Who Factually Saw the Gold Plates? A Marvelous Work And A Blunder [ML 185] 

'Daniel Petersons lunch' i blew my diet coke out my nose😂 Great episode

Imagine if the person who found the Dead Sea scrolls covered it in cloth, then only let 3-8 people “see it” with spiritual eyes as a “witness” to prove it’s real, and then later claimed that God took them back but still came out with a translation of those records… What a joke. That person would be a laughing stock.

The Keebler elves were watching Joseph hide the plates in the hollow log. They guarded the log while Joseph was away.

The actor playing Joseph Smith looks like Adam Sandler. Especially the smile.

I wish I had been informed In 1982!

So summarizing where we are with “the greatness of the evidence” with about 5 hours of airtime: 1. Chiasmus happens in the Book of Mormon and many other places 2. The Book of Mormon is set in the ancient Americas and ancient American civilizations existed, 3. Some people might have seen the plates at least spiritually. Greatness must not mean convincing or abundant or faith promoting.

Love to hear from Dan Vogel, it says something that he is in the comments week after week.

If Joseph had had real plates, he would have been letting anybody with a $1 Bill see them... just like the Mummies

Watching these recreations just confirms how utterly ridiculous and fake the entire gold plates story actually is. How would anyone believe this.

I reckon those shrooms that grow on the birches in the grove had a hand in the events...

Love the long episodes! Can't wait for part 2!

Great show.

Scott Christopher should be nominated for an Oscar

Sorry Biłł, RFM, and Dan but there were nine witnesses, the extrs one being Pauł H Dunn, dropping down during a cease fire in The War In Heaven.

As a never mo, I see this weird guy stealing gold and hiding in the forest from the true owners and think… 🤔 this is a movie that puts the founder/prophet in a good light? Well not to me, this guy looks like a thief and a criminal. And that’s only 2 minutes into the film.

Sometimes the pro-Mormon lies are overwhelming to me. Mostly because they had me teach these lies.

Great show! Thank you!

I just got an add for A Marvelous Work while watching this...

I have a long and storied career as a guitarist hefting amplifiers around. Running with 70 prounds? Hahahahaha. 😆😆😆

One of the men in this video is a former missionary companion and business partner from 47 years ago (Joseph Sr.) I barely recognized him. I guess we're all getting older. I very much respect him. I hate that we're on opposite side of this issue.

All these witnesses were also treasure diggers and the spiritual craftiness that goes along with that stuff in those days.sonof course they are delusional when they say "with my spiritual eyes" all of them are superstitious people!!

I agree with mister Dan that you Are the SMARTEST on the internet! Regardless the subject Wish you had time and intressest to decontruct other crazy organisation As a never mormon I use your think-tank on other issuses. Thank you👍🏻

They made JS look older like Charlton Heston in Moses after the Mt Sinai trip. :)

Interesting. Thanks

My Guess is that he made some plates for the top but it was too much of an effort to do it all like that, so he bulked out the bottom with a cut rock.. Someone who felt it said 'hold on.. this bit doesn't feel like plates' so he went 'Oh... ur.. that's because. um.. it's a sealed section. '

Damn. Wish I would have tuned in and watched live. I was there last week Thursday. So obnoxious to hear the miracle stories. And the contradictions.

Commenting to help.

He carried those pates with the muscles of faith. Not like the muscles that could lift that pencil case. But the kind of muscles you lift a city thru a mountain with.

As soon as the new episode dropped, I knew Mormonism Live would be do an episode... I cannot wait to listen!!!!

Hello Dan Vogel

When he is running.... should look like Kramer!!@

Maven, you women in the church have the same experience as men do as far as hoping you will but never actually having any kind of vision. I think you belabor the point.

❤️ All of a sudden humanity believes everything in life must be in eyeshot to be True. Nothing mysterious about this way of thinking. In fact, We searched with great desire distant planets, we created microscopes to find life. We are still searching for medicines for many cures. Searching someone’s heart indeed has purpose great purpose in fact…❤️

Just wondering if Dan Vogel has all of the references to the different versions of the wagon trip. Or if he has a publication that lists them might be easier if he knows about that.

Why did Joseph Smith run through the woods carrying a heavy stack of gold plates that for the most part nobody would be allowed to see? Here are some answers from people who were in the area at the time. (1) Lemuel Durfee (erstwhile landlord and employer of the Smiths): "My guess is that he ran through the woods in order to...uh...get out of the woods. You know, like how it is that a chicken crosses the road to get to the other side." (2)Moroni (glow-in-the-dark resurrected man angel): "I actually don't know why he did that. I would have transported the plates for him...if he had asked politely. He offered to carry them back to his home. Didn't make no difference to me either way and I was already three bars down on my angel power pack." (3) Jacob G. Ullible (local hot rodder and friend of Oliver Cowdery): "If a guy who sez he's a prophet, see-er an' revemuhlator sez he done run through the woods a-carryin' a heavy stack of gold plates in a bag, does that mean he actually done did the very deed he sez he done did? Why would a prophet be a-sayin' nonsense if that nonsense ain't the most honestest truth? Frankly, he needed the exermuhcise on account of eatin' all of Mary Whitmer's raspberry pies."

I’d benefit from Dan V expanding in how the Quakers have more credible/contextual witness statement about their mystic events🤮

"Never Historical Mormons" ---- yes, Lehi left a message for us on that rock.

Running like he pooped himself.

RFM, nice Aladdin reference, HA!

Is-that-Joseph-Smith-with-the-8-witnesses ? Or-is-it-Captain-James-T-Kirk ?

The first clip shows the Hill of Cumorah as a forest terrain. In reality, very few trees or shrubs existed on the hill.

That voice sounds like Tim Ballard's voice - kind of jerky with dramatic emphasis.

People in the past were often looking a lot older than us in their twenties.

At the 1:00:41 mark Concerning the John A. Clark, Letter to Dear Brethren, where it is framed as if John A. Clark interviewed Martin Harris. This is inaccurate since John A. Clark did NOT interview Harris. According to the full statement John A. Clark received this information from an unnamed source. "A gentleman in Palmyra, bred to the law, a professor of religion, and of undoubted veracity told me that on one occasion, he appealed to Harris and asked him directly,-”Did you see those plates?”

To be fair, Justin is one of the most average looking celebrities.

I lean towards Gene Wilder, But I can see the Seinfeld too.

Joseph Smith actor says "Brotherin" instead of "Brethren"...must be from Utah or Idaho. That is how barely literate Brigham Young pronounced the, as well as certain "doctors" (ie. not medical) who frequently make podcasts.

These Syrupy Mormon films demonstrate just how differently people want to absorb information about the world. To me they appear so unrealistic as to read like a outrageous parody. But the makers of them must know their audience, and thus it says a lot about how that audience thinks and what they want to hear and be comforted by. It also is depressing because it's seems so incompatible with critical thought.

IDK...this representation of JS may just drive more TBMs away from the church. IMO, this actor's rendition makes JS appear as kind of dopey.

I literally don't know how these apologists keep a straight face anymore. I could not even present a missionary First Discussion without cracking up. Rocks in a hat, speaking salamanders, running through the woods with 70lb plates, ancient americans speaking in King James English while riding horses, seeing plates through "imagination", polygamy/polyandry, etc...

If they were gold plates treasure digger joe would have melted them down and sold it, get real 😂

Have not even watched the video yet but, but my guess is...nobody?!?

The acting and direction of this film is absolutely awful. It's painfully bad, just like the temple films were.

Do you think Js did drugs? He seems ... Out there

For me it would be a lot easier to believe that Joseph Smith fabricated a set of plates and showed them to the 8 in a physical way, then to somehow "hypnotize" all 8 simultaneously into having a "visionary" experience. Vogel obviously believes this "visionary" experience is fake, so how exactly did Joseph Smith induce all 8 to have a similar "visionary" experience at the same time? You know RFM (Mr evidence) and Bill Reel (Mr rationality) should perceive that it's alot easier to believe that Burnett somehow is either misinterpreting what Harris was trying to say to him, or that Burnett himself is being less than honest in his statement here. RFM of all people should know that this Burnett statement would be barred in court under the hearsay rule of evidence, and Bill Reel might consider discounting the statement because it is much less plausible than the notion that the 8 never saw the plates uncovered, and that they all experienced the same hallucination simultaneously. It's one thing to believe that a magic trick is involved, but Cmon you are way beyond that idea here. No matter how strong Vogel is in other areas of analysis, this is very weak argument in my opinion.

Dan Vogel Comedy ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-APfa7toGEQw.htmlfeature=shared

A marvellous work and a chunder…🤢🪣

Great show.