opposed to Lady Caroline who is distant). Her mother-in-law might have told Shiv that she loved her and Shiv took it one step further. For example, her mother-in-law may have her sided with her in a Shiv/Tom argument. No one really sides with Shiv, unless they are "cracked."
This scene vividly shows why two broken pieces (in this case individuals) will never make an effective or suitable whole item (marriage or relationship) Their relationship should have ended upon gaining post nut clarity. It reminds me of the song by Frankie Beverly and Maze, “After The Morning After”
@@mysteryman6918 probably. unless Shiv has some surprisingly twisted reason to stay married to Tom, something connected to the company. Making them both trapped even longer in this cold blooded shadow-puppet marriage. no release
