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@@gezenews Shiv did not give Tom the opportunity to ask "who's the father?" She cut him off at the pass by telling him immediately that he is going to be a father. It was to leave him question was she really sleeping around. Her statement of paternity was very quick and decisive as she knew it could not be anyone else.
Tom being completely detached of emotion towards shiv is legit what happens to people when they’ve had enough of someone’s bs that they spent years caring for
1:30 you can tell Tom is about to slip into his naturally caring personality and is about to get happy and excited but in that split second his brain remembers all the times he’s felt like this, and shown that side of Shiv only to be destroyed. So this time, he catches himself in the moment, and instead decides to look after himself first.
@@BatmanHQYT I thought his eyes dropped to look at her abdomen because she just told him she was pregnant. He knew it was true. He was intimate with her he knew there were changes in her body, but you don't bring that up...gee honey are you gaining weight? HAHAHA when she said I'm pregnant it all made sense to him. I certainly agree with your assessment that MM is an incredible actor!
The subtle shift on Matthew Macfadyen's face when Shiv drops the pregnancy bomb is so good. I love how Tom's so done with Shiv's crap that he doesn't even believe her.
i think it does hit him, because he did really want tohave a baby with her prison or not, but still he has doubts, or he just doesn’t want to let his guard down anymore. he is also maybe very tired/on coke. that said, it was still pretty awful how he responded. but understandable, goven prior events. it’s just a never ending cycle of trauma and abuse.
@Monica Alexandru he did tell her she was a horrible person and was glad they didnt have a baby the episode before. This is the first show that I've watched where none of the people are worth rooting for but the show is very compelling. Tom never recovered from the wedding night issue.
I think he's just high through the roof XD that sniff kicked hard... But yeah, also he's done with Shiv and that pregnancy bomb... Man's a shithead but he's also constantly stressed 😬
Tom being on coke made this hilarious. He had zero patience for the feelings and was just focused on one thing. He was full killer and the scene when he says to shiv seemed a little unhinged I spit up water
He believes her, but then he goes into defense mode just to be sure he’s not being played again. Shiv’s incredulous reaction confirms she’s really having his baby and he’s too stunned to move. Incredible acting. Shiv brought this on herself.
You know, Shiv definitively told Tom that she was pregnant by him. In order for her to say that with such authority, Tom might realize that Shiv may not have been sleeping around as she lead him to believe. She seems to go ballistic at Tom's purported dating models and he and Greg's "disgusting brothers" act.
Tom knew she was sleeping around. She told him about the actor. The problem is that Shiv is incredibly self-absorbed and selfish. Which is why even though she's the one who proposes an open marriage, she still gets upset at the idea of Greg capitalizing on it. @@annkey4091
Sarah Snook’s reaction right before she says “um, okay” and walks off was perfect. You can see the pang of hurt, her impulse to say something and how she changes her mind. Then she starts to say something else with the “um.” Changes her mind again and decides that the best course of action is to leave. So specific and she makes it work seamlessly. This is Snook’s season. She’s getting that Emmy
@@Upsallauniversity123 Yeah, and you're obviously the definition of impartial. If you think the competition is weak this awards season you're clearly not watching many other shows. Either that or you don't know what impressive acting is which wouldn't be all that shocking considering you thought Snook's reaction at the end of the scene was "normal in acting." A clear tell that you've never done any serious acting in your life. Maybe you've been on a school stage once or twice, got cast in a student film? And no one had the heart to crush your incredibly inflated ego by telling you that despite your hubris, you can't make informed choices to save your life. Your characters aren't all that believable, and you can't cross the threshold into making them anything other than two dimensional dullards because you have such a poor sense of the world around you and an even poorer sense of self that you have nothing to draw from. OR, even worse, you've never acted before in your life and you're so arrogant that you think your uninformed opinion is the end all and be all of what great acting is. It's kind of comical to think about because I'm almost 100% certain you're the latter. But I'm open to being surprised. Lastly, Matthew Macfayden is brilliant here. By highlighting one actor I'm not diminishing the other. It's difficult to fathom how small minded someone has to be that they need clarification on that front. But here you are, representing for all of the mind-numbingly dense people in the world. And when angry pea-brained people want to divert their focus from the screaming emptiness inside of them they turn to bigotry and directing their hatred outwards so of course you're a misogynist too. I can expand on that more if you'd like when you come up with a response that's actually worth my time. Thought I'd grant you with this first one what with you begging for attention like a child. Replying four times under my comment lol. Was my response everything you hoped for?
What’s funny is she was going to apologize, and he’s skeptical but listens, and then she immediately pivots into asking for a favor and that’s when he goes ‘uh huh’ and just tears her down
@@jtgd she literally just tried to manipulate tom to doing her a favor..but apologizing then immediately using her dead father an her unborn child as a pawn/ploy..i’m sorry but Yikes what does she expect..especially when he knows she’s playing both sides Annnnndd what she said to dude yesterday etc.. at this point she playing games.. an Tom is TIRED!
I don't think that's what was happening, I suspect Shiv specifically wanted Tom to retract his comment about her being a bad mother before telling him she's pregnant
Love how Shiv tried to manipulate Tom and he didn't bite and how he no longer believes anything she says and she broke his heart to the point of no return.
Shiv has a hard time accepting that what she does to Tom has consequences. The funny thing is that shortly after this scene she goes to her brothers and basically tells them to get rid of Tom because he's not trustworthy. Something I'm sure she'll later try to apologize for soon afterwards. It's the same dynamic at play when she realizes that Greg knows about her, rather than offer him a deal, she tries to threaten him, only for him to spill the beans as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
Shiv’s become Kendall in season 3, even parallels the scene where Kendall doesn’t buy Greg a damn $20k watch and then Greg joins Logan the episode after. Greg’s loyalty is important enough in these times. Throwback to season 2, Kendall actually defends Greg on the yacht and Greg then helps Kendall burn Logan with documents.
@@TheSaladin777 That’s an excellent point! Greg is transactional, shallow and manipulative, but he’s loyal to those who help him. This very episode, he tells Shiv something like, “If silence is golden, where’s the gold,” only to have her threaten him instead. In this family, Greg actually makes the right decision more often than even Tom does
Shiv’s thinking that she’s better and smarter than everyone bites her in the ass all the time and she never learns. It’s actually funny at times. She doesn’t see the consequences before she makes decisions. Like threatening Greg rather than offering him a deal for his silence.
I still do not know why Tom does not potentially consider himself as toast at anytime. I actually thought that through Shiv, Waystar Royco was offered the higher price by Matsson. Come what may, I think that Shiv was going to get screwed by the men in her orbit. Can someone help me out? I thought I remember a minor line from Gerri to Shiv about sticking with her husband. It could have been season 1 or 2.
Shiv just absolutely cannot truly admit that she’s not right in any given situation. Rhea was right all that time ago, she really does think she’s smarter than she actually is.
@@willtoflowerhe warned her in episode 6 don't play both side honey. She always hides secret from tom. In previous episodes she tells about nate and tom before they came to their house. She could tell him during sexting or via call. She is most selfish charcter on this show 😂😂
I feel like if Shiv lying about being pregnant was actually used as a tactic for something Waystar related or to get them out of a scrape Logan would be well impressed. "Great strategy, Pinkie." Lmao.
Shiv really did deserve this reaction. She wasn't being sincere at all in her apology and she only told Tom that she's pregnant to get him on her side.
@@lisboay8086 it’s not black and white. In this case we’ve been shown multiple times how he really has (had) feelings for her. But ofc it’s not the only reason
@@Joe-ks3lk i never said he didn’t have feelings for her. they both have them for eachother in their own messed up ways. but he was wilfully blind to her worst traits and there’s no point pretending it’s not cause of her name and the life she offered him. their love is very transactional but they doesn’t make it any less real, they’re just transactional people in general
@@lisboay8086 yeah, don’t get me wrong, I agree with you. Anything in the show is transactional up to some point, never solely relied on feelings and love. I was pointing out how, among all the other self-interested relations, this one is one of the few where someone actually had sincere feelings of love. On the other end, Shiv never really loved Tom; and not talking just about the monogamy thing.
Macfadyen’s ever so subtle change of expression when he finds out is just ridiculously good acting. He was about to ask “it’s mine?” But he stops himself and questions the truth of the statement entirely.
Shiv is so damaged, all her relationships are doomed to be power struggles. As soon as Tom is done with her all of a sudden she's chasing him then when Tom turns towards her she turns away. Just watching is exhausting, she's destined to be miserable and lonely.
It struck me that mostly all of the women in this show are miserable. I see very few smiles from women about anything or anyone --- from Shiv, Lady Caroline to Matsson's Ebba.
@@annkey4091 Shiv smiles a lot but it's more like a grimace or a wooden smile to mask her feelings about stuff most of the time. But yeah Marcia, Ebba, Caroline etc outside of interacting with a few people they really like aren't exactly rays of sunshine.
The other significance of this scene, beyond what it means for Shiv and Tom, is that they finally brought up the fact that Logan's kids did indeed hate him. I feel like the pure, unbridled grief of the last few episodes is sort of a "calm before the storm" - the kids are still reeling from his loss that they haven't yet contended with how they actually felt about him, except maybe Kendall. They've hinted at this before with Kendall's "he made me hate him, and he died", and Roman's childlike reaction to Matsson calling Logan a prick (which is not just true but putting it lightly).
After everything Shiv put Tom through I don’t blame him for not believing her about being pregnant. In the last episode they had that huge fight out on the balcony, where she told him “I don’t like you” and “you don’t deserve me.” And she picks that moment to tell him. I’m glad Tom is not falling for Shiv’s crap anymore. He had this look that says “No. We’re not doing this. I’m not playing your stupid games anymore.”
exactly she’s blatantly trying to manipulate him.. trying to apologize then ask for a favor then she brings up her dead dad as a cop out.That doesn’t work so then she brings up the pregnancy like it’s a bargaining chip 🤯😩
Jeeze I forgot that argument was literally last night, he even said to her that she's the kind of person that shouldn't have kids so wtf did she think his reaction would be like lol
In my opinion, it seems like after she tells him, he's trying to hold back a smile (which yes could be bc he finds her ridiculous), but also when I first watched it it seemed like he was thrilled, bc obviously he's the one who has wanted a baby with her for so long. But he doesn't want to get too excited and get hurt over it, which is why he wants to see if she's playing him or not.
Shiv put herself in the position where she lacks credibility even with something as serious as being pregnant. Snook’s facial expressions are outstanding in this scene. Hate Shiv, but love Snook.
Shiv's face when it hit her Tom didn't even believe her. There's been so much shit, that he doesn't even believe what she's saying, even with something as important this, and the conversation just crashed down from there. Everyone is just suffering the consequences of their actions, the last two episodes are going to be incredible.
@@gezenews exactly classic shiv trying to manipulate .. he’s up on all her tricks an now what’s worse is he’s Tired! All throughout season 2-3 she was lied an lied an gaslit him.. how many times did she say 1 thing then do another but tom seen thru the plots an caught her most those times he just ain’t let her know half the time she was being sneaking he was on to her an watching.. IF she only knew how many times tom has seen her doing super sketchy sh!t she wouldn’t have tried him like that..she been made shady lately Especially after she called tom “subservient” etc now she wants him to jump to do her bidding like he forgot she called him a b!txh among other things…Bruh certain things you say to a man don’t go away they sunk in his mind an spirit..he won’t constantly bring it up but what he will put up with from a chick gets shorter and shorter. till he explodes.
God I wanted to root for Shiv so bad because I thought she could (should?) be the dark horse - but she continuously is making it harder and harder for me to do so.
I know what you mean. There is this side of me that always thought if Shiv won this corporate sweepstakes, her husband had to be with her. She was never in a position to go it alone. Being thick headed, she never got through to her that the men were not going to let her win.
@@annkey4091 i see that narrative that you are trying to push an all i can do is 😂😂😂😂 Are you serious?! shiv is green(inexperienced AF)& emotional.. do you not see how often she tries to make plays/plans an how often she FUMBLES!! you can’t be serious🤣🤣 just this episode alone she f**ked herself out of position.. an it was totally her own actions that led to it.. She lied to Ken about something so easy to fact check, Also threatens greg not trying to give something to get something..which is a tactic both brothers logan & tom employ. She just not as competent/intelligent as she thinks she is that has always been her weakness she thinks she’s smarter then she is that how Rhea played her like a fiddle.. smh then she got butthurt an tried to get back at her but couldn’t even do it fr..
Shiv telling Tom of her pregnancy at this time was a tactic. I am not sure that he believes her. However, I thought that when Shiv told Tom, the opportunity would be strategic. I did not consider this moment as strategic, but Shiv did. Tom is really hitting the pregnant woman below the belt. He let Shiv know that he is carrying a verbal saber ---- he let her have it where she did not anticipate ----- Logan's death and her baby announcement. It was continuation of Tom's beatdown of Shiv from the Tailgate Party. UPDATE to my thoughts: A strategic time for Shiv to tell Tom that she was pregnant would have been during their fight at the election party. She could have told him right after he told her that "she was incapable of love and, perhaps, she should not have children." Right after she told him, she should have returned to her party guests and left Tom on the balcony with something to chew on other than unappetizing sliders. The mark of true Scorpion!
It reminds me of when Tom proposed to Shiv. Logan was in the hospital. He chose the most stressful moment to pop the question. And she posed the most stressful moment to tell him she is pregnant.
@@gezenews yeah i think it was genuine but he also knew shiv was kinda flaky and not super into him, not as much as he was into her. so he saw an opportunity to lock her down and took it. tbf tho there is a scene waaaay later when he asks shiv "is this real? what we have? is real?" i cant place exactly when it happened. i just remember the scene. and shiv said yeah. so kind of her fault to keep going w the BS if she wasnt in love w tom and was gonna cheat anyways. Shiv also chose to tell him she wanted an open marriage...in his damn wedding day. so she also pulled this trick in that moment too. Toxic duo fs.
@@gezenews calm down, i agree agree. i was just comparing that tom did used her, but to a far lesser degree than her and used the stunt of proposing to her when she was at her weakest once. while shiv did it multiple times. Shiv is FAR worst than tom, but we all know tom aint a saint neither. he loves shiv surely, but he is also well aware that he can use her to get to the top.
The great thjng about this scene is that we understand WHY Tom would refuse to believe Shiv being pregnant even though it's true. She has been lying to and gaslighting him almost the entire show, using everything as a weapon in her arsenal, just to come out on top and keep Tom down. She really is Logan's daughter.
She intended to manipulate him into giving the call to Jimenez. But Tom doesn't care anymore. She burned every bridge they had. The response is so real "is that even true?". After all the games they played ,he doesn't know anymore what is true and what isn't.
Shiv is perhaps my favorite character on the show, and she's the one i rooted to win. Honestly even though Tom won on paper, I think Shiv got a lot in the end too, including an opportunity to fight and regroup even stronger for another day. she always meant well, but her privilege and spoiled-nature would always get in the way of her success.
I was rooting for Shiv to win also. BUT, I felt that she could not do the job without Tom, who had to handle the heavy lifting. In the end, Tom was the best suited for what Matsson wanted. For that matter, Logan, too, had he lived.
Ever since the episode with the wake thing at Logan’s home where she falls, she reminds me of someone I used to be friends with. Manipulative and will be proud of being manipulative, but then will act like she’s not when it’s convenient.
Tom offered to go. Shiv begged her Logan to not offer up Tom. His volunteering for prison was part of his strategy, which did not include his wife making it.
@@saturdaysequalsyouth I believe it was during the yacht scene, when his name came up. She appeared to be in with the suggestion, then later, without Tom knowing it asked Logan to not send Tom, which he didn't. Kendall got the nod. After Kendall backed out, on TV, Tom then told Shiv that he would handle it and offered himself (all back in New York).
@@annkey4091 I see. So the question is, why would a woman recommend her new husband for prison, even one time? Also, he approached her about this problem before the yacht scene and she wasn't interested.
@@saturdaysequalsyouth Having just watched Episode 10 of season 2 again, I really don't think that Shiv was seriously offering up Tom on the yacht as a prison candidate.. If you had watched Tom's testimony during the Congressional hearings, Waystar|RoyCo would have been foolish to offer him. Yes, he destroyed documents, but other than that, Tom Wambsgan really could offer nothing. Tom came across as a front and he obviously got his position based on his marriage. In fact, to give Shiv some credit which many people seem very reluctant to do, I think she recognized that shareholders might question the judgment of the company leadership, which Stewy and Sandy meant to disrupt, unseat, etc. Shiv may have offered Tom in jest until she realized that others on the yacht were serious about his vulnerable position. She then went to Logan.
Hi. I'm sure folks brighter in technology will give you great answers, but in the past I have taken a video( on my phone) of the scene on television I wanted to capture.
I think all succession characters are horrible😅 but i feel like shiv was using this news to gain some leverage against tom. Why couldnt she tell him when they were all good before? She always has an ulterior motive
As the show went on, I definitely grew a soft spot for Tom, just due to how horrible and awful Shiv is. I clapped every time she made the wrong call and Logan roasted her ass
I must be naive. I thought when she apologized and said and to give you an opportunity to re I thought she meant she was hoping he would respond the same saying he didn't mean some of what he said also......but he just slammed the door shut with the rest of his comments...is he done? Maybe but with those two who knows? They are both out no matter what happens with the GOJo deal. Mattson has promised nothing and she is getting kicked to the curb if he wins and she is certainly out if Kendal or Roman stay in power. I'm still hoping they go to New Zealand and become sheep farmers and teach scuba diving. They should have done that when Tom suggested it in the first season...they might be a lot happier right now if they had. Can't wait to see the last two episodes.
"I can't do it to that." He was listening yet he wasn't reacting in the way she liked. At first, I thought this apology genuine since circumstances are busy for the both of them and this was how they caught each other until she said that. This indeed was another manipulation that was "supposed to" go in the way she imagined and it didn't. I'm sure Shiv also wanted to tell Tom genuinely about the life they created but she kept that a secret in her pocket until THIS particular extra important circumstance to reveal. Girl, bye. She about to earn that single motherhood.
@@Nicebitoftucka like the image of the boss yelling at the father, the father yelling at the mom, mom yelling at the child and the child yelling at the cat.
It's easy to think Shiv's reaction is of pain and I'm sure some part of it is as I'm sure it'd hurt to tell someone of your pregnancy and they doubt its truth, but in the end, Tom didn't react the way she "planned" so this was essentially a tantrum. This was a move for Election Night.
Haha the fact that she was using her pregnancy to protect herself (considering the precise timing of her telling it) and that Tom completely saw through it was amazing. Tom is no naive easy-to-manipulate puppy anymore, he's turned into a stone cold killer.
The way Matthew reacts with I-i-Is that even true? Cause he doesn't say like "Is it mine?" but you can tell he was about to say it. And he says it without saying it. This whole show had such amazing talent.
Since Season 1 I have been rooting for Shiv because she had a disadvantage being born a girl. However as the show is rapidly approaching its ending I don’t think she can recover.
He says that because he is speaking to her specifically; it was meant to verbally and emotionally sting her and throw her off guard. Shiv accused Tom, at their Tailgate Party eruption, of cutting her off from her Father for the last six months of his life. He is implying she cut herself off from Logan through her actions at the end of Season 3. Shiv is Logan's only daughter, his youngest child and probably his favorite.
