What It Means to Act as if You Believe in God | Jordan Peterson & Jonathan Pageau 

Always this.

These kinds of quotes surprise me, but remind me that the intellectual realm has been allowed to form a boundary. Meanwhile, Washington Gladden inspired the Social Gospel Movement in his support of pro-labor and pro-Afro-Am actions, and his writings. Earlier still, George Fox and the Quaker-Friends made intriguing strides, forming the basis for the work of T Clarkson. Clarkson became the pioneering social movement activist, supported by the Quakers and a range of other participants.

@@robinhoodstfrancis This comment reads like it was written by an AI. What exactly are you trying to say?

​@@wierdpocket AI. Yeah, I guess you know what a human being can really do now, for Jesus. I´m no church-bred doctrine-talker. I´m a free-range spiritual seeker who reclaimed true Jesus. AI. Yeah, so that´s how you perceive my thoughts here. So, how you perceive yourself would be....XYZ. So, the quote is Chesterton saying that there aren´t any real Christians. When did he operate? I´m thinking Charlie Chaplin´s days after he left the UK in the 1910s. Off the cuff, I know that Robert Owen was influenced by a Christian doctor T Percival to start pro-labor business, that combined with the UK anti-slavery movement that I started to refer to and led to the founding of the co-op biz movement in Rochdale. FD Maurice had started his kind of "Christian socialism" around that time that also converged with co-ops. A little later, I believe, came the couple who is credited with the settlement house movement. That´s just the UK. Washington Gladden in the US started the pro-labor, pro-poor, pro-Afro-Am Social Gospel movement that influenced FD Roosevelt, actually. Eleanor participated in Jane Addams´ pro-poor Hull House project that she got from the UK pro-poor settlement houses. That extends to today. As someone who started as an interfaith seeker, I picked up a book by Huston Smith, then Alan Watts, and went to a Zen Temple before I ever approached Christianity much at all. I guess I´d say Chesterton would have been more correct to say, "The Christian ideal has been widely forgotten in institutional circles, but pulled far out by profiteers and other ambitious types. Difficult? People who seek show how integrity resurges. That´s what spiritual experience is for. Even William Wilberforce had that experience as limited as it was in his experience in Parliament for abolition. There is beauty in how George Fox helped lead the founding of the Quaker-Friends, and is credited with some fifty plus others as co-founders. How their legacy led to anti-slavery messages that converged with Anglican dissident T Clarkson. William James´ book Varieties of Religious Experience took Christian Science seriously, calling testimonies from it, and maybe offshoots, "mind-cure." Yet, today we have interfaith practice in Buddhist meditation, yoga, tai chi, and more that all promise more integrity in spiritual experiences and appreciating Jesus without becoming indoctrinated or trapped in institutional distraction. Physicist Fritjof Capra started by meditating that led him to write Tao of Physics. Now, if that´s too AI for you, then I guess you´ll have to find another more user-friendly human being.

​@@robinhoodstfrancis I really wasn't trying to be snide, I literally couldn't parse out what you were trying to say. I apologize if that came off as rude. Peace to you.

Amen

The letter of James is my favorite non-gospel book of the Bible.

Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE IS THE REAL SAVIOR YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Semitic Scroll: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"

@@Praise___YaH That literally had nothing to do with the verse quoted above.

Amen

God has lined out a very specific set of standards that he wants his people to do...these standards also separate God's people from the rest of the world.Believing in God Is not worship.Like Paul said "even the Demons believe and yet shudder...". Demons

@@webbit1518 "to act as if God exists"is what I wrote, not "believing in God" . I was quoting a comment Jonathan Pageau makes in response to Jordan Peterson saying he doesn't believe in God but he behaves as if God exists.

An all powerful being that needs reinforcement from me, is no god - worship is asking santa for presents

@@AldousHuxleysCat He doesn’t “need” worship, believers worship because we desire to love and praise God. We choose to worship out of our own incentive to be in the presence of other believers who wish to dwell on God as well

@@HobbitLord1248 please, it demands worship, it's sad how needed an all powerful being is. Yes I get it, you need reinforcement of your fantasy from others caught up in it. It's why there are huge sporting stadiums

Can you tell me what it means to live as if God existed?

@@rockysage7760 I live as God exists and I what I mean by that is that I live the way Christ would want me to live by his example. I often don't do as I want to do but I do as Christ showed me how he did it and want me to do and that is not always easy at all. I do that even though I don't know if Christ exists. Christians therefore do not think that I am a real Christian. I don't go to Church and I even stopped praying. There are Christians that go to church and even if they don't live The Life, they are seen as Christians and I am not.

@@AnnemieM that's really interesting because I've always found Christ's teachings to be incredibly valuable for us. But I'm not the kind of person who goes to Church either.. I don't even believe in gods. So we are kindoff similar you and I.

@@rockysage7760 hey, sorry it took me awhile to respond. Honestly, I don’t think I’m qualified to tell you but I’ll tell you what it means to me. I’ve heard wisdoms starts with the fear of God. To me this has always meant dealing with his judgment. It can be really hard to get passed that part as a believer. Because honestly we all sin. We all make mistakes. Everyday. Sometimes we don’t feel worthy. Let go of shame because shame is not from God. God wants you to be free. (Not all Christians are free just to be clear.) when Jordan Peterson says clean your room he is telling you to take care of your environment. When you do that you learn to be grateful for it (Praising God) and when you are grateful you care and you learn that you can influence your environment for the better. FOR EVERYONE. (Turn the other cheek if necessary.) Monitor your sleep. If you can’t quiet your mind you have thinking to do. Something you need to get in order. Nothing better then a clear mind (don’t lie) when you go to sleep. Stand up for injustice (tell the truth). We all fall short of the glory of God. And that’s the point. You need to give it your all and you still will not be good enough. But the cool thing about life is that you can try again in the morning. Gods love is renewed every morning.

@@AnnemieM There probably was a historical figure like Christ during that time period. I'm pretty sure he didn't do a lot of the stuff they tell you he did in the stories though.

There's also something somewhat prideful in saying people aren't transformed. It automatically puts you on a higher place over the other person when you make that judgement. How do you know you're that much better than someone you claim isn't transformed?

@@emmagrace6396 I believe what Dr. Peterson is implying is that the degree of transformation is not sufficiently equal to the gravity of actually believing that God (specifically the Christian God) is real, and has communicated His will and plan for mankind, and has made the way to redemption open from His end. You can notice objectively and empirically that a person has improved and moved from something low to something higher and still recognize that the percent of that transformation is as a single raindrop in a lake. it is not required that a person is higher, more skilled, more knowledgeable, or in any way better to be able to serve as a judge. Olympic judges are not themselves Olympians, umpires and referees do not train their muscles to play the game but their perspectives to measure it. An individual cannot properly judge themselves “ 𝑫𝒐𝒏'𝒕 𝒕𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏 𝒂𝒍𝒐𝒏𝒆, 𝒊𝒕 𝒐𝒏𝒍𝒚 𝒆𝒎𝒃𝒆𝒅𝒔 𝒚𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒆𝒓𝒓𝒐𝒓𝒔.” If we truly believed that God was actually real down to the core of our beings; we would either be raised to the precipice of our potential or, unable to achieve that, be reduced to a sniveling puddle.

@@davidbizzanelli7803 First, works do not lead to salvation, only by faith in the work of Jesus on the cross are we justified. Second, Peterson wants evidence of change and you are correct that some change is demonstrable (self effort) and can be evidence to other people. After all, the pharisees could put on quite a show when tithing. But Jesus knows the heart. Third, we don't all start at the same point or progress in a straight line. This is why Jesus gives so much grace (infinite grace). A heroin addict may be saved for years before they conquer that addiction while I may be battling a prideful nature or a tendency to be crude. I cannot compare their struggle to mine.

Exactly, I came here to ask the same thing. Holiness can be much more humble, and appear much more mundane, than people might expect.

@@clairet5636 Yes- It is man who looks on the outside but Jesus knows your heart. Which is both reassuring and terrifying (to me) at the same time!

What job requires that? Tree surgeon?

AAAAAAMMMMMMEEEEEENNNN

He can scarcely speak of Christ without breaking down and being reduced to tears. I feel like this is a precursor to salvation, being gripped by The Spirit.

Whole - WHOLEheartedly agree.

Wow! Great point !

Absolutely, 100% agreed.

@Nathan Nitai Das I hope I'm still in it!!! I want to be more under the fear of the Lord. It's not a thing to be "over" but an awareness of the reality of the awesomeness of God. Now, there was a time when I feared Him in the negative sense (hopeless, self-condemnation, unconscious unbelief at His salvation) -but that's a whole other thing....

Exactly! Jonathan's answer was wrong. The majority of those who claim to be Christians and are not transformed are not truly regenerated. And if Jonathan understood this he would be able to make a strong case to help people like Jordan Peterson differentiate between faults Believers and True Believers

Can you expand on this?

@@Built_By_Bacon Are you asking me or James?

@@MrKneeV you, “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord.’ I haven’t heard that statement

@@Built_By_Bacon we are called to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. And in jude it says that unbelievers have crept in among us. Jesus says many who call him lord never actually new him. Titus 1:16 they claim to know God but they did not him by what they do. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit do anything good.

Right on. When I'm talking to agnostics or atheists who are nonetheless 'curious', I don't usually try to 'convince' them, but I do encourage them to ask God to show Themselves to them, and to ask 'As If' God was real.

Praise god. He cannot use a man who is prideful - he works through us more as we are more receptive when we fall to our knees and humble ourselves . Continue in faith

(Phrygia) | ancient district, Turkey | Britannica.

Jen, I am curious about the experience you had. In what way did God reveal himself to you? Thank you.

Tell us what you experienced regarding Him showing up.

This is the truth of the matter. Christianity and its transformative teachings have been lost.

@@newdawnrising8110 Would Christ let Himself be forgotten? I guess not. He is the teaching, He is the transformation

Gandhi: “ I like your Christ but not your Christians”. G. was Hindu.

What part has been considered difficult?

@@konyvnyelv. Monogamy, truthfulness, self restraint, abnegation, prayer, sacrifice, honesty, idolatry, theft, drunkenness and ignorance.

because people use imagery and Jesus as a good luck charm in hopes to gain something for nothing.Gods standards do not work that way.

The older I get, the more merciful I hope God is.

So

Of course, being Christian doesn't mean that you are better than any other else, but means that you understand and accept how bad and sinful you are and know that your soul will be saved not because you did enough good deeds but because our merciful God sacrificed to offer you the salvation. Than you try to build a relationship with this God. And as stronger this relationship gets, you get transformed. And this isn't something that happens in one night! Sometimes people go through hell in order to ripp off their ego and allow God to take its place, so the Holy Spirit will transform them.So the Christians you knew, doesn't mean that because are called Christians, were better than you, or even as good as you. On the opposite, if we Christans don't have a profound and honest relationship with God, can be very arrogant and dangerous! But on the other hand, you can find Christians that have build such a great and deep relationship with God, that their good deeds, which are result of this relationship with God, are beyond of what a simple human being can do!

That doesn't mean that they were not Christian. It means that they are immature which in many ways we all are.

Because we are afraid to go deep inside of us, we are afraid of losing ourselfes by understanding who we real are and our real meaning. So we aren t honest first of all with ourself, and obvesly it becomes hard to be honest about this with others.

Yes very succinct and strikes to the heart of many of the issues.

Why are so many people transformed by "tidying their room" is the real question no one wants to talk about.

Because these men have IQs at the 99th percentile and higher

@@tomhudson4719 A high IQ is no help when you are in error, it actually makes it harder to make a correction.

P A N O

@@dr.klausschwab6184 This is my channel, now 😎

@@panokostouros7609 not if i delete all your social credits 🤑

Proverbs 3:5, Jeremiah 17:9, Fear is a reverential awe of God. Discernment is key.

Jesus. The crown of thorns. Putting to shame all the prideful kings of the earth.

Amen

I don't understand what they are saying. I understand the words but what ARE they saying? Can you help?

@@rockysage7760 If it's any consolation I struggled to follow most of the video! But my summary is that Jordan is (rightly) questioning the truth of Christianity as a result of what he's seen in the church, and in so called believers, today. The overall lack of faith, courage and conviction. For example, if Christians believe in God why don't they live and act as if they do? Jordan said in the video that if being at one with God is the case, then "why does the world seem so unredeeemed?". I think there are too many Christians who have accepted Jesus as their Saviour but then they think that they can carry on living as before. Instead, as redeemed children of God, we need to be living out that change and that transformation, by surrendering everything to God and being visibly set apart for Him. If we don't shine with the knowledge of God and what Christ has done for us, why would anyone in the world feel their need of accepting Him? We are the only bible some unbelievers will ever read. We need to be fighting against the stream on the Lord's behalf, not going 'with the flow'- though that is often the easier option. It's not about judging other Christians however, but our own hearts. Am I acting as if God (almighty, powerful, Holy, unfailing etc.) exists? Am I acting as if I have been redeemed, and saved for eternity? Hope that didn't confuse things.

@@rebeccamclaren97 ohh thank you! It's hard to understand what Peterson is trying to say sometimes. English is my second language. But your explaination is clear 👍 I agree that most Christians today (including myself) don't actually understand Christ's teachings all that well. And the church has a big role in that. The scandals, the crimes, blatant hypocrisy everything made people like me alienate ourselves from it.

@@rockysage7760 yes a lot has come in to pollute the church, which doesn't give unbelievers much faith in our beliefs! Sadly the devil is still trying his best to disrupt the truth and to scatter the saints, dividing churches and making it harder for the world to understand why we believe in God. But we can pray. Prayer is powerful and even though the world is a mess, and in some ways Christianity is a mess, we know the God Who is able to reach even the hardest of hearts.

Or maybe it's a lack of Courage that Prevents People from letting Go of God I can see why the idea of God is comforting for some but reality cares little for my Emotional need

Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE IS THE ONLY SAVIOR YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Semitic Scroll: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"

@@Praise___YaH Mere Words from an ancient text are proof of nothing

Suggest ask your pastor if he has ever inquired into Orthodoxy. Form an inquiry study group in your church with pastor if possible. Then make appointment with Antiochian or Greek Orthodox priest. Study how Early Church praxis helped them spiritually, not a “ritual.”

Run to the closest orthodox church

@DKLK God does not want a relationship where you just fear him. He wants a loving relationship. You start by recognizing you SHOULD fear him and that is the beginning of wisdom. What follows is a more intimate connection that is far stronger than fear in itself. God wants you to know he loves you, not that you should just have a respectful fear of him.

The love of God is infinitely gentle. That is my experience of God's love.

​@@hellomate639 me too. 🥹

Yet a majority of american christians are falling into america's poor moral standards. They truly are the luke warm christians it speaks of in revelations.

Some are ornamental christians, there might be more than you think because some are too afraid to admit even to themselves.. These people go to church for a social hub, they feel good having a place to go, people to talk to. A sense of community that is increasingly rare these days, most people don’t even know or want to know their own neighbor.

Huh.... what about salvation (accepting Jesus' sacrifice for your sins), sanctification (growing closer to God and God's righteuousness helped by the Holy Spirit), and glorification (the bodily transformation at the end of time).

I'm not sure I agree fully, but I get where you're coming from here, Diane. I think a 3-step sanctification process seems oversimplified. It is Father God who draws us to Himself by His Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit attests that Jesus is the Son of God all while Jesus, the Son of God, attests to the Father. At the point that we come into agreement with the fact that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and there is no way to the Father but through Him, we are offered the greatest opportunity to join in the symbiotic relationship between God and mankind we lost when we sinned.

Jesus said come unto me.

Except that your "god" is really satan as proven by the Gnostics 2000 years ago

Jordan said their conversations were hard to take at the end of this talk. Might have something to do with that, I suppose.

I love to hear these great minds talk it out

I really can't stand any talk with Jordan Peterson. He rambles on in such a confusing, non committal, long-winded word salad manner. In another talk, he actually said, "metaphorical substrate". Oh good grief! 🙄

@@tomy8339 this may be true. I get what you’re saying. Sometimes I get frustrated with him, but I think that’s his way of making sense. He has to go through all of that to get to what he wants to say. It’s his idiosyncratic way. He ultimately says the meaningful thing and that’s why he’s so popular. Jonathan likes him.

@@tomy8339 you really complain and don't try to learn a bit of language from him? Really? Missing a hell of an opportunity...

He still believes Man can actually achieve the level of Christ...

Completely detached from my family, it was hard. I still love them and wish them well but I dont talk to my brothers...you cannot be anymore woke or leftist than them. They attacked me relentlessly, tried to turn my parents against me with lies and shcemes. Truely the devil works through them. They know not what they do, I had to detach to save my life.

Genesis 2:7 says we are a living soul not have a soul we are a soul.

@@sooperd00p Forgive your brother

Agreed, only following God / Jesus and to bring other souls to heaven with you are the only pursuits worth doing anymore. God bless each one.

Freedom has a price. Self sacrifice for self.

Why not give everything up for God. He promises eternal life. After all we've done wrong against ourselves and his law. We can try to make up for it with this one mortal life.

@@sapereaudeart3664 There is no making up for our sin. Works righteousness is the quickest way to condemnation. We must cast ourselves at the finished work of Christ. I'm very sympathetic to Dr. P's thesis here...on my best day, my works are as "filthy rags" compared to the purity and holiness of God.

@@mikeseeley1042 wdym condemntation

@@sapereaudeart3664 Eternal damnation. You know, Hell.

@@mikeseeley1042 but the devil accuses us and makes us feel condemned. if we have the lord then we are not condemned. amen. and also good works are a good thing, its a sign of your faith and spreading the gospel, the truth of jesus christ. we are even commanded to spread the good news. amen.

Fail ?

@@stevenlight5006 It’s actually fall. As in the trip over it. Christ goes on to say that people will either stumble over the stone, the corner stone of the new temple (himself) or they will be crushed by it. Jesus is making the point that humanity will have to struggle with the freight of his reality.

Amen. Try fasting. Thats something saints do a lot. Most people today are so comfortable they have never thought about starvation. For what? For who? For christ ofcourse. And for his promise of eternal life.

Being a saint is easy. In the old testament its translation is "holy one". You achieve it via God designating you as one. Living it out is impossible without God's assistance.

Bwahahahah!

I grew up around faithful people who go to church always and have worship sessions whenever possible basically. They were good to each other, but they were not interested in anyone who isn't "one of us". Whereas I wanted to go help victims of rape, addicts, pregnant teens, the homeless, etc.... They all resorted to kicking me out of the family and ostracize me because I chose to mingle with those that God hasn't deemed worthy of his love. A lot of religious people have a superiority complex because of their invisible magical friend. They think that they are "blessed", and those who have strayed from the path that I wanted to help were "doomed and damned", because God reaches out to those who love and deserve him or some other bullshit verse. I left my faith, turned to a decade long search of another faith, but I just saw more of the same wherever I turned my head. And I've traveled far and wide in my search. Lived in a dozen different countries, couple different continents. It's all the same, just a different coat of paint. You don't need an invisible judge to make you go do good deeds so you don't burn in hell and go to heaven. You can do good deeds with no expectations of reward, and that, to me, is the biggest reward.

"All fall short to the glory of God" .... No one gets closer, but the effort to be better is the key, I don't want to hurt my friend, and if I do, does this mean I don't love my friend, no, we make mistakes, and our intention is not to hurt them... a relationship is work, but to not put effort then it's doom to fail.... you can only take one day at a time, don't let it hinder yourself with the past

Thanks for sharing Have a great day! God Bless! Stay strong, stay safe and take care of yourselves! Wishing everyone the best! Jesus loves you! May the Holy Spirit guide you! 😇 💗🕊 Cheers to a better year buddy! 💞🥂🍻

There is no hate like Christian "love"

@alphabet people love for the truth and how to follow the truth, is in the instructions. We can't side with what is Ill. We have to have a sound mind, and that doesn't make a person have the right to not have humility. But the rightous heart knows. So because I'm Christian, people believe, I'm weak ,soft, and submissive.But the truth is I'm powerful because I get it from GOD'S word. IAM very very soft to those that deserve it and I'm hard the same. And I only submit to GOD

Yes!

Acts thru you is way

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So what did you learn

Yeah what did you learn?

@@gingfreecss3808 For one: what it really visceraly feels like to love my neighbour as myself, two: to sense the value of each human life, and three: I could see a bright beauty that permeates the world before us, in every existing thing. This is not to mention what ultimate personal life lessons I was set (that day) to journey through, following from the interactions I had after that prayer. It was the start of a path that has led me to a career that combines my scientific studiea with my religious preoccupation with biblical music, to name one.

@@neilhorsley343 see below.

@@Yamikaiba123 thank you

no one is willing to be a martyr , especially not our leaders

Look at that nun in Myanmar who stood up to the police to protect young protestors.

@@akhusal .. that doesn't make you a saint, nor a martyr.. that's reserved for much higher levels, not to say that nun isn't a great woman

A soon-to-be saint of our time who has passed away recently is Elder Ephraim of Arizona!

Biblically speaking, all who have a saving faith in Christ are saints. The Roman Catholic Church has perverted the true meaning of the word.

exactly, there are a lot, and then some, of people who are so busy uttering and professing Jesus' name out loud and expecting others to utter it with equal revery and conviction, all the while they are the ones who are so besotted by the Word yet fail to ACT like Christ. Myself included.

@@mazklassa9338 Do not "act" like Christ, that is not what a Christian is, how can a man meet this standard? He lives in and through a believer, and it is not from us. Rest in His faithfulness and depend on Him whole heartedly.

@@firstname713 yes, to act as Jesus did, fully in all ways, is of course impossible. I think what you said though on just keep believing in Him is probably the right path, even though we will always fall short in one way or another.

​@@mazklassa9338 This is why correct understanding is so important, the weight of trying to live as Christ did will crush anybody as you said. When we depend on Him to accomplish His purpose, our purpose is realized and made tangible . It is written that every good work of a Christian has been predestined by God, yet we strive in ignorance and disbelief to accomplish it as work from our own two hands.

Precisely

True saints never lived as everyone else did. True believers have a regenerated heart and do not have the desire to live as the world. They have been given a new nature that gives them new desires.