THE BEST Character Buffs in Binding of Isaac HISTORY 

There were so many factors that were stacked against him. It's kinda hard to make boss rush and hush as tlaz even now, so I have no clue how I beat it on pre buff tlaz. I always liked the concept of the character but he was definitely unfinished at the time, but now I think he's great.

​@@turtierg r e e d i e r s t i l l s u c k s t h o

He is definitely a terrible character, but he really isn't nearly as bad as everyone thinks. Trust me when I say I played a lot of AB+ keeper, probably because I'm the only person I know who actually liked playing the character LOL. Keeper has high minmax potential that AB+ lost doesn't have at all. You can get into infinite item AB+ game breaking setups easier with keeper compared to anyone else. A good portion of my keeper runs would be completely immortal which is something the lost has a much harder time doing. Also, and this is still true with repentance keeper, his triple shot doesn't use the normal triple shot tear cap, so he can get 5 fire rate triple shot. The new triple shot is definitely way better but even the old spread is ok, it's kind of like having AOE for room clearing and it's still possible to hit multiple shots against big bosses without being in too much danger. Lost might still be better, but I think they are definitely comparable. I'd argue that keeper is slightly better. However you really need to play AB+ keeper a specific way to make the comparison possible. So for most players the lost will seem way better.

@@turtier idk, i played a lot of old keeper, i supposse i never had a truly great run (i didnt use much the self sacrifice rooms before repentance, so thats a point were i dont have much knowlegde of how busted that was with keeper) Obviously, like i said, the swalloed penny was huge for old keeper, but it wasnt ever a fun experience. As for the tear cap, it is fun but i never reached those moments very often. To me, old keeper was horrible in all perspectives. He was the ultimate challenge character but the challenge was completely invalidated by one trinket, and if you found a blood donation machine you got infinite money for the floor? I rather lose 4 mantle lost runs in a row rather than walk slowly from the shop to the arcade for 1 hour. I guess it was for me unclear wether this was a gameplay experience buff ranking or just a flat power buff ranking. For context in the video i assumed it was both. Old keeper was such a misarable experience for me that new keeper is an straight buff because now i actually play with him instead of avoiding the character (after the unlocks). That is technically a power buff (from 0 deaths 0 wins) to (some deaths some wins). But i did actually like old keeper in greed and greedier mode, Greed mode actually feels kinda cool when health = your power. Is the only time i had fun with that mode.

@@santiagovidelaleiva Oh, this list was purely from a power buff perspective. The mention of AB+ keeper vs AB+ lost in the vid was a bit of a tangent so we didn't spend long on that, but that was also purely power related comparison. I personally did like AB+ keeper but, as I said, I'm the only person I know who does. Even I know that, objectively speaking, he was not at all well designed, so I completely understand people not liking him from a fun perspective lol. I think a lot of my enjoyment from him actually came from being able to do a lot with a poorly designed character that everyone hates. I have a lot of appreciation for AB+ lazarus too. I think theres a trend that characters that people find boring or unfun, such as keeper and lazarus, start to have their perceived power level also brought down due to bias. I try to correct that if possible. AB+ lazarus really is a great example of it, even Manner in this video was arguing that he is worse than or comparable to base isaac, but I'd go as far to say that is objectively untrue (all his stats besides hp are higher than base isaac, and you can choose the exact moment you drop to the single red heart, so it's easy to negate that downside). AB+ laz was never bad power wise. He wasn't powerful either, he was just mid, even lower mid, but definitely not BAD. But he still got that perception due to people finding him uninteresting. AB+ keeper is harder to distinguish, since the character is actually bad too, but for keeper the problem is instead that people miss a lot of his strengths, and I think he's underrated power wise as a result. I'd also argue this trend is still relevant regarding the power perception of tainted lazarus (Manner would fight me on this one LOL). Also yeah, the sacrifice rooms on AB+ keeper were massive. He definitely got the best use out of them. And since it was much easier to get infinites in AB+ compared to rep, it meant coin hearts were just... really really broken. Like seriously overpowered. There's a reason keeper was capped at 2. A lot of coin heart infinites were patched in rep though (which is a good thing, keeper is a more balanced and well rounded character now). But yeah, for the record, if gameplay experience was being ranked, then I agree that there would just be no comparison between AB+ lost and AB+ keeper. I'd probably have mentioned "I like AB+ keeper, but he's objectively badly designed" and I'd let manner guide the placement since he'd be less biased for it. Thanks for the comment!

While AB/AB+ lost WAS a very hard character. NOTHING will compare to pure Rebirth Lost. At least AB Keeper could TAKE A HIT.

​@drakewahl7609 also Rebirth lost didn't even have spectral tears which just makes him even worse, tainted lost is way better as a character in comparison

Thank you very much! We sometimes wonder if we spent too long on certain characters and such but maybe it's just us being too harsh on our own video. A pretty normal reaction, although in one recording we have that isn't yet uploaded, we definitely did spend way too long on one particular thing. Although maybe the debate in that video still ends up being entertaining, who knows lol. Regardless of that, it's nice seeing the positive reaction to this video!

Thanks for the positivity! I felt the same way about how unique our different personalities and playstyles affect our discussions and placements. Hope you enjoy the other lists we've made together and more to come!

Great stuff, please keep making these!

Thank you! This one definitely took more effort than the usual list video, I went through all the wiki pages for the characters and for their items to find the relevant buffs. For tainted characters the changes weren't on the character wiki page so I had to go through the version history patch notes. Was definitely worth it though, was a unique idea and people seem to have liked it!

@@turtier yeah I can tell you guys put a lot of effort into it, awesome stuff!

You definitely make some good points, but I do generally find that a single arcade can fix Eve's red health usually (even without an iv bag, blood donation machines are sufficient). Definitely need to be careful with it, but I have plenty of runs where I put down razor blade and don't take an iv bag either, and I'm fine given some management. The biggest point is definitely that razor blade lets you take more red hp easier for your devil deals (which is a point I made in the video too). I could arguably see Eve moving a little higher in that tier though.

​@turtier eah, its not quite huge, but i thunk its slightly better than stacking book of belial

Agree completely. Potato peeler is another great alternative if you want to forgo devil deals all together since it gives permanent damage increases and lets you live off spirit hearts which you can now get way more of from angel rooms. Also no one ever mentions it gives you free curse room access as long as you have a red heart or two to spare, and a single spirit heart, since you can just hurt yourself with the blade to enter and exit the room and use the I frames. Essentially budget crow heart with no real downside.

Also Idk who the hell is getting an IV bag every run on eve. I legit almost never see arcades on the first few floors and even when I do the machine either doesn't pay out, or pays out w/ a blood bag. Blood bag is way more common than IV most of the time and its obviously awesome when you get one, but actually getting the 5c to spawn an arcade on B2 can be hard sometimes without blowing up your DM floor one, and its not guaranteed when you have 5c either.

Every run is an exaggeration, but I do get it extremely often (and clearly Manner does too). It's usually in caves where I'll get one. So razor blade is good for the very early game, but also at the start of the run you don't have soul hearts yet so you can just intentionally lose your red hp to get into babylon before you get soul hearts (on normal floor 1 I'll just play it out with the bad damage until I get hit twice and otherwise I'll hit myself on a fire/curse room at the end of the floor, and on an XL floor 1 I'll lose the health on a sac room or curse room to preserve my devil deal chance). Getting a hp up in basement 1 might make basement 2 the hardest floor to activate babylon without razor blade and without losing your soul hearts, since you are right that you are unlikely to have found a razor blade alternative this early. Either way, basement 2 is the easiest floor in the game, so it's not a massive issue. Although she maybe should have went above judas after all. Sure, judas can get extremely powerful for greed mode and boss rush, but he was already kinda good at those marks even with a single belial usage. But Eve without babylon is terrible, so even if razor blade bails you out in only a few runs, it gives you such a massive boost that it should be more impactful overall.

Just noticed you did one on curse rooms, well, you got a sub haha

There are many lists I'd want to do but one problem is that most topics would require a lot of time since we want to give each entry enough time. It's unfortunately a little inconvenient for us to find time for these since our time zones are 13 hours dif, and we've both been a bit busy recently, so we slowed down for a bit. We can find time for shorter lists like this one and curse rooms fine, but for longer stuff it's a bit harder. Although this video seems to have suddenly done good (which is cool, this was one of the more unique ideas), so we should try to get back on it! We actually have a list thats kinda similar to bosses (its completion marks) that's recorded but not uploaded yet, where I had a bit too much to say about boss rush lol. I'd love to EVENTUALLY cover every item in one list (over multiple sittings), but I wouldn't really be sure on what the best way to do that would be. Beyond it being difficult to organise time, there's also a secondary issue of us not being sure on how long each video should be. I'm personally the type that wants to cover all the details possible and doesn't want to be restricted by time. Manner does put some priority on time since he worries that longer videos won't have any reach, and he's kinda proven right because our secret room video at almost 4 hours hasn't performed nearly as well as this one and the curse room one at 2 hours. Tbf secret room was our first list and I think a reasonable time frame would have been 3 hours, which is approx 20 items an hour. To kind of showcase the problem, we considered doing shop items, which is 90 items, so I think a list that goes into sufficient detail would have to take 4.5 hours at minimum. And quite a lot of list ideas fall in the 60+ item range, so it's harder to justify a lot of topics when it's harder to organise and we don't know if there is demand for it. That being said, this is podcast like content, so long runtime is more justifiable. If enough people don't mind long lists then we'll have more freedom in choosing list topics. We would appreciate feedback regarding video length and future topics!

I especially want to do bosses, but eventually we'll want to do all of these

@@turtier oh yeah, the struggle to create these is completely understandable - i prefer super long videos, but I would also generally suggest 2-3 hours as a golden length, yeah, maybe you guys could make it an ongoing series, talk about 20-40 items an episode, but record multiple episodes in one sitting. A "Rating and discussing every single item in binding of isaac - part 1" could work for reach and exposure, but I'm only engaging with the isaac creator sphere as a viewer, so idk haha. I'm really surprised the 4 hour episode didnt get a lot more views, it seems like it should be the perfect background content for the intended audience, but oh well. Cheers!

@@latermanner looking forward to it! I'll binge the other lists now haha

Thank you! We only just recently started and did a few of these but we will probably get back on them now.

Thanks! I'd want to do item buffs too but... there is SO many.

I was fighting so hard for missingno on the secret room tier list LOL

Reason it wasn't included is because it happened at the exact same time as another change which was definitely a nerf, which was that her clots now lose hp over time. Tainted eve before both changes was definitely better than tainted eve is now (which is saying a lot because she's still one of the best characters, possibly the best). It was a little annoying that you couldn't ever click sumptorium since you would lose all the excess hp, but you never had to because your clots were always at full health and just shredded everything. You'd need to be a little careful to not hold down the fire button and just tap shoot instead, but it wasn't a big deal.

lmaooooo

The link to the template is in the description of the video. The changes can be found on the Isaac Wiki but we mainly went based off of our own known knowledge.

Yeah, optimal video length is something we've discussed a bit so far. I'm personally the type that would want to prioritise detail over everything else, and I like having time to discuss something back and forth for a while. Manner keeps me in check a little with that lol, we still definitely have enough time to go over things but we have been trying to get a list done within a pre determined time frame. For this list it was 2 hours which we hit. Potentially editing the lists down might work, could potentially let us even relax the normal time limit, although I wouldn't really know what to include or exclude in an edited list. Manner did actually throw around the idea of trimming some individual item debates into youtube shorts, so there's that possibility too. Idk, hopefully we can find a good way to present a shorter version. Thanks for the feedback!

@@turtier i like the idea of doing shorts for the individual items! Its also worth remembering that even just editing out gaps in between speaking and verbal typos can bring down runtime by a pretty good amount. Either way keep up the good work!

It's honestly kinda funny how it perfectly dodged any chance to be useful (would have been usable in rebirth and rep). Definitely a very weird choice to give it to him. Maybe it was meant to be useless? Idk LOL

I hate greed mode I think keeper is fine but god greed mode is a pain Particularly greedier. I only play greed mode for the completion marks

The starting d4 being usable for the lost in a niche version of the game is such a plot twist LOL.

@@turtier Unfortunately it still wasn't useful. You couldn't get enough items to use it effectively. ALL ITEMS became treasure room items with Rebirth D4. (even if they were Devil Room) The way D4 used to work made it EXTREMELY likely to start breakfasting. (This is due to rerolled items NOT being put back into circulation.) Combine this with the pretty weak treasure room pool and much lower item count in general, and yeah. D4 was still basically useless for this character.

@@drakewahl7609 I'd still say it counts as being usable. When I always say "d4 was unusable as the lost" I mean that specifically on the lost it would reroll his mantle. It wouldn't matter if d4 was the best or worst item in the game, it has a specific uselessness on the lost due to mantle. So even if d4 worked differently which made it bad in general, it was still equally usable on the lost as it was on all other characters. I knew about the breakfasting thing but not the treasure room thing. Yeah, definitely makes it much worse, even if rebirth lost had it.

@@turtier It WAS usable. I actually got Mom's Knife from it once and Holy Mantle another time. The problem actually just comes from how D4 wasn't nearly as effective in Rebirth.

We moved it up while we were talking about it though :P

Yeah it definitely moved up

It's literally at the top of Game changer my man smoking

@@latermanner he watched a solid minute 🤣

@@WanderingKumquat Yeah when I first saw the comment I assumed we talked with isaac in huge tier for a while, but literally manner says "he won't be in game changer" at around 1:50 and then even just 40 seconds later we already considering moving him up LOL

Not quite, the 50% for a coin in afterbirth can be a penny, nickel, or a dime. Wiki doesn't list the exact rates for that, but it does list the exact numbers for the buffs in afterbirth+ and repentance (repentance further raised the penny odds by 2% and nickel odds by 1%).

You got me there LOL. Nah I more meant that there is a version of isaac without d6 and the d6 unlock is present in rebirth. So the unlock / buff did originate in wotl but for the sake of this list it was a buff that existed in rebirth.

Truuuuuue

Unlocks count too

What's wrong with it? XD

I'm not in it, but manner did a birthright one with one of his friends earlier on. Character souls we could maybe do soon though!

I did a birthright one but yeah we could do souls for sure

@@latermanner oh my bad i didn't see