long talk, i know, but listen anyways Music from VA-11 Hall-A Watch me on Twitch! I stream in the afternoons on weekdays: / hotashi Follow me on Twitter! / hotashis
As someone who mostly only plays with friends but is consistently on the game and owns all 3 fighter passes, they're all fun though. They're all viable at a casual level, maybe not at a higher tier, but they're all absurdly fun and I've enjoyed every new addition regardless of their initial strength. I don't regret a single dime spent on dlc
I agree except for Elphelt. I don't think she is fun to play as of against, specially when you compare with Xrd Elphelt, that ok, could be hell on earth to fight but at least I feel she was a more "complete" character
@@Murakami2077 Y'know, that's completely valid. I actually agree, plus XRD's Elphelt had a lot more in terms of a kit. Where I think Strive makes up for it is in her actual character and not her move list, because the "Idol" gimmick does wonders for a fighter people frankly didn't like. Tbh she annoyed the hell outta me in early GG renditions, and she may be still annoying to fight, but at the very least I can appreciate her character for the attempt. She's not fun like how Bedman, Goldlewis or Chaos, etc. is- she's fun in the same sense as Baiken or Sol where she's just a "turn-your-brain-off" type character with light combos and a simple strategy, and that can be nice sometimes
I realized this long ago, and honestly characters being released weak and then buffed is only a problem due to patch speed. Works for the game as a whole, but characters taking 6 months to a year to ACTUALLY become playable really sucks. Doubly so when half the time characters are left untouched in their first balance patch. It just doesn't take people a full year to figure out a character is bad anymore.
Sure, it doesn't take long to figure out a character is bad. But it DOES take time to figure out what to change to make them "balanced" without breaking a character. Even just changing one move could have a domino effect with unintended consequences. And now in season 3, it means they need to make these dedicated assessment for 27 characters.
The only reason Asuka isnt as weak as the rest of the other DLCs is because they knew the character was so hard to play that if he was weak on top of it nobody would even dare to try him out
@@finallyanime tc1 serves it's purpose as a starting deck that only beginners should stay in, it's tc2 that really needs a buff, it just simply doesn't synergize well with the character. I would probably create an extra card that casts a cube from the opposite side of Asuka (since tc2 is for mix-ups) and slightly buff the support cards.
@@sp1r1t_d1tchtest case 2 is actually pretty useful since mana regen got nerfed. if you’re good enough at cycling you can quickly pull mana exchange and then immediately tc3 and full order. It’s really hard to use tho
@@Calhasnopals My gut instinct is "oh they could bump it up to 4f startup or something" but honestly I'm extremely leery of it being touched, she gets *huge* reward off of it and it wouldn't take much to make it broken. I agree that it feels pretty stinky as is unless your opponent is being super predictable, just don't want it to swing too far in the other direction lol
I had been feeling this way since Bridget. Ever since HC, almost every character has been either mid tier or trash. I suspected it with Baiken but Sin just confirmed it to me. They are purposely making these characters underwhelming until a later patch bringing them up. While I appreciate the concern but when the top characters has mostly been the same, any new character that shake things up was desired leading to excitement into very quickly becoming underwhelmed by them.
I think you also have to consider that people who actively engage with the competitive side of the game are not the only target audience for DLC. There's a pretty big pool of casual players who dont even know/care about patch notes. They just wanna play characters they like and will never notice some of these strength differences.
@@valeoncat13 You think they don't notice being consistently steam rolled unless they use a specific character? FG players are more niche, they're gonna notice obvious balance disturbances when they attempt to play and just "explode".
I think part of the reason they hold back on dlc characters is not just to make sure they dont have another HC. But it sets an environment of "pay to win". Imagine Slayer coming out, being easily top 1. That would send a message to players that they need to pay to win.
As a casual who this probably doesn't apply to, all I can say is this: A.B.A is fun. If a character is fun and can do some stuff, then that's fine. An op character on launch is fun for your first to 10 with your buddies. A weak character that has nothing (Bedman? in my experience) is going to be forgotten before they get buffed. A.B.A being fun and her jealousy mode being as strong as it is will at least keep her on people's minds for when/if she gets buffed.
And she fills a unique play style also, there's not really another character like her. when Sin was bad on launch everyone got bored of him within a day because it was clear you might as well just play Sol or Ky.
Tbh it wasn’t even S2, it was Testament. Released with strictly-worse versions of tools other characters just had for free. That said, I think it’s better for the game to release a character undertuned and bring up what should be strong than being overwhelmingly strong and the devs just blind fire trying to put out fires.
I really hope once Season 4 comes around, they actually fix this. It feels to bad to have all these interesting characters that are just awful. Bedman especially, it's been almost a full year and he's still just bad
Its better than having another HC situation. Having your game be labeled pay-to-win is a death sentence to your game. Strive very nearly didn't survive HC.
@@matrix3509 While that is true, release Bedman legit was just jank and should not have been released at all. His best combo from 2P? 2P>2P He had basically no oki, except for the corner, below average damage, could have been challenged on everything and more. No neutral, terrible 6P, no good blockstrings, 236P (air-version) after three times gave you danger and fourth was negative penalty. His frame data was awful, his hitboxes are still mid, and his hurtboxes are probably the worst in the game. I wrote a complete rundown on why he was awful, but me getting release Bedman? to floor10 was possibly the biggest achievement I have ever done. And I have 100% completed the Yakuza series and multiple Final Fantasies. Game should have me rewarded for that one…
@@RockBottom7626eventually GGST is gonna be in its final season and a final balance patch is gonna drop and someone's character is gonna be left behind. So I do think there is some danger in resting your enjoyment on the hope of a character getting "fixed". People who main low-tiers in older games, are probably some of the most interesting players in this regard. They cannot rely on patches anymore and still have the drive to play.
If you play older games you just play because you enjoy a character despite its flaws I wish i could give +r johnny some buffs but honestly i would be more than happy if the game never got changed at all anymore
I still feel bad about Zato. 6.25 seconds spent recharging Eddie. Goldlewis can pop lvl3 Thunderbird faster than that and it's crazy to me. (and I main GL)
Happy chaos was a factor that really made me question whether or not I wanted to continue playing the game. Especially with how bad my characters matchups were to him. Combine that with horrible match making system i kinda just stopped unfortunately. Edit: lmao right as I finish typing this hotashi says that you have a weak personality to someone who said that in chat.
I thought I was going crazy when I realized this lol. I agree that characters being trash on release is good competitively, but as a Jim who plays on weekends it sucks getting all hyped for a new toy and then having it suck for 6 months
Excellent taste with the Valhalla music Also always have appreciated these videos from you. The perspective is really interesting, and a lot of points make me rethink how I look at stuff for this game
25:39 a true GG bro. Yeah this series is my childhood. I'm just happy to have ABA back after playing Isuka so much of my childhood, and I'll feel the same about Slayer. I like seeing people do what they can with these characters, even if just as a project till there's buffs too. I love Guilty Gear more than any tier list.
I agree. It's better to put the character nerfed, then buff them back to how they were meant to be, or close if the original was too strong. My problem is that it takes too long for them to update, and this makes people tired of not being able to have any good matches because the character they like is below average.
Very glad you mentioned the parry, made me feel like I was going insane trying to use it today... like knowing exactly when my friend was gonna to do stuff and getting countered because I tried to parry it suckkkksssssss
If you say "the character will get better", how much time are you supposed to wait? The devs won't change a new character until the second balance patch after their release... Sin only became relevant 9 months after he came out, when Season 3 began.
I mean Bridget would probably be the most famous GG character RN and they're barely keeping her on the map. I know it's there's a lot of "conspiracy" behind why some characters refuse to get nerfed, but honestly at the end of the day I think they're just out of touch. Leffen talked to the devs at ArcSys world tour and they basically told him they were just gonna make the deflect shield input hard to misinput and maybe change white wild assault. They didn't even see characters like Testament or Johnny needing help LMAO. I'm not trying to shit on ArcSys, but usually most FG devs don't play the game or understand it like top players and because they refuse to consult them their decisions are really bad sometimes.
@@HotaruLikesDagashi I mean it is really that hard to believe that the devs have preferences for what characters they want to be strong, and what characters they want to be weak? Why's it gotta be some stupid conspiracy?
They realized nobody watches the story mode in full so they just made HC knock balance philosophy off the beaten path so his personality and power reaches the non-watchers....
I’ve gotta agree, I’m only floor 4-5 but regardless of her being bad I’m having a blast playing her. The one time I wasn’t having fun was vs an Axl, tht shit sucked
Yeah I'd definitely say this model (?) is a lot better overall. Does it NOT shake up stuff at top level? Absolutely But either way, Johnny can suck as much ass as he wants and he's still 50% of the matches I'm getting in Celestial. Ultimately ArcSys are more crowd pleasers than anything else, so as long as there is something fun *enough* in these characters kits while avoiding the HC situation, they're happy. Hell, I'll bet that Elphelt is in a PARTICULARLY sad state because she THEORETICALLY has tools to become and HC level problem, but since she's a post HC character AND doesn't have to manage 2 resources, they knee capped her so hard her legs are gone.
It's okay because at least she's fun to use, great ways to combo and amazing setups. Normal mode sucks but that's been the case for decades now. They could change her counter frame data and maybe make K super fill up moroha/give her enough + frames to go into moroha safely at full screen, but then again that might be a bit too much.
Hey bro I wanted to know where you got your paracelsus key in the background I really want one please let me know if there's somewhere I can get one that would be awesome also love your videos G you have made me a better player for real just by watching your videos and understanding general knowledge love you man❤ by the way ABA is my favorite character ancel I'm having a really fun time with her butt it's hard playing her in neutral not going to lie
it would be neat if aba had better defensive tools in her normal form that get traded out for strong offensive tools in jealousy mode. Make it more of a trade off
I like it. And aba is super fun. With that its like playing faust(in strive) the reward is that much better and it improves my fundamentals and thinking approach to fighting games. Faust feels mega buffed, and playing aba makes it feel like a whole new open world of tools and cool shit. With that, developing her seems fun and all the little intricacies will only be better with slight buffs overtime. Completely agree, with hc being the way he is, strong and only getting stronger, this approach is cooler I think. We can look at sin and how he is now too.
@The300Player Yup, Bandai made an emergency patch to nerf him after the fans placed their concerns. I don't remember much about Fahkumram, but he was banned in Pakistan for a while.
Forget making them strong make them fun! Sin specifically is very powerful, but many don’t play him because he’s restrictive to play against and with. Very few are truly making a lot of him similar to elphelt but they need to address why play consistency is lacking. Johnny actually is really fun and many people lab hard with him. Aba is getting insane lab time as well, along with most DLC characters but there are some outliers that need retouches. Sin and Elphelt are still fun but restrictive in some sense. EDIT: but not restrictive in a “balanced” sense. Just removing fun. Maybe it means making Sin’s eat meter more incorporated and Elphelt losing the powerful rekka (When it is started) to get more fun reworks.
its probably just hard to adapt characters from a whole different version of gg which is why asuka is one of the exceptions. like i cant really be surprised with johnny because you have to adapt him to the game with him still being recognizable which is probably pretty hard to do itd be cool to see more chars that actually fit strive from the jump but slayer with his kneecaps broken will be cool too i guess lmfao
strive would be more dominant in the fgc if chaos didn't fester for like 3 years, how did they let it happen for so long.... the yearly patch is fine, but they need to actually make the big changes in the yearly patch and if they dont their should be a second patch like 2 months after the first to fix anything they left too weak or strong
I didn't quit because of HC but man, he was so unfun to play against. At least a casual player like me could just turn down matches against him, since I'm not a competitor I don't really *need* to learn the MU. Pro players on the other hand...my condolences that you guys had to put up with that annoying crap.
Personally i dont like my dlc being dogshit until a year later. I couldnt enjoy strive and baiken came out and thats only bc shes the only character i love enough to wanna thug it out. The day they buffed kabari 5p was the best day in my life as far as GG is concerned. She wasnt ass before the buffs but god damn was it fucking annoying to not be able to play the game I wanted. When sin came out i told myself i'd wait for a patch. One year later season 3 drops, sin was a sleeper top tier and i feel in love with the game again. Ik its bias to base the enjoyment solely on my own characters being good but im just trying to convey that no one wants to deal with a weak (relative to the cast) character for a main.
aba is solid. who cares if she wont make it to top 8 consistently? that metric fucking sucks. the reason she wont make it top 8 isn't because she's bad, its because hc, nago, leo etc are broken. you don't balance the game by making everyone broken, you balance it by bringing the top tiers down.
I love Jamie SF6 for being so much fun. The works pays off too. I kind of want to invest in ABA for the same reason and she is a ton of fun. Ngl is WA and the fact that ppl just stall her out. At least Jamie can drink in neutral if you try to ignore him. Give her that.
@@limb-o7180 people didnt think asuka was bad at all at launch,we all saw the potential,it just needed time to develop and he was still decent in the beginning while unoptimized
I heard that eastern and western opinion on character strength are different so I assume ArkSys is catering to western audience by not repeating the HC incident. Do you think there is a benefit to listening to eastern community?
I dunnoooooo people saying shit too early :) I think aba has a way more complete kit and gameplan compared to a lot of the characters released recently (minus mister cube)
Testament just feels like he's missing something. He's in a weird spot like, he wants to be a zoner but he also wants to be a mix-up character but his TP is too slow for it
@@Pyronek or give him some old or new moves that will decide what he is bc rn he's in an awkward spot. He's not bad but I forget he's in the game because no one plays him and he just seems like he was half-baked. Like they know what they want for testament but someone forgot to add the other moves. Like he only has 4 specials, isn't that weird? I know some characters don't have that much but even then they have about 5 or more. But for testament to only have 4 is off.
Johnny has no way to safely approach outside of walking slowly towards you And he doesn’t get any good offense without card or kd A lot of his big pokes are neutral on block at best meaning he doesn’t actually get to zone you out while also being unable to force a favorable interaction Thats my take at least
Yep, it's better to have a new character that sucks temporarily than a new one that makes every single other character suck by comparison. As long as they don't shy away from making the characters too distinct for fear of breaking the game I don't have a problem with it.
Sin is the only dlc character that started out horrible that became really strong he’s also the most underrepresented character that most people think is super strong
I'm seeing people defend this and I just personally don't get it. Like, there's a false dichotomy here. Why does a character need to be released in literal dumpster tier on release just to avoid Happy Chaos OP situations? Just make a character and give them good tools. Make them at least viable. Because having fan favorite characters almost unplayable till like 6 months to a year means they're going to be dropped, and unlikely to be given another chance. This isn't some "superficial tier list chasing" here, it's that people can't enjoy a character if they're getting wrecked each match for no reason. And each one of the situations is a likely hood of another player just dropping the game outright too.
@@HotashiMaybe, but I personally don't consider it a healthy state for the game, I suppose. I don't want another happy chaos but surely there's a better way. Oh well. (I'm just sour because I like ABA alot but normal mode feels like it got hit with a crowbar)
I mean one of the reasons I quit wasn't 'Happy Chaos' though he was part of it. It was the fact the top 5-6 characters basically never got knee capped or BS given to the lower tiers in a way that ever shaked up the meta. The top of the tier list basically didn't change after Happy Chaos for nearly 2 years outside May & Chipp occasionally being equal with the top then getting nerfed the next patch to not be as good. It made the game incredibly stale. There were clear and present problems with characters that made the game just super unfun, then positive + wild assault meta (pre-nerf) dropped and just realized the game isn't for me. I'd rather have more broken DLC characters that shakes stuff up then a patch a couple down the line to smooth it out. The fact Japan just refused to acknowledge HC was broken beyond belief for like 1.5 years so they just never touched him in a meaningful way was a symptom of something that could was true true to a lesser degree with a large number of top tiers for the entire meta of the game. In the words of LK when season 3 started "Arcsys you really need to start kneecapping characters, this is getting ridiculous". Honestly, the most recent patch seems to have knee capped people enough to make me want to try again, it's just Arcsys balancing just seems asanine.
I think it’s better than releasing super broken characters but can’t they just land somewhere in the middle? 3 straight bottom 5 characters? Come on man.
Balance patches need to be more frequent. The lack of balance patches seriously hurts this game because characters like Chaos don't get nerfed fast enough to finally be manageable and bad characters don't get nerfed fast enough to actually be more viable in tournaments.
