I talk a bit about the last couple seasons of 2012 and it's finale crossover arc with the 87 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! phelous.com / phelous #TMNT #TeenageMutantNinjaTurtles
That line, “I could actually cut someone,” should have been followed by one of the ‘87 turtles saying, “It might send the wrong message to children,” to make the whole thing complete.
Something about Shredder going "I NEVER BLUFF" followed by a random explosion is hilarious to me. "Shredder, you don't have a full house, I call your bluff!" "I NEVER BLUFF" and then the deck of cards just explodes.
Shredder: “I’ll blow more things up then Michael Bay!” Michael Bay: “You’re bluffing... I never get beaten in explosions” Shredder: “I NEVER BLUFF!!” *Sets off more explosions than Michael Bay could ever dream of*
You probably dont care at all but does someone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow forgot the password. I appreciate any tips you can give me
Kind of sad because I would have loved the juxtaposition of Shredder looking like a joke, such as choosing to gloat at inopportune times, having the terrible footsoldiers, and everything to make the 87 Turtles seem incompetent. Only for them to discover, OHH YEAH! Shredder can actually fight, his soldiers are literally mass produced, and the technodrome is actually dangerous.
Yeah, it was a threat. Which is why it always kept being banished into Dimension X at the end of season one or the Earth's core at the end of seasons two, and the episodes of the following season has Shredder doing stuff needed to release the thing from where it was so the villains can use its destructive capabilities.
Jeremy Riley i think it was at the end of season one that the Technodrome was banished to dimension X right.. but in season two it was banished at the north pole or Antarctica or somewhere and season three is when it was banished to the earths core.. now as for season four and the rest I do not remember for I do not have those on DVD.. unfortunately..
Something that really could’ve brought this around “Well guys we’re home” “Yeah but why’s the sky so red?” “And am I the only one feeling a huge tone shift?” “Things are about to get interesting”
You know, Phelous' proposal of allowing the 87 characters to develop more rather than just reducing them to punchlines really would have made the special work at another level as it would have retroactively explained how the 87 show ended up more serious and action-packed in its last three seasons.
When it comes to '87 Michelangelo not being able to deflect things with his nunchaku in this crossover, I like to think he's just relearning how to use them after being stuck with the grappling hook in the latter seasons of his series.
actually I been meaning to ask what the hell is up with that? like what was it with people censoring nunchucks? was there a murder by nunchucks in the 90's or something?
@@Fureiji88 The reason it happened is due to the UK having outlawed nunchucks in tv and film so TMNT, which was retitled as Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles due to ninja being considered too violent. So Michelangelo had his nunchucks replaced with random objects, which prompted the removal of Mikey’s nunchucks and him being stuck with the grappling hook. Hope that clears things up for you.
The one joke I wanted these crossovers and Turtles Forever to make is one of the later teams finding out about the Fourth Wall. Turtles Forever kind of did it-but they needed to go farther IMO. Like, have them go to the 87 universe. Have one og the original turtles break the fourth wall, then when one of the 12 characters asks him who he's talking too, the 87 turtle points to the camera and says "Them". At which point the later team learns their being watched.
I agree about the Splinter idea, such a missed opportunity. Even if the 87 version couldn't meet his 2012 counterpart, it would of been a touching scene to see him give some words of wisdom to the turtles and them expressing how much they miss their father to him.
Maybe if they showed the 2012 Turtle's struggle a bit in the 80's showing that the rules between universe's are in fact different, it would have been more even?
I also liked how they ended the crossover with the classic turtles not beating up the classic bebop and rocksteady, instead somewhat showing some compassion towards the buffoons
I loved April's design for this show and was pretty impressed how well they handled her becoming a ninja. She didn't become instantly skilled within a few episodes and whenever she had to fight, it was pretty minimal like her skill level. It felt more believable. I just wish the subplot of her missing alien mom was resolved.
I'm just going to be honest. The series finale in my head is honestly the ending to the first arc of this season. Everything is just so fitting in my opinion. The Foot Clan get closure, Tiger Claw calls a truce with them, the turtles and Karai actually get to have a goodbye with Splinter, and Shredder realizes that he's become a monster and literally sends himself to hell. Everything just kinda works out. So yeah. That's MY series finale.
That IS the series finale. The rest of Season 5 are side adventures scattered throughout the previous seasons ((with exceptions like the Mad-Max episodes, which took place in the far future)).
Wow I am amazed Phelous you managed not only summarise the three part episode but also major plot lines from Season 4 and the other mini stories of Season 5 effectevly doing a recap of it all and still bringing in fine details of casting and ofcourse the best part, pros and cons without coming of as "I could have wrote it better". Amazing Phelous! I did like this episodes but I did have the same problems. Inconsistencies from the last cross over and to much focus on making the 87 Turtles a joke. I mean if they made it into holding back becuse they are used to fight robots then that´s fine. I did hope 87 Shredder whould step up his game. I was smiling when he at first was beating 2012 Bebop and Rocksteady but that they were just afraid he whould be as powerful as 2012 Shredder so they did´t try at first. Missed oppertunity to have some serious moments bettween him and Karai. We know how it went when he face the 87 Karai or Lotus whatever she was called. Anyway nice input for suggestions for the story if they had Splinter, maybe Shredder out of nowhere should have kidnapped Splinter so that it gave them a motivation to stop Shredder and Krang even more adding the dramatic element and heart you mentioned. But as it is I still enjoy it, I really do love 2012 Bebop and Rocksteady. - You want a hug? Yeah just a quick one.
The thing with 87 Leo worried about cutting someone was dumb, considering in the VERY FIRST fight with the Foot Soldiers , he sliced one in half BEFORE the Turtles found out they were robots! Yes, he (and Raphael stabbing one of the Foot bots with his sai a few seconds earlier) actually attempted to KILL an enemy.
I loved this season's Cowboy Bebop intro, did not expect that at all. Overall the 2012 series is a good example of how to reboot a classic series and make it good enough to stand on its own as well and it managed a pretty good run.
And it doesn't have a toxic fandom that draws pornographic fanart, doesn't write creepy fanfiction, and doesn't try to force it down everyone's throats like religious cultists.
+Khairon Mctassle Yes, the horses are actually all minors. I couldn't take 13 seconds of the show. That toxic fandom spawned from a backfired 4chan prank.
Yeah, him and Slash I noticed. I just figured they explained it to them off screen since the '87 group had no reaction to the Mutanimals showing up. That or the writers got lazy and said screw it. 😂😂
I like how you pointed out some of the positives, then essentially all the negatives, then the rest of the positives - good strategy for the overall message of the video.
I've been waiting of so loooooong... For this review. I perosnally loved this arc, because 2012 Beeps and Rocksteady are awesome and I love their interractions in this. Also drunk Shredder!
I tried watching this version of TMNT when it first came out, couldn't get into it. Holy shit Shredder just straight murders Splinter, and Leo decapitates him later on? Like god damn that's awesome.
I’d love to see Phelous do a full review on the 2012 series. I know he enjoyed it as much as most of us do, but I’d like to see his thoughts in depth on new characters, new storylines, and reintroducing old characters and storylines
While Kevin Michael Richardson 87 Shredder is pretty close, it's still a little off. But what ends really selling it is that he get all the inflections and just the general attitude of the 87 Shredder so it ends really feeling authentic.
That demon plot with resurrected Shredder felt like a wasted opportunity to redeem Shredder after he was called out on being a monster by Leo before he killed him. Alas, even in death he was still evil despite dragging that demon I forgot his name back to hell.
Yes, but he didn't rebel against him till the end instead of being horrified of what he had become the moment he was resurrected and instead played the villain part again like he didn't learn anything. That's my main issue.
I really hope Phelan would do a full analysis of one (maybe more!) of the 1987 series BETTER episodes in a similar vein he covered "Planet of the Turtleoids". Many of the episodes (especially those from 2nd season) really address the strengths of the original series and prove that they could handle heavy, even sad, themes without compromising the humor, action and such. Case in point: "Enter the Fly". I think of the early season episodes it showcases the best (maybe) that the series has its moments of effective drama, there's some horrifying moments for a children's cartoon ("Into the disintegrator unit with him!" Geez!) and Shredder and Krang are played as straight-up villains, absolutely ruthless in comparison to some of their... sillier portrayals. I'm baffled that when people point out how silly the series is, they overlook this and many other great episodes that definitely provide a serious balance to all the comedic (and admittedly enjoyable) tomfoolery. I'd definitely enjoy Phelan's take on the subject, seeing how well he's covered some of the memorable "Real Ghostbusters" episodes. He has a keen sense for details. sharp sense of humor and overall great attitude when he does the more serious reviews of well-produced animations and movies (which he personally enjoys), and we need more of that! Oh yeah, and this review on the second 1987/2012 crossover was great! I watched the episode some time before Phelan reviewed it, and I agree that while this was fun and enjoyable (unlike the other, more cynical take on "old vs new" that shall not be named... forever), they could have utilized the original series characters better. Especially considering how serious the 2012 show could be, they could have pointed out that 1987 series is not devoid of dangerous situations and competent fighting. Well, it is what it is... P.S: they will show the 6-year old me a man being formed into a human-fly hybrid during a disintegration process, but refuse to portray nunchuks in action. Goddamn Hero Turtles, you so inconsistent...
I loved that special. You forgot to mention that scene where B&R went to that warehouse, stored there were the helmet of Robocop, the hat and Gloves of Freddie Kruger, the Vizor of Geordie Laforge and even a Teddy Ruxpin.
What is up with the 1987 villains' sudden desire to destroy everything? Unlike all you 80s kids, I never watched through the Fred Wolf TMNT cartoon, but from what i've seen, i'm pretty sure the most that Krang and The Shredder wanted was world domination. Nothing close to universal annihilation. So, where did all this "blow existence up" stuff come from? It made sense for Ch'rell in Turtles Forever, since he was a ruthless, bloodthirsty, cackling psychopath anyway, but how is it a sensible decision for the lighthearted, bumbling Big Bads from the more wacky, upbeat universe? Would any of the Nick TMNT staff care to explain that? As for 1987 Splinter, maybe they didn't have quite a big enough budget to get Peter Renaday on the project, or the guy's old age is catching up with him.
It's amazing. When I first saw it, the character designs immediately put me off. I gave it shot, though, and the stories got me hooked while the series's reverence for the franchise sealed the deal. The people who made it clearly love TMNT.
I think Raph's beard is a nod to Oscar the Grouch. _TMNT 2012_ is not afraid to throw in wide-ranging references. This show has Roseanne Barr voice Kraang Prime, and that stunt-casting WORKS. It's a shame Nickelodeon gave up on scheduling _TMNT_ effectively around 2016-17, but not surprising. Once _Rise of the TMNT_ was announced before the fifth season wrapped up, it was clear Nick wanted new keys to dangle.
That's in part why the Mutant Apocalypse arc was moved to the middle of the season in airing order and shunted off onto Nicktoons. Nick pulled what they did in the 90's. Angry Beavers is a known example of this. They didn't want to acknowledge the show was ending. Hell, Rise was announced before even Tales started airing and it debuted before Tales was pushed off to Nicktoons with the Usagi Yojimbo arc being the last episodes on Nick after Rise premiered until the Wanted arc. This was most likely due to the Turtles not being the focus in that arc. From what I've heard, Nick made the swap between Mutant Apocalypse and Wanted because they still wanted to do things with those characters and Mutant Apocalypse seemed too final despite it being a distant epilogue. Nick even mentioned that it wasn't even canon. The show creators had no say on that. Now both shows are cancelled
I always like to assume the later redsky season took place in the future in the present time the season was airing while this crossovers with the other TMMT was different time when the show aired. (Turtle Prime maybe season 2, Wanted Bebop and Rocksteady was maybe during Season 4 and Turtles Forever season 6.) Also the later season showed the Channel 6 building get destroyed, the Shredder, Kraang, Bebop and Rocksteady was sent away from another dimension, (and never came back since) the Technodrome was abandoned and rotten away in Dimension X and Splinter made his sons "his equal" and no longer their master. We never seen their NYC hellish and they still look cute and friendly and not mean looking like later. Hell, Michelangelo never cracked a joke in the later seasons.
I think people are confusing 'using weapons' with 'using weapons on robots' because 80's Turtles butchered many a mechanical menace doing just that. And then the whining from the BBC happened and Mike lost his nun-chucks.
darkxaur Censoring happened because of the first movie as kids back in the 90’s were buying real or toy nunchucks, or haphazardly making them, playing with them and getting hurt. And you must admit that when the kids saw the Turtles they did try emulating them. So that’s why Michelangelo’s nunchucks were banned.. not only in the second movie, but also in the show as well. Another reason is that, once again, the first movie in the 90’s was deemed “too violent“ by parents, and so that explains why they dumbed down the second movie, and once again, why Michelangelo’s weapon was banned from the 1987 tv show.
You know Phelous, With the Tone of Street Sharks and Extreme Dinosaurs, they felt like that might have been preparing them for a Crossover with the TMNT during there Red-Sky seasons.
Anthony Barratt their was some legal reasons they couldn’t, which stinks. I could see the show making fun of how the 2003 crew are so edgy, while the 2003 Shredder causes the 2012 turtles to freak out about how he’s a Kraaang AND a Shredder.
Tarlo The Boar I felt that way more with Baxter Stockman. Even as a comedic villain, he felt like a one-trick pony that never really made me laugh that much.
I personally wish this could've been a 2003 series crossover. I think that would've worked better as the 87 turtles honestly don't have much to work with in this episode if you think about it. As you said, they're just going over the same beats that Trans-Dimensional Turtles went over. The 2003 turtles along with Splinter would've worked much better in my opinion. It honestly seems that shows are being forgotten as time goes along. Everywhere you go you see merch of the 2012 and ROTTMNT series and nostalgia for the Mirage, 87, and 90s turtles. In the words of J's Reviews, it was a modern-day retelling that's also trapped in the past.
Plus I could see a bit where the 2012 turtles crying or being sad with seeing the 2003 splinter as they lost theirs. And maybe a moment where the 2012 Casey and April see their 2003 counterparts which I felt that was a wasted potential to not include the 80s version of Casey and April
One crossover episode reveals that 87 Krang is from the 2012 universe, but got banished for being an idiot. So he probably got the rock soldiers he was looking for.
That piece you said about the callousness really resonates with me. I do believe this series was hijacked, for a lack of a better explanation. The energy changed, and not in a good way. It lost its heart, and that's what drew me in. A lovely blend of shadows and light became just one horrible thing after another. Art imitates life. And I feel like I say this every time I make a comment, but it's on my mind. People are changing, and not in a good way. Emotions, empathy, love, and just basic regard for other living beings are becoming more obscure, so it's getting harder for people to write them into fiction.
I started watching the 2012 series a while ago, so I'm a bit bummed I got spoiled, but on the other hand hearing about these storylines just makes me more hyped about continuing with the series.. Especially like hearing about the more darker parts. No Splinter hallucinating about the Rat King and eating rats with his legs broken though? :/
A lot of people who worked on the 2012 tv show had grown up on the 80s turtle show. (not this movie but the tv show) Met one of the studio workes who went to the same animation school as me. They wanted to do thing they wish that could have been done in the 80s version.
I always thought the 2012 TMNT after season 1 became a darker, grittier version of what 1987 TMNT might be like in this day and age and it really shows due to so many villains coming from the 1987 series, oh and you have Irma who is actually the exact opposite of what she was in the original series, if you catch my drift, so I think Casey Jones being an ass goes well with there vision of bringing the 1987 series to this day and age. Also the real series finale, where the TMNT all mutate and it becomes an apocalyptic world goes hand in hand with how the Turtles mutated in season 8 or 9 or the 1987 series but that was due to the fact that there mutation was going out of control, while in 2012 series it was due to a mutagen bomb, they atleast were cured in the 1987 series. Last but not least I always wonder if Fred Wolf was planning on making Shredder into Super Shredder if there was gonna be a season 11 because in one of the red sky episodes, they perfected the mutagen to make people not become mutants but instead Super. It's a real shame they never made that Shredder into Super Shredder as he looks cooler in that form than gruesome twosome 2012 Super Shredder and plus back in the 90s, almost all the TMNT games had Shredder turn Super, you would think it would all lead up to something awesome but instead it lead up to that 5 minute Super Shredder on the dock ending only to kill himself.
Yeah, this special got WAY too close to Turtles Forever territory with its tone and jokes. It's like, you don't need to point out how ludicrous something like the technodrome is, ESPECIALLY considering the premise of your franchise, and everything your iteration did with it up to this point. Just roll with it. One thing that nobody working on these seems to get is for how self-aware the old toon characters could be, they still played the parts of the hero/villain and took things seriously (as the plot demanded), even before getting into the darker seasons. Heck, the first special knew to dial it back and had the 87 turtles pull their own without having to be lectured; here they are just dumb-asses again. Even when the focus is Bebop and Rocksteady, it still feels like "Yeah, these is how its SUPPOSED to be, you loser ass 87 show". I for one would've liked to see a scenario in which the old B & R corrupting the new B & R, who get dumber and lazier the more they hang with their original counterparts. Then ,bearing witness to their uselessness, Shredder goes "fuck it, I WILL kick ass myself".
Red Rodri No. Just, no! The character-arc 2012 Bebop & Rocksteady had was one the highlights of the storyarc and to rob them of that would be a disservice to the 2012 series fans. There could have been a way to incorporate 1987 Bebop & Rocksteady without robbing the 2012 versions of their agency.
Rhett 8 Oh Yea! That coulda been hilarious! Seeing the Shredder finally snap and going after the four of them, the two Beebops and the two Rocksteadys, as well as the eight ninja Turtles.. while having Krang sarcastically comment on this sudden move, something like, “You could’ve done that like 30 years ago, you know! (Growls).” The guys right about the show having the 87 Splinter on, for it would have been good. It would’ve been nice to see the 2012 Turtles react to him after having lost their Splinter. And too bad that the 1987 Shredder did not meet the 2012 Shredder; now that would’ve been interesting! Let’s just demand a redo of that episode for them to do it right this time!
Popcultureguy3000 Yeah they could’ve gotten jealous and tried to stop them. Imagine! The 1987 Bebop and Rocksteady versus the 2012 Bebop and Rocksteady! Now that would’ve been funny!
Have you seen what the new one looks like? It looks like HELL. People want to complain about Next Mutation? THIS is going to be a blemish on the franchise, not that. Raphael the leader of the group? Leonardo the rebel? Raph ditching his sais? It's gonna be shit. Digested pizza shit in a half shell.
I just looked it up... Leo uses one large sword instead of two smaller ones, Raph with tonfa instead of sai, Mikey with a kusari-fundo instead of nunchaku. And Raph is the leader. And also MAGIC POWERS. What...? The Wikipedia article pointing out April fights with a baseball bat also sounds like they're combining her and Casey into one character. And why is she going the way of Wally West and Jimmy Olsen by being a red-head character changed to be a black character? That's such a weirdly specific trend. ... oh, god, I just saw a picture of Splinter...
MrXemnas1992 the complete series is on Hulu if you’re interested in that. That’s how I got caught up after the space arc (I sort of lost interest it definitely came back)
I like to think that this is 87 Turtles before the Red Sky Series and the last crossover was the earlier season 87 Turtles. Like Mikey was still using that stupid grappling hook, he wasn’t used to using his nunchucks like he did back in the earlier seasons, and that was why he fumbled around with them in this crossover.
I really enjoyed the first cross over in the 2012 series but this one seemed to stray far too much into Turtles Forever territory by treating all the original characters as ineffectual idiots.
TBH, the 1987 series was supposed to be like that since it was aimed at kids. Plus, this may have not been planned by Nick, but some outside source who told them to keep the 1987 Turtles silly because it's in their character.
The part where you mention how the 87 Shredder could have met his counterparts from the 2012 series might have more merit than you think Let's say they have 87 Shredder see or look up what his 2012 counterpart did and compare it to his accomplishments Pre-Red Sky Season and have some what of a existential crisis that pushes him to start being more serious and once this crossover ends, Shredder vows to change his ways and become more of a threat to out do his counterpart, thus giving us the origin for the "I never bluff" line he says in the red sky season.
Phelan Porteous thanks, I know you saw it, and I do indeed love the show, and rewatching it was a treat. It had a lot of my favorite TMNT stuff and while I do love 2012, 2003 is still my favorite. But man, 2003 has so many great dumb moments! I hope one of them is how Casey has a mental breakdown about how some stupid hockey cup was stolen and treated it worse then an actual alien invasion.
Honestly I'd really enjoy seeing just how each version of a character thinks of another version. I would love to see what 2012 Shredder thinks of Utrom Shredder and vice versa and I'd also love to see two versions of Splinter to meet because that never seems to happen. Either one is seemingly dead or actually dead. Also would be cool to see another version of the turtles cross over besides the 87 ones because at this point it seems like they can only do one story with them. Everything from the 87 world is goofy but the modern turtles accept it in the end and gain respect, I want to see the 03 and 12 Turtles meet since they are both serious or generally serious so there aren't so many jokes about one team's goofiness so the story can move more smoothly. Hell, one idea I am having is the two teams facing off against the other one's Shredder due to some cosmic absurdity, each fighting a completely different but still all together monstrous and ruthless Shredder that they aren't prepared for.
Hell, I thought of an even cooler concept, 03 Splinter meeting 12 Splinter. They're both Splinters but the 03 was a pet of Hamato Yoshi (if I am getting the name correct) where as the 12 is Yoshi, so 03 would be meeting a different version of his master that shares his form, just imagine how they'd interact when they realize this. Sadly the crossovers only want to use the nostalgic Turtles meeting the modern ones and the modern ones taken back by their goofiness.
Paladin Entertainment Better than a video from a guy who acts like he knows everything. Aka Josh Thomas. Cause I can't stop beating that one into the ground.
I'm only 4 minutes and damn I'm really feeling the 2012 series just from this overview! I'm gonna have to give it a watch at some point. Same goes for at least the first half or so of the 2003 series. First impressions can lead a person to miss out on some great things.
87 Shredder is still the best lmaooo I wish some iteration of Turtles just went with 87 Shredder but making him competent while also keeping The Goof. Like dawg why is this even a problem?? a character can be doofy and scarily competent at the same time. Like vash the stampede except evil. I was SO hoping for 2012 Shredder to be more than "aaa evil monstrey vilain >:(" and, well, eh... Basically I want my villains to be like Sailor Moon villains - on the side of evil, fairly competent but, like, with their own thing going on and personality beyond "aaaa kill the good guys"
1:57 while I still like 2012 Casey, I agree with you on that point. it's worked in reverse though. When Casey got eaten by an alien worm in The Manhattan Project, Donnie seemed genuinely sad about it and consoled April on it, showing he does care to a certain extant.
I think it's almost impossible NOT to focus on the goofiness of the 87 TMNT. Humor, slapstick, and gags are so prevalent there that it's basically a gag series. By the time the Red Sky seasons come along to try to get away from that, it's far too little, too late. It's kind of like when Dragon Ball Super had it's crossover episode with Dr. Slump, where a relatively serious series clashes with the antics of a much sillier one.
@Phelous- I'm glad you like the 2012 series, it was everything the recent movies were not! But I was also disappointed by this finale. It definitely felt like they were mocking the 87 show way more than the previous crossover and Shredder, in particular, felt like a punchline for the most part. Great review, as always, Can't wait for the next Mortal Kombat: Defenders Of The realm video!
@Steven Fraser you might know this by now, but the five-part beginning of Season 5 is actually the ending. The rest of Season 5 are just random adventures throughout time.
Man was 2012 a solid series overall. Here’s hoping the next one can do well too. I sure hope so after seeing the character art on Splatoon 2. Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to give Raph the Frank Miller treatment? Could’ve still given him Tonfa Rods if he was the same size as the others.
To be fair, a lot of the development in the 2012 series was hit or miss at times. You'd have the boys make some kind of stride, only to forget about it in the next episode (and sometimes have to relearn it again), and they were especially bad at taking responsibility for their actions, such as the many mutations they were basically responsible for inflicting on their rogues gallery. Still, it was a fun series overall, and the dystopia finale was pretty interesting given how bittersweet and truly final it felt.
"But if I swing my sword at them, I could actually cut someone!" Oof. Stuff like that and Leo stupidly shouting out "Turtle Power!" in the middle of what's intended to be a stealthy escape are heading towards Turtles Forever levels of exaggerated shallow parody, but overall it seems far less mean-spirited, with some good jokes at the expense of the sillier moments in the '87 series. Enjoyable on the whole. Great review!
