What Kind of Fencing Club IS THIS, Wednesday? 

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I think the instructor permitting dangerous behavior and bullying is part of the point. This is a school for rich weirdos, where both socially and physically hurting your rivals is considered character building and good training for later in life. Actually, the Hogwarts analogy is pretty sound. The sheer amount of wildly unsafe and socially malicious behavior that is permitted makes for an exciting adventure location, but not an great educational experience.

As someone who fences - saluting is a big deal, we do it even when sparring. Hell, it's super common for newbies to over-salute after we reset when someone scores a point because they see people saluting so often.

Kid: "I need an adult" Coach: "I'm an adult" Kid: "I need a different adult!"

My old fencing instructor used to say; "if you're going to kill the person, at least give them a decent salute".

As an adult, when the teacher said "It's your decision, Bianca", I was like no, it's YOUR responsibility to prevent such nonsense!

When I started fencing I was told when to salute and if in doubt just to salute anyway. It never hurts to be more respectful than you are required to be, especially when there are swords involved.

I'd love to say that teachers don't do shit like this, but PE in highschool and bullying right in front of them with no consequences except "Stop antagonizing then Brown" makes this the most realistic thing in that scenario to my eyes

I think the fencing loss also sets up Wednesday as someone who doesn't hesitate to escalate even if she doesn't have what it takes to win. She just goes for it.

To me, Wednesday losing this fight was important to set up that she wasn't better than everyone and wasn't always going to be successful. There is a danger with her character of writing the show so that she's always insufferably correct and superior, and this gives us a Wednesday with some clear room for growth. Either in a "she will win the rematch" scenario or a "this is petty and beneath all of us" scenario.

When you talked about saluting I remembered Harry and Draco facing off in the second book/movie. Perfect example of mutual contemptuous saluting!

Not saluting each other upset me so much. It was such an strange omission for a show that wants to be stylish. I also wonder why they didn’t give the coach a duelling scar to set up the idea-poor coach, bored by not getting to be sadistic and/or tough as he’d like.

I think Wednesday picks the fight because she wants to be an outsider... she's not looking for a status that puts her above others (though she thinks she is) she is looking to make an enemy of the popular so that she can be seen as the opposite. If the whole school hates you it is easier to be alone and devise a way to escape/get kicked out.

To me it makes sense that Nevermore, the school Gomez Adams graduated from and fondly remembers, has its own type of fencing that looks superficially like Olympic fencing at a glance, but is much more laissez-faire and throat-cut in actuality.

"Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, I said no fighty fighty" That line killed me 😂😂😂

Schläger duels in Germany had you stand on boxes and duel each other with sharpened points and only eye protection. Mensur scars, i.e. scars from those duels, were considered high fashion. Inflicting the scars indicated dueling prowess, and receiving the scar well would result in you being regarded as tough enough to take a hit.

"extended rant with some positives thrown in" is definitely what I'm here for

the coach the entire scene: "I'll allow it"

Safety does not seem to be a thing at Nevermore. In the episode after this, there is a boating competition that explicitly has no rules, and where the students are free to sabotage one another and using Ben Hur-like devices to sink each others' boats.

Ooo, I feel like “Be a little more McGonagall” would be a great piece of merch!

lol Yeah, that teacher just letting the fight escalate sent me straight back to eighth grade. PE ‘teachers’ straight up telling guys to fight to “get it out of our system” was about a weekly occurrence. Made life miserable for those of us who didn’t have something to prove.

Honestly one of the things that brought me up is her black uniform. My understanding was that the coach wore black both so everyone knows who he is, even with the mask on, but also because since it is mainly for coaches it has more padding so getting repeated hits in demonstrations doesn't hurt as bad. When I was fencing this actually came up, someone came in who had been coaching his high-school team.

One of the things that the whole Addams Family franchise, starting with the original cartoons, had going was this idea that they're everything that a normal family can't be because it's too strange for polite society, and yet somehow the consequences of that strangeness never stick. It's a different kind of fantasy storytelling, but really no different in spirit from Harry Potter's magicians never being discovered by the muggle society. So yeah, the school is a constant contradiction in that events take place that should have consequences, but don't. That's just the genre we're in.

The teacher’s uselessness was the most realistic part of that scene.

Btw, I can confirm that you can DEFINITELY draw blood with a blunt sabre! My jacket's sleeve pulled a little loose from my glove during a match, and my opponent, trying to stab for my chest under my arm, got parried by my bell into shooting that blade right up the gap. Left a very nice 6" scar on my forearm. Pro, it drew a nice bloody line, so it left a scar, but it was shallow and didn't need stitches. Con, it was shallow and didn't need stitches, so it vanished over 20 years without me quite noticing it. It might still be there under ultraviolet...? But alas, only as a memory.

I love Jill flexing fencing knowledge about foils and sabers.

A show that could be great to take a look at the fencing in is a show called Lockwood and Co. The fencing in it is amazing. Love your videos!

Gomez and Morticia are so tolerant of Wednesday, they don't even mind her casually waterboarding her brother. Best parents ever! ....Wait!

I love your braids! Great idea with the “Wednesday confessionals”!

The lack of saluting definitely takes you out of the scene. Atleast to me. Like they did the salute even in the Harry Potter movies in the Harry vs Draco.

Hi! I really loved this video! If you are interested in reacting to some fencing scenes in another Netflix fantasy show for your RU-vid channel, I have a recommendation for you! It’s a show called Lockwood and Co, and it was released this year in January. Lockwood and Co is based on Jonathan Stroud’s book series of the same name, and it is a fictional story set in London during a ghostly epidemic of hauntings. In this “Problem”-riddled London, only young people have the ability to detect and fight ghosts. A really big part of the worldbuilding in this show is fencing and rapier-work. There are many fight scenes that involve fencing with rapiers (involving human to human, as well as human to ghost combat). Since you like covering stage fights in your RU-vid channel, I think this show would be right up your alley! I, and other Lockwood and Co fans, would love to see you talk about this show on your channel!

I think the only reason they aimed at the legs was to knock them off balance, because if you have to flail your arms to get your balance which means they can't protect thier face at the same time.

I wasn't expecting Wednesday to lose, but I was glad she did.

I chalked it up to the TV high school cliche of adults being useless and having no authority. And I don't see any faculty support. Where are clerks, SECAs and TAs? And Can someone explain why the love interests are boring?

"Wednesday. Tango. Foxtrot." So good on so many levels. Well done.

Yeah, I kinda think it is leaning into the whole weirdos=monsters thing, there's a theme of outcasts being violently murdered in the series that kind of indicate that being able to defend yourself is taken a lot more seriously at Nevermore than other places. Then again, some of your points would have enhanced that, I'd have been partial to a "old german with fencing scarred cheek" character myself.

Doesn't she mention to Morticia about her having been in fencing? So this could also be Wednesday trying to one-up her mom

It's been almost 30 years since the last time I fenced, so I forgot about the importance of saluting. However, I do remember that without electronic scoring, it takes 5 people to properly judge a saber match. "Attack, parry, riposte, hit left" and then the two people watching for hits on that side concur or not. It's very involved.

i was unnerved by the coach being so blase about his students trying to slice each others' faces open until the boat race happened, at which point i realized that no, it's definitely supposed to be fucked-up, and serious bodily injury is just an accepted risk. (even right before that with the "garlic incident," i realized that they definitely don't care if students get roughed up. like how hard is it to not serve food with garlic in it when probably a third of your student population is deathly allergic to it???)

“Be a little more McGonagall”…..❤️love it!

@JillBearup In the Addams world, the "freaks" never give "safety" any regard. Gomez challenging guests to fencing, the knife throwing, Fester being electrocuted constantly, Wednesday trying to execute her brother. The fencing scene is perfectly normal in their world.

From the moment this scene entered my corneas, I knew you'd do a video on it. Wednesday is really good, keep at it!

Whisky, tango foxtro--- ohhhhh, that's a good one! I'm stealing that.

Wednesday's character arc is about her being this super femme fatale image that scares away bullies and anyone thinking about messing with her.... and suffering for it in an environment where these defenses are not necessary and where she would be accepted if she just got over herself. I don't think she's just used to these defenses, she actively believes her own nonsense about her being unemotional, even psychotic that unapologetically uses people but doesn't understand that being that person has disadvantages. Like she got the ideas from books and it worked to get highschool bullies off her, but doesn't understand that this is not a constructive way to build your life. I actually think that's a good way to write a teenage Wednesday Addams. As for the fencing coach, it is stated that all the teachers except one is a freak of some sort. So this guy might be some centuries-old dude who was a fencing instructor or something when this sort of petty honor-dueling was common and even part of his life, so he allows it because he thinks this is part of fencing. And the school doesn't look at it closely becuase they have a hard time getting teachers or qualifications aren't the highest hiring criteria.

I was expecting Wednesday to win but I had the same thought immediately after the fight that this gives her room to grow. It's great that she's not automatically the best at everything, even if she is very good.

Its' so strange, I've been watching only your fantasy heroine series for so long that I can't unsee Rosamound and Caroline when I look at you

"Whiskey Tango Foxtrot"...... Appreciate!

Watched the scene a couple of days ago and thought “Oh she is gonna do a thing about this” 10:46 run time… I am excite.

I think a lot of the danger inherent to the stuff they do in this show is mitigated by the simple fact that were operating in The Addams Universe as it were, where Wednesday regularly electrocutes Pugsly, and the family dumps scalding oil on carolers. Danger that isn't immediately relevant to the plot kinda doesn't apply where the Addams' are concerned XD

If I had to give an in-story reason for the coach letting it all happen, I'd say "the kid's parents are to rich for me to do anything else".

I'm with you on the saluting each other being mandatory. no matter what we had to do that at practice, didn't matter if we were tired or had already had a sparring match that day. EVERY time you start fencing somebody you salute them.

as a former fencer: yes, you always salute. it's basically muscle memory for anybody at their (purported) level anything below the waist is off-target for sabre, so technically aiming for the lower legs is not something saberists train for. (and never mind the spinning moves)

I think the "no salute" thing is supposed to indicate lack of respect for eachother. Saluting is mainly sportsmanship in most sports so i believe the lack of salute implies this is not a "sports thing" but an actual real fight disguised as a sparr

Heey! I really enjoyed your video and explanations! 😍I would love to see your review of Lockwood and Co as it has many fencing scenes and is very thrilling and entertaining show on its own!

I got the impression that this scene was written for epee but was switched to sabre later. Would make a lot more sense with the dialogue at least.

Argh! Subtitles misidentifying weapons! Foiled again!

SaveLockwoodandCo

Ooooo fight analysis is back Those and your rants about wedge heels are your best stuff

Oh my gosh, you should give Lockwood and Co a watch if you need more shows that have Fencing in them. It's a show about kids who fight ghosts with Rapiers.

"Be a little more McGonagall" is my new moto as a lecturer

I created the fencing scene in Bridgerton series 2 and trained the actors (Jonathan Bailey, Luke Thompson and Luke Newton) to do the scene. The actors were great but it's hard because the script doesn't tend to make sense from a fencing point of view to start with, the director has funny ideas and then anything could happen in editing. I think in the end I was happy with how the Bridgerton scene came out, pretty close to my vision.

Nothing say I'm a great teacher like safety violations lol

Hah, I only watched the first episode yesterday and did keep thinking that this fight seemed bogus fencing 😄

Given that we had a lay guy working as a doctor and psychiatrist for 17 years here in Germany, it's probably safe to say that "School of Rock" borders on documentary. On a totally different note: I LOVE these on-point fight scene analyses (former stage combat instructor here). Your understanding of both crafts (acting and blade business) is delightful! Regarding the "no tips": that might be inspired by "Theatre of Blood" from 1973. It starred Vincent Price as a, say, creatively vengeful actor, and it had a somewhat similar fight with a "remove the tip" moment in it.

Probably they didn't do good research. The part Wednesday speaks German. Let me say it like that: There are some German words at the beginning, and some in the end. Middle part is complete gibberish and an English number is somewhere in between. I'm pretty sure if she had a native German instructor, she could have learned everything she had to say in a day. If she knew already some German (kindergarden-vocabulary) it wouldn't be more than a few hours (just corrections for some kind of perfection). She might still have an accent, but it wouldn't have been gibberish. German pronounciation is much easier than English. Don't get me wrong, it is the only thing that is easier. You learn it once and you can pronounce quite difficult words. There can be tricky words, that may be slightly different spelled like Blumento-Pferde [German Insider]. But for German kids, the hardest thing is to learn are the letters - once they know them, they can read close to anything. And even if you misspell a word, Germans might still understand, what you originally meant. (I do readings with German-Learners - like coaching here and there a little bit - and the most difficult thing we encounter are English words in German texts. They have no chance to know if the pronounciation is English or German.)

I remember very vaguely when I did fencing in High-school that we had very cheap foils and they had plastic tips. I don't think I ever removed one to see what was underneath, although it was the 90's and I could totally see them getting real cheap ass foils and pretending to blunt them with plastic. That might be what they meant by tips, with some writer drawing from hazy childhood memories.

Fight analysis or rant it doesn't matter... We win either way.

So i'm a science teacher and sometimes we deal with practical lessons where there's small risks, hot water, irritating chemicals, electricity, etc.If a child in my lesson somehow ended up with a gash across their forehead i'm fairly sure i'd be in for a disciplinary.

As you will find out in a later episode, the school has very lax rules in regards to safety. At least when it comes to student v student. They do have rules in regards to normies.

i was very pleased to hear you say "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" For WTF! As an old Navy man, we said that all the time and was very excited to hear the proper phonetics. Excellent review! It is such a pleasure to hear and see you expound passionately!

At my fencing club we don't always salute for casual sparring matches either and if we do it's usually a very sloppy, quick motion before putting on the mask. Though, granted, the atmosphere at our club is a lot more relaxed than what we see in this scene.

As a fencer trying to convince my family how stupid this scene is, thank you! You have vindicated me!

*i must say the fencing sequence was much more dramatic than it would have been if foam pool noodles had been utilized...and far less silly*

As someone who participated in a swordsmanship club during college. Yes it's crazy that they did that we never took off our face masks

In the military challenge I can see why Wednesday would slash at the feet. As you said Bianca is taller than Wednesday and she did score a point because of her height advantage. Wednesday is crouching and wants to drive Bianca back so go for the legs.

The other reason for the salute is to make sure that your opponent is ready to fight/you are fighting the right person. I totally agree that the coach making them salute would've been a perfectly reasonable 10-20 second beat that establishes character.

lmaooo this is so true i think youve pointed out all the worst parts of this scene. I'm a foil fencer but its wild to me how much theyre fencing like foilists and not saberists EVEN THOUGH theyre using sabers. And like you said, saluting is still VERY MUCH a thing you do, exactly like putting on your seatbelt. And i fenced in school so I would know.

The Handel's of the weapons at the start look like sabers, however the lack of an electric laramie suggests épée

I have trouble liking Wednesday because I feel like the show misses the point of the Addams Family and misses on the characters. The fencing scene is an example of this, because Wednesday has literally nothing to prove here and Bianca hasn’t crossed her, so Wednesday deciding to throw down with her doesn’t make sense. Also, fencing is ALL form and discipline… even epee. Even if the couch is a supernatural vampire weirdo who doesn’t mind teenagers spilling a little blood, the rules should matter to him, because the whole point of fencing is to give your street fight some structure and then it became a sport. It would have been more satisfying if Bianca and Wednesday fight started to become dirty on the third action and the couch immediately called it off, leaving Wednesday and Bianca with no clear victor but a definite rivalry.

"When I caste my mind back to Hogworts" sounded ominously first hand. Images of you running straight through a wall at Botanic.

WRT _School of Rock,_ the reason Jack Black's work makes no sense when you look at it seriously is that _it wasn't ever meant to be taken seriously._ While not as openly in-your-face parodic as many satires, the film was very much a satire of the "miracle worker teacher" genre, and was so effective at making them look ridiculous that we've since stopped seeing miracle worker teacher films almost entirely.

Two comments, 1) yes if a point is scored in sabre you go back to the starting points. Only exception is if the Judge cannot determine right of way when both combatants hit at once and thus no point is awarded. 2) when Bond had that 'first blood from the torso' they took OFF the jackets. Though I think there is a German style of duel which is first blood from the face but I couldn't give the name

I binged the series, it is so good. I liked that Wednesday looses it gives her an opportunity for growth that I don’t think would have been there if she had won.

Most of the moves in the fencing scene hurt me in my soul. Mosty the needless spining, but some of the "normal" attacks as well.

True, as a fencer I can confirm that you salute. Always. When I saw the scene I thought it was sluggish footwork.

Can’t wait for your commentary on the choreography in episode 4.

I knew you would be on this the minute I saw this scene

Our collegiate epee matches were notoriously dirty. College fencing in the mid 1970s in Florida was almost without adult supervision of any kind, and we embraced our rivalries.

I personally think Wednesday dueling Bianca is her take on the old "beat up the toughest guy in prison so nobody dares to mess with you"

...is it odd that this video has sold me on archive bingeing the series at the next convenient opportunity?

THANK YOU!!! Now, I'll be the first person to admit my fencing knowledge is limited. ( I took six weeks of lessons in the mid-1990s) However, you hit every single point that took me out of the scene. From the "um, those are sabers" to the WTF on "no tips". While there are a few more things I didn't like about the series (YA tropes of the love triangle, frienemies, and bestie becomes the late-blooming hero), I LOVED this iteration of The Addamses.

Saluting in fencing seems like bowing in karate. You gotta do it. If in doubt, do it. If you don't do it your sensei won't let you continue.

Wednesday just seems to me like modern halfway between Harry Potter and just any old rich american upper east coast school.

I feel like the biggest issue with trying to critically assess anything Addams-related is that, despite the very grim aesthetic of everything, it's a *whimsical cartoon* and is framed as such. When she walks down the center of the fencing hall you're not supposed to grapple with the realism of how that's really rude and unsafe, you're supposed to quietly chuckle at how inhumanly disengaged Wednesday is from her surroundings. It's a very specific style of comedy that people either love or hate, but just like assessing an Bugs Bunny based on realism misses the point I'd saying this assessment of Wednesday misses the point as well.

I was confused at how it ended. Wednesday says "no tips" and Bianca wins by using her tip. I was like, what's wrong, why'd you stop? That hit doesn't count; it was a tip hit. Wednesday said "no tips", not "first blood", lol 😅...

"Be a little bit McGonagal ..." may be one of my new mantras!

Seriously! I couldn't even watch this scene. I got up to make tea and told my husband to tell me when the nonsense was over.

I had all the same thoughts!!! This scene confused me and raised many doubts about the series' quality. To me, episode 1 was the worse of the series and didn't meet previous Addams's family standards.

2:50 It's been a while since both of us were in High School but I think that is exactly how it works. If I remember my school days correctly at least. On another note Love the hair. Whether it's themed or just a coincidence the twin tails fits brilliantly.

I fence and my brother who doesn't sent me this video asking if it made sense to me. I'll blatantly say I was laughing so hard the whole time. The only way you fall in Fencing is if your footwork is sloppy, the vertical swords I would have never noticed and was hilarious, and WHY IS THE COACH NOT MORE CONCERNED!? Our coaches at my fencing club get after us a ton for just sloppy footwork cause the only way you get hurt in fencing in a very severe way is if you fall (I've heard stories of sprained/broken ankles and concussions). I was laughing so hard, you've earned a new subscriber out of me. Can't wait to binge a bunch of your other videos!