You guys know more than me so im sure theres an explanation. I appreciate you say its likely to be errata'd anyway. But does the Lord Imperatent ability definitely stack and not trigger the Rule of One. If not, could you explain why?
The Lord-Imperatant is the unit using the ability, and it does not say Once Per Battle (Army), so each Lord-Imperatant can use Guided By Lightning once per battle.
Played a 2k today vs DoK Lord Imperitant Knight Vexillor Questor Soulsworn 20 Vanquishers Neave & Blacktalons WarLord Vigilant on Drake Knight Vexillor 6 Reclusians Prosecutors Prosecutors Vexillor’s healed over 20 wounds by bottom of 3. Soulsworn and Vanquishers did a lot of work. Vanquishers, being more squishy, are a good candidate to bring back. Neave & the Blacktalons did as much damage as the Vanquishers and Soulsworn. Just for comparison, if you take their points at 360, factor out the included Wizard (120), the cost-to-performance of Neave & Co is 240pts. The weapon profiles don’t look that great at first pass, but it outperforms Questor outside of objectives. The Longstike profile won’t 1-shot a 6-wound hero in one phase, but it will take out one hero in two shooting phases. Their Wizard’s spell is ridiculous for durability, they were constantly in combat and only had one wound end of T3. The “Companions” need a chamber keyword, the Wizard needs to be a (2), and I’d say 360pts is A+ Tier. Lord Vigilant on StarDrake, the “fight twice” ability isn’t worth 210pts, considering you’re using it on Reculsians. Speaking of Ruination units, their ability didn’t activate much against the DoK, or don’t know how to use it right, as it seemed they were never the target of any non-core ability. Prosecutors at 140pts are a solid-B for me, but they help with Synchronized Strikes and their javelins are above average. They have specific targets you want to go after, and ones you want to avoid. Throwing triple sixes on a charge is hilarious though. I don’t think we need more than 1 Calvary or 1 Longstrike. I feel that AOS4 is about managing 200-300pt hammer and anvil units, and if you’re bringing something sub-200 it better be a support unit. FEC seems to play the same. Switch ups: drop Neave, Lord Imperitant and the Lord Vigilant, add in Ionus, Lord Veritant and a Knight Questor? Or Lord Relictor and Longstrikes?
Very good. I might have mentioned that 1950 or less gets you an extra command point on turn 1. Also that you can do a one drop or drop the units in a regiment one at a time but then you need to drop them all out and probably no one will do that. Also that heroic traits are not command traits you can put them on a unit that isn’t your general. Unique units can’t take heroic items or artifacts.
Half the rules on a 2+ or a 3+ is so fucking stupid I dont think I have the start of a reasonnable explanation. Have these game designers EVER play a good game before ? I know I already ranted on that very subject, but in depht look in the new profiles makes it even worse somehow : THIS IS A DESIGN DECISION ?!
@@TheStormkeepGood to know, never got to play Oakenbrow (tree heavy Sylvaneth, and was bummed out Tree lords became heroes. But thankfully they became lieutenants so I can still have plenty of trees in my army.
Thank you for a great short guide to building lists. More short duration guides would be appreciated as they are useful to quickly listen to on focussed topics. More of these please.😊
from your podcast , i take it that a unit of 6 longstrike with piority target buff is the best thing we have for now right? cause they will also hit on 3+ and not 4+ when they covering fire as well.
Thanks for this. I feel that Legends seems to be our main / core units, and the fraction pack is just supplementary stuff. Haha. E.g Army consists of 80% legends, but mix in Longstrikes. This kinda of sucks, cuz it feeds into the theory that GW just buffs these units, sucker competitive players in to buy models (clear old stock) that will be obsolete in a year... Hence the solution will be to enjoy the game casually, wait a year for the "new" SCE to emerge, or just switch fractions ....
Our initial impressions were that the Legends stuff is core to the army, but after crunching the numbers it feels more like a sidegrade. Stormcast are definitely playable and strong without any Legends units. The main thing Legends offers is more options for Regiments with heroes like Gavriel and Astreia. Hopefully when they move those units to Legends they will also lighten up some list building restrictions for the rest of the army.
The Evocators having 2 control is clearly a mistake. I have a feeling a lot of the legends rule units will get points hikes to be unplayable. It feels like both halves of SCE were written by different people that didn't share notes...
Also re-reading so many of the legends abilities, I'm sure more will get "Once per turn (army)" added on to all the really strong abilities to prevent stacking in an army~
I look forward to picking a knight-vexillor as my general and 16 aux units on vindictors. It doesn't matter if the opponent gets an extra CP because I am playing Vindictors. I will always be the underdog and getting those bonuses. Having nothing in the general's regiment shuts down one of the opponents battle tactics. Vindictors are favorite, and first, unit in AOS. I don't think I will ever bring my general out of the sky for a full flavor win.
Thanks for the overview! Just getting into AoS with this edition and this was super nice to get a handle on whats up! 48:50 Liberators 52:53 Vanquishers 56:30 Vindictors 59:40 Celestant Prime 1:05:58 Gardus Steel Soul 1:09:55 Knight Arcanum 1:13:43 Knight Draconis 1:16:40 Knight Judicator 1:20:00 Knight Questor 1:22:50 Knight Relictor 1:26:10 Knight Vexillor 1:31:58 Lord Aquilor 1:36:05 Lord Celestant 1:39:08 Lord Celestant on Dracoth 1:41:10 Quick rule talk on Quicksilver Draught 1:44:55 Bastian Carthalos 1:51:50 Lord Imeratant 1:58:18 Lord Relictor 1:58:31 Lord Veritant 2:00:02 Neave and her Companions 2:00:30 Vandus Hammerhand 2:01:33 Yndrasta 2:03:55 Drakesworn Templar 2:06:43 Karazai 2:08:16 Krondys 2:09:28 Lord Celestant on Stardrake 2:11:32 Aetherwings 2:13:05 Annihilators 2:14:39 Gryph-hounds 2:15:25 Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers 2:17:10 Dracoth Concussors/Fulminators/Desolators/Tempestors 2:21:12 Praetors 2:22:47 Prosecutors 2:24:28 Stormdrake Guard 2:26:26 Stormstrike Chariot 2:27:53 Vanguard Hunters 2:28:20 Vanguard Pallidors w/ Javelins 2:29:26 Vanguard Pallidors w/ Handaxes 2:31:40 Vanguard Raptors w/ Hurricane Crossbows 2:32:24 Vanguard Raptors w/ Longstrikes 2:36:33 Vigilors 2:39:38 Questor Soulsworn 2:41:12 Lord Vigilant on Gryph Stalker 2:42:59 Lord Terminos 2:43:35 Reclusians 2:44:13 Ionus Cryptborn Not doing legends cause I ain’t buying models I won’t be using in less than a year lol Thanks again for the video! Time to do my job ig
@@Darwingreen5 I added those timestamps to the description I usually go back and add timestamps once the stream is done processing on RU-vid, but snowyball76 beat me to it this time!
We will have some sample lists included with our Faction Pack Review, but we are going to wait until the Battletome is released before we do a full list building video If you want to talk about lists right now then feel free to jump into the server - people are cooking up all sorts of tasty lists in there :)
There is absolutely zero chance using multiple lord imperatants to give a unit multiple d3 moves is intended. If someone tried to play it that way against me I think I'd just giggle. If I was a TO I would 100% not allow it. Funnily enough though I'm not sure it is actually all that overpowered. It's so many points.
@TheStormkeep it'd almost be a shame if it gets errata'd out. Seems like about the only way to use Scions of the Storm offensively in a semi-reliable way. I'd happily pay the points to launch that tactical nuke in a casual game. Stack it with Gardus and Thunderhead Host and there's potential for it to be hilariously OTT
A note about the retreat + teleport for Vanguard units - the 5.3 'Rule of One' rule says that a unit cannot use more than one CORE ability per phase. The teleport is a CORE ability, as is the retreat move. So you couldn't retreat out of combat and then teleport.
@@daze226 If an ability is not on a warscroll, and does not specify who uses the ability, then the ability is used by the player. Each unit can use one CORE ability per phase. Since the unit is not using Vanguard Wing they can still use a CORE ability like Move or Retreat
@@TheStormkeep awesome that’s good to know! Love your content btw many thanks for all the good work👌 Also I missed that you actually cover this a bit at 26:00. Appreciate the replies and learning all the same
@@TheStormkeep Thank you so much for explaining! First time Stormcast here - will have the Dominion Half + Skaventide half to start my collection with so trying to make sense of it all.
@@aaravbasantani7774 Lances! 4x Stormdrakes are playable, but very expensive, so if you don't play them carefully they can die too quickly and cost you the game. I would pair Krondys with units that have a lot of attacks but relatively low Rend, like Crossbow Judicators
On the Fulmanators specifically I don’t know if you guys noticed they went from five attacks to three attacks. That’s a significant downgrade and damage.
I’m hosting a small two day tournament this weekend, and I’d booked the date pretty long ago so we weren’t sure if we would be using AoS 3 or AoS 4. And now I need to really quickly make a Stormcasts list! 😅 At least the gargant players who only get their rules the day before have like 5 choices, we have about 60😊
The strike-first sidebar is too weird, it doesn't actually explicitly say you cant "share" it at all. I think its just trying to talk about using paired fighting to override debuffs. It also doesn't then say how such abilities do interact with it. So when then does a strike-first immediate attack after unit fight, do I get my +1 hit or whatever or not. What are the "constraints"?
You glossed over the fact that the Sacrosanct Battle Formation only brings back a model that died this turn. On your turn. You can't just willy-nilly bring back a model each turn whenever your unit is not full. Essentially it only kicks in if you lose guys to out-of-sequence damage like Covering Fire, or on the clapback from melee (which you don't want to happen, on your turn you want to charge and wipe or at least neuter the thing you are charging, especially with your Fights First dracolines). It is significantly weaker and more corner case situational than you seem to believe from what you said on stream.
3 units of Prosecutors, 420 points Bastian Carthlos, 270 points Move then 12" after all units are deployed to control area. Alpha-Strike them if you are going first. Kill the important support heroes of the enemy. When they die you can bring back 2 out of 3 models. Good deal.
@@weekendwargamers He means reviving one unit with Heavens Sent. It rounds up, so units of 3 come back as a unit of 2. Still, I don't think Prosecutors are the best value for that ability.
First impressions - negative They took a nerf bat to the army and beat it mercilessly (Btw, apparently there was a line because SCE wasn't the only one, imo) I think skilled players will absolutely mathhammer out 5-0 lists but this is primarily due to said high skill In general, I nominally agree with Jack that it is mid I differ in that I think it is just below absolute middle, rather than slightly above ("upper half") Let's see what happens when the battletome comes out in a few months So far, this is a repeat of what happened with 10th 40k, imo (and that is not a compliment)
@@cmleibenguth Almost every army has been nerfed (except Lumineth and Kruleboyz...) and they've been nerfed more significantly than Stormcast When it all shakes out, I think Stormcast look pretty good!
We'll see. Until then (some tournament results and some more games), based on what I've seen (and that includes more than the order faction packs released today), I disagree emphatically. Some armies were nerfed (like SCE), some were changed (not really nerfed, just different), and others are virtually the same (no nerf or meaningful change). Kruleboyz and Ogors have had meaningful changes, and the former is the only army I can say that has been "buffed" since previous edition (but that's a low threshold given how bad they were before) Depending on how different (and in what way if different) the Battletome is from the faction pack for SCE, the problems with SCE will be exacerbated in a year when the Legends go away.
You might be underestimating the value of those stats. 3+ save base, weapons on 3+/3+/1… that’s gold. Minuses to hit are gonna murder the game, SCE can take it more than most. And the roster is wide enough to have a tool for everything. Which is not the case for many armies.
@@TheStormkeep I wish Stormcast got the generalist, we can do everything well design its supposed to have, that Lumineth actually has. If the Stormcast range was too big like everyone was so quick to say when they announced the squatting then why does the index without the supplement feel so much like half an army.
@@cmleibenguth I really think the impression of how much better Kruleboyz are is vastly overestimated. The scrolls are the same, the shooting is heavily nerfed. They got an allegiance ability now, that compensates their points going way up.
3:01:41 Reading the text on Power Through, it does say that you can “pass through” the enemy unit, as long as you do not engage a new unit. You can stay engaged with the original target, but you do not have to stay in combat
That's what everyone assumed it says, but if you read it again you'll see it says you can "pass through and end that move within the combat ranges of enemy units". You can only move through the combat range of enemies, not the enemy models.
The problem with bravery and battleshock etc is the CP/Strategems to let you auto pass. Get rid of that insane bravery crap and all of a sudden, you can be rewarded for setting up a big battleshock hit or play to add additional casualties to that one critical unit that just has to die this turn. 9th edition Night Lords stuff is a great example of having really flavorful negative leadership play only to have your opponent say "oh thats cool, but I dont care, all that means nothing after this one CP ill spend to auto pass". tl;dr, keep the flavorful game mechanics in, get rid of the immunities.
Even if you removed the immunity to battleshock losses, I don't think the mechanics of it were very good. It wasn't very fun losing 10+ models in a unit after 10 of them died, or having a Stormcast run away because one of them died.
