The Iliad, but even gayer 

this made me realize that "cleopatra" and "patroclus" are just different arrangements of the same roots.

“Slash fic-cing the Iliad is older than... Jesus”

Let's be real, it's ancient Greece. Historical or mythological accuracy aside, everyone was probably at least bi in some regard.

Thanks for having me be a part of this video! :D

The author’s next book “Circe” is great I found the writing way more interesting and there is a certain veracity to the main character that made me love it

The thing I love about this book is that Miller writes it so that if you do know the story of the Iliad (fairly in depth) the story is littered with foreshadowing and ‘Easter eggs’ such as Patroclus’ promises to never leave Achilles, or Achilles’ assertion that he has no reason to kill Hector because he hasn’t done anything to him personally...

Can you give examples of “flatness”? I really liked her writing style and like the author said, making an emotional case for Patroclus and Achilles.

I would have really liked if the book was told from both Achilles and Patroclus' points of view, so we could see what Achilles felt, and what drew him to Patroclus, because in the story sometimes the love might feel one sided or almost obsessive from Patroclus' side. It also would have been interesting to see what Achilles felt towards his parents, the world around him, Briseis, and when his desire for glory blinded him, what he felt when so many people cheered him on and what he felt in battle. It also would have given us more battle scenes, which would not only be interesting, but also a nice look into Achilles and Patroclus as character. Achilles was a warrior to who battle came naturally, his chapters would be filled with action, the glory and horrors of battle, while Patroclus' chapters in the medical tent and Briseis would be calm and peaceful. This stark difference would have been interesting and show just how different Achilles and Patroclus were, but still loved and completed each other, similar to how a battle can't happen without a camp the soldiers can go back to. The ending wasn't as emotionally strong as the beggining for me, Patroclus' death was done nicely, but Achilles' felt underwhelming, though the interaction between Patroclus and Thetis was nice. In all honesty it didn't really feel like 10 years of work, more like 5, a little less, a little more. Some parts felt rushed while others were very good. All in all a very nice read, the audiobook is very nice, some parts needed shining but still a good book

Did anyone else pause to read 'Patroclus' narration' @ 7:15? Absolute gold lmao

Fantastic review, I don’t think it’s too similar to the last one. You’ve found a new style which I really like, but you’ve also been able to distinguish each review with really good and unique commentary.

My first language isn't english and I found it really easy to read, I was kinda confused at the start like "Why is it so simple to read?" Hey, I'm not complaining LOL But yeah, I think maybe another style of writing would have improved the story (? idk

Well done bud, fantastic review, extremely compelling. Another book to add to the pile.

It took me a while to find this video, but I wanted to because I saw this book in a book store after playing the game Hades and remembered Song of Achilles from this video. I loved the portrayal of Patroclus and Achilles in Hades and I wanted more of that, so remembering there was a whole book about it made me eager to buy the book. All this to say, thank you for introducing me to this book and for all your videos discussing queer books as a whole!

Are there any other fantasy novels that feature lgbtqia+ protagonists that you have enjoyed? Tell us in a reply to this comment so viewers can scroll through for recommendations!

Okay but I don't think reinterpretation is a suitable word because it seems that the love in the book is a fantasy of the author and it is a sort of fanfiction which is not. The love between Achilles and Patroclus is evident to anyone who has a minimal reading comprehension, who knows how to go beyond simple words and get to the true meaning and true message of the story, and it’s not explicit because the Iliad isn’t a love story. It’s about war,glory and blood and a love story between Achilles and Patroclus like the one between Romeo and Juliets would have been off the real topic. This is confirmed by the fact that people like Plato, Aristotle, Aeschylus and even Alexander the great talked about love, which suggests that in antiquity it was an assumed fact. unfortunately the prejudice and ignorance of advanced times have ruined this beautiful story, reducing it and underestimating it. So it’s not “The Iliad but it’s gay”, cause it always has been, and the ancients knew it ;)

This channel is so underrated. I love how you review this book and how you structure the paragraphs, it makes me want to read the book!

If I ever get around to reading this, I will probably be glad for the excerpt and the warning on the book's style of prose. I think knowing what to expect will help me know when I'm in the mood for it, feel more relaxed with it, and avoid chafing against it too much.

Christ, I adore this channel.

I can't pinpoint exactly why, but during proof-watching I found myself becoming very unhappy with how this video turned out. I'd appreciate it if people left their feedback on the video, and feel free to be as harsh as you like.

Whilst I am certainly tired of the remake attitude of many writers and corporations of today, it is mostly due to their lack of innovation when readapting these stories and the small selection. Reinterpretation of older stories I think is important to media in general, so this story being a confident and guided retelling of the Illiad, a book I found quite dry, is not going to stop me from reading it. As to the video itself, I really enjoyed it. I love how you use the accompanying images of the video to help the reader digest what you try to say, whether it be text that phrases it slightly differently or moving pictures that reinforce it. My favorite was the bland textbox "I am sad" obscuring the emotion on Patroclus' face. That said, I think you stumbled a bit with Thetis. I missed the first time through that you mentioned she was a minor goddess, and it was only through prior knowledge that I knew she was so for the context of the video. I think others could have missed that too, and the reading of the passage would have seemed confusing when she seems so godly yet is subject to the other gods' will. Also, while I like the idea of making her seem different than the mortals by having gradients instead of flat colors, the gradients on the head and beak were kind of distracting. I think the glow effect and the dress would have sufficed. "Bull" by David Elliott is not a book by with an lbgbtqia+ protagonist, but it seems like it is in a similar vein of style to this book. It's a retelling of the myth of the minotaur that focuses on various perspectives, and it focuses on the tragedy of being a puppet to the Gods based on your birth. It's also a novel in verse, and I recommend it.

Excellent video! I was blown away with the up in production values and really liked the parsable (but not simplistic) pacing of the video.

I loved the joke at 3:40 lol with a bank of resources like that who needs the extra villagers lol AoE2 is my main game but AoM is still an absolutely amazing game

It would be one thing if I just enjoyed the video, which I did, but the Age of Empires clip and the pre-Themes cute and blunt laugh REALLY got to me. Thanks for making these recommendation videos for books, as well as keeping the video enjoyable all on its own as well.

I absolutely love the new avatar design. I did, as well, love the old design, but this is much more polished. Also, it's been great to see you back.

I’m loving these new videos, and the recommendations!

So glad to see a new update from you. I was worried about you, but you had said a few weeks ago that this was coming. ^^

I've been meaning to expand my personal library a bit so I might go along and pick up this book sometime! Seems like a nice read.

bold of you to assume the illiad wasn’t gay

i love this! i agree for the most part, though i've only read the german version of the book. what i've been wondering, though: how would you explain/interpret the switch of tenses throughout the novel? i noticed them immediately, but i can't find a good explanation for them...

Always a pleasure to see you upload. As for feedback, the timecards + music are a good idea, though the music can be a little distracting as you don't tend to use music when you're breaking down the content proper. I appreciate the animation/new puppets. Hope this helps!

I think I might check this out.

I need TSoA’s fandom to come back 😭

Love your content! And I'm glad you're putting more videos out! Is there any chance you'll make more videos meant to advise aspiring writers? Especially LGBT focused writers?

EmperorTigerStar and CloudCuckooo speak to each other‽

my god the aom joke this is the best :D

This book seems more up my alley than the last one so I bought it for the Kindle app. Is there a particular reason you don't link to Amazon, or is it just a preference for supporting traditional bookstores and book-focused retailers?

Subscribed.

I think this is a good video

Malista Neh Vulome

I feel like this needs that meme of the astronauts; and the one behind holding the gun says "always has been."

I was listening to this, and was in the verge of commenting something along the lines of "surely doesn't this have far too many characters and twisting plotlines to be an accurate retelling of the Iliad," before I remembered that that is exactly what the Iliad was meant to be - it is an Epic, after all. That's just poor listening on my part, but it does make me wonder. On the matter of the Iliad being an Epic, and you mentioning the flatness of the writing possibly being intentional to normalize the insanity of Ancient Greece: could that flatness also be used simultaneously to normalize the relationship between Achilleus/Achilles and Patrocles/Patroklus, _and_ to contrast the Epic style of the original Iliad? If so, I think that may have contributed to the freshness of this retelling (as opposed to the samey retellings of today).

The Iliad but gayer.

4:00

I think by not analysing the changes made to the source material you miss a lot of understanding in terms of authorial intent and don't see the big picture. Being familiar with the source material the departures from it really bothered me. Not because it's different but because of what specifically Miller chose to change. The changes are very specific and all fit a similar purpose, to transform the pair into a modern idea of sterilised gay teen lovers the likes of love, Simon. I feel if more people were familiar with the iliad my complaint would be more common, as people have acknowledged for a while now the issues with a lot of gay male media focusing on sterilised versions of pretty boy gay teens that don't strangress against any boundaries and make straight audiences feel comfortable. It's very much written with straight people in mind, and it's no surprise with the author being a woman (a very big through line in modern popularist gay fiction). As well as the typical misunderstanding from straight women about how men experience sexuality and desire (it's not the same as women and they seem to assume gay men look at men akin to straight women, rather than more accurately being akin to how straight men view women), she also fundamentally changes their dynamic to service the new vibe. Achilles, being the more recognisable hero becomes the more masculine of the two and Patroclus is given the role of his nerdy twink boyfriend that sits around picking flowers and nursing the sick. In the original mythology, Patroclus is several years older, a respected General in the army and very much one of the most impressive fighters amongst the Greeks (undoubtedly the most notable fighter that isn't a direct descendent of a god). His character isn't reframed, its just a different character because it wouldn't have gone over as well having achilles be the younger and more submissive of the two, with both being hypermasculine men (it's ancient Greece) so to change that not just to more realistic modern standards of masculinity but to reflect soft feminine ideals of gay teens as unobtrusive and unthreatening to traditional ideas of masculinity just really rubs me the wrong way. I also didn't like the dialogue, it felt stiff. The constant 'foreshadowing' was like being slapped in the face with a neon sign about how it finishes (seriously how could anyone not know how it ends when it's so so blatantly shoved in your face it just got annoying). And the need to even the score by making Patroclus have sex with that other woman was just bizarre. The author wanted to have her cake and eat it too by using the themes of ancient Greece but couldn't decide where to draw the line between modern cultural norms and Greek ones, and where she eventually decided to make the distinctions are frankly bizarre and create intense tonal dissonance throughout the entire novel when characters are willing to adopt modern Liberal concepts and ideas one minute and the next minute are willing to go to their grave over ancient Greek hospitality laws. It just makes them all seem frivolous and stupid. If she wanted to do it modern she should have done it modern, but the attempt to pretend it's loyal to the source material and bears some historical accuracy is laughable and infuriating. I accept that for most people it could be a fun quick read and moderately entertaining, but I reserve the right to severely question the taste of all the people calling it great (or even just good) literature.

:) thx

On an unrelated point, you should really read the Illiad it's a good book.

i love your accent

Older than Jesus lmao.

Do like good stuff

I broke 169 likes to give my own. Sorry.

You mean gayer-

This book is just historical gay fanfiction