A MIND-BLOWING New Discovery About Messmer! | Elden Ring DLC Lore 

Man my mind is blown right now ! Didn't think someone as big as you would give his take on my video. I love your videos and really looking forward to hear your opinion.

That is actually a super compelling theory about how he wanted to burn the tree to start a new age of rebirth

Giant Sequoia trees have serotinous cones that require fire to allow them to open and release the seeds. Maybe the Erdtree requires fire to release its seeds, too.

ZIO WATCH THAT VIDEO IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS AT THE END PLEASE!!!! Dude theorized on the connection between Melina,Ranni,and the Gloam/Dusk Eyed Queen,and it helped me kinda connect it to the original death bird with the 2 heads,the crucible,and dragons and your "Mesmer burning tree incantation" made me realize they could be remnants of the last order before Merika

Maybe Melina and Messmer, are twins. The naming convention, starting with an "M", it's not related to who is the father. But instead to twins. Mohg and Morgott: Twins, from Godfrey Miquella anda Malenia: Twins, from Radagon Maybe Godfrey is not the first Elden Lord, and Marika had twins in the Land of Shadow. Messmer, demigod of war and rebirth, and Melina, the Gloom Eyed Queen, demigodess of Death. Maybe the reason that she is bodyless and with no memory, is because, together with Messmer, they burnt the Erdtree once, using her as kindling. Just a theory.

Messmer's second phase will be called "Messmer, The First Cardinal" and he's going to be a red winged drake with serpents heads burning your graceless ass.

One thing that came to mind watching this video is the relationship between the thrones of the Empyrians in Leyndell and those of the Greek Gods on Olympus. This also links Messmer and the underworld, because like Hades, Messmer and his throne reside in a place 'below' the others.

Nice! Thanks for platforming this brilliant smaller creator. He’s been pumping out some truly brilliant content. I’ve had several of his recent videos on my repeat cycle as I brainstorm lore 😂🤣

Messmer becoming a destroyer of vegitation through fire seems like a great corruption of his potential green thumb heroism

I also have a theory similar but it also includes Melina in the first burning of the Erdtree. I think Mesmer and her are twins like Miquella and Malenia, but in the land of shadow. Once the Erdtree was burned both were banished to shadowlands until Marika called for Melina again, which starts our journey with her and can explain why she has so much knowledge of what Marika said and historical events. Marika called for Melina because she’s the only one who knows how to burn it, because when we meet her she’s “burned and bodiless,” with prominent scaring from the first attempt.

Very interesting to think Messmer is basically Elden Ring's version of the Nameless King. Both potentially being Gods of War Partaking in something seen as heretical to the order (befriending dragons/snakes) Being banished for it then scrubbed from history but still having a small cult like following both fight with a spear weapon (which is usually associated with Gods of War like Odin)

The moment I read the words "makes the trees grow right" I got all the chills. I think he's absolutely on to something here. Do we know for certain Miquella's motivations in the Shadow Lands are antagonistic to Messmer? Not asking rhetorically, I'm trying to remember if it was explicitly stated somewhere. But Miquella was trying to grow his own tree. So isn't it possible he's seeking Messmer's aid or an alliance?

Great video. Loved the react-and-discuss format. But what is more amazing is the way this game's references are so deep. This makes a lot of people get into history, simbolism, deep discussions indeed. This is so good

MESsmer, MESopotamia Conspiracy confirmed

He’s gonna have two phases with two separate health bars and then after you beat him there is gonna be a cutscene of him turning into a dragon for his third phase.

6:10 “I researched Ningishzida and I was Messmer-ized….” 😏 I see what you did there. Something that comes to mind is Quetzalcoatl, the flying serpent god. The Asian countries of past called a flying serpent a dragon. Much different from the EU style dragon. Forgot where I was going with this… 😅

The Erdtree sap is referred to as amber. Sellen tells us that amber is remnants of ancient life. Perhaps this ancient life was beginning to influence the people who partook of the sap. Perhaps something was seeking resurrection. Perhaps Marika discovered this and forcibly ended the age of plenty before she became a puppet.

One thing that I just noticed replaying the game, is that Enia the fingerreader crone says burning the Erdtree is actually the FIRST cardinal sin. This implies both that there may be more than one (not necessarily if there has only ever been 1), and also that it was the very first grand action of sin against the Erdtree, signifying how early it happened.

You pointing out Melina's tree kind of points at a thought I have had which is that Messmer and Melina may very well be a duality like Marika and Radagon, 2 halves of the same whole. He ended the war in the land of shadow with cleansing fire, she helps you burn the erdtree; Both have a closed left eye, both have red hair which is symbolic of children of Marika and Radagon.

Would mesmer's symbol not be more similiar to the rod of Asclepius considering that it only has one snake?

I saw this video last week and it was really interesting. The two snakes in the statue also look similar to Kaathe and Frampt.

God bless you Ziostorm

10:26 Plot twist - the dragon will be riding Messmer.

i think the real life inspiration for mesmer. is vlad 3 of wallachia. a knight of the order of the dragon, son of the dragon (his father was also in the order), and the impaler.

What immediately jumps out as a hole in the theory to me is: if messmer is the only one who knew how to care for the tree and rhe tree had to grow in the land of shadows, then it wouldnt make much sense to banish him somewhere he could probably do the MOST damage to the tree. This could all be a clever switcharoo where messmer is actually a guardian of the root system and protector of the method of growing new trees so people like miquella cant plant/grow a usurper tree. Maybe messmer and marika forged a false history (because shes definitelya stranger to trickery), made the snake symbol, which is very clearly linked to him, a fake scapegoat to hide him away and diacourage investigating into messmer. Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain sort of thing. Either that or perhaps the first burning was an accident he caused by the inate power of the fire he wields and he was banished so that it couldnt happen again.

1:05 Or as Overly Sarcastic Production called him: Johnny Snake-Shoulders

this style of video in my opinion is really healthy for ur channel i really enjoyed it

The staff of moses reference is to a later point in exodus where they put a snake on a stick to cure poison if I remember correctly.

From Wiipedia: "Slash-and-burn agriculture is a farming method that involves the cutting and burning of plants in a forest or woodland to create a field called a swidden." "Slash-and-burn causes temporary deforestation. Ashes from the burnt trees help farmers by providing nutrients for the soil."

Almost think maybe Melina is the Erdtree, Marika did “birth her” it lost its purpose and was burned and lost its corporeal body

It's always a treat to see Zios. Man this guy is really on to something. Thats my favorite thing about the soulsbornering games, the community is sooooo passionate about the games and their world's lore. Theory crafting is some of the most fun shit ever, especially for uber-enigmas like Elden Ring. I've seen all the videos, read all the lore posts, I still don't know shit lmao Edit: with all this lore stuff in y'alls head, how the heck do you make room for new stuff? I learn messmer has a snake and forget my cat's name. Just remembered I don't have a cat....

all this mesmer lore mesmerizes me...

they expand upon previous themes in Elden Ring. I believe Messmer is Father Ariendel and Marika is Sister Friede, in terms of theme. so she used him to besically control and have power over his land but then when you kill Messmer it will release Marika from her stasis and then she will ambush us similar to Friede and she will be the final boss of the dlc. ❤

Messmer is probably the god that was flee that plaxidusax was waiting on but I still don't think he will be that big of impact in the dlc they never show the true villains in trailers

Zio in the flesh. Thanks for the content 👍

Saw this the other day! Glad you covered it!

One thing that came into my mind about Messmer being erased from history is that FS has done it before with the Nameless King. But even him was still remembered, we don't know his name but we knew since DS1 that he existed. Messmer is a different case, his treason was so big and unforgivable that we haven't got a single mention or clue about him until the trailer dropped

Messmer the Gardener

That video came up in my recommendations, really good!

Did you notice in the original Elden ring story trailer. Before the general is infected his eyes are already snake looking and golden like messers. Just something weird I noticed.

I think Messmer using the braid symbol helps connect him to Marika and her royal lineage, and the symbol appears prominently on Miquellan imagery (mostly soldier helmets)

I also think it should be mentioned that, Mesmer's eyes aren't dragon eyes, they're snake eyes

Wrong staff of moses. The staff mentioned here is the one with the bronze serpent, which still only has one serpent instead of two, but at least the staff of Moses looks more like Messmer's symbol than the two snake staffs.

Love this casual discussion type of video!

What's interesting about Ningishzida being a Mesopotamian god is that the archecture of the underground outside of the Eternal Cities (which appear to be built later) seems to be Mesopotamian in origin. Mesopotamia translates as "the land between two rivers" - the rivers being the Euphrates and the Tigris, which are parallels to the two underground rivers in Elden Ring. The clay tablet the underground giant man statues hold is literally just the irl "Babylonian Map of the World." The Socerer Rogier reveals to us there's a connection between the Eternal Cities and the numen, and we know we'll be visiting the land the numen came from in the DLC. Perhaps the numen, being an allegory for the Mesopotamians, worship Messemer, an allegory for a Mesopotamian god.

Idk what I thought ziostorm looked like IRL but I wouldn't have guessed this :o

Wow been watching for years now (mostly listening while working to be fair) and never seen a face cam. Lucky guy, face for video and a voice for radio.

The thing about the drake knight armor would be regular "tarnished" trying to replicate that. Its the armor worn by Eleonora, Violet Bloody Finger that we fight near the end of Yura's quest.

Yeah saw his Video too and that's so awesome!

I wonder how Mesmer's story interacts with the implication that the Erdtree was fertilized with the body of the previous god whom Placidusax served. It feels like Marika and Mesmer might have fought said deity together and stripped the corpse of the Elden Ring thereafter, or at least *most* of the Elden Ring, since it appears to have more runic circles in its eldest depictions, but I wonder if Mesmer suggested that a part of it be allowed to remain in the corpse in order to help the tree manifest in a divine form.

Sometimes I think those branches from Melina’s spell, and the Erdtree’s branches look more like how roots do

Yo check out David lightbringer, I think there's alot to be gained by cross examining grr Martin's work. As he played alot with old mythologies.

This Messmer-Marikas's son creates problem to timeline for that and many other theories. His red hair supposed to point he is son of Marika and Radagon, but their marriage and kids occurs only in the middle of the Worship of Erdtree era, when Godfrey was already banished. If Erdtree was burned before it must been in the end of age of Crucible/plenty, when Messmer not yet been born and Radagon wasn't even been around. Also we can theorise that Messmer was son of Godfrey with red hair, and Radagon was not in relation with him, but he hated his own red locks not because of fire giants association, but because of Messmer and his blasphemous deeds.

Messmer fights and wounds Marika after having set the erdtree on fire, therefor gets banished in one final act by his mother: Queen wounded and out of FP, Erdtree burning, and her god of war just banished would put the world in its most weakend and defenseless state... A perfect opportunity for the Elden Beast to take over.

It's always interesting when they tie character inspiration to real world myth, especially when it lead to learning of one I never heard of.

Nobody is talking about how Mesmer is the lanky peasant guy species just like Gostoc.

I think the braided circle might be his great rune shape

4:32 ive realised that sigil may be representing his parents marika and radagon as the fire may be inherited from radagons potential lineage to the giants and the right is as you said relating to marika with the pattern

I love how much Elden Ring has people talking and Philosophizing within the World Wide Web. And sir if you don't have a vocation in voice work I'd be shocked beyond belief. Looking forward to hearing more. Live long and prosper.

In the dlc the crusable and the beings born from it are considered godly or in some way blessed so marika being with an omen for example would explain messmers appearance and his flame simbol is simular to freanzy and like the god of freanzy messmer wants to burn the world to because its the only way to save it so maybe it has something to do with that and the simbol of freanzy maybe be was made like this because it reminded marika of her sons flame which is used for the same goal pretty much

This is so cool!! It makes perfect sense!

Off topic but behind the weird tombstone at the boss arena in Morne castle there are two trees entangled like in the land of shadow

Perhaps the insignia is referring to a break in the golden lineage and the frenzied flame. A separation, a point in time where they become distinct?

The staff of moses at mt nebo has one snake coiling around it.

Are we sure he has 2 snakes, or one snake with two heads, with one head in each end?

I thought it was interesting when you brought up Messmer's hand and the imagery of the roots growing before catching flame, it almost reminds me of the deep-root depths. How Godwyn's growth of the decaying roots have began to take over the space below the Ghost of the Erdtree, we see in the Lands between. I wonder if Godwyn, Mequilla, and Messmer will reveal the true plans for tarnished after the golden order. Or tie-in secrets between what was lost or tossed aside during the different ages of ruling within the new quests.

Also, the torch where you get the dragon communion speeds have lions on them

Dude! More videos like this plzzzz!!! 🔥🔥🔥

Mesopotamian Mythology is so slept on, would love to see more games take inspiration from it.

Very interesting. A lot of the theories do align, or at least seem very possible, with what we know about Messmer and Elden Ring. It will be interesting to see how much of this turns out to be accurate.

Perhaps the fire we use to burn the tree is Messmer flame. That would imply he is the fell god. Also the witches worshiping the fell god in the mountaintops have thorns covering their eyes, also thorns are all over the encampments they are found in. In the land of reeds round shield it depicts red thorns, keep that in mind. In the land of reeds helm it is stated that the land of reeds is stuck in a civil war, like the one mentioned in the trailer, if the roundshield and helm came from the land of shadows (their from the same set) then that would mean the red thorns are synonymous with the land of shadows. Eleanora wears drake armor, and her pole blade is said to be forged in the land of reeds. I love your content ❤

Hmm, perhaps his phase 2 dragon form is based off of the serpent that's curled around him. So not a normal dragon, but something more snakelike, with a head at either end. Kind of reminds me of the Duke's Dear Freja with the two heads. I noticed the boss arena shown in the trailer is fairly spacious, but still an enclosed space. It doesn't seem big enough for a traditional dragon fight, but also too big for just Messmer.

I could see some inspiration from nidhogg from norse mythology as its in charge of pruning the roots of yggdrasil.

I think the snakes come out of his shoulders where "wings" would normally be.

Messmer is a retcon and a repetition of the Solaire/nameless king debacle

What if the symbol depicting what looks like the frenzy flame icon and braids of marika icon being separated, is representing when the one great was “fractured” which lead to the crucible

Been following your channel a long time and never saw your face before 😮

If you look closely to the ouroboros symbol it looks pretty close to the ring on Miquella's hand in mohg's mausoleum

There is an enemy ( maybe several ) near the town of Liturgia In the consecrated snowfields that attacks you with a snake if he grabs you. its a small snake that comes from behind his back very similar to mesmers snakes. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. I guess most players never got grabbed so not many people see the animation. Anybody else ever see this? I've found the enemy on elden ring wiki, its a Rotten Duelist. He has a small snake wrapped around his right arm!!! His Axe's handle ends in a spiral similar to the pillars in mesmers arena too!

5:40 also I believe FromSoft takes visual designers on vacations to the places where the new games will be based on so they can get a bunch of inspiration

Hey remember those statues holding a very large needle in the Hailegree? Doesn't the art in Messmer's crest have semblance of that?

I was aware of another who had snake shoulders, King Zahhak, but this serpent-god is much more convincing

I think there may be a connection to Messmer and the Cruicible after watching this. After all, its "Messmer's flame" and we have "the Cruicible," and a cruicible is meant to be used with a flame. And with the part about the "lord of the trees" thing, I think theres something to it

The symbol that is in game that looks like the Caduceus seems like a division between ages, for. The staff in the middle is the change of ages, from the dragons, on the first symbol, to the golden order on the second. But where does the land of shadow fit in it?

Woahhhh that was a quick “alright what’s goin on guys” 😂

I think the meet Death in the embrace of Messmer's flame will have to do with Godwyn's death tree on fire, we only fight dream version of Fortisaax rite? I wonder if Messmer is like Lorian in the sense that he carries some brothers curse and fought something that burned into their weapon. Also the dude with no legs and a giant dagger in his head reminds me of a shaved version of the elden john statues. Their legs don't look the strongest and near the cocoon there are no legs, it looks like its floating with roots or something growing from it. There is also a strong collapsed theme near most of the statues, but the part that gets me the most is the mimic fight area. Theres a statue missing its upper half, in a place you confront your other self, in a place that is like a meeting ground between underworld and overworld. To be honest, it looks like a place you'd get married. I think the path you take to get there is the same path someone else took to get there at some point, and ive noticed St. Trina's lillys like to lead toward dark areas like caves and nokron, but Miquella's lillys can be found in similar places but with a slight different theme, incubating near poison, the easiest place to see it is the lake near abbandoned coffins grace. In the center of the lake are big miranda blossoms that grows children from themselves, similar to a tree dropping seeds. On one side of the lake are scientists experimenting on and watching flowers grow including miquella's lillys surrounded by poison miranda's, waiting in the shadow of a cliff. On the opposite side of the lake, are Trina's lillys leading to a necromancer that fused his wife and children into a weapon. Trina at some point, might have gone down the mistwood well and never came back, meanwhile people cant agree whether Miquella was a boy or girl. I think the old dude, trina and miquella got mixed up, perhaps literally. And if anyone has played armored core 6 and saw the third ending, Mohgwyn mausoleum might make more sense, with stars hanging around a big explosion. It will add to the context of "stars contain residual life" and "vitality of the gods". Could just cheat and watch the ending on YT, but youd skimp yourself of how you feel at the end of the game from 3 different perspectives.

Hi Zio! Thank you for the video! :) I recently watched the "Lore of the Dragons" from VaatiVidya, and combined with yours I had a theory: maybe Messmer is the son of Marika and a dragon. The dragon could be Placidusax, as consort and Elden Lord. And Marika could be the god who left the dragons. And maybe again (I reached and reached as you can tell), the Ancient Dragons went to war against Lyendell to get back at Marika and Messmer or to take them back or something. Just a thought! Also, Messmer's name reminds me a lot of the word "mesmerize" (word that I think is associated to snakes in some way) and I found out that it comes from "the doctrine that one person can exercise influence over the will and nervous system of another and produce certain phenomena by virtue of a supposed emanation called animal magnetism," ("mesmerism" from Franz Mesmer). And that Franz Mesmer worked with a guy who changed his surname to Hell and who had an interest in astronomy and worked on magnet therapy, which are things we see a lot in Elden Ring. Although it's a lot of leaps and all, I thought it was interesting to keep in mind because of the themes. Furthermore, and there I'm going to reach a lot again, I found out that "mesmerism" is a concept very close to "hypnotism" and that the latter was sometimes called "braidism" (because James Braid was a pioneer of that concept and people wrongly attributed the concept to him) and that he was a significant innovator in the treatment of spinal curvature (among other things). Here again lots of leaps but spinal curvature and "braidism" remind me of themes and imagery we have in Elden Ring. So. That's that. To be fair, my point is etymology is worth investigating I believe. When you take a look at Placidusax's name, well Placid means "gentle, quiet, undisturbed, serene, calm," 1620s, from French placide (15c.) and directly from Latin placidus "pleasing, peaceful, quiet, gentle, still, calm," from placere "to please", and I think it can say a lot about the Dragon Elden Lord and what we see of him.

I've compared Godfrey to Marduk, patron god wedded to the fertility goddess Sarpanit. Also has a avatar or association with a dragon called Sirrush, almost spelled the same as Godfrey's beast Serosh.maybe there is quite a few more comparisons to Sumerian myths we can make.

the unaltered banished knight armor/helmet looks more like messmer than the drake knight its has a very similar red cloth what if he was possibly in charge of the banished knights originally

really like the idea that the Erdtree had been burned before, whether by Messmer or not, as (idk if this has already been brought up in a different context, plus i haven't finished the video) Melina has what looks like burn scars on her hands/arms, and since many people theorize that Marika is her mother, perhaps she could've been there for that first burning of the Erdtree by Messmer? After all, we know that she is like bodiless or whatever (she mentions something about it in a dialogue) and that she doesn't really remember anything other than being given her purpose by her mother in the Erdtree, so maybe she was killed in that original burning, and bc life/death/rebirth themes being so significant, she came back and was given that purpose of guiding the Tarnished much like how the Tarnished where dead and then returned with the purpose of becoming Elden Lord. Anyways, regardless, Messmer is lowkey fine.

Let him cook. The bald bearded reference made me think of the statues all over Uhl and Uld palaces.

The Golden lineage has this weird recurring twisting circle symbol. Messmer has dragon symbolism. Combine the image of a circle and a dragon, and you get the oroboros cycle. The circle symbolises the eternal life and "prosperity" through Marika's rule, while Messmer's dragon symbolises death and annihilation. The Lands Between and the Lands of Shadow may each thematically resemble one half of the cyclical nature of a balanced world

You know, I always thought dragon communion was too disconnected from the coexistence of dragons in the Golden order and how the leyendel nights share in dragon incantations

Here’s an addition. Not significant but cool. The worship of the snake god was centered in Enegi. Eingyi is in Dark Souls, and the voice actor also voices the twin snakes. Eingyi is also a pyromancer like Messmer.

Serpents can represent knowledge as Hermes who had the Caduceus and Thoth the Egyptian god of knowledge were interchangeable by certain ancient civilizations. Taking Robert Jordan’s mythology from wheel of time and how he blends so many together, I think Messmer may have given knowledge he wasn’t supposed to. He possibly introduced Blasphemies to the Lands Between and was brandished. Just like Vyke sought the Frienzied Flame Miquella May have sought messmer. I have not seen a flame of frenzy aspect of Messmer unless I missed it so he may be knowledgeable of every outer god and know which ones not to associate with. Damn I love myth theory.

I could also see Merika keeping messmer in her back pocket as a back up plan. If the theory of him being her God of war during her Ascension is true. He would be a very convenient person for her to keep out of the politics of the land between until she needed him again.

You should do more Elden ring lore react videos. No one else is really doing this

messmer becoming a dragon hydra like placidusax would bring me to climax

Im not sure if anyone has brought this up already but i wonder if becoming the frenzied flame will effect anything in the dlc. Would be cool if they implemented something like that

It's easy to digest once you notice that all forms of fire are considered taboo in the Lands Between.