Dismantling Brian Hales' Book of Mormon Defense | Mormonism LIVE! 141

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Dismantling Brian Hales' Book of Mormon Defense: ML: 141 In this episode, hosts RFM and Bill Reel team up with LDS scholar Dan Vogel to critically examine the arguments put forth by LDS apologist Brian Hales in defense of the Book of Mormon's authenticity. They discuss Hales' reasons and defenses of why the BOM can't possibly be a work of fiction authored without God's involvement. The conversation offers a scholarly exploration of the strengths and weaknesses of Hales' defense, encouraging listeners to engage in thoughtful analysis of the Book of Mormon's origins.
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15 авг 2023

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Комментарии : 105

@TheSaintelias 10 месяцев назад

RFMS humor is a gift to all of mormondom. Truly given from god.

@TurdFerguson-cz5dx 10 месяцев назад

But I thought RFM doesn’t believe in God. RFMs humor is a gift from RFM

@TheSaintelias 10 месяцев назад

@@TurdFerguson-cz5dx even god finds him funny

@fibbermcghee23 6 месяцев назад

I LOVE RFM-!!! I am so delighted to join him on all venues- brilliant, wicked wit, Shakespeare theatre lover-, also enjoy his voice- his deep warm resonance: a charming king of communique!. I'm an Actress,Voice Coach (linklater) and theatre Professor so my praise is from experience and from a new fond fan- thanks all for the learning.

@2022Coopersmom 10 месяцев назад

it’s not about the size of the boat, it’s about the motion of the ocean! Maybe brother Joseph’s visions showed him people being hypnotized by his long run on sentences. I was! I read the BOM every night as challenged by the missionaries (adult convert here). I was baptized 30 days after I met the missionaries. They said feelings prove it’s true. I instantly believed it all. The church’s push for converts can result in grooming and dunking the uninformed during their most vulnerable moments. In my case, I had just escaped a toxic relationship, and relocated to an unfamiliar city 300 miles away, for my safety. The sweet missionaries (and the ward members) didn’t create the push for converts. I loved them, loved being a member, and a ward missionary. It was my whole life until 2020. I found you shortly after. Thanks for making deconstruction easier for me. I’m a supporter via Patreon.

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

These guys' discussion of the unnecessary wordiness of the BOM reminded me of this: near the end of my mission in 1976, I was a DL, and I had a typewriter. I was tired of studying the same church material I had been studying for almost two years, so as a hobby, I began typing an abridged version of the BOM, removing all of the unnecessary verbiage and putting it more into modern English. When I was a kid in the '60s, my mother had bought us a four-volume series of books titled "A Children's Story of the Book of Mormon", written by a lady whose name I think was Deta Petersen Neely. So I didn't think I was doing anything wrong by typing up my own edited version. But my fellow missionaries acted like I was committing blasphemy for merely editing it to make it more readable. Looking back on that incident as an evil apostate, I realize that my fellow missionaries worshipped the BOM. Even though I was a dedicated TBM at the time, I never did hold that kind of reverence for the book as some other church members did, and still do.

@countrywestern2272 10 месяцев назад

Dan Vogel is a kind person. I certainly would not be as nice as he is.

@thelastgoonie6555 10 месяцев назад

Hilarious that the LDS corporation is paying for ads on youtube that play on the Mormon Discussions videos. Bill and RFM are LITERALLY sponsored by the church! lol

@teresapitman1659 10 месяцев назад

I was watching this last night trying to relax and fall asleep, and you guys had me laughing SO HARD! Thank you!!

@barryrichins 10 месяцев назад

Boys, before Hemingway published his book, "The Sun Also Rises," he went to ex patriot author Gertrude Stein to help him get it ready for publication. He didn't rewrite it simply once, rather three times, before Stein would sign off on it. Even though it was Hemingway's first book, it was probably his best book because it was edited by a professional writer who cared about her contribution to Hemingway's success as a writer. As a retired literature professor, it is my "humble" opinion that the BoM is poorly written, often a boring book, with poorly developed characters, that is hard to follow.

@ETBlair 10 месяцев назад

There are several chapters that are completely incomprehensible (Isaiah).

@TEAM__POSEID0N 10 месяцев назад

When I was in junior high school, a friend and I created a story/script for a comic book as an English class project. One of the main characters in our story was the "Crisco Kid"...and he was a man of slick ways and oleaginous mannerisms. As a result of that experience, I believe I was much less inclined to be impressed by the "complexity" of the Book of Mormon. When reading many of the Book of Mormon stories, I often found myself feeling frustrated and thinking of various ways that each of the stories could have been made more credible, convincing, interesting and meaningful. Like, the "Crisco Kid" had more depth and character development than most Book of Mormon characters...and the Crisco Kid was intentionally written as a farce (and patterned on the Cisco Kid).

@teresapitman1659 10 месяцев назад

I feel this way too. Even when I was a member, people would say "isn't the BOM amazing?" And I'd think "Are you reading a different book than me? It's really badly written."

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

The first scholarly critique of the BOM was written in 1831 by Alexander Campbell. He criticized the book's poor quality. The Mormon scholar BH Roberts did the same in his 1920s study of the book, which the church withheld from publication for many decades. If you've never read Campbell's critique, it's on the web at "Alexander Campbell’s review of the Book of Mormon." A very good article re: Roberts' critique is at "BH Roberts On Book of Mormon Historicity Was He An Early Adopter Of The “Inspired But Not Historical” Approach To The Book Of Mormon?"

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

@@teresapitman1659 The golden plates lay hidden, deep in Joseph's mind. Until he found cousin Oliver, with whom he could co-write. The record starts with Nephi, A studly lad of yore. But if you make it past that part, The rest is one big bore! “All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the "elect" have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it. I brought away a copy from Salt Lake. The book is a curiosity to me, it is such a pretentious affair, and yet so "slow," so sleepy; such an insipid mess of inspiration. It is chloroform in print. If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was a miracle - keeping awake while he did it was, at any rate.” ― Mark Twain

@RandomTheology 10 месяцев назад

RFM and Bill are too funny. As a Baptist Christian that has read portions of Rev Lamb’s book it was refreshing to hear his arguments discussed. Dan is a true scholar.

@davidteeples2558 9 месяцев назад

I grew up by and knew Brian during my highschool years. I even dated his daughter. He is a genuinely good person, intelligent and kind. He has family members who are polygamists. Part of the reason he did so much research on polygamy is because of he family connection. He was in the process of memorizing the whole book of mormon when I knew him. He had a strong belief and so sincere. I love the guy!

@johngrass7441 10 месяцев назад

Thank you! Please make an episode about speaking (and singing) in tongues at the early mormon church. You are the best.

@kentthalman4459 10 месяцев назад

Another excellent session. "Dismantaling" is an understatement, it's more like pulverizing. One substantial point missed in the discussion is that the gospels are a version of assembled oral stories passed on for decades from verbal accounts there were originally told in a different language. Any time a BoM verse matches verbatim a gospel scripture or phrase, it further dismisses BoM tight translation claims. Claims not only made by Hales, but by RFM whenever he talks of JS reading the words off the seer stone.

@LazarWolf07 10 месяцев назад

Laughed so hard right at the end when Dan said “that’s in the category of people making crap up.” Can someone please volunteer some time and, Dan willing, take the audio from his additional RU-vid videos and get them into the podcast world as well please? I want to hear more from Dan on a regular basis but generally have to listen while I work etc and can’t watch.

@agentcallisto 10 месяцев назад

“The Nephite looks like a refugee from the original Star Trek” LOL

@terrillmel 10 месяцев назад

Have you ever seen the movie "Catch Me if you can?" It stars Leonardo Decaprio and is based on a true story. It's a story about a highly intelligent man who pulls off some incredible deceptions. Including posing as a pilot, a doctor, and a professor. They should make a similar movie based on the life of JS. It really is a similar story.

@MeToo-py1tq 9 месяцев назад

I got one better if you want to know ask me

@missvickimae1150 9 месяцев назад

That guy has been proven a fraud too, uugh.

@terrillmel 7 месяцев назад

@@MeToo-py1tq just seeing this. Yeah tell me

@MeToo-py1tq 7 месяцев назад

@@terrillmel You should see the movie The Usual Suspects. The main character plays like he's a goof knows nothing. He tells story on top of story leads everyone on a wild goose chase with legends and tales. He's never suspected for anything. It is discovered that his stories are all made up he was making up stories with ideas, phrases, storylines in real time. He was a synthesizer producing stories. He gained sympathy and protection from the police cause he was a gimp, he walked with a limp just Like JOSEPH SMITH but it turned out he had no limp he was a great story teller it turned out just like JS

@terrillmel 7 месяцев назад

@@MeToo-py1tq I'll have to check it out

@heatherreddick4635 10 месяцев назад

A comment on brevity of writing, according to my 12th grade English teacher: “Your compositions should be like a lady’s skirt; long enough to cover everything that it has to cover, but short enough to be interesting.” 😉

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

I don't really feel like spending my time going through the remaining list. Not now anyway. I'm busy editing a book for a friend and baking cookies for our military. But as a former Mormon myself, I can honestly say that the one thing the BoM has going for it that the Bible lacks is a consistency of redundancy. "And it came to pass" appears over 1400 times in the BoM. If it didn't pass the first 100 times, someone should have taken their Metamucil.

@MormonNewsRoundup 10 месяцев назад

solid episode

@kingelvis5502 9 месяцев назад

Its like listening to dueling fan fiction acolytes. I hope the good guys win

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

When dealing with Mormon scholar arguments, the old saying "if you can't dazzle them with delivery, baffle them with BS" very much applies.

@bennyhinrichs 10 месяцев назад

As an author I have to chime in on the word count/page count discussion. Pages are a very poor metric for comparison because formatting is so variable. Obviously not all of these are created equally. Some authors bloviate a lot more than others. But here's a small list to look at. Reducing the BoM by 1/3 would put it at 180k words, or about as long as Dune or For Whom the Bell Tolls. Lord of the Flies: 60k The Hobbit: 95k Gulliver's Travels: 107k Eragon: 157k Dune: 187k Moby Dick: 206k Harry Potter 5: 257k Book of Mormon: 269k A Game of Thrones: 298k The Way of Kings: 387k War and Peace: 561k

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

I had a German Mormon friend back in the '70s who had served his mission in Germany. He told me that the phrase "and it came to pass" doesn't fit grammatically In German. So as a result, the German BOM is 14 pages shorter than the English version.

@TEAM__POSEID0N 10 месяцев назад

Dancing for a Decapitation: In the New Testament it's the "Daughter of Herod". In the Book of Mormon it's the "Daughter of Jared". Not only is it basically the same story, but the names of the dancers' fathers rhyme. They should form a dynamic duo dance team. The Daughters of Jared and Herod and the Decapitation Dancecapades! Appearing nightly at the Las Vegas Land of Moron Hotel! Jointly sponsored by the "Get Ahead in Life Foundation" and the "Heads Up Fine French Cutlery Corporation".

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

Starring Will Ferrell and Jon Heder.

@schrecksekunde2118 10 месяцев назад

always love the episodes with Dan 🤘😁

@heatherreddick4635 10 месяцев назад

OMG, I loved Pearl S. Buck’s, The Good Earth!!! And I had no idea she also wrote her own version of the Bible!! I’ll have to check that out!!

@DeanneSanchez 5 дней назад

It amazes me how people still push to make the Book of Mormon true and Mormonism true , blows me away . And it goes Ali deeper than Joseph Smith , I am really disheartend By the level of corruption that we are seeing today And people don’t want to open up thier eyes to it . It’s so sad that so many are being led down a destructive path. I understand that everyone has thier free agency all I can do is pray that my family will have thier eyes opened . Can’t Waite for your next podcast Take care guys 😊

@BeccaB370 5 месяцев назад

The temple worker had a lisp.. 😂 RFM you’re so funny.

@karis3647 7 месяцев назад

The shelf breaker for me was the word for word inclusion of a verse that is primarily italicized in the Bible. That means it was added at the time of translation, not included in the original text.

@chiltjl 10 месяцев назад

I am hearing disabled so I listen to the Podcast thru my hearing aids while walking. It dawned on me after the third or 4th time of hearing it, that Dan was referring to Hales's "thesis", not ""Feces".! I thought Dan was invoking John Larson for a minute there.

@TEAM__POSEID0N 10 месяцев назад

I love how you can just add the suffix "hah" to any name that ends in a vowel and...presto magico!...you've got yourself a Book of Mormonesque name. "And in those days, out in the Land of Moron, there was a singer named Crunerihah, who was the son of King Sinatrahah. And behold Crunerihah did change his name, after the manner of the practitioners of priestcraft, wherefore he became known throughout the land as El-vizihah."

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

Nice catch, Poseidon-hah.

@ringo3697 10 месяцев назад

Russelhah. Russel hah hah hah!

@deeperthings 10 месяцев назад

2:38:27 Bishop is a position in the Aaronic priesthood. President of a Ward is a position in the higher priesthood. The first time wards existed in the church was when Nauvoo was divided into twelve geographic wards, each of which was responsible to provide workers for the temple construction once every two weeks. Church meetings were held in quorums, not in geographic zones. When the pioneers went west, each company was an organized group with a presidency over it. In Salt Lake City, the stake was divided into wards and for the first time, church was held in wards. Since then, Bishops are also Presidents of the ward. But the function of Bishop is still part of the Aaronic priesthood.

@markschultz8982 29 дней назад

Being told chiasmus was an ancient Hebrew mnemonic device used for the memorizartion of long text and significant spiritual events was the reason I became the BYU Head Wrestling Coach. Then Chris Johnson showed me it was in "View of the Hebrews", "The Late War", "The First Book of Napoleon", so I took my name off the records.

@tgrogan6049 10 месяцев назад

Kannesh bara ha knonto banda to you all!

@user-dw3fb2cw6c 26 дней назад

🙌this ”gang ”🙌

@karencross3815 10 месяцев назад

Smith could make up names except....female names. Females don't have names in his mind, just purpose. Smith is seen as a man of god, the most righteous man ever. It does turn the stomach of those who know the truth.

@zackc3767 10 месяцев назад

1:08:27 reminds me of conjugating verbs in Latin 101

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

On the BOM IS COMPLEX SLIDE: c) The dialect of the BoM is Early English. Early English is another way of saying "poor grammar". The English language stems from the West Germanic language that originated in England and has gone through several transformations. Early English is actually in the Middle English period as opposed to Old English. Middle English was spoken from the 12th century through the late 15th century and was bled through the Early Middle English era of 1100-1300 AD. Conquests and cultural changes often affect the language, terms, and applications of words. The KJV- Smiths available Bible and what most of the BoM struggles to imitate, was from the early 1600s and hence would have been part of the later English era, indicating a rather bastardized version of the original English. d) Punctuation. Nathan Richardson, the LDS apologist, created a document that he believes closely resembles what the original transcript would have looked like. According to Richardson, like the Bible, the BoM had no punctuations or divisions. He cites writings from Olver Cowdery who was one of the people to act as a scribe. According to an article in Ensign magazine, the BoM transcript was ..“closely written and legible, but not a punctuation mark from beginning to end”. John H. Gilbert (a non-MOrmon) was the original typesetter for the BoM and added the punctuation and paragraphing. Richardson draws this conclusion: " Thus, while the translation was performed by a prophet based on inspiration, the paragraphing, sentence breaks, and punctuation were performed by a regular, educated man based on ordinary, mundane principles." So the story of the translation is basically one of Joseph Smith telling a tale, someone else writing it down, and a third person cleaning up the manuscript. Keep this in mind though: ONE man orated a story and only he. So any conflict between the BoM or inconsistencies therein, all fall on Smith, unless you want to blame his scribes or the printer. In which case this makes the BoM we have today, by Mormon logic, correctly translated but incorrectly transcribed.

@zackc3767 10 месяцев назад

Joseph was a long winded if charismatic storyteller who if he'd had an editor worth their salt he'd have written a book the length of Animal Farm (~150 pages).

@ringo3697 10 месяцев назад

They called him "Joe"

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

If Joseph had had an editor, maybe that guy would have informed Joseph that there were no horses or metal weaponry in Pre-Columbian America.

@ringo3697 10 месяцев назад

@@randyjordan5521 Or wheat and barley

@TEAM__POSEID0N 10 месяцев назад

If you do that, good. But then if you also subtract all of the plagiarism from the KJV Bible, subtract the re-worded popular sermons of the late 18th century and early 19th century (purporting to resolve arguments about things like infant baptism, etc.), all you are left with are a couple dozen childish miracle stories that have no relevance to the real world. The depth of such stories is basically "such and such character was righteous and faithful, so while camping in the wilderness he was able to build a transoceanic vessel capable of transporting dozens of people across thousands of miles of oceans, while being fully equipped with all necessities" OR "such and such character was righteous and faithful, so when his nasty brothers abused him, they got zapped by some kind of shock power" OR "such and such characters were righteous and faithful, so they could stand in the middle of a raging fire and not be burned by it, but instead be protected by it." The content is a better fit for Marvel comics than it is for anything of substantive life-guidance value. The characters are less believable than many comic book characters.

@patriciafinn5717 10 месяцев назад

How did he insert scriptures of the bible in his book if he was not using thw bible!! Simple

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

True, especially considering that the quotes in the BOM from the Bible repeat translation errors from the KJV. And then there are passages from the New Testament which only referred to issues/events exclusive to 1st century AD Judea, but which are repeated in the BOM as though those issues/events also occurred in 1st century AD America.

@RecoveryTurtle 5 месяцев назад

1:48:49 my favorite title is example

@Decision_Justice 5 месяцев назад

56:00 - 57:00 Remember the Book of Mormon edition with those full-page color "artist's rendering" of the events in Nephite -Lamanite "history"? Complete with, was it Captain Moroni, riding on a horse? And all those depictions of men wielding steel swords?

@whym6438 8 месяцев назад

As a never-Mormon who's read a lot of fantasy, what's incredible to me is that anyone believes in the Book of Mormon at all. It's very obviously a fantasy novel.

@drakelazerus 4 месяца назад

If Mormon was truly etching words into gold and stated how awkward it was, one would think he would avoid long run on sentences and be more concise. Hales was inadvertently showing that it wasn't an ancient written text, but was a dictated work.

@suthatheplee2777 10 месяцев назад

I definitely wanted to be there but could not manage to get there. I did attend in London, fall 2019 and met some cool people.

@SloanTSmart 10 месяцев назад

I heard RFM. Great comic artist call out...

@Maryfs1 10 месяцев назад

2:29:13 yeah I couldn't hear anything.

@mouthymormonmetalhea 10 месяцев назад

At time stamp 30:02, now Joseph Smith is quoting my favorite scripture in Luke 18:10 to 14 where the pharasee goes up into the temple to pray and thinks of himself better than the publican, but Jesus says, that quote in d&c 101:42 as the moral lesson. In Luke 18 verse 14. But also: Luke 14:11 and also Mathew 23:12! I just did a quick bible hub Google search to come up with those verses, but Luke 18:10 to 14 is my favorite and I know it well! It would not be difficult for Joseph Smith to rip this off.

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

Did you all know that Baseball is in the book of Mormon? .....................................................................it talks about Adam on the Diamond ;)

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

f) On the BOM IS COMPLEX SLIDE: College-level vocabulary words (not in the Bible): dozens. It might shock Hale to know that college-level words today are not the same as college-level words from Smiths day. According to the Dept of Education, in a report on The Reading Ability of College Freshmen, today's Frosh reads above the 5th-grade level but below the 12th-grade level. In other words- they're still reading at a high school level at best. According to an article by the American Battlefields Trust, fifth-grade students in the 1800s were reading material at a level that today is considered college level. Doesn't say much for our college-age students, does it? A number of Mormons, including Hale, will point to the Flesch-Kincaid score of the Book of Mormon as proof of its divine origin. After all, how could an uneducated farmboy could have written such a book? Had he written it down with his own hand that would have been one thing. But remember that he had scribes who were more educated than he. And, he had a non-Mormon typesetter who corrected spelling, grammar, and punctuation as necessary. So no, it didn't take divine intervention to write the BoM. It did, however, take a very good ability to spin a story, something Smith had been noted for since his boyhood days.

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

g) On the BOM IS COMPLEX SLIDE: Invented nouns: 170. Unlike the Bible, which reports people by name- many of whom we get verified via archeology, the BoM resorts to inventing people. In that light, it's no different from unique words (see "e") in other writings that became popular names later. Olivia is from Twelfth Night, Wendy (as a stand-alone name) from Peter Pan (not short for Gwendolyn), Miranda from The Tempest, etc. And then there's Harry Potter. Albus Dumbledore? Rubeus Hagrid? Draco Mafoy? Turning to the world of creative writing isn't a very convincing argument for the authenticity and truthfulness of the BoM.

@Kurt843 10 месяцев назад

That is Jaguar fur Bill

@randyjordan5521 10 месяцев назад

It's good that this panel refutes Brian Hales's assertions with scholarship, but let's keep in mind that all of that really isn't necessary. Reason being, all it requires to prove that the BOM is a modern-day fraud is a single anachronism within it. And the BOM is riddled with such anachronisms from beginning to end. The venerable Ex-Mormon Richard Packham once illustrated this with an analogy: Let's say that someone produced an alleged diary of George Washington, claiming it to be authentic. Let's say that one entry read: "August 1, 1793. Took the steam train from Washington to Philadelphia." We would immediately know that the entire diary is a hoax, because there was no steam train from Washington to Philadelphia in 1793. We can conclude that the BOM is a hoax because of its mention of horses, chariots, smelted metal technology, and numerous other historical/archaeological anachronisms. In the early '80s, a German guy (and Hitler fanboy) produced what he alleged to be Hitler's diaries. Those were believed to be genuine at first, but were debunked as frauds within a couple of years. The case for the BOM's authenticity is similar. Alexander Campbell published his critique of the BOM in 1831, in which he detailed its poor literary style, its doctrinal errors, the unlikeliness of it being an authentic ancient work, etc. "The New York Inquirer" published a lengthy article on August 31, 1831, which detailed Joseph Smith's 1820s treasure-digging practice, and how he evolved that into his claims of angels and the Golden Bible. And Eber D. Howe published his "Mormonisn Unvailed" in 1834. So, Brian Hales' attempt to put lipstick on the BOM pig by mentioning its length, or chiasmus, or its many people and place names, or any other such issues, is refuted by the simple fact that the book contains items that didn't exist in ancient America.

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

WORDINESS AS A SIGN OF DIVINITY/correctness. (see comparatives chart of BoM and other literary books). It should be mentioned that having excessively long sentences is not a sign of divine inspiration nor is it a trademark of truthfulness. In the 1970s a writer from Birmingham, England named Jonathan Coe, published "The Rotters' Club". One of the interesting features of the book is a 13, 955-word sentence in English. Inspired by God? [note- Smith was the only author to dictate a book- something Muhammad also did. Dictation almost always involves longer sentences. People don't talk in sentences and paragraphs. We talk loosely, using slang, conjunction, etc.]

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

I know a work of dictation to compare it to: THE QU'RAN. Now, whether or not Smith ever read it is doubtful. However, its a shared trait between the two dictated works AND both are, well, wordy little books!

@colinfountain59 10 месяцев назад

I haven't heard too many people mention the ridiculous age of Jacob the brother of Nephi. How do they explain it?

@kacyegan2550 10 месяцев назад

😂Cheetah Skin 👀 Holy 💩!

@dsoule4902 9 месяцев назад

Hahaha "intertextuality = borrowing....". 😘

@ryanhollist3950 10 месяцев назад

As I hear more and more about JS and the way he worked in writing, speaking, and reading, I am wondering if he may have been neurodivergent in some way.

@ringo3697 10 месяцев назад

Delusional narcisissistic sex addict explains it pretty well

@agentcallisto 10 месяцев назад

That’s an interesting thought. Wish we knew the truth of it all!

@TEAM__POSEID0N 10 месяцев назад

TBH, when viewed objectively, I don't think Joseph Smith's productions are particularly amazing at all. He was a kid who grew up in an intensely religious environment, so religious themes and perspectives were constantly on his mind. The KJV Bible was in his house. It was being read and quoted from virtually everywhere he went. He was known to be a kid who liked to make up stories to manipulate and entertain people. He was known to be an exhorter (like a warm-up preacher) for a local church. By the time he decided to get out of the buried treasure finding business and into the ancient golden plates translation business, he was already well entrenched in the religious story spinning groove, with extensive practice and experience under his belt. In some ways, I picture him as a kind of Sam Kinison character (minus the sense of humor). Sam Kinison grew up in a very religious environment, spent some time as an exhorter/preacher for a pentecostal (holy roller) type of congregation. And even after he outgrew that, he could still turn it back on for comedic effect anytime he wanted. As for the "miraculous" production of the Book of Mormon in a "short time". I doubt that narrative is really true. Joe wanted to make money from the book and so did his partners in the project (the Whitmer Family, the Smith Family and Martin Harris). So of course, they hyped up the miraculous nature of the book. For example, It's pretty obvious that someone just copied verbatim whole sections of Isaiah from the KJV Bible, while looking at the Bible. That doesn't help sell the Book of Mormon, so they just didn't talk about it. There were no disinterested "witnesses" involved at all.

@ringo3697 10 месяцев назад

@@agentcallisto enuf is known

@whatsup3270 10 месяцев назад

The best part of this video was showing plagiarism from ~1800 in the Book of Mormon which was said to be in the ground by the year 400. I would like to suggest that the standard 2 1/2 hour requirement(?) on all Mormon issues be reduced, this video can certainly cover all this in 45 minutes with time to spare.

@mysticmagichippychild6239 10 месяцев назад

Just a thought. The name Nephi is the first part of the name - Nephilim

@patricianoel7782 10 месяцев назад

See Genesis 6

@smaug3045 10 месяцев назад

Yes, God is English.

@lcwalker2920 10 месяцев назад

On the BOM IS COMPLEX SLIDE: e) Unique Words. According to Brian Hale (Book of Mormon Defense), there are 5, 903 unique words in the BoM. Exactly how that makes for a holy book is an important question because the answer is: IT DOES NOT. The Codex Seraphinianus is written in a language nobody can understand and even comes with illustrations. It was handwritten and took over two years to complete. Divinely inspired? There is the Book of Soyga containing over 40,000 letters arranged in 36 tables that seem to be some kind of code. Anguish Languish was written by Howard L Chace and though nursery sounding, he practically created another language using English words. Probably the writer most well known for creating new words within a story is that famous man of God, that great wordsmith and theologian; that divinely inspired and no doubt gifted author: DR SEUSS. A little-known factoid: Dr. Seuss was the first person to use the word NERD. It first appeared in hi 1950 classic "If I Ran the Zoo". And when you're talking about created words, people, animals, and storylines, you're definitely talking about the BoM. Dr. Suess and William Shakespear vie in the competition for made-up words with the latter credited with over 1700 introduced words still used today. Were their works likewise God-inspired? Should we use their works as a Holy Guide?

@Pay-It_Forward 3 месяца назад

if females naturally want to be with the richest most power male & Brigham Young had 56 wives, how many wives does Elohim have???

@schrecksekunde2118 9 месяцев назад

Zub zool eh isn't Egyptian ?! my friend Zipzi Iota vek says it very much is my friend! you most likely aren't trained in reformed Egyptian ! 😂

@schrecksekunde2118 9 месяцев назад

wait BOTH cultures exterminated each other on the same hill ? omfg hahaha that's brilliant 😂 "2 million people walk up that hill - and no one will come down!" 😅 one would expect at least a handful of people being sick 😄

@DeanneSanchez 5 дней назад

Lol I don’t think God will keep people out of heaven because of a new names How ridiculous . I think It would be somewhere in the Bible if it were true , oh my gosh

@msurkan1 10 месяцев назад

I don't see the problem. If the book of Mormon is inspired of God, then it makes sense that things Joseph may have read from other sources would sometimes match with his inspiration to wind up in the BOM text. If Joseph was already familiar with the new testament text for a concept and message he was feeling inspired about, it only makes sense he would then include very similar text to the Bible. And who's to say that the forgeries in the Bible weren't themselves the result of inspiration God gave later translators even if those sections weren't in the original text. If you view that the translation process (in the Bible as well as BoM) are primarily an act of godly inspiration, then exactitude, wording, and everything else don't matter. Of course, this inspired view also means you can't rely on any scholarship to validate holy scripture. The only way to knowledge of the truth of the text is itself holy inspiration. If you feel good about the text, then you have all the proof you need.

@TEAM__POSEID0N 10 месяцев назад

The problem is that the religious/doctrinal content of the Book of Mormon is completely redundant with religious/doctrinal content that existed in the environment that Joseph Smith grew up in. He literally added nothing of importance. The best that can be said for it is that the BoM in some instances supported one side of a religious argument against another, as in the case of coming down on the side of saying that infant baptism was not necessary. What's missing in the Book of Mormon is basically all of the doctrines, practices and policies that have become the defining and distinguishing characteristics of Mormonism (particularly as implemented by the main church that is headquartered in SLC and currently headed up by Russell M. Nelson). There are no references to the Mormon temple ordinances and rituals. There is nothing like the Word of Wisdom ban on tobacco, tea and coffee. There is nothing about baptism for the dead. The offices of the Melchizedek and Aaronic priesthood are not set out in the Book of Mormon. Mostly, it's just a bunch of childish miracle stories that have no real relevance to anything in real life. Nephi hearing voices in his head decides to slice off Laban's head in order to steal the brass plates and that gives rise to the quote that Mormons love: "I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them." And this is where infamous people like the Lafferty brothers got their inspiration. The rest of the Book of Mormon content is just plagiarized and reworked in clumsy ways from existing religious sermons and texts, including the Bible. For example, the "Daughter of Jared" story is obviously just a plagiarism of the "Daughter of Herod" story. They even rhyme. Just the beheaded characters are different.

@Jjj53214 10 месяцев назад

You gave very little attention to the theological content within the book? Why? That is the most important part. Instead you focused on less important issues like word count, names, locations, background information.

@jamesrexsannatracy8318 8 месяцев назад

According to his own mother Joseph’s myth was keeping the family entertained with fantastical tales and far fetched adventures. And of course his gift of gab helped him score with ladies, and young girls, not to mention it was his cash cow. His efforts to sale the book were unsuccessful, his satanic tendencies and his lack of understanding kept him from churches because they didn’t want this young devilish man in their church. Studying his life it seemed he craved and desired the limelight, he was the Jim jones of the day,only his kool aid I still poisonous and being consumed daily

@DeanneSanchez 5 дней назад

I love you guys lol Yes Bill he has shifty eyes Great job guys Keep making us laugh We need that in todays world with all the ridiculous and absurd things going on . 🤎🤎🤎